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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by stjames on March 21, 2003, at 16:41:44
http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i21/21b02001.htm
1. The discoverer pitches the claim directly to the media
2. The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to suppress his or her work.
3. The scientific effect involved is always at the very limit of detection.
4. Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal.
5. The discoverer says a belief is credible because it has endured for centuries.
6. The discoverer has worked in isolation.
7. The discoverer must propose new laws of nature to explain an observation.So much for True Hope, Magnets, and ect
Posted by Jack Smith on March 21, 2003, at 17:20:17
In reply to The Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science, posted by stjames on March 21, 2003, at 16:41:44
>
> So much for True Hope, Magnets, and ect
>
>What do you mean by the above?
I found that article very good but I note that its description of the Daubert case and its implications is not really correct. Daubert, in some sense, opened the door to MORE junk science. But that is a debate for us lawyers. . . .
Posted by Bob on March 21, 2003, at 19:04:21
In reply to The Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science, posted by stjames on March 21, 2003, at 16:41:44
You seem to be quite convinced that ECT is sham science, even going so far as to group it with magnets and True Hope (whatever that is). Which of the criteria are you claiming it meets?
Posted by stjames on March 21, 2003, at 20:44:12
In reply to Re: The Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science » stjames, posted by Bob on March 21, 2003, at 19:04:21
> You seem to be quite convinced that ECT is sham science, even going so far as to group it with magnets and True Hope
I'm confused, I did not say anything about ECT.
Magnet thearpy and True Hope are not in the same
class as ECT. ECT is useful in some.
Posted by Krissy P on March 21, 2003, at 23:03:38
In reply to The Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science, posted by stjames on March 21, 2003, at 16:41:44
So much for True Hope, Magnets, and ect
What do you mean by this????
> http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i21/21b02001.htm
>
> 1. The discoverer pitches the claim directly to the media
> 2. The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to suppress his or her work.
> 3. The scientific effect involved is always at the very limit of detection.
> 4. Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal.
> 5. The discoverer says a belief is credible because it has endured for centuries.
> 6. The discoverer has worked in isolation.
> 7. The discoverer must propose new laws of nature to explain an observation.
>
> So much for True Hope, Magnets, and ect
>
>
Posted by Krissy P on March 21, 2003, at 23:05:07
In reply to Re: The Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science » stjames, posted by Bob on March 21, 2003, at 19:04:21
I did ECT, as I have said a few times here:
1) It helped for me
2) True Hope??? Yeah I have it
and 3) Could you elaborate?--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You seem to be quite convinced that ECT is sham science, even going so far as to group it with magnets and True Hope (whatever that is). Which of the criteria are you claiming it meets?
Posted by Krissy P on March 21, 2003, at 23:07:33
In reply to Re: The Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science, posted by stjames on March 21, 2003, at 20:44:12
okay...... so then what did you mean by So much for True Hope, Magnets, (and ect) ?
What do you mean by True Hope and Magnet therapy not being the same? They are definately NOT in the same class-you're right lol
Kristen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> I'm confused, I did not say anything about ECT.
> Magnet thearpy and True Hope are not in the same
> class as ECT. ECT is useful in some.
Posted by wendy b. on March 21, 2003, at 23:15:29
In reply to The Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science, posted by stjames on March 21, 2003, at 16:41:44
...NOT electro-convulsive therapy. Although, I can see why on a meds/psych board, this might be confusing.
Please don't jump on James, here.
Just a little bitty typo... (goodness gracious)!Correctively yours,
W.
Posted by Krissy P on March 21, 2003, at 23:18:57
In reply to Re: he meant ETC, as in *etcetera*, posted by wendy b. on March 21, 2003, at 23:15:29
LMAOROTF Ok I get it absolutely we could see how it would mean ETC-and FYI -I wasn't jumping on james -just wanted to know what he meant
goodness gracious lol
Thanks for the clarification lol--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...NOT electro-convulsive therapy. Although, I can see why on a meds/psych board, this might be confusing.
>
> Please don't jump on James, here.
> Just a little bitty typo... (goodness gracious)!
>
> Correctively yours,
>
> W.
Posted by Cam W. on March 22, 2003, at 3:22:57
In reply to The Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science, posted by stjames on March 21, 2003, at 16:41:44
>
> So much for True Hope.....
>
>James .... Dude .... you talkin' 'bout these there guys?:
http://www.healthwatcher.net/Quackerywatch/Synergy/
Ever since this "drug" and it is a drug. No one fool themselves, this tablet is not intended to be a nutriceutical (ie. not for the "maintenance" of health) but to br used to "cure" ..... or at least ....
.... maybe ..... .. .... prevent relapses ..... ..... of schizbipmandepadhdacnehemmorhoids [last word to be mumbled]. The company no longer states .... in public, at least .... that the pig vitamin is a cure. IThis compound is banned in Canada until the company can prove that their product does what they say it does. This means obtaining a DIN from Health Canada so that the company is allowed to say that it's product "cures" something. Health Canada requires phase trials that can sometimes take years to conduct and evaluate. Since this product is made of things (well, most of the things) that are commonly found in a Centrum (even in your Centrum Silver, Greg), the time to DIN can be significantly reduced. Even at half the normal time and expense, the proof of product efficacy still carries $100M+ price tag.
They also need to follow Canadian law by filing an application with Health Canada asking to be allowed to conduct a controlled clinical trial "before" actually finishing the study. Remember that article in the J Clin Psych by these guys; they even had their paper critiqued ..... by one of the members of the research team who conducted the "clinical trial". It seems that the people who ran the study forgot to apply to Health Canada for permission to conduct said study ..... can you say, "oops!"
- Cam
.... maybe there is no hope for humanity .....
..... oh, well
Posted by stjames on March 24, 2003, at 1:56:21
In reply to Re: he meant ETC, as in *etcetera*, posted by wendy b. on March 21, 2003, at 23:15:29
ECT = Electro-Convulsive Thearpy
ect = etceteranote caps vs lowercase.
Posted by stjames on March 24, 2003, at 15:34:59
In reply to Re: The Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science » stjames, posted by Cam W. on March 22, 2003, at 3:22:57
http://www.healthwatcher.net/Quackerywatch/Synergy/synergy-lawsuit.html
Join the Class Action LawsuitHave you or anyone in your family taken nutritional supplements promoted by the Synergy Group of Canada, their sales associates, and others? You now have a chance to join a class action lawsuit.
The present concoction is called E.M. Power+. Over the last few years the Synergy Group of Canada, based in Alberta, Canada, have promoted a number of vitamin-mineral-herbal preparations through their Truehope.com website, and at meetings around the world. They have actively recruited individuals to follow a specific medical protocol, claiming that these have all been approved by either a university, or "researcher" at major universities in Canada and the United States. We believe that some of these were initially purchased from Melaleuca, in Utah, and then the final product, E.M. Power+ was designed by the Synergy Group of Canada and made by either Evince International or Cornerstone Nutritional Laboratories in Utah.
Complete details are provided through links below. If you think that you would like to participate in a class action lawsuit please read and complete the following form and we will forward those complaints to the law firms for them to determine if there is merit to your case.
Remember that E.M. Power+, the famous "pig pills", featured on DietFraud.com's web site has never been approved by the FDA, or Health Canada. Claims made for their effectiveness in treating serious mental health, and medical problems have not been evaluated by or approved by anyone. We believe that our government, our universities, and our own media have either been duped and manipulated, or have ignored complaints. For those of you who have been injured, or ignored, it's now your turn to get even.
If you can't e-mail your answers back to me, make as many copies as you want of this form, and return it to:
Terry Polevoy
Healthwatcher.net
EMCA
938 King St. West
Kitchener, Ontario
N2G 1G4
Fax your answers to (519) 725-4953E-mail your answers to: EMPower
EMPower - Synergy Group of Canada Evidence
The Conceptual HypeThe consortium generally known as the Synergy Group of Canada and Synergy American Truehope Center were launched a few years ago by two Southern Alberta businessmen. They promoted a number of products, all of which were manufactured in the U.S. Originally these were imported from Melaleuca Inc. and at least 2 other companies. They claimed that these capsules could help treat serious mental health problems, such as schizophrenia and bi-polar depression, as well as fibromyalgia.
Based on ridiculous theories that had absolutely no scientific support, they linked up with a short list of basic science researchers, and hit paydirt with a psychologist who works for the pediatric department at the University of Calgary, up here in Canada. Then they convinced a psychiatrist in Salt Lake City, Utah to go along with the research.
Then they were ready to roll. Based on the flimsiest data, they made presentations at various press conferences around the world, and claimed to have proof that their product could work. They even published an article in an obscure medical journal.Through some stroke of luck, and more than a little bit of chutzpah, the Synergy/Truehope folks convinced the press that all of this was true. The media swallowed this cockamamy story and they were off around the globe calling press conferences, and asking for research moneys from public and private corporations.
Through a network of associates, they held meetings at hospitals, and public facilities across North America. Truehope representatives or principles asserted that their multi-vitamin-mineral & herbal/amino acid product would help patients by acting as a replacement for psychiatric medications. Some of these people had serious mental illnesses such as schizophrenia and bi-polar depression. It is conceptually based on an observation by one of the "inventors" that a multi-vitamin, mineral, herbal product might have a positive effect on tail-biting syndrome in pigs. This had never been verified by anyone else in the agri-feed business, or veterinary medicine.Extending this "concept", Synergy/Truehope asserted that thir miracle treatment might have a positive effect on humans, including children and adults. There is no valid reproducible scientific evidence for this. There is no proof that disorders Truehope purports to treat or cure are caused by single or multiple vitamin, mineral, or herbal deficiencies; no proof that customers & study subjects have single or multiple vitamin, mineral, or herbal deficiencies. And we really question whether the open label study generated any proof of safety or efficacy. In my opinion, it was all made up on the spot. And almost no one questioned it.
The Hope for Recovery
Those of you who have been sold a bill of goods, who have spent hundreds, perhaps thousands of dollars on this crazy scheme now have a chance to provide input to our attorneys in a class action lawsuit.
Some people have been injured, or have been hospitalized because they have allegedly been told by lay associates that it would be o.k. to come off their psychiatric medications. Others have been misled into thinking they were participating in clinical research, when in fact they were not. Such deceptive uses of altruistic impulses may have a legal remedy. If you fit into that category, you have the right to join the lawsuit as well.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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