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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 4, 2003, at 10:11:57
Was pretty much at the end of my rope last week with the depression... I figured I'd try anything to get out of it, and remembered some leftover Provigil from a previous prescription. Now, I had only taken 300mg in the past, but I was curious as to the effects of higher doses. So after researching a bit and discovering how low its toxicity is, I took ten 100mg tablets. The effect was astonishing and certainly unexpected, but was certainly anything *but* a "high". If anything, it was simply return to normalcy... the social anxiety just *completely* melted away(?!), the depression-fog lifted, and I was left with nothing but greater energy and much more motivated. No side effects either. It was like finding the Holy Grail, lol.
I had also been taking Klonopin 4mg and BuSpar 60mg, but as usual, the Klonopin has waned in its effect quite a bit... I often had to switch between benzodiazepines and short-acting barbiturates. But anyway, the next day I tried the Provigil without Klonopin or BuSpar, and was soooo happy to find it achieved the same effect. I was seriously plotting suicide not long ago, but since taking this for a few days I feel I've regained the person I was at 8 years old (except minus the ADHD and hopefully a bit more intelligent, lol). In short, if it worked for me, it's got to work for some others as well... worth a shot! (well, guess a prerequisite would *definitely* have to be insurance in this case, unless there's a fella named Bill Gates you call 'daddy')
Posted by fachad on March 4, 2003, at 11:08:22
In reply to High-dose Provigil a miracle, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 4, 2003, at 10:11:57
>...It was like finding the Holy Grail, lol.
Really, I think that sometimes the diligent seeking of more trials and more unique coctails becomes a symbolic grail quest.
>...So after researching a bit and discovering how low its toxicity is, I took ten 100mg tablets.
I've seen references to studies with 1,000mg day, but I think they set the recommended high dose based on the fact that at doses higher than 400mg/day, Provigil induces it's own metabolism.
>...worth a shot! (well, guess a prerequisite would *definitely* have to be insurance in this case, unless there's a fella named Bill Gates you call 'daddy')
Yep, the legends about the Grail also talk of the "Pearl of Great Price", which is what 1,000mg/day Provigil would be. That would be about $40 per day, or $1,200 per month!
And you better be Gates Jr., because most health insurance will not cover brand name meds at dosages above the PDR monograph prescribing limit. Just another little trick they use to keep their costs down.
Posted by Jack Smith on March 4, 2003, at 12:06:16
In reply to High-dose Provigil a miracle, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 4, 2003, at 10:11:57
Anyone know?
The stock answer that the drug companies just want to make money does not make any sense to me. My basic understanding of economics would lead me to believe that a price closer to that of ssri's would cause more people to take it (and make ins. companies more willing to prescribe it) which would make the company more money.
Is it just really expensive to manufacture? Someone has to know a reason.
JACK
Posted by zeliva on March 4, 2003, at 15:37:24
In reply to High-dose Provigil a miracle, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 4, 2003, at 10:11:57
May I ask what time are you taking the Provigil? My pdoc just gave me some samples I think 200mg. I am scared that if I take it too late that I will have insomnia. I take 25mg Seroquel for sleep already. I really want want to try it but I am scared. I don't know why. Thanks.
zeliva
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 4, 2003, at 18:02:11
In reply to Re: High-dose Provigil a miracle, posted by zeliva on March 4, 2003, at 15:37:24
I take it first thing in the morning, though I'm not really sure if the time matters in most cases. All I know is that Provigil is said not to interfere with sleep, and it certainly hasn't for me. If you're a bit nervous about taking it, maybe you could try a test dose with half a tablet? Really, I'd say there's no reason to worry yourself; I've spoken with many people who've taken this drug, and whether or not they ended up finding it useful, I personally have yet to hear any negative stories about it.
Posted by Geezer on March 4, 2003, at 21:48:35
In reply to Re: High-dose Provigil a miracle » zeliva, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 4, 2003, at 18:02:11
> I take it first thing in the morning, though I'm not really sure if the time matters in most cases. All I know is that Provigil is said not to interfere with sleep, and it certainly hasn't for me. If you're a bit nervous about taking it, maybe you could try a test dose with half a tablet? Really, I'd say there's no reason to worry yourself; I've spoken with many people who've taken this drug, and whether or not they ended up finding it useful, I personally have yet to hear any negative stories about it.
I agree it is a good med. Sadly, for me, a morning dose of 300mg only lasts 4 hours then I crash and burn (have to take 1mg Klonopin to feel human again). An additional PM dose seems to do no good. My DX is in question - Unipolar or Bipolar II (big guessing game you know). I will have to say Provigil is the only thing that will lift the anergic depression......any ideas on how to get more than 4 hours out of it?
Posted by Ritch on March 5, 2003, at 9:46:36
In reply to Why is Provigil so expensive?, posted by Jack Smith on March 4, 2003, at 12:06:16
> Anyone know?
>
> The stock answer that the drug companies just want to make money does not make any sense to me. My basic understanding of economics would lead me to believe that a price closer to that of ssri's would cause more people to take it (and make ins. companies more willing to prescribe it) which would make the company more money.
>
> Is it just really expensive to manufacture? Someone has to know a reason.
>
> JACKJack, that is a very good question. My bet is that it *isn't* that expensive to manufacture and the reason they price it so high is because the indication is rather narrow (narcolepsy). No obesity, ADHD, depression indications. That restricts the number of scripts that can be written by quite a bit (despite off-label use). It is like a new flat-panel HDTV with no cable HDTV to use with it (restricted demand). OH, there's another thing-I heard the military is buying quite a bit of the stuff-with our tax money.
Posted by Jack Smith on March 5, 2003, at 13:27:57
In reply to Re: Why is Provigil so expensive? » Jack Smith, posted by Ritch on March 5, 2003, at 9:46:36
Some good thoughts Ritch. Even with its narrow indication, I still tend to think that the company would make more money with a lower price. Provigil is VERY expensive to the point that most insurance companies require some sort of prior authorization just to prescribe it--that can't be good for business. Again basic economics just seems to say that a lower price would lead to more profits, even though its a monopoly.
The one thing you say that does point to a "logical" answer is that the government is buying it in large quantities, then I would totally believe the drug company is pricing it up because they know the government will just about spend anything in the name of "national security." Where did you hear this, I'd be interested to know.
Also, anyone know when the patent expires??
JACK
> Jack, that is a very good question. My bet is that it *isn't* that expensive to manufacture and the reason they price it so high is because the indication is rather narrow (narcolepsy). No obesity, ADHD, depression indications. That restricts the number of scripts that can be written by quite a bit (despite off-label use). It is like a new flat-panel HDTV with no cable HDTV to use with it (restricted demand). OH, there's another thing-I heard the military is buying quite a bit of the stuff-with our tax money.
Posted by wendy b. on March 5, 2003, at 14:51:50
In reply to Re: High-dose Provigil a miracle, posted by zeliva on March 4, 2003, at 15:37:24
> May I ask what time are you taking the Provigil? My pdoc just gave me some samples I think 200mg. I am scared that if I take it too late that I will have insomnia. I take 25mg Seroquel for sleep already. I really want want to try it but I am scared. I don't know why. Thanks.
>
> zeliva
Dear Zeliva,The great thing about Provigil is that it specifically does not interfere with sleep, that is, when you want to put your head down (even in the daytime), you >can< fall asleep. They call it a 'wakefulness agent.' Cute, huh? Fighter pilots on large doses, taking it for days, who then need to sleep when the mission is over, can fall asleep without any problem. I think this drug is a small miracle. It sure changed my apathy, hopelessness, and ADD symptoms around, and very quickly, too. So don't be afraid, Zeliva! Provigil will soon be one of your best med-friends.
If I were you, I would snap or cut that 200 mg tab in half, and start with only 100mg, first thing in the morning. After a month, you can try the 200 mg. That's just me, though. I actually went more slowly, and did 150 in between the 100 & the 200.
There is lots of info on the web about Provigil, so Jack Smith, just plug 'military' or 'armed forces' and 'provigil' into google, and you'll turn up some interesting articles.
best,
Wendy
Posted by Ritch on March 5, 2003, at 22:01:22
In reply to Re: Why is Provigil so expensive? » Ritch, posted by Jack Smith on March 5, 2003, at 13:27:57
Jack, I read that here (the military using it). There was a post about the Canadian families that were suing pilots related to the "friendly fire" incident in Afghanistan. Pilots routinely use dexedrine (willingly-but they are encouraged to use it), to help stay awake and alert on long missions. They dropped the bombs by mistake and killed Allied soldiers. The pilots lawyers were claiming that the dexedrine messed up their judgement and the military leadership was responsible for the deaths (not the pilots) for encouraging dexedrine usage (and providing the dexedrine). The Provigil thing I read said they found it longer lasting (from what I can remember).--Mitch
> Some good thoughts Ritch. Even with its narrow indication, I still tend to think that the company would make more money with a lower price. Provigil is VERY expensive to the point that most insurance companies require some sort of prior authorization just to prescribe it--that can't be good for business. Again basic economics just seems to say that a lower price would lead to more profits, even though its a monopoly.
>
> The one thing you say that does point to a "logical" answer is that the government is buying it in large quantities, then I would totally believe the drug company is pricing it up because they know the government will just about spend anything in the name of "national security." Where did you hear this, I'd be interested to know.
>
> Also, anyone know when the patent expires??
>
> JACK
>
> > Jack, that is a very good question. My bet is that it *isn't* that expensive to manufacture and the reason they price it so high is because the indication is rather narrow (narcolepsy). No obesity, ADHD, depression indications. That restricts the number of scripts that can be written by quite a bit (despite off-label use). It is like a new flat-panel HDTV with no cable HDTV to use with it (restricted demand). OH, there's another thing-I heard the military is buying quite a bit of the stuff-with our tax money.
>
>
Posted by kara lynne on March 6, 2003, at 0:17:48
In reply to Re: High-dose Provigil a miracle » zeliva, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 4, 2003, at 18:02:11
I thought I heard something once about Provigil and liver damage. Just would want you to be careful at 1,000gms. a pop.
Posted by SLS on March 6, 2003, at 7:10:28
In reply to Re: High-dose Provigil a miracle, posted by kara lynne on March 6, 2003, at 0:17:48
> I thought I heard something once about Provigil and liver damage. Just would want you to be careful at 1,000gms. a pop.
Hi.You probably encountered something referring to adrafinil (Olmifon), the parent compound of modafinil (Provigil). When taking adrafinil, it is suggested to take blood tests every now and then to screen for liver anomalies. Once in the body, adrafinil is rapidly and extensively metabolized into modafinil. Modafinil seems to be without the risk of producing liver damage.
Posted by Celadon on December 7, 2010, at 1:12:21
In reply to Re: High-dose Provigil a miracle, posted by SLS on March 6, 2003, at 7:10:28
First of all, Provigil is not a "psycho-babble" medication. It is a very effective medication for the condition I have which is extreme fatigue. I have Hepatitis C with cirrhosis and fatigue is one of the side effects. It combats the fatigue and also helps with the depression I feel cause I am so tired all the time. It is expensive now because the manufacturer is coming out with a new product called Nuvigil. They have come out with Nuvigil because the patent on Provigil is about to run out and they need to have something that gives them as much income as Provigil has given them; not because Nuvigil is a better drug. The manufacturer of Provigil has proven themselves to value money over people. Of course, in a capitalist economy this is par for the course.
Posted by medtrier on December 10, 2010, at 19:52:39
In reply to Re: Provigil so expensive, posted by Celadon on December 7, 2010, at 1:12:21
Back before provigil, they had something that is called (generic) andrafanil.
As I recall, it's patent expired, and due to registration issues, it's not available in the USA.
But BioGenesis Anti-aging of South Africa at least used to sell it. I don't know if they still do. They seem like a reputable site. Since andrafanil is not registered for sale in the USA, it's not regulated either, and perfectly legal to buy without a prescription. A wonderful loophole. Andrafanil is a lot cheaper than Nuvigil.
And don't confuse andrafanil with anafranil, which is a tricyclic for anxiety/depression/OCD.
Posted by jjjaspar on December 12, 2010, at 10:17:27
In reply to High-dose Provigil a miracle, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 4, 2003, at 10:11:57
Yeah, Points out how neurological and varied these illnesses are that all get lumped unto the same label. Our family member switched from Provigil to the more pure form - Nuvigil taken just once per day. Still sometimes takes a tiny bit of Provigil on top of that.
Have you had a sleep study? Took a long time before that was suggested, so insurance pays for it. Sleep disorders can be (mis)diagnosed as bipolar, anxiety disorder and schizophrenia, even childhood-onset types.
Since what is essentially a sleep disorder or narcolepsy medication was such a magic bullet for you, three places you might want to look into - Talk About sleep- http://www.TalkAboutSleep.com , It's Not Mental - http://www.ItsNotMental.com , and this about misdiagnoses - mental symptoms from other medical causes - Investigating Mental Illness - http://InvestigatingMentalIllness.blogspot.com/
> Was pretty much at the end of my rope last week with the depression... I figured I'd try anything to get out of it, and remembered some leftover Provigil from a previous prescription. Now, I had only taken 300mg in the past, but I was curious as to the effects of higher doses. So after researching a bit and discovering how low its toxicity is, I took ten 100mg tablets. The effect was astonishing and certainly unexpected, but was certainly anything *but* a "high". If anything, it was simply return to normalcy... the social anxiety just *completely* melted away(?!), the depression-fog lifted, and I was left with nothing but greater energy and much more motivated. No side effects either. It was like finding the Holy Grail, lol.
This is the end of the thread.
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