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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JohnV on February 26, 2003, at 13:01:21
I was wondering if anyone has been on a typical (older gen) antipsychotic for long-term, and would appreciate any information or experiences. Thanks. John V.
Posted by stjames on February 26, 2003, at 14:27:05
In reply to Anyone on typical antipsychotics?, posted by JohnV on February 26, 2003, at 13:01:21
My experience is they all cause TD or EPS
at far too high a rate to be a resonable treatment for all but the most ill psychotic persons.
Posted by JohnV on February 26, 2003, at 15:04:29
In reply to Re: Anyone on typical antipsychotics?, posted by stjames on February 26, 2003, at 14:27:05
> My experience is they all cause TD or EPS
> at far too high a rate to be a resonable >treatment for all but the most ill psychotic >persons.I honestly don't want to get into a warfare or argument about this, and I am open to debate no matter what the outcome. But, there are also proven very dangerous side effects (as in sudden death, diabetes, ketosis, etc..) with atypicals that have been greatly understated.(The finger seems to point at Zyprexa as the main culprit here..with Seroquel being more neutral. I am concerned because Zyprexa seems to be the Prozac of AP's with it's being prescribed for everything and almost anything. If it where safer, I'd see no problem.) I have seen a number of people suffer quite horridly from various diabetic effects, even if they are properly treated, and I guess that is where my concern is. Diabetes is a deadly serious disease.
My pdoc directed me to this information when it first came out. He is not against prescribing these meds, but echoed a number of calls for research that compares much lower doses of some typical antipsychotics with atypicals. (Most research with typicals use very high doses.) Again, I don't want to argue...really..but these are important factors we should weigh and know about as consumers.
Here are a number of research pieces I pulled from a few sites:
ALLIANCE FOR HUMAN RESEARCH PROTECTION (AHRP)
http://www.researchprotection.orgAntipsychotics and Diabetes
Contact: Vera Hassner Sharav
212-595-8974
e-mail: veracare@rcn.com
FYISince they arrived on the market in the 1990s, the so-called 'atypicial' antipsychotic drugs have been wrapped in controversy and promotional hype by drug companies and their paid professional spin masters who made bald claims about their "favorable side effect profile" referring to them as "breakthrough" "miracle" drugs that "balance the chemistry" in the brain.
In his book, Mad in America, Robert Whitaker relied on data available to the FDA but not made known to most doctors who prescribe these drugs or to patients and families. In clinical trials prior to FDA approval: "One in every 145 patients who entered the trials --for risperidone, olanzapine, quetiapine, and a fourth atypical called sertindole--died, and yet those deaths were never mentioned in the scientific literature." (p. 269)
It can be said, therefore, that contrary to what psychiatrists have been telling patients and their families, the drugs prescribed for schizophrenia have severe undesirable side effects. For some individuals, the side effects are fatal.
On July 1, 2002, Duke University issued a Press Release about the most recent finding that links the new anti-psychotics to early onset diabetes. The team of researchers--Elizabeth A. Koller, M.D. from the FDA, and Murali Doraiswamy, M.D. from Duke-- analyzed FDA's adverse drug report database, MedWatch (which receives 10% of adverse drug reports). They identified 289 cases of diabetes in patients who had been prescribed olanzapine (a.k.a. Zyprexa), Eli Lilly's most profitable drug.
The researchers reported: "Of the 289 cases of diabetes linked to the use of olanzapine, 225 were newly diagnosed cases. One hundred patients developed ketosis (a serious complication of diabetes), and 22 people developed pancreatitis, or inflammation of the pancreas, which is a life-threatening condition. There were 23 deaths, including that of a 15-year-old adolescent who died of necrotizing pancreatitis, a condition where the pancreas breaks down and dies. Most cases (71 percent) occurred within six months of starting the drug and many cases were associated with moderate weight gain."
The evidence from pre-marketing trials was also alarming: Whitaker wrote: "Of the 2,500 patients in the trials who received olanzapine, twenty died. Twelve killed themselves...Twenty-two percent [ ] suffered a 'serious' adverse event, compared to 18 percent of the haloperidol patients. Two-thirds of the olanzapine patients didn't successfully complete the trials...."(p. 281)
According to the Duke researchers, many cases of diabetes have also been reported with other antipsychotic drugs. In 1994, a Duke team first reported a Diabetes link to the first 'atypical' antipsychotic drug, clozapine: last year, 384 reports of diabetes last year were associated with clozapine.
Whereas the British Medical Control Agency and the Japanese Health & Welfare Ministry have issued warnings about the risk of diabetes for patients prescribed Zyprexa, FDA has remained silent.
It is astounding to AHRP that the FDA has approved a clinical trial that exposes teenagers-- who are not even diagnosed with schizophrenia-- to a drug that puts them at risk of diabetes. The trial is being conducted at Yale University. [See, AHRP complaint filed with the federal Office of Human Research Protection at: http://www.researchprotection.org/Initiatives/YaleComplaint.html
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-07/dumc-rwa062802.php
Antipsychotic Drug Might Be Linked to Diabetes
HealthNewsDigest.com - July 01, 2002
RESEARCHERS WARN ANTIPSYCHOTIC DRUG MIGHT BE LINKED TO DIABETES
DURHAM, N.C. - Research from Duke University Medical Center suggests there might be a link between at least one drug used to treat schizophrenia and the onset of diabetes, a disease widely recognized as one of the leading causes of death and disability in the U.S.The drug, olanzapine (trade name Zyprexa), belongs to a relatively new family of medications called atypical antipsychotics, which are used to treat schizophrenia, paranoia and manic-depressive disorders. Other drugs in this class include clozapine, risperidone, quetiapine and ziprasidone.The researchers found metabolic abnormalities ranging from mild blood sugar problems to diabetic ketoacidosis and coma in patients who had been prescribed olanzapine, most of whom were otherwise not known to be diabetic.
Diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) is a serious condition in which a person experiences an extreme rise in blood glucose level coupled with a severe lack of insulin, which results in symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, stomach pain and rapid breathing. Untreated, DKA can lead to coma and even death.
"While our report does not prove a causal relationship between the drug and diabetes, doctors should be aware of such potentially adverse effects," said P. Murali Doraiswamy, M.D., a psychiatrist at Duke and co-author of the study. "We've found cases where patients had some very serious problems associated with olanzapine, and at least 23 of them died."
The findings appear in the July 2, 2002 issue of Pharmacotherapy. The research was self-supported by the authors. Doraiswamy and Elizabeth A. Koller, M.D., lead author of the study and a medical officer at the FDA, queried the FDA MedWatch Drug Surveillance System, MEDLINE (a biomedical database) and selected abstracts from national psychiatry meetings over a period of eight years and identified 289 cases of diabetes in patients who had been given olanzapine. Of the 289 cases of diabetes linked to the use of olanzapine, 225 were newly diagnosed cases.
One hundred patients developed ketosis (a serious complication of diabetes), and 22 people developed pancreatitis, or inflammation of the pancreas, which is a life-threatening condition. There were 23 deaths, including that of a 15-year-old adolescent who died of necrotizing pancreatitis, a condition where the pancreas breaks down and dies. Most cases (71 percent) occurred within six months of starting the drug and many cases were associated with moderate weight gain.
"The average age of adults showing signs of diabetes after taking olanzapine was about 10 years younger than what is generally seen in the community," said Doraiswamy. "The younger age at onset plus the number of serious complications and the improvements reported when the drug was stopped all suggest a link to the disease. However, until we know if there are risk differences among drugs in this class, it is important for physicians to watch all patients receiving this medication for signs of diabetes so that it can be detected quickly and managed."
The study merely suggests an association between the drug and diabetes, said Doraiswamy. Further studies are needed to offer more conclusive evidence of a direct causal relationship. If future studies confirm the findings, he said that perhaps the FDA should consider including a stronger warning label for these drugs.
"The numbers are still sketchy since many adverse reactions are not reported to the FDA and we don't have a good handle on how many people have actually received these drugs," he cautioned. "Atypical antipsychotics can be life saving medications, but we need to learn more about their long-term side-effects. I think this should be a high priority for investigation."
Doraiswamy was part of a team from Duke that first reported a link between the antipsychotic drug clozapine and the development of diabetes in a 1994 issue of the American Journal of Psychiatry.
Last year, Koller reported in the American Journal of Medicine that the FDA had received 384 reports of diabetes associated with the drug clozapine. According to the researchers, many cases of diabetes have also been reported with other antipsychotic drugs. Doraiswamy has previously received funding and consulting fees from all companies that currently manufacture antipsychotic medications, including Eli Lilly and Company, the manufacturer of Zyprexa.
(c) Health News Digest.com 2002 All Rights Reserved.
Warning About Antipsychotic Drug
DURHAM, NC -- July 1, 2002 -- Research from Duke University Medical Center suggests there might be a link between at least one drug used to treat schizophrenia and the onset of diabetes, a disease widely recognized as one of the leading causes of death and disability in the U.S.The drug, olanzapine (trade name Zyprexa), belongs to a relatively new family of medications called atypical antipsychotics, which are used to treat schizophrenia, paranoia and manic-depressive disorders. Other drugs in this class include clozapine, risperidone, quetiapine and ziprasidone.
The researchers found metabolic abnormalities ranging from mild blood sugar problems to diabetic ketoacidosis and coma in patients who had been prescribed olanzapine, most of whom were otherwise not known to be diabetic. Diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) is a serious condition in which a person experiences an extreme rise in blood glucose level coupled with a severe lack of insulin, which results in symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, stomach pain and rapid breathing. Untreated, DKA can lead to coma and even death.
"While our report does not prove a causal relationship between the drug and diabetes, doctors should be aware of such potentially adverse effects," said P. Murali Doraiswamy, M.D., a psychiatrist at Duke and co-author of the study. "We've found cases where patients had some very serious problems associated with olanzapine, and at least 23 of them died."
The findings appear in the July 2, 2002 issue of Pharmacotherapy. The research was self-supported by the authors.
Doraiswamy and Elizabeth A. Koller, M.D., lead author of the study and a medical officer at the FDA, queried the FDA MedWatch Drug Surveillance System, MEDLINE (a biomedical database) and selected abstracts from national psychiatry meetings over a period of eight years and identified 289 cases of diabetes in patients who had been given olanzapine. Of the 289 cases of diabetes linked to the use of olanzapine, 225 were newly diagnosed cases. One hundred patients developed ketosis (a serious complication of diabetes), and 22 people developed pancreatitis, or inflammation of the pancreas, which is a life-threatening condition. There were 23 deaths, including that of a 15-year-old adolescent who died of necrotizing pancreatitis, a condition where the pancreas breaks down and dies. Most cases (71 percent) occurred within six months of starting the drug and many cases were associated with moderate weight gain.
"The average age of adults showing signs of diabetes after taking olanzapine was about 10 years younger than what is generally seen in the community," said Doraiswamy. "The younger age at onset plus the number of serious complications and the improvements reported when the drug was stopped all suggest a link to the disease. However, until we know if there are risk differences among drugs in this class, it is important for physicians to watch all patients receiving this medication for signs of diabetes so that it can be detected quickly and managed."
The study merely suggests an association between the drug and diabetes, said Doraiswamy. Further studies are needed to offer more conclusive evidence of a direct causal relationship. If future studies confirm the findings, he said that perhaps the FDA should consider including a stronger warning label for these drugs.
"The numbers are still sketchy since many adverse reactions are not reported to the FDA and we don't have a good handle on how many people have actually received these drugs," he cautioned. "Atypical antipsychotics can be life saving medications, but we need to learn more about their long-term side-effects. I think this should be a high priority for investigation."
Doraiswamy was part of a team from Duke that first reported a link between the antipsychotic drug clozapine and the development of diabetes in a 1994 issue of the American Journal of Psychiatry. Last year, Koller reported in the American Journal of Medicine that the FDA had received 384 reports of diabetes associated with the drug clozapine. According to the researchers, many cases of diabetes have also been reported with other antipsychotic drugs.
###
Doraiswamy has previously received funding and consulting fees from all companies that currently manufacture antipsychotic medications, including Eli Lilly and Company, the manufacturer of Zyprexa.
SOURCE: Duke University Medical CenterWeb Address :
http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/EAC/8525697700573E1885256BE900554826?Open&type=DGNews
Atypical Neuroleptics Seen to Increase the Risk of Diabetes Mellitus Somewhat
Reuters Health Information 2002. (c) 2002 Reuters Ltd
IntroductionNEW YORK (Reuters Health) Apr 30 - Younger patients with schizophrenia are more likely to be diagnosed with diabetes if they are treated with an atypical neuroleptic drug as opposed to a conventional neuroleptic, data from a Veterans Health Administration study indicate. Dr. Michael J. Sernyak, of the VA Connecticut Healthcare System in West Haven, and associates identified more than 38,000 patients treated for schizophrenia in the Veterans Health Administration system for whom an antipsychotic drug was prescribed between June and September of 1999. Almost 60% were being treated with atypical agents, the investigators report in The American Journal of Psychiatry for April. In the group overall, there was no significant difference in the incidence of diabetes between those treated with clozapine, olanzapine, quetiapine, or risperidone and those receiving typical neuroleptics. Among patients younger than 60 years old, however, the rate of diagnosis of diabetes was significantly higher for those receiving atypical agents than for those receiving conventional antipsychotics. In the under-40 age group, 8.75% of those receiving atypical antipsychotics and 6.43% of those treated with typical agents were diagnosed with diabetes (p = 0.007), and for those between 50 and 59 years of age, the prevalence in the two groups was 22.73% versus 20.56% (p = 0.003). The VA research team suggests that the atypical drugs, rather than precipitating the onset of diabetes, hasten its onset among those at risk. In an interview with Reuters Health, Dr. Sernyak pointed out that the prevalence of diabetes is much higher among people with schizophrenia than in the general population. He suggests that patients be tested for fasting blood glucose levels twice a year, especially if they are being prescribed an atypical antipsychotic drug. On the other hand, he does not advocate going back to the conventional antipsychotics. Rather, physicians should discuss the risks with their patients. "Patients are willing to make incredible tradeoffs to stay free of psychosis," he emphasized. Am J Psychiatry 2002;159:561-566.
Posted by Thomas123 on February 26, 2003, at 15:14:52
In reply to Re: Anyone on typical antipsychotics?, posted by stjames on February 26, 2003, at 14:27:05
There is small minority of people with schizophrenia who refuse to switch to atypicals. These people are oftenimes given their illness overachievers.
These people conciously choose typicals over atypicals even when they can obtain atypicals.
Atypicals are oversold as revolutionary drugs. I think they are better but the improvement is modest from an efficacy standpoint. Still side-effects are less. There is assumption people on these drugs will fail to develop tardive dyskinesia. It is too soon to say however as people have been on the drugs (excepting Clozaril) only for a decade or so.
Clozaril and Seroquel might be good bets but the others are problematical.It might be a different ballgame with Abilify which is a weak dopamine agonist.
Posted by Jack Smith on February 26, 2003, at 15:39:49
In reply to atypical antipsychotics, diabetes, dangers, etc.. » stjames, posted by JohnV on February 26, 2003, at 15:04:29
I have to agree with the statement that zyprexa is like the prozac of atypicals, it is being prescribed for just about everything, even by GPs. Prozac is a pretty benign drug so it is not that big of a problem. Zyprexa, on the other hand, is not so benign. For many, it is an incredibly effective lifesaver but others are being given it for shocking reasons. There is a guy on the depressionforums website who was prescribed it for, get this, sleep difficulty. Not bipolar. Not schizophrenic. Just plain sleep difficulty. Wow.
Posted by Jaynee on February 26, 2003, at 15:42:30
In reply to Re: Anyone on typical antipsychotics?, posted by Thomas123 on February 26, 2003, at 15:14:52
Check out the thread I posted just above this one, that says "interesting article". It pertains to this very topic.
Posted by Jumpy on February 26, 2003, at 17:14:03
In reply to Zyprexa--overpresribed? YES, posted by Jack Smith on February 26, 2003, at 15:39:49
> I have to agree with the statement that zyprexa is like the prozac of atypicals, it is being prescribed for just about everything, even by GPs. Prozac is a pretty benign drug so it is not that big of a problem. Zyprexa, on the other hand, is not so benign. For many, it is an incredibly effective lifesaver but others are being given it for shocking reasons. There is a guy on the depressionforums website who was prescribed it for, get this, sleep difficulty. Not bipolar. Not schizophrenic. Just plain sleep difficulty. Wow.
I totally agree ... I know of three people who were on zyprexa who now have to deal with diabetes. With the risks of EPS/TD and diabetes/metabolic syndrome, zyprexa seem to definately be overprescribed.
Jumpy
Posted by Mr Cushing on February 26, 2003, at 18:11:22
In reply to Re: Zyprexa--overpresribed? YES » Jack Smith, posted by Jumpy on February 26, 2003, at 17:14:03
Hey, I was just reading over this thread and I'm interested in what everybody has to say about Seroquel. I've been prescribed Seroquel for a number of reasons. My PDoc basically says that it's like I've been dealt a handful of cards, some cards from the typical depression pile, some cards from the anxiety pile, a few from the panic disorders pile, a few from the Post-traumatic stress pile, a few from the after-effects of alcohol/drug abuse pile, etc. Basically, I've got a whole bunch of different symptoms all thrown into one package. So I've been prescribed Seroquel which two Doctors so far have told me is pretty safe to take and should really help me out. The first Doctor told me that it was completely anti-toxic and that the only real problem that I should have to worry about in taking this, even in the long term, is that I'll be sedated for a little bit whenever I increase my dosage. But that she would recommend that I get myself up to between 100-200mgs of Seroquel a day, possibly more, and possibly with Lamotragene (sp?) as an add-on.So, since this stuff about Diabetes and other problems is sort of starting to scare me, let me know if there's anything seriously to worry about concerning Seroquel and what I should be on the lookout for.
Thanks........
Posted by ace on February 26, 2003, at 19:49:02
In reply to Zyprexa--overpresribed? YES, posted by Jack Smith on February 26, 2003, at 15:39:49
Posted by SLS on February 26, 2003, at 21:09:41
In reply to Re: Anyone on typical antipsychotics?, posted by stjames on February 26, 2003, at 14:27:05
Hi James.
> My experience is they all cause TD or EPS
Forgive my sieve of a hippocampus, but which atypical neuroleptics have produced EPS in you?
> at far too high a rate to be a resonable treatment for all but the most ill psychotic persons.
Do you feel it is reasonable to use Zyprexa to treat the most refractory of treatment-resistant non-psychotic affective disorders - especially when it works so well?
It might take another 10 years to more fully evaluate the potential for Zyprexa to produce serious irreversible side-effects. From what I can see so far, it doesn't seem to have a great potential to do so.
When I was first offered to use Zyprexa for my treatment-resistant bipolar depression, I was scared and refused. The term "tardive dyskynesia" was as frightening to me as the word "cancer". Even a 0.00000000001 percent risk was too great for me to consider. My feelings have since changed. Unfortunately, our current pharmacopoeia leaves wide gaps in offering drugs that treat all cases of axis-I disorders adequately, let alone safely. I seem to have fallen into such a gap. As you know, James, my doctors have been trying to obtain a long-term antidepressant response for me since 1982. With the exception of a 9-month period in 1987, they have failed while using an armamentarium of both traditional and exotic treatments. For me, I deem the risk of TD using Clozaril, Zyprexa or Seroquel close enough to zero to opt for using these drugs - at least until they can be replaced with something else that works. And they DO work. I guess each of us who fall into treatment gap must balance for himself the pros and cons of any particular treatment.
I recently began taking Abilify. Using the data produced by the few pharmacological investigations available, there are some theoretical predictions of a virtual zero risk of motor EPS and TD. The studies indicate that Abilify does not accumulate in the striatum, the region of the brain thought to be involved in producing these side-effects through receptor supersensitization. I am not so convinced, although I have no evidence to speculate otherwise. I just don't like the fact that Abilify has such a high binding affinity to postsynaptic D2 receptors. However, with what little exposure I have had to information - both public and sequestered - and the thoughts and judgments of the many clinicians I have had personal contact with, I remain convinced that these drugs are valid choices for some people who suffer from non-psychotic mental illnesses.
That's just me, of course. I guess I have become sufficiently sick-and-tired of being sick-and-tired to be more receptive to risk in exchange for a potential cosmic benefit.
What about hiccups?
- Scott
(I didn't have the energy to proofread this).
Posted by SLS on February 26, 2003, at 21:27:38
In reply to Re: Anyone on typical antipsychotics? » stjames, posted by SLS on February 26, 2003, at 21:09:41
Dear James,
Please accept my apology. I didn't pay enough attention to the evolution of the thread.
If I had just paid enough attention to the subject line, I would have realized that you were referring to typicals rather than atypicals. I guess I just lost my place once Zyprexa was brought into the conversation.
Again, please accept my apology for my carelessness.
Sincerely,
Scott
Posted by Ritch on February 27, 2003, at 1:06:15
In reply to Anyone on typical antipsychotics?, posted by JohnV on February 26, 2003, at 13:01:21
> I was wondering if anyone has been on a typical (older gen) antipsychotic for long-term, and would appreciate any information or experiences. Thanks. John V.
FWIW, My first AP was Thorazine (25mg afternoons) back in 1981 for hostility. It worked rather well for that and I didn't get any EPS for the year or so that I was taking it. My pdoc that wrote for it did tell me that increasing it to 50mg would probably cause akathisia (the Thorazine "shuffles"), but I never increased it any (never felt the need to). He said it was bad for plugging up the bile ducts in your liver, but I was never on it long enough to find that out or experience that problem. Stelazine and Haldol *did* cause MAJOR EPS problems right from the getgo and I couldn't take those at all. I wound up on thioridazine 10-30mg/day (Mellaril) with lithium and I didn't get any EPS from that at that dosage. Also, didn't get any depressogenic effects from Mellaril like I did with Thorazine. HOWEVER, I did develop a cataract in one eye during the time I was using it and one of my retinas is pigmented (from that time-which it can cause-cataracts and retinal pigmentation). Of the atypicals, Risperdal caused significant EPS, but it was more cogwheel rigidity/gait disturbances and dystonic reactions in my throat. Seroquel was much more tolerable, but also way too sedative. I don't want to try any of the damn things ever again..period.
Posted by stjames on February 27, 2003, at 12:15:29
In reply to Re: Anyone on typical... My apologies to James. » SLS, posted by SLS on February 26, 2003, at 21:27:38
No problem, it was clear that you thought I was talking about all AP's, not just typical.
I will sum it up this way:
1) All AP's can cause EPS and TD
2) The older ones have a long history
of causing these problems at a significant
rate
3) The newer ones have not been out long enough
to really tell the true extent of TD and EPS
across the general population in a clinical setting.
Posted by JohnV on February 27, 2003, at 12:24:24
In reply to What's everybody's feeling on Seroquel?, posted by Mr Cushing on February 26, 2003, at 18:11:22
>
> Hey, I was just reading over this thread and I'm interested in what everybody has to say about Seroquel. I've been prescribed Seroquel for a number of reasons. My PDoc basically says that it's like I've been dealt a handful of cards, some cards from the typical depression pile, some cards from the anxiety pile, a few from the panic disorders pile, a few from the Post-traumatic stress pile, a few from the after-effects of alcohol/drug abuse pile, etc. Basically, I've got a whole bunch of different symptoms all thrown into one package. So I've been prescribed Seroquel which two Doctors so far have told me is pretty safe to take and should really help me out. The first Doctor told me that it was completely anti-toxic and that the only real problem that I should have to worry about in taking this, even in the long term, is that I'll be sedated for a little bit whenever I increase my dosage. But that she would recommend that I get myself up to between 100-200mgs of Seroquel a day, possibly more, and possibly with Lamotragene (sp?) as an add-on.
>
> So, since this stuff about Diabetes and other problems is sort of starting to scare me, let me know if there's anything seriously to worry about concerning Seroquel and what I should be on the lookout for.
>
> Thanks........I am sorry, I didn't mean to post info to scare anybody. From what I understand, Seroquel is the very least worrisome about diabetes out of Risperdal/Zyprexa. Even with Zyprexa, if the benefits are great, I'd think it would be something that would just need to be kept an eye out for. Take care. John.
Posted by JohnV on February 27, 2003, at 23:07:00
In reply to Anyone on typical antipsychotics?, posted by JohnV on February 26, 2003, at 13:01:21
I am sorry if I plastered too much info about possible diabetes/Zyprexa link. This seems to be an excellent medication, one I was on until massive weight gain and diabetes risk became a bit too much. (My father is diabetic, so I am afraid of risk, and my weight was direly affecting my health.) The medication also seemed to lose effect over time for me, so we weighed in risk/benefit, and it was stopped. But it does seem to continue to help many (especially Bipolar patients who don't respond to mood stabalizers well) and as always just think it is wise to be cautious and have knowledge no matter what the medication. If the medication provides an excellent response, I think it would be wrong to stop if no quality alternatives exist. John.
Posted by JohnV on February 27, 2003, at 23:14:58
In reply to Re: Anyone on typical antipsychotics?, posted by Jaynee on February 26, 2003, at 15:42:30
> Check out the thread I posted just above this one, that says "interesting article". It pertains to this very topic.
Yes, thanks, as that article is what brought me to post this other research. I just feel really confused about risks/benefits of all antipsychotics now, as I have also read very low doses of typical antipsychotics have been shown to have little risk to them.(I can't recall the references, but there doesn't seem to be much study in the area as drug companies have no desire to show little-profit benefits of older typicals.)
I guess that is why I was looking for some first-hand experiences. Thanks again, as this is of course an important topic to so many. Take care. John.
Posted by cybercafe on February 28, 2003, at 18:06:16
In reply to Re: Anyone on typical antipsychotics? » Jaynee, posted by JohnV on February 27, 2003, at 23:14:58
> > Check out the thread I posted just above this one, that says "interesting article". It pertains to this very topic.
>
> Yes, thanks, as that article is what brought me to post this other research. I just feel really confused about risks/benefits of all antipsychotics now, as I have also read very low doses of typical antipsychotics have been shown to have little risk to them.(I can't recall the references, but there doesn't seem to be much study in the area as drug companies have no desire to show little-profit benefits of older typicals.)
>
> I guess that is why I was looking for some first-hand experiences. Thanks again, as this is of course an important topic to so many. Take care. John.
>
>i think another reason why the atypicals are seen as better is cuz they work on the negative sypmtoms of SZ... depression... etc
i'm guessing that the older AP don't have antidepressant (other than through mood stabilizing) effects
Posted by stjames on February 28, 2003, at 18:20:28
In reply to Re: Anyone on typical antipsychotics?, posted by cybercafe on February 28, 2003, at 18:06:16
> i'm guessing that the older AP don't have antidepressant (other than through mood stabilizing) effects
Actually, some of the old ones do have AD effects.
This is the end of the thread.
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