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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by crazychickuk on February 22, 2003, at 16:19:10
hi there,
i have taken effexor (made me have anxiety) prothiaden (to sleepy) beta blocka (made me to slow and week) celexa (made me panicky more, raised my heart rate) zoloft (raised my heart rate) valuim (doc took me of it) NOW the doc has given me traxodone as i am at my wits end 150 mg a d ay, 50 morn 50 after noon and 50 nightly, or all 3 night or different times in the night.. i started it on wednesday and saturday had to stop as i got the flu, and i need my cough med and says not to mix, i founf it knocked me out, but the thing is for a week now i have been suffering with identity disorder, i dont recognize myself still to this day, i am all brain fogged, have been all week even before i started the med, but i have noticed the moods gone..
The thing is i am really bad with anxiety and i need meds and so far no ssri has helped me in that department.... shall i just give up my life or what.. i dont understand how the doc says ssri wont work so we will try you on a trylic.. i hear these r dangerous.. what is he difference... any output.... plse plse plse plse... thankyou for reading
Posted by zeugma on February 22, 2003, at 18:09:31
In reply to ssri or trylic please help me... , posted by crazychickuk on February 22, 2003, at 16:19:10
The TCA's in my experience do a good job in cutting through the fog. Prothiaden is actually a tricyclic, but it's one of the most sedating ones- nortriptyline is less sedating and desipramine is probably even less. I don't know if they are helpful for identity disorder though.
Posted by zeugma on February 22, 2003, at 20:12:25
In reply to ssri or trylic please help me... , posted by crazychickuk on February 22, 2003, at 16:19:10
Forgot to add this last time: In the the UK there's a safer secondary amine tricyclic called lofepramine that's available, and may be better than the ones I mentioned.
Posted by daizy on February 23, 2003, at 5:17:28
In reply to ssri or trylic please help me... , posted by crazychickuk on February 22, 2003, at 16:19:10
> hi there,
>
> i have taken effexor (made me have anxiety) prothiaden (to sleepy) beta blocka (made me to slow and week) celexa (made me panicky more, raised my heart rate) zoloft (raised my heart rate) valuim (doc took me of it) NOW the doc has given me traxodone as i am at my wits end 150 mg a d ay, 50 morn 50 after noon and 50 nightly, or all 3 night or different times in the night.. i started it on wednesday and saturday had to stop as i got the flu, and i need my cough med and says not to mix, i founf it knocked me out, but the thing is for a week now i have been suffering with identity disorder, i dont recognize myself still to this day, i am all brain fogged, have been all week even before i started the med, but i have noticed the moods gone..
> The thing is i am really bad with anxiety and i need meds and so far no ssri has helped me in that department.... shall i just give up my life or what.. i dont understand how the doc says ssri wont work so we will try you on a trylic.. i hear these r dangerous.. what is he difference... any output.... plse plse plse plse... thankyou for readingI suffer from anxiety too, and had no luck with SSRI's. Your doctor is right that they probably wont work for you if you have tried that many. It must be something to do with brain chemistry, but SSRI's seem to make bad anxiety worse. I found they made me manic some days and totally on edge other days. I am now taking amitriptyline, TCA, it helps me sleep at night, whereas when I was on SSRI I'd be awake till very late, and have bad sleep. It has been better than SSRI's so far. They can be dangerous if you OD on them but so can all meds. I think its probably the one your doctor will put you on if you are in the uk(like me) Maybe you could discuss it with him.
Posted by crazychickuk on February 23, 2003, at 15:44:13
In reply to Re: a safer tricyclic » crazychickuk, posted by zeugma on February 22, 2003, at 20:12:25
thankyou i will have a look for that one lofepramine, amitry what is that like then? i find with the trylics scares me a little, i read about people dying on them not just in od.. ouch... also with trazodone i find i feel drunk.. BUT i have to ring doc tommorrow to let her know how the traz is working i will be telling her about the drunking feeling.. see what she says.. hope they dont give up on me..
Posted by zeugma on February 23, 2003, at 19:06:47
In reply to Re: a safer tricyclic, posted by crazychickuk on February 23, 2003, at 15:44:13
> thankyou i will have a look for that one lofepramine, amitry what is that like then? i find with the trylics scares me a little, i read about people dying on them not just in od.. ouch... also with trazodone i find i feel drunk.. BUT i have to ring doc tommorrow to let her know how the traz is working i will be telling her about the drunking feeling.. see what she says.. hope they dont give up on me..
If you're on a tricyclic you'll be monitored a little more closely healthwise than if you were on a SSRI, because these drugs can affect blood pressure. But I don't think getting your blood pressure taken every month is necessarily a bad thing. The most important thing is to feel better, and since you didn't do well on an SSRI, there's a good chance a tricyclic would help you. Good luck.
Posted by likelife on February 23, 2003, at 20:50:45
In reply to ssri or trylic please help me... , posted by crazychickuk on February 22, 2003, at 16:19:10
I've been taking desipramine (TCA) for awhile, and was never really told about any danger (except of course in overdose, in which case, the tricyclics can be quite dangerous). It helps me sleep at night (though I take a little trazodone too for that). I believe that with most tricyclics, docs can do blood tests to check whether the med is in a therapeutic range (I had them done for the first few months until everything was adjusted right). I've only had mild anxiety though. I'm not sure how tricyclics affect anxiety.
Good luck
Posted by daizy on February 24, 2003, at 7:48:07
In reply to Re: a safer tricyclic » crazychickuk, posted by zeugma on February 23, 2003, at 19:06:47
>I have been on a TCA for six weeks and I havnt been to my doc since starting them, If these meds affect blood pressure, should I go and see my doc? At what dosage do these meds become dangerous? What is the blood test needed for? If anybody knows???
Posted by zeugma on February 24, 2003, at 7:59:01
In reply to Re: a safer tricyclicQUESTION?, posted by daizy on February 24, 2003, at 7:48:07
>
> >
>
> I have been on a TCA for six weeks and I havnt been to my doc since starting them, If these meds affect blood pressure, should I go and see my doc? At what dosage do these meds become dangerous? What is the blood test needed for? If anybody knows???
>The blood test is used to determine levels of the TCA in the blood. Usually the purpose is to see if 'therapeutic levels' have been reached. Do you have side effects like orthostatic hypotension (dizziness when you stand up)? If the drug is lowering your blood pressure it will likely cause frequent dizziness and faintness.
Posted by daizy on February 24, 2003, at 10:58:51
In reply to Re: a safer tricyclicQUESTION? » daizy, posted by zeugma on February 24, 2003, at 7:59:01
> >
> > >
> >
> > I have been on a TCA for six weeks and I havnt been to my doc since starting them, If these meds affect blood pressure, should I go and see my doc? At what dosage do these meds become dangerous? What is the blood test needed for? If anybody knows???
> >
>
> The blood test is used to determine levels of the TCA in the blood. Usually the purpose is to see if 'therapeutic levels' have been reached. Do you have side effects like orthostatic hypotension (dizziness when you stand up)? If the drug is lowering your blood pressure it will likely cause frequent dizziness and faintness.
>
>
As yet I havnt had any side effects. I do feel a little better depression wise, but the anxiety is still there. Untill today I had not had a panic attack, although it wasnt a bad one. I have not had any dizziness or faintness. I see the doc in a few weeks, maybe I'll have to have a blood test then, although I may get changed to a different med, one for anxiety(I hope!)
Posted by zeugma on February 24, 2003, at 12:24:08
In reply to Re: a safer tricyclicQUESTION?, posted by daizy on February 24, 2003, at 10:58:51
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > I have been on a TCA for six weeks and I havnt been to my doc since starting them, If these meds affect blood pressure, should I go and see my doc? At what dosage do these meds become dangerous? What is the blood test needed for? If anybody knows???
> > >
> >
> > The blood test is used to determine levels of the TCA in the blood. Usually the purpose is to see if 'therapeutic levels' have been reached. Do you have side effects like orthostatic hypotension (dizziness when you stand up)? If the drug is lowering your blood pressure it will likely cause frequent dizziness and faintness.
> >
> >
> As yet I havnt had any side effects. I do feel a little better depression wise, but the anxiety is still there. Untill today I had not had a panic attack, although it wasnt a bad one. I have not had any dizziness or faintness. I see the doc in a few weeks, maybe I'll have to have a blood test then, although I may get changed to a different med, one for anxiety(I hope!)
TCA's by themselves help with anxiety but in a subtle, moderating way. I was recently asked by a psychiatrist whether my anxiety was worse than my depression and I said yes. I currently take 30 mg buspirone in addition to nortriptyline. The buspirone has worked very well for me and the buspirone/TCA combination is definitely safe; I can't say that it would help you, though, because I would just be generalizing from my own experience. It sounds like the TCA is helping you, so maybe you should augment it with an antianxiety med instead of dropping the TCA.
Posted by daizy on February 24, 2003, at 13:01:25
In reply to Re: a safer tricyclicQUESTION? » daizy, posted by zeugma on February 24, 2003, at 12:24:08
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have been on a TCA for six weeks and I havnt been to my doc since starting them, If these meds affect blood pressure, should I go and see my doc? At what dosage do these meds become dangerous? What is the blood test needed for? If anybody knows???
> > > >
> > >
> > > The blood test is used to determine levels of the TCA in the blood. Usually the purpose is to see if 'therapeutic levels' have been reached. Do you have side effects like orthostatic hypotension (dizziness when you stand up)? If the drug is lowering your blood pressure it will likely cause frequent dizziness and faintness.
> > >
> > >
> > As yet I havnt had any side effects. I do feel a little better depression wise, but the anxiety is still there. Untill today I had not had a panic attack, although it wasnt a bad one. I have not had any dizziness or faintness. I see the doc in a few weeks, maybe I'll have to have a blood test then, although I may get changed to a different med, one for anxiety(I hope!)
>
>
> TCA's by themselves help with anxiety but in a subtle, moderating way. I was recently asked by a psychiatrist whether my anxiety was worse than my depression and I said yes. I currently take 30 mg buspirone in addition to nortriptyline. The buspirone has worked very well for me and the buspirone/TCA combination is definitely safe; I can't say that it would help you, though, because I would just be generalizing from my own experience. It sounds like the TCA is helping you, so maybe you should augment it with an antianxiety med instead of dropping the TCA.
>
> Yeah that sounds good, I have a bit of a problem in that I dont see a Pdoc, I only see a GP, I know they dont really know that much about Psych meds and combinations and things! I may have to just bring it up, but Im not to keen on the Idea as I dont know wht the response might be?????!
Thanx :-)
Posted by daizy on February 24, 2003, at 13:06:04
In reply to Re: a safer tricyclicQUESTION? » daizy, posted by zeugma on February 24, 2003, at 12:24:08
> TCA's by themselves help with anxiety but in a subtle, moderating way. I was recently asked by a psychiatrist whether my anxiety was worse than my depression and I said yes. I currently take 30 mg buspirone in addition to nortriptyline. The buspirone has worked very well for me and the buspirone/TCA combination is definitely safe; I can't say that it would help you, though, because I would just be generalizing from my own experience. It sounds like the TCA is helping you, so maybe you should augment it with an antianxiety med instead of dropping the TCA.
>
> I forgot to ask!, Is Buspirone an SSRI? what type of med is it? Is it specifically for anxiety? thanx!
Posted by zeugma on February 24, 2003, at 13:45:47
In reply to Re: a safer tricyclicQUESTION? » zeugma, posted by daizy on February 24, 2003, at 13:06:04
>
> > TCA's by themselves help with anxiety but in a subtle, moderating way. I was recently asked by a psychiatrist whether my anxiety was worse than my depression and I said yes. I currently take 30 mg buspirone in addition to nortriptyline. The buspirone has worked very well for me and the buspirone/TCA combination is definitely safe; I can't say that it would help you, though, because I would just be generalizing from my own experience. It sounds like the TCA is helping you, so maybe you should augment it with an antianxiety med instead of dropping the TCA.
> >
> > I forgot to ask!, Is Buspirone an SSRI? what type of med is it? Is it specifically for anxiety? thanx!
>
> Yes, buspirone is specifically for anxiety. It's not an SSRI, but a serotonin and dopamine agonist. It actually has the opposite effect to an SSRI in that it decreases serotonin levels in the brain http://www.parkinsons-information-exchangenetwork-online.comdrugdb/022.html (this is a Parkinsons drug database but it has the clearest statement of buspirone's actions that I can find right now). I'm not sure if this means that if you don't like SSRI's, then buspirone might work, but I know I had a terrible reaction to SSRI's, and the decrease in serotonin levels that I've gotten from the buspirone has elevated my mood considerably.
Posted by zeugma on February 24, 2003, at 13:49:29
In reply to Re: a safer tricyclicQUESTION? » daizy, posted by zeugma on February 24, 2003, at 13:45:47
http://www.parkinsons-information-exchange-network-online.com/drugdb/022.html
Posted by crazychickuk on February 24, 2003, at 15:28:28
In reply to Re: this hyperlink should work, posted by zeugma on February 24, 2003, at 13:49:29
ok basically like in my above post. about all ssris made me worse, and the trylic is making me dopey and not helping with my anxiety... what is there to try now?
i mean what could be wrong with my seratone, (spelling sorry) i feel so foggy, mentally bad and anxiety ridden, all these thoughs r driving me insane i am so afraid of loosing my mind, i feel that i may be phsyicosed soon and am really scared..
whats an ssri for?
whats a trylic for?
whats buspar for?
i mean could i not have probs with seratone? what are the differences between them, someone explain to me please, docs in the uk dont know nothing and my phsyiciatrsit discharged me as the zoloft she gave me raised my blood preasure so she said nothing more she can do but to transfer me back to a cpn.. ahhhhhhhh
please any answers?
Posted by daizy on February 24, 2003, at 16:39:12
In reply to Re: a safer tricyclicQUESTION? » daizy, posted by zeugma on February 24, 2003, at 13:45:47
> >
> > > TCA's by themselves help with anxiety but in a subtle, moderating way. I was recently asked by a psychiatrist whether my anxiety was worse than my depression and I said yes. I currently take 30 mg buspirone in addition to nortriptyline. The buspirone has worked very well for me and the buspirone/TCA combination is definitely safe; I can't say that it would help you, though, because I would just be generalizing from my own experience. It sounds like the TCA is helping you, so maybe you should augment it with an antianxiety med instead of dropping the TCA.
> > >
> > > I forgot to ask!, Is Buspirone an SSRI? what type of med is it? Is it specifically for anxiety? thanx!
> >
> > Yes, buspirone is specifically for anxiety. It's not an SSRI, but a serotonin and dopamine agonist. It actually has the opposite effect to an SSRI in that it decreases serotonin levels in the brain http://www.parkinsons-information-exchangenetwork-online.comdrugdb/022.html (this is a Parkinsons drug database but it has the clearest statement of buspirone's actions that I can find right now). I'm not sure if this means that if you don't like SSRI's, then buspirone might work, but I know I had a terrible reaction to SSRI's, and the decrease in serotonin levels that I've gotten from the buspirone has elevated my mood considerably.
>
>
You'll have to forgive me, I dont really get the agonist/antagonist jargon, But after reading the link you provided, it sounds like a good med, why is used for parkinsons? I thought dapression and anxiety were caused because of a lack of serotonin? That just shows how little I know about all this Psych stuff! Are there any side effects? What other meds have you tried for anxiety, and did any of them work?Sorry for all the questions! Thanx :-)
Posted by zeugma on February 24, 2003, at 21:47:10
In reply to Re: a safer tricyclicQUESTION? » zeugma, posted by daizy on February 24, 2003, at 16:39:12
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> You'll have to forgive me, I dont really get the agonist/antagonist jargon, But after reading the link you provided, it sounds like a good med, why is used for parkinsons? I thought dapression and anxiety were caused because of a lack of serotonin? That just shows how little I know about all this Psych stuff!I don't think buspirone is actually used for Parkinson's. I think it's in their database because it might potentially interact with Parkinson's drugs. The theory endorsed by the manufacturers of Buspar is that anxiety is caused by an EXCESS of serotonin (http://anxietyrelief.com). I think what that means is that they have a drug that reduces serotonin levels, and it can relieve anxiety, so anxiety must be an excess of serotonin. The manufacturers of Prozac say depression is too little serotonin. That's because they have a drug that raises serotonin levels, and can relieve depression. The truth is probably a lot more complex than a simple excess or lack of a single neurotransmitter.
Are there any side effects? What other meds have you tried for anxiety, and did any of them work?
>
> Sorry for all the questions! Thanx :-)I've just had dizziness and lightheadedness sometimes for a few minutes after taking a dose. I haven't taken any other meds specifically for anxiety. I've taken a lot of other meds, however, for ADD and depression which I've had all my lefe. All of them had bad side effects or interfered with my sleep and appetite too much, except for the nortriptyline, and now the buspirone. I'd say that I'm someone who needs *sedating* drugs, nothing too activating like a lot of antidepressants and ADD meds.
Posted by zeugma on February 24, 2003, at 22:11:55
In reply to what is the l difference between an ssri trylic ?, posted by crazychickuk on February 24, 2003, at 15:28:28
> ok basically like in my above post. about all ssris made me worse, and the trylic is making me dopey and not helping with my anxiety... what is there to try now?
>
> i mean what could be wrong with my seratone, (spelling sorry) i feel so foggy, mentally bad and anxiety ridden, all these thoughs r driving me insane i am so afraid of loosing my mind, i feel that i may be phsyicosed soon and am really scared..
> whats an ssri for?
> whats a trylic for?
> whats buspar for?
> i mean could i not have probs with seratone? what are the differences between them, someone explain to me please, docs in the uk dont know nothing and my phsyiciatrsit discharged me as the zoloft she gave me raised my blood preasure so she said nothing more she can do but to transfer me back to a cpn.. ahhhhhhhh
>
>
> please any answers?
Is 'cpn' a hospital? They may know what they're doing there more than your psychiatrist.... have they prescribed anything for your anxiety yet? Tricyclics need time to kick in, at first they'll just make you 'dopey' and maybe more emotional. It sounds like you have a complicated diagnosis. Have you told your doctor what you're going through? Some old-fashioned talk therapy sounds necessary, too.
Posted by ricardo on February 25, 2003, at 6:34:07
In reply to Re: a safer tricyclicQUESTION? » daizy, posted by zeugma on February 24, 2003, at 21:47:10
Hi!
The only side-effect I had on Tofranil (which I understand is a tricyclic) was impotence. For the first time since I started taking AD's (which now I have stopped) I got really and totally impotent. I hated it, so I stopped. Now (see my other posts) I'm considering the idea of going back to the doc and try again. I believe that impotence has to do with blood pressure...
Good luck,
Ricardo
Posted by crazychickuk on February 25, 2003, at 10:52:29
In reply to Re: a safer tricyclicQUESTION? » daizy, posted by zeugma on February 24, 2003, at 21:47:10
The site i went to is posted in another post cant remmeber the actuall adress but it is a very interesting site, if you find it it is an aol search goto the second one down, anyways it explains there, that anxiety and depression are caused by to LITTLE seratone, and most ssris just block the seritone and sometimes that is why they can cause anxiety or even worse things,as you have to little seratone in the first place for it to be blocked,, i beleive this, as i get alot of anxiety when i tried any ssri.. (which is alot) i obviousley dont have enough seratone being released, so i need a med that releases it such as 5-HTP.. (tryptophan)
and did you also know that effexor isnt actually an ssri it is more like a tricylic, interesting isnt it? we dont get told nothing and there arnt any tests that i know off to actually measure the seritone in our system, docs just give u an ssri to block the seritone (block depression, anxiety etc) and it isnt sorting the actuall problem out in some people as there course is to little seritone in the first place..
Posted by crazychickuk on February 25, 2003, at 10:53:38
In reply to Re: what is the l difference between an ssri trylic ? » crazychickuk, posted by zeugma on February 24, 2003, at 22:11:55
cpn is like a pshyicologist. they cant give you nothing and i am still awaiting a proper diagnoses..
Posted by daizy on February 25, 2003, at 12:55:12
In reply to Re: what is the l difference between an ssri trylic ?, posted by crazychickuk on February 25, 2003, at 10:53:38
> cpn is like a pshyicologist. they cant give you nothing and i am still awaiting a proper diagnoses..
Yes, Effexor is an SNRI. Are you only seeing a community Psychiatric Nurse? (CPN) My understanding is that they cannot prescribe any medication, but if you told them your feelings of bad anxiety ect.. would they not refer you to a psychiatrist, or do you already see one? It just seems a little pointless in seeing a CPN if they cant actually give you the meds you need, no? Is it the CPN that will make your diagnosis, are they able to do so?
Posted by crazychickuk on February 25, 2003, at 15:15:51
In reply to Re: what is the l difference between an ssri trylic ? » crazychickuk, posted by daizy on February 25, 2003, at 12:55:12
3 years ago after the birth of my daughter i became mildly depressed and went to see the doc for some help as i am a single mother, i was given 35mg of effexor to take onece daily, anyways i was taken it for a few weeks felt absoultely great on it, doc decided to up my dose to 70mg a day for the second week then i went to 150mg (all within 3 weeks of starting it) anyways the first day of me starting the 150mg i went out with my freinds shopping in the city , and i came over all funny, i had to go to the hospital and docs there told me to stop taking the medicine cold turkey gave me valuim, i was all confused, drowsey, trembling anxious etc, i had experienced my first panick attack ever, i felt weird and spacey for over a year untill i went back to the doctors as i couldnt handle it anymore i was social phobic, panicky all the time, nervous, getting all sorts of weird physical symptoms etc, so i was given celexa (cipramil) 10mg to start on, i didnt find it helping me but i stuck with it for 9 weeks, i missed a few doses as i was unwell with the flu and then when i took my next dose i experienced a very high anxiety attack and the worst ever migrane ever, and was rushed into hospital and was given valuim again and was told to stop the celexa cold turkey as it made me get high blood preasure, and made me gain alot weght.
Doctor (gp) finally refered me to a cpn nurse who visited me in my home as i was unable to go out anywhere due to the social phobia (i.e feeling of fear etc) after just 2 mnths of therapy with her she told me she couldnt do nothing more for me and asked me to go back to the doctor and asked to be refered to a phsyiciatrst and she would also write a letter to the doctor (gp).
I finally seen the phsyiciatrst for an hr and she refered me for an mri and an eeg to put my mind at rest etc (a further 7 mnthss to wait), then she gave me lustral (zoloft) 50 mg to take, i took it for 2 weeks, but i was more aware of my heart racing went to the doc for a check up and my pulse was 80 at rest etc and he told me to stop taken them, went back to phsyiciatrst and she discharged me (?????) went back to the doctor and he gave me prothiaden took it for 3 weeks and it just made me dopey, drunk etc. stopped it.
Went a further 2 mnths without taken anything and i had a complete relapse, i lost my temper big time, i am experiencing severe, hot flushes, unreal feeling, severe anxiety, disturbing visions, memory block, hard to concentrate, finding it difficult to understand, dificult to read things, and the worst thing is a full foggy head, i went back to the doctors again and she put me on trazodone and it has the exact same affect as what the prothiaden did, i stopped it within 4 days of being on it. she also refered me to the cpn again for therapy ?? and havent offered me any further medication..
I have done so much research but i dont understand it, says that to little serotonin causes anxiety depression etc, and an ssri is no good as it only blocks the serotonin, and i may not have enough of serotonin to block, i am so confused i dont know what to do, the waiting list to see another phsyiciatrist is something like 6 mnths here in the uk and the doctor dont know what else to suggest, i am so fed up and am getting disturbing visions, and feelings that my mental ability is just going down, (ie phsyicosis maybe) and i need help so desperatly
Posted by zeugma on February 25, 2003, at 20:35:34
In reply to here it is, posted by crazychickuk on February 25, 2003, at 15:15:51
Were you suffering from severe insomnia? In the US trazodone is mostly used as a sleep adjunct because it's so sedating and relatively ineffective as an antidepressant. Maybe that's why they gave you the Prothiaden also? Have you told your doctors about your identity disorder? If you're not sleeping that could cause the anxiety and even hallucinations. But I'm thinking that your cpn or whoever you're seeing should be aware that you're getting these disturbing visions.
I think it's very positive that you're researching the causes of depression and the workings of antidepressants. Unfortunately no one really knows about what causes depression or even why antidepressants work. It's more guesswork and intuition than anything else right now. A lot of fascinating clues but no answers yet.
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