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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 41. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Craig Allen on February 19, 2003, at 14:27:13
this is my second day off of adderall, i had been on 20mg, 3 times per day for about a month. two days ago, i took half of my normal amount, thinking i would taper off. i had gotten to the point though, where the drug was making me feel awful. so yesterday, i went cold turkey and today i've done the same. i'm in the most brutal depression i've been in in years due to the withdrawal. everything is making me anxious and i'm tired and sad about things that normally don't make me sad. i called off work yesterday and today. tomorrow i really have to go to work and i'm feeling unable to. i don't expect this to lift overnight. the only thing i can think of to do, is to go back to a small dose of the adderall tomorrow to get through the work day. and then i would do the same on friday. i really don't want to do this because i don't want to have to start the whole withdrawal process over again. but i can't go to work feeling like this either. i'm in a really bad way. anyone have any ideas for me? thanks.
Posted by stjames on February 19, 2003, at 14:37:24
In reply to Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!!!, posted by Craig Allen on February 19, 2003, at 14:27:13
you have caused this by going cold turkey.
Do not do this. Taper.
Posted by Craig Allen on February 19, 2003, at 15:09:40
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!!!, posted by stjames on February 19, 2003, at 14:37:24
thanks for the advice. i'll follow it. my plan after reading your frank post, was to resume the adderall tomorrow when i return to work. as uncomfortable as i am right now with the depression and anxiety, i am assuming that not having the drug in my system is expediting the withdrawal process. do you agree, or do you think i should take a small dose immediately? thanks for holding my hand through this. i need it.
Posted by stjames on February 19, 2003, at 15:43:27
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!!! » stjames, posted by Craig Allen on February 19, 2003, at 15:09:40
i am assuming that not having the drug in my system is expediting the withdrawal process. do you agree, or do you think i should take a small dose immediately?
No, it is making the w/d process WORSE.
You DO NOT speed up anything by stopping
a med at once, and you are SHOCKING your system.
You are doing harm by preceeding without knowing
any real facts about how to withdraw from a med.
Cardiact or CNS hazardous events can and will happen if you contince as you have been.Quite frankly, if you do not understand how this works, you are really playing with fire.
Have you consulted a doc about this ? Sorry,
I am really uncomfortable giving you medical advice. Here is a clue:
1) w/d has NOTHING to do with lowering the levels of a med in you body
2) w/d has EVERYTHING to do with your body having adjusted to the presence of this med. Tapering allows your body to slowly abjust to less of the med.Sudden succession of this class of meds is known to cause:
seziure, CNS shock, Cardiac events (stroke, heart
attack, very high blood pressure)
Posted by Craig Allen on February 19, 2003, at 16:10:32
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!!!, posted by stjames on February 19, 2003, at 15:43:27
my doctor, who i saw yesterday, didn't have a problem with me going off the adderall cold turkey. he was concerned about my level of depression caused by the sudden stop, but he didn't express any health concerns in relation to it. your points are well taken and appreciated however. i just took a 5mg dose and i will continue at this dose, gradually tapering again this weekend. thanks again.
Posted by jesus on February 19, 2003, at 16:33:45
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!!!, posted by stjames on February 19, 2003, at 15:43:27
> Sudden succession of this class of meds is known to cause:
> seziure, CNS shock, Cardiac events (stroke, heart
> attack, very high blood pressure)really? I thought negative symptoms from amphetamine withdrawal were only psychological...are you sure?
Posted by Hattree on February 19, 2003, at 18:49:53
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!!!, posted by jesus on February 19, 2003, at 16:33:45
I've cold turkeyed from pstims more than once...it sucks, but so does tapering in my experience. The depression sucks, but taking less than enough is just as uncomfortable (for me).
I have better luck with taking a couple of days off, until the jitters wear off and the depression and lethargy remain, and THEN take a much lower dose.
Posted by stjames on February 19, 2003, at 18:57:21
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!!! » stjames, posted by Craig Allen on February 19, 2003, at 16:10:32
> my doctor, who i saw yesterday, didn't have a problem with me going off the adderall cold turkey. he was concerned about my level of depression caused by the sudden stop, but he didn't express any health concerns in relation to it. your points are well taken and appreciated however.
Well, I had to stop once as my HMO was being a pain, went to the ER with a splitting headache,
my BP was 225/155 !!!!!! Mind you this was 2 days after a stopped so no amphetamine was in my system,
this was the withdrawal effect.Lots of docs say stop Effexor at once, this list knows better.
Trust this old speed freak, don't stop at once.
Some can, some cannot. The risks are real, as I mentioned. It does vary person to person.
Just like some people are fools and some are not.
Posted by zenclear on February 19, 2003, at 19:11:25
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!!!, posted by stjames on February 19, 2003, at 18:57:21
> > my doctor, who i saw yesterday, didn't have a problem with me going off the adderall cold turkey. he was concerned about my level of depression caused by the sudden stop, but he didn't express any health concerns in relation to it. your points are well taken and appreciated however.
>
> Well, I had to stop once as my HMO was being a pain, went to the ER with a splitting headache,
> my BP was 225/155 !!!!!! Mind you this was 2 days after a stopped so no amphetamine was in my system,
> this was the withdrawal effect.
>
> Lots of docs say stop Effexor at once, this list knows better.
>
> Trust this old speed freak, don't stop at once.
> Some can, some cannot. The risks are real, as I mentioned. It does vary person to person.
> Just like some people are fools and some are not.
>
>I find it VERY helpful to hear what others have experienced when going off stims. Thank you! Please tell more!
For example, the paradoxical effect of RAISED BP upon discontinuation is good to know about. One can become very confused about sdie effects when one is conflicted about whether to continue, raise a dose, or discontinue.
I tapered of dex a few months ago, but only stayed off a few days, and due to increased pressure at work, I resumed and increased my dose.
As a consequence, for months, I had a very hard time feeling normal on any dose! I either had constant elevated BP (felt like it!I did nor measure) or felt understimulated. All this because -- I think -- my body was not tolerating any dose well anymore.
I don't take much dex (5-12 mg/day), but tapering off this small amount turned out to be confusing on my body, because I'd get BP stress, and not know what to do etc. I'd like to taper (or go off) again, but this time I realize it's important to stay off a while, not just a week. So my body can truely adjust.
Any counsel? (No, I don't take other stuff)
Posted by Craig Allen on February 19, 2003, at 19:11:58
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!!! » jesus , posted by Hattree on February 19, 2003, at 18:49:53
thanks for your post. i was cold turkey for about 48 hours. a few hours ago, i took 5mg (my dose had been 20mg). it didn't give me much relief from the depression, maybe a little. i know what you mean about the unpleasantness of taking less than you need. i have to go back to work tomorrow and friday and i am going to go with the small dose. this weekend, i'll go off again and try to get done with this. how does this approach sound to you? this is a hellish thing to go through. thanks again for the feedback.
Posted by zenclear on February 19, 2003, at 23:09:11
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!!! » Hattree, posted by Craig Allen on February 19, 2003, at 19:11:58
And of course, as everyone always says -- cause it's true -- exercise! Lights weights and aerobic together can do wonders.
Posted by utopizen on February 20, 2003, at 0:16:46
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP! » stjames, posted by zenclear on February 19, 2003, at 19:11:25
Um, unless I'm mistaken here, isn't amphetamine withdrawl something more associated with amphetamine abuse? Obviously you didn't abuse anything, but 60mg/day is a rather high amount of Adderall. I thought my 20mg 2x/day was high, but at least I feel comfort in knowing many take this amount.
It may be that the high dose was too high, and that appears to have depleted your brain of neurotransmitters, which is what is responsible for amphetamine withdrawl. Such a depletion is associated more so with street use.
60mg is a ton, especially of an amphetamine mixture that clears the system so slowly... taking a lower dose as the second dose may be wiser- I do it all the time, take 20mg first dose, then 10mg PM dose. That's because your first dose is going to be in your system even when you go to sleep. It's that long. more than 12 hours is noticable in my veins without taking a second dose.
And goodness sakes, couldn't you have taken days off? It's Adderall, not anti-hypertensive! I realize depression may be rough, and sympathize, but hopefully you see some sense in what I say here?
Posted by zenclear on February 20, 2003, at 11:22:23
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!, posted by utopizen on February 20, 2003, at 0:16:46
> Um, unless I'm mistaken here, isn't amphetamine withdrawl something more associated with amphetamine abuse? Obviously you didn't abuse anything, but 60mg/day is a rather high amount of Adderall. I thought my 20mg 2x/day was high, but at least I feel comfort in knowing many take this amount.
>
> It may be that the high dose was too high, and that appears to have depleted your brain of neurotransmitters, which is what is responsible for amphetamine withdrawl. Such a depletion is associated more so with street use.
>
> 60mg is a ton, especially of an amphetamine mixture that clears the system so slowly... taking a lower dose as the second dose may be wiser- I do it all the time, take 20mg first dose, then 10mg PM dose. That's because your first dose is going to be in your system even when you go to sleep. It's that long. more than 12 hours is noticable in my veins without taking a second dose.
>
> And goodness sakes, couldn't you have taken days off? It's Adderall, not anti-hypertensive! I realize depression may be rough, and sympathize, but hopefully you see some sense in what I say here?FYI: People can experience these withdrawal feelings on dosages as low as 15 mg/day total.
Posted by Phil on February 20, 2003, at 18:48:32
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!, posted by utopizen on February 20, 2003, at 0:16:46
I recently stopped Adderall cold turkey so I could get Straterra a try. I'm sure I wasn't as happy because Straterra is not fast acting, it's more like an AD. But no other problems. My dose for about a year now is 90-120mg a day.
If I would have been aware of what St. James mentioned, I would have tapered.
I've taken high doses of every drug over the last 22 or so years. My doc seems to agree that I'm a fast metabolizer and that I need large doses of almost everything. I didn't miss a 'drug' rehearsal from '70-'85.
Posted by Craig Allen on February 20, 2003, at 19:55:03
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP! » utopizen, posted by Phil on February 20, 2003, at 18:48:32
hey phil. what was that cold turkey experience like for you? did you have intense depression and lethargy set in? if so, how long did it last? i'm a few days into going off adderall and i'm still in ugly shape. let me know. thanks.
Posted by Phil on February 20, 2003, at 21:19:55
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP! » Phil, posted by Craig Allen on February 20, 2003, at 19:55:03
I was dragging around for a few days maybe but no severe depression. But I still had four drugs in my combo.
I took Ritalin several years, 40-50mg a day, then switched to Adderall and I have no problen skipping the weekend if I want.
But! After a two week trial of Straterra I started back on Adderall and the first few days at the old dose had me buzzing, haha. It's probably not a bad idea to skip days occasionally but I have no intention of stopping it. It really helps.If you really are hurting, you might taper real slow. Good luck, Craig.
Posted by wingedcat on February 22, 2003, at 19:38:50
In reply to Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!!!, posted by Craig Allen on February 19, 2003, at 14:27:13
I'm so sorry, amph withdrawal is the worst thing EVER.
NADH (sublingual) or otherwise helps a lot. Tyrosine/DLPA helps, fish oil. Go to the health food store and load up. Any of the stuff in the brain section (except St. John's Wort) that is sold to increase alertness will help you and take cravings away. It sounds really bad but popping 893783758 vitamins does keep you from going too low, and taking the vitamins is something that you are doing to make yourself feel better.
This also sounds bad, but ephedrine, caffeine or ginseng... it helps if you have to avoid the amph, it will help you get by for a little while.
IT WILL GET BETTER.
In response to your other post, I took 5mg of selegiline with 400mg DLPA. It did feel like taking Adderall as far as the attention and relieving depression. For right now I have stopped it because my anxiety is my primary concern and I need to get that treated.
Posted by zenclear on February 22, 2003, at 21:52:29
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!!! » Craig Allen, posted by wingedcat on February 22, 2003, at 19:38:50
Don't take the ephedrine!!! Bad stuff. Take of the recent Baltimore Orioles player's death.
By the way Craig, how's it going by now?
Posted by Festus on February 22, 2003, at 22:14:37
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!, posted by zenclear on February 22, 2003, at 21:52:29
There,s just no cut-and-dry answer to a question like this.Everyone is going to have different variables.We all react in different ways to start with so who,s to say what another is going to experience when they do cut out a med?Sure,I suppose to a degree,most would feel depressed and lethargic,sleepy,tired,etc.Then come the variables.What other meds are involved,conditions,situations,backgrounds,everybody,s gonna have a different answer.I,ve taken Adderrall at the 50-60mg a day doses and then stopped all at once,felt a bit crumby for a day or so,but I had other meds involved,so it didn,t hit me as hard as it might one who had no other meds.Also,how long of a run has the person been on?I found,for me,I did better if I took it for a few weeks,took 10-12 days off,then went back for a few more weeks.But that worked for ME!Others can,t do it that way.BTW,Ephedra has been used safely for thousands of years.There are always gonna be folks that have bad reactions to drugs,especially if they are misused!The "kids that go to the ER" from Ephedrine,they usually are found to have taken WAAAYYY to much or mixed it with something.Just try and see what works best for YOU as an individual,cause it,s when we try to mimic someone else,is when we can find ourselves in deep-doo-doo! festus
Posted by jane d on February 22, 2003, at 22:24:41
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!!!, posted by stjames on February 19, 2003, at 18:57:21
> Well, I had to stop once as my HMO was being a pain, went to the ER with a splitting headache,
> my BP was 225/155 !!!!!! Mind you this was 2 days after a stopped so no amphetamine was in my system,
> this was the withdrawal effect.
>St James,
Was this with Adderall? Have you noticed your blood pressure varying to a lesser extent as a dose wears off near the end of the day? I'm new to stims and trying to figure out exactly how I am affected.
Thanks for the warning about withdrawal.
Jane
Posted by Craig Allen on February 23, 2003, at 8:41:27
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!, posted by zenclear on February 22, 2003, at 21:52:29
withdrawal update: i'm still struggling. i'm sleeping like 14 hours per day, constantly tired. my mood is still odd; sad, withdrawn, just feeling out of it. i'm hoping this will lift soon. by the way, i'm on 225mg of effexor and i started on selegiline, 5mg twice per day, on tuesday. still waiting for my head to clear from the adderall.
Posted by MaTurtle on December 16, 2003, at 17:36:07
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP! » zenclear, posted by Craig Allen on February 23, 2003, at 8:41:27
I've quit adderall cold turkey with no problem... I know you probobly have gotten better becasue your last post was in feb... but to anyone who is experiencing withdrawl from adderall mabye this can help ---> After I stopped adderall I just made myself a cup of Yerba Mate tea mixed with some chamomile, and I was fine, but I am only 21 so maybe that has something to do with it... also make sure you eat 3 good meals, I think that can also help alot. Yerba Mate is great if not overdone... so maybe give it a try, sometimes yerba will give me outstanding concentration and it's never overstimulating... I hope this is of help to anyone who comes to this thread looking for help with adderall withdrawl... - love to ya all
Posted by Count Chocula on February 13, 2004, at 16:00:29
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!, posted by MaTurtle on December 16, 2003, at 17:36:07
You need not suffer anymore friend, I have been despising adderall withdrawal for about 4 years now. Alas, the weirdest drug in the world i have figured out. All I did was study the ill effects on me and how to counteract them every time I took it. Now I never feel the pain.
N E WAY #1 best cure= non-strenuous aerobic exercise with effective breathing always works. You barely even remember you take adderall after working out.
#1/2 best cure= b12--awesome healthy supplement. I take 1000 mcg timed release--rest of the b vitamins are a good idea too.
#1/2/3 best cure= vitamin E. good for everything.
#1/2/3/4 best cure= vitamin C. It can cause more pain though because it acidifies stuff and causes you to eliminate amphetamine quicker causing more of a plateau of pain you jump from.
#2 best cure=550 mg of naproxen sodium (Aleve). This works wonders for that aftermath of impending doom and unbound fear you get from withdrawal. I now take this dose every 6 hours on days when i take adderall. Almost equal to exercise.
#3 best cure= L glutamine. This helps relax you a lot but is expensive.
#4 best cure= ginko biloba--Pharmation brand--Helps out when you feel like you are about to die from anxiety and the whole left side of your body's circulatory system cramps up.
#5 best cure= ginseng--Pharmation brand--seems to regulate you into your normal state of mind instead of the dopamine hungry adderall psychosis state of mind. Seems to raise blood pressure a little though, just be careful.
#6 best cure= cayenne pepper-1200 mg 40000 heat unit. I didnt think it would do anything for me when I first tried it, but it relaxes you, helps you breathe, helps with circulation, gives you your saliva back, and inhibits the bacteria that causes acid reflux (due to skipping all those meals)
#7 best cure=garlic with high allicin yield (enteric coated to absorb in the intestine). Helps out with circulation.
#8 best cure= pynogenol and grape seed extracts (both have same active antioxidants). I recently started taking these sups and they seem to help with circulation, heartaches, and headaches but the quality supplements are aggrivatingly expensive.
#9 best cure= protein shake just to return energy to body and mind
#10 best cure= remember everything is okay and nothing is the end of the world. don't be afraid of the adderall. i dont want to take it before hand, but after i do take it i never regret it (except when I am around a bunch of people...this situation seems to have the power to freak me out).
P.S. remember to eat healthy food at least a little bit throughout the day
Posted by Mid-Life Crisis on February 13, 2004, at 22:16:52
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!, posted by Count Chocula on February 13, 2004, at 16:00:29
Count Chocula, I'm just curious. Why are you taking the Adderall?? If it's for ADD, have you considered trying anything else?
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 16, 2004, at 20:36:27
In reply to Re: Adderall Withdrawal - I'm In Bad Shape - HELP!, posted by Count Chocula on February 13, 2004, at 16:00:29
> #1/2 best cure= b12--awesome healthy supplement...
I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding alternative treatments to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040110/msgs/314319.html
Bob
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