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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by FredPotter on February 17, 2003, at 16:03:53
So long as blood tests show TSH and T4 to be within the lab's normal range, most doctors, including mine, will not consider further testing. However low thyroid function can still be the culprit of your depression, or so I've read. My doc's not having a bar of it however.
I take my under-arm (basal) temperature every morning and if on average it's below 36.5 deg C then hyperthyroidism is likely. Sure enough mine is.
The reasoning is like that of insulin resistance in type II diabetes, One wouldn't dream of measuring the insulin level in the blood (it may be higher than normal of course), but the glucose level. In the same way we shouldn't just measure T4 and TSH as we may be thyroxin resistant.
Any thoughts?
Posted by bozeman on February 17, 2003, at 19:03:09
In reply to Hypothyroidism, posted by FredPotter on February 17, 2003, at 16:03:53
> So long as blood tests show TSH and T4 to be within the lab's normal range, most doctors, including mine, will not consider further testing. However low thyroid function can still be the culprit of your depression, or so I've read. My doc's not having a bar of it however.
>
> I take my under-arm (basal) temperature every morning and if on average it's below 36.5 deg C then hyperthyroidism is likely. Sure enough mine is.
>
> The reasoning is like that of insulin resistance in type II diabetes, One wouldn't dream of measuring the insulin level in the blood (it may be higher than normal of course), but the glucose level. In the same way we shouldn't just measure T4 and TSH as we may be thyroxin resistant.
>
> Any thoughts?You're describing me. Basal temperature low, blood levels "normal", albeit low normal. Fortunately my doc is one of the younger and more "liberal" variety who believes in the "thyroxin resistance, insulin resistance etc." school of thought. I have the Wilson's Syndrome variety, apparently, and supplemental natural T3 as stated in the following article made all the difference in the world!. See below:
http://www.stenlake.com.au/showdocumentpf.asp?DocumentID=134
A couple of brief quotes from this article:
In the thyroid the ratio of T4 to T3 is 75% T4 to 25% T3.
T4 is converted to T3 in the thyroid and other tissues in the body.
"T3 is the active form of all cells and tissues and is more essential than T4. Hypothyroid appears when T4 is not converting to T3. In hypothyroid the symptoms appear even though there is an excess of T4 and normal TSH."
" . . .quite often hypothyroidism goes undiagnosed as the symptoms although profound to the individual are vague and are often ignored, particularly so if the blood tests come back normal. This is where integrated medicine is essential, as the doctor must look further the diagnostic blood levels. Symptoms of low thyroid function must be used as a diagnostic tool. Not only must T4 levels be taken but also TSH, for this alone may indicate subclinical hypothyroidism. "
"WILSONS SYNDROME Although the lab results appear normal the patient exhibits many hypothyroid symptoms. Wilsons syndrome is due to slowing of metabolism which is characterised by low body temperature, but with thyroid blood tests that seem in the normal range.
Causes: A lack of enzyme that converts T4 to T3. The decrease in T3 in the organ causes a slowing of the metabolism reflected by the drop in temperature.
Treatment: Gradual and decreasing doses of time released natural T3.
Based on individual patient requirements combinations of T4 and T3 may be compounded."Be sure to check out the list of symptoms at this site. Sound familiar? http://www.orthomed.com/wilsons.htm
E. Denis Wilson, M.D. "Wilson's Syndrome: The Miracle of Feeling Well", Cornerstone Publishing Company, Orlando, FL. Third Edition, 1996.
Maybe if you can collate some "documentation" from other respected MD's your doc will take this seriously. Good luck, and I hope this helps.
bozeman
Posted by FredPotter on February 17, 2003, at 19:10:08
In reply to Re: Hypothyroidism » FredPotter, posted by bozeman on February 17, 2003, at 19:03:09
Posted by FredPotter on February 17, 2003, at 19:43:20
In reply to Re: Hypothyroidism » FredPotter, posted by bozeman on February 17, 2003, at 19:03:09
Thank you Bozeman, you've made me feel vindicated and that always makes me feel better. And I'll definitely make my Dr read this information. How did you get hold of a T3 supplement? Take care
Fred
Posted by bozeman on February 17, 2003, at 21:22:35
In reply to Re: Hypothyroidism, posted by FredPotter on February 17, 2003, at 19:43:20
> Thank you Bozeman, you've made me feel vindicated and that always makes me feel better. And I'll definitely make my Dr read this information. How did you get hold of a T3 supplement? Take care
> FredMy doctor told me there are very few pharmacies that dispense it, as it is compounded individually (and not patented, since it's natural source) for each patient out of (whatever the raw materials are.) In the US I think there are only three pharmacies that dispense it. She called in my initial prescription for it and they mailed it to me ( I think it's Taylor's Pharmacy in Orlando, FL, USA.) I have to have refills shipped to me, and of course the pharmacy is OON (out of network) so the HMO laughs at it, so I pay for it myself.
It's out there, but not so easy to find. I feel lucky my doctor knew what to do and where to get what I needed.
Some other links you might find useful:
http://www.naturalhormones.com/selenium.iodine.html
http://www.thyroid-info.com/topdrs/index.htm
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/shames-stable.htm
http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa020702a.htmGood luck to you, Fred.
bozeman
Posted by sl on February 18, 2003, at 8:56:20
In reply to Re: Hypothyroidism » FredPotter, posted by bozeman on February 17, 2003, at 19:03:09
> Be sure to check out the list of symptoms at this site. Sound familiar? http://www.orthomed.com/wilsons.htm
Wow. Yeah. Some of them seem a little too general ("lack of coordination") but still there's a striking correlation between the list and me.
"If your temperature averages a few 10ths of a degree below 98.6F., and you have several of the above symptoms, you have Wilson's Syndrome. "*LoL* I remember from when I donated plasma, my temperature averages more like 97F.
However, until that syndrome gets more exposure and/or I get insurance, it'll have to wait.Any dietary changes, or natural (read: otc) supplements to be had?
Thanks!
sl
Posted by noa on February 18, 2003, at 10:19:34
In reply to Re: Hypothyroidism, posted by sl on February 18, 2003, at 8:56:20
Yes, I believe that hypothyroidism is underdiagnosed because of what authors Richard and Karilee Shames ("Thyroid Power: 10 Steps to Total Health")call the "tyranny of the test", by which they mean the overreliance by many doctors on one test (TSH) to rule hypothyroidism, and even the overreliance on the TSH and the T4, and other tests, with disregard for clinical assessment.
Two other good books to read: "The Thyroid Solution" by Dr. R. Arem, and "Living Well with Hypothyroidism" by Mary Shomon.
BTW, see the "thyroid and depression" folder at PB tips (yahoo), linked at the top of this main Babble page. Feel free to add resouces to it, too!!
Mary Shomon's site was so helpful to me--see about.com hypothyroidism page (link in the thyroid and depression folder). She even has a page where readers recommend doctors. That is how I found my wonderful endocrinologist who diagnosed the hypothyroidism, and got me started on appropriate treatment (I had been undertreated before--pdoc had dxed "subclinical" hypothyroidism and prescribed synthroid and cytomel as an augmentor to my AD meds.). I only started recovering from the depression after the hypothyroidism was addressed agressively.
BTW, I take both Synthroid (T4) and Cytomel, which is T3. Some people like the combined T3 and T4. I think there is now a synthetic T3/T4 combo, but there is also Armour Thyroid, which is dried animal thyroid and contains both T3 and T4.
Posted by FredPotter on February 18, 2003, at 20:47:53
In reply to Re: Hypothyroidism, posted by noa on February 18, 2003, at 10:19:34
I notice Wilson is given a rough ride on QuackWatch
Posted by bozeman on February 18, 2003, at 21:03:49
In reply to Re: Hypothyroidism, posted by sl on February 18, 2003, at 8:56:20
> "If your temperature averages a few 10ths of a degree below 98.6F., and you have several of the above symptoms, you have Wilson's Syndrome. "
>
> *LoL* I remember from when I donated plasma, my temperature averages more like 97F.
> However, until that syndrome gets more exposure and/or I get insurance, it'll have to wait.
>
> Any dietary changes, or natural (read: otc) supplements to be had?
>
> Thanks!
>
> slCheck out the links I embedded in the following article:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030214/msgs/201299.html
The first one seems to have OTC stuff.Good luck!!
bozeman
Posted by bozeman on February 18, 2003, at 21:14:42
In reply to Re: Hypothyroidism, posted by bozeman on February 18, 2003, at 21:03:49
This is the end of the thread.
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