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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by djmmm on February 5, 2003, at 8:22:19
In reply to Re: Who has STOPPED taking Nardil--djmmm, posted by Jack Smith on February 4, 2003, at 21:48:31
Not necessarily, I think I would recommend Nardil first, because of the easier dosage schedule (you can take your nardil dose once in the morning compared to 2 or 3x a day dosing with Parnate) also, Nardil, for me, wasn't as stimulating. I think I have a preference for Nardil because it was the first drug that ever really helped me...I feel a strange sense of loyality to it.
Not everyone experiences sexual problems with Nardil, so don't let that stop you from trying a med that could potentially change your life. FWIW, although irritating, I would take some sexual dysfunction over major depression ANY day.
Posted by ZeeZee on February 5, 2003, at 8:22:43
In reply to Who has STOPPED taking Nardil or Parnate?, posted by Jack Smith on February 4, 2003, at 17:59:41
I stopped because I was tired of scrutinizing everything I put in my mouth when I went to friends and relatives homes or restaurants. Plus the ignorance of other docs about these med's is astounding - you have to put up with doc's not knowing how to treat you for other things and then discouraging you from using it. Whe I had a h/t crisis and the EMT's came to my house to take me to the hospital, they didn't understand what my problem was. Although my neighbor, a RN, and both me and my husband repeated it to them several times. They wanted to treat me for an allergic reaction to an ingested food and inject me with adrenalin, or whatever it is they use!
I feel however, that both drugs are very worthwhile and had I not used them I would never believe that a drug could truly treat my problem. They have been the standard by which I've held all other med's and none have measured up - yet.
Getting off of them wasn't so terrible for me, however I do not suffer from depression. I took myself off of it (no doctor involved) and did it slowly over the course of a few weeks. It did cause nightmares and depression, however I never missed a day of work and continued about my life.
I found Parnate was just as effective as Nardil with few if any negative side effects, most of the s/e's were quite positive.
Good Luck
Posted by djmmm on February 5, 2003, at 8:28:29
In reply to Re: Who has STOPPED taking Nardil or Parnate? » djmmm, posted by ace on February 4, 2003, at 22:26:14
I've been on Parnate since the last week of November. The only noticable difference is mild stimulation and the fact that I have NO sexual problems....and that I have to take it 2x a day...other than that, I have noticed that I dont need to take inderal to control a mild familial tremor in my hand, maybe the Nardil exacerbated it?
Posted by sjb on February 5, 2003, at 9:21:09
In reply to Re: Who has STOPPED taking Nardil or Parnate?, posted by likelife on February 5, 2003, at 1:26:49
I had the weight gain, too, but not the acne. Had terrible insomnia the first week, was cold a lot and seem to have delayed reaction, perception problems (driving was scary). Also, had trouble working out at gym and was very sleepy everday at 4pm. Didn't have any problems with the food restrictions, however, and cheated like mad.
Posted by AffectsHer on February 5, 2003, at 10:26:49
In reply to Who has STOPPED taking Nardil or Parnate?, posted by Jack Smith on February 4, 2003, at 17:59:41
Not sure if you have disucssed Manerix/Moclobemide with your doctor. A newer MAOI (actually called a RIMA--reversible inhibitor of monoamine.) NO sexual dysfuntion and LESS chance of tyramine interaction/hypertensive crisis. I've heard lots of good things but we're all different and have equally infinite responses to these crazy meds.
I'm just starting it as I needed to get off Effexor and supposedly the MAOIs are grand things for my diagnosis: Atypical Depression.
A friend got off Parnate as it didn't seem to be doing the trick for him, with or without stimlants for his ADD...ironically he's now back on Effexor after many years.
Strange world, but I just wanted to throw my Manerix suggestion into the ring as it seems to be a much safer and tolerable/pleasant drug.
Good luck,
K.
Posted by Jack Smith on February 5, 2003, at 10:44:56
In reply to Re: Who has STOPPED taking Nardil or Parnate?, posted by likelife on February 5, 2003, at 1:26:49
> I've since been on a tricyclic for over a year and it's been like a wonder drug for me. Better than the MAOI and leagues ahead of the SSRI's.
>
> Best of luck to you, whatever you end up with...Which TCA?? Just curious, I don't think I am going to try TCA's as I have a major anxiety component to my depression and I have heard that TCA's don't help that too much.
Posted by Jack Smith on February 5, 2003, at 10:48:10
In reply to Re: Who has STOPPED taking Nardil or Parnate?, posted by AffectsHer on February 5, 2003, at 10:26:49
> Not sure if you have disucssed Manerix/Moclobemide with your doctor.
I would definitely consider Manerix except for one problem--it is not available in the US and probably never will be. . . .
Posted by Jack Smith on February 5, 2003, at 10:49:52
In reply to Who has STOPPED taking Nardil or Parnate?, posted by Jack Smith on February 4, 2003, at 17:59:41
I have heard that Parnate has higher incidences of inducing hypertensive crises? Does anyone know if that's true. Also, are there people out there who haven't had a h/t crisis at all on these drugs?
Jack
P.S. Thanks for all the responses.
Posted by ZeeZee on February 5, 2003, at 11:02:11
In reply to H/T crises--which is worse, P or N?, posted by Jack Smith on February 5, 2003, at 10:49:52
Yes, Parnate is the greater offender when it comes to hypertensive crisis and even spiking of blood pressure in the absence of a tyramine laden food source.
See: http://www.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/19.html
Posted by cosis on February 5, 2003, at 12:42:45
In reply to H/T crises--which is worse, P or N?, posted by Jack Smith on February 5, 2003, at 10:49:52
> I have heard that Parnate has higher incidences of inducing hypertensive crises? Does anyone know if that's true. Also, are there people out there who haven't had a h/t crisis at all on these drugs?
>
> Jack
>
> P.S. Thanks for all the responses.
Many people do not have H/T crisis while using MAO's. Much information on the internet and in books will tell you it is rare aslong as you stick to the diet (which isn't hard).Fortunately when I have cheated the diet a few times I never had an episode or headache. Your doctor can prescribe you a pill to lower your blood pressure if you ever did have a crisis. I am going to ask mine about it next time I visit him.
good luck
Posted by djmmm on February 5, 2003, at 13:14:30
In reply to H/T crises--which is worse, P or N?, posted by Jack Smith on February 5, 2003, at 10:49:52
> I have heard that Parnate has higher incidences of inducing hypertensive crises? Does anyone know if that's true. Also, are there people out there who haven't had a h/t crisis at all on these drugs?
>
> Jack
>
> P.S. Thanks for all the responses.Actually, Phenelzine (Nardil) has a slightly higher rate of hypertensive crisis, but Parnate, on average, causes more hypertension than Nardil(go figure)... I have *never* had a Hypertensive Reaction to any food, alcohol, or medication (pseudofed, nasal sprays, etc)...and Ive been taking a MAOI for about 3 years.
Posted by kara lynne on February 5, 2003, at 13:34:34
In reply to Manerix--AffectsHer, posted by Jack Smith on February 5, 2003, at 10:48:10
Of course everyone is different, but you might want to read a few posts from people who have tried Moclobemide/Manerix before you try it (it seems to be pretty easy to get in that way I'm not supposed to talk about). Last time I saw my doctor he said there might just be a good reason for it not becoming legal in the US; they're finding it just isn't as effective as the classic MAOI's. There are posts right now from someone having a helluva time coming off the stuff. Maybe it works for some, but I really didn't like it at all.
Posted by smslade1 on February 5, 2003, at 23:34:01
In reply to Re: H/T crises--which is worse, P or N?, posted by djmmm on February 5, 2003, at 13:14:30
My mother has been on Nardil for years and has never had a hypertensive crisis. She is careful about which foods she eats, but not obsessively careful. She has strayed from the diet, but has not had any problems.
She does need major surgery coming up and has to go off of it. A psychiatrist prescribed Lithium while she is weaning herself off Nardil. She ended up showing symptoms of Serotonin Syndrome. Does anyone know anything about this?
Posted by cybercafe on February 6, 2003, at 0:15:57
In reply to Re: Who has STOPPED taking Parnate--cybercaffe, posted by Jack Smith on February 4, 2003, at 20:42:21
> Had you tried nardil before it? What were your parnate side effects. I am still deciding between the two.
my doc said he didnt prescribe nardil cause of the side effects
parnate gave me increased energy, decreased appetite, increased libido, increased concentration and relieved my depression
shit, i'm starting to regret switching to ritalin :(
damn this rebound depression
Posted by ace on February 6, 2003, at 0:17:37
In reply to Re: H/T crises--which is worse, P or N?, posted by djmmm on February 5, 2003, at 13:14:30
> > I have heard that Parnate has higher incidences of inducing hypertensive crises? Does anyone know if that's true. Also, are there people out there who haven't had a h/t crisis at all on these drugs?
> >
> > Jack
> >
> > P.S. Thanks for all the responses.
>
> Actually, Phenelzine (Nardil) has a slightly higher rate of hypertensive crisis, but Parnate, on average, causes more hypertension than Nardil(go figure)... I have *never* had a Hypertensive Reaction to any food, alcohol, or medication (pseudofed, nasal sprays, etc)...and Ive been taking a MAOI for about 3 years.Interesting....I have noticed spontaneous rises in my bp on Nardil without eating offending foods. Would THIS be less likely to happen on Tranylcypromine?
Posted by cybercafe on February 6, 2003, at 0:22:16
In reply to H/T crises--which is worse, P or N?, posted by Jack Smith on February 5, 2003, at 10:49:52
> I have heard that Parnate has higher incidences of inducing hypertensive crises? Does anyone know if that's true. Also, are there people out there who haven't had a h/t crisis at all on these drugs?
>
> Jack
>
> P.S. Thanks for all the responses.yes i hear parnate has a higher incidence of h/t crises
i never had one, and ate cheese from fast food restaurants all the time
Posted by likelife on February 6, 2003, at 0:25:00
In reply to Re: Who has STOPPED--like life, posted by Jack Smith on February 5, 2003, at 10:44:56
I take 200 mg/day desipramine, along with some ritalin for energy and trazodone for sleep. I'm not sure about TCA's and anxiety. For a little while I supplemented with klonopin, but found I was eventually able to anticipate the anxiety and ward it off w/o the klonopin (it was never a major concern for me).
Posted by Eilidh on February 6, 2003, at 5:15:13
In reply to Who has STOPPED taking Nardil or Parnate?, posted by Jack Smith on February 4, 2003, at 17:59:41
Hi,
I have been taking Nardil since November. After 4 months I have found the dose too high in that my mood level and motivation were great but that sense of having a "chemical high" was too great. Every thought had to be almost instantly acted upon - this was going to lead to difficulties at work etc. so I had to reduce the dosage. I reduced my daily dosage by I tablet. I was less motivated and felt my mood was flatter.
I increased my daily dose by 1/2 a tablet. I feel my mood is okay, but could be a little better. My level of motivation likewise.
I have never experienced"highs" so found the level achieved by another whole tablet quite anxiety provoking. I felt as if I may loose control of myself.
To achieve the mood level I achieved with the higher dose my next step is to try taking it on alternate days.I am not sure if I ought to take any on the intervening days or not.
I try to approach the side effects as seperate phases to be dealt with. Sleep disturbance on higher dose, chocolate desire on any dose,tremor on higher dose, excessive mood enhancement on higher dose, lack of effect on lower dose.
I would still prefer this ongoing trial to the debilitating levels of depression of the past 10 years despite trying all other groups of antidepressants.
I hope this helps towards your decision making.
Good luck
Eilidh.
Posted by kara lynne on February 6, 2003, at 14:16:12
In reply to Re: Who has STOPPED taking Nardil or Parnate? » Jack Smith, posted by Eilidh on February 6, 2003, at 5:15:13
Hi, sorry to hear about your setback with Nardil. Could you tell me what dose you started with, got up to eventually and how much you're taking now? I just started yesterday at 15mgs. twice a day. Already I can feel that strong chemical sensation that I'm just hoping subsides soon. Thank you.
Posted by Eilidh on February 6, 2003, at 16:27:33
In reply to Elidh/ Dosage Question, posted by kara lynne on February 6, 2003, at 14:16:12
Hi,
I started on 15mg per day. I was up to 45mg when my problems became uncomfortable.This was 8 weeks after commencement.
I'm currently taking 37.5mg daily, although this will have slight variations depending on how accurately I cut the tablets.I have been taking nardil for almost 16 weeks now.
I'm almost sure I require the 45mgs as I had absolutely no feelings of "could be better" on that dose. I do hope it was not due to being chemically driven and lacking insight re being "high". My close friends were aware of my anxieties and promised they would comment if they thought I was showing signs of being too high.(something I have never been). However, my own anxieties re feeling a little out of control caused me to take action before anyone said anything to me. They all said they didn't think there was any problem.On reflecton I maybe acted too quickly. maybe it was a phase which would have passed, but as I work in psychiatry I wasn't prepared to be observed as "high".I usually mamnge to hide my true level of mood unless it is so bad I have to be off sick.
I have to find a way of taking a large enough dose to achieve the mood and motivational benefits without the sensation of loosing self control.Hence my idea of alternate days etc.
Hope this is what you wanted to know.
Good luck.
Posted by Jack Smith on February 6, 2003, at 17:16:50
In reply to Re: Elidh/ Dosage Question, posted by Eilidh on February 6, 2003, at 16:38:23
Elidh, what other drugs had you tried before Nardil? Did you consider Parnate? DO you have any sexual side effects?
Posted by Eilidh on February 6, 2003, at 17:41:46
In reply to Re: Elidh/ Dosage Question, posted by Jack Smith on February 6, 2003, at 17:16:50
Hi,
To answer your question I have unfortunately tried every group of antidepressants over the years, sometimes more than one of each group.
Nardil is the only MAOI that I have tried as I have previusly avoided trying them.Foolish upon reflection as I could have had these benefits long ago.
Interesting that you should ask about the sexual side effects. As nardil has improved my mood level my libido has awoken. No evidence of side effects as yet in that area I'm pleased to say.
Eilidh.
Posted by Jack Smith on February 6, 2003, at 18:45:18
In reply to Re: Elidh/ Dosage Question » Jack Smith, posted by Eilidh on February 6, 2003, at 17:41:46
> Nardil is the only MAOI that I have tried as I have previusly avoided trying them.Foolish upon reflection as I could have had these benefits long ago.
So even with the problems, you are going to stick with it?
Posted by Eilidh on February 7, 2003, at 3:18:24
In reply to Re: Elidh/ Dosage Question, posted by Jack Smith on February 6, 2003, at 18:45:18
Hi Jack,
In the meantime I feel I have too much to gain to give up on Nardil just yet. After 10 or more years on a rollercoaster of short term improvement on other antidepressants, then having them fizzle out I am willing to persevere with Nardil. I have been at work continuously since commencing Nardil at the begining of November. This is a great achievement for me as prior to this I had at least 2-3 days off (sometimes more) every month for the last 3 or more years.
It is now 2 weeks since I began taking the 37.5mg, and I am tempted to take this until the end of February to observe my reaction rather than making a premature change. At that point I shall commence my alternate days regime if required. Although still unsure whether to have nil Nardil in between or stick with the 37.5mg one day and 45mg the next. I'll have to give this more thought and see how I aam feeling at end of February before making this decision.
This drug is helping to make my life more positive and productive than it has been for a long time. I'm currently taking the attitude that it is like having a friend who has behaviours which occaisionally frustrate me, but who is a valuable friend with more to offer than mild, occaisional frustration. We all bug our friend on the odd occaision over the years, but that doesn't mean we abandon eachother.
I'm going to give Nardil an opportunity to prove that it deserves to be a constant in my life. More harm than good and it is out!
This has been a lengthy answer but I hope it answers your question.
Eilidh.
Posted by Jack Smith on February 7, 2003, at 20:18:47
In reply to Re: Elidh/ Dosage Question » Jack Smith, posted by Eilidh on February 7, 2003, at 3:18:24
Ace, djmmm, cosis, others, your expertise is NEEDED immediately to help others, please go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/maois/
and sign up! There are many who need info and you guys know a lot!!!
This is the end of the thread.
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