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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by denise528 on January 25, 2003, at 13:05:07
Has anyone here had a seizure on heavy doses of antidepressants when they've never before had a seizure in their life? I just wondered what the odds are of having them on high dose medication.
I took 300mg Tricyclic, 40mg of Sertraline and 10mg of Zyprexa one night, the next day my speech was really slurred and I had a seizure at work. Now my psychiatrist is really cautious about what he prescribes even though I never had a seizure before in my life.
I found a place in the UK where they are doing TMS trials but I've been told I'm not eligible because of that one seizure. If and when TMS becomes a clinical service does that mean that anyone who has ever had a seizure won't be eligible?
Denise
Posted by borderliner21 on January 25, 2003, at 13:14:25
In reply to ADs and Seizures, posted by denise528 on January 25, 2003, at 13:05:07
I had a seizure/convulsions before when I was on 30 mg of paxil, but I was doing street drugs at the time so it was either the interaction between the two or could have been the street drugs alone.
Posted by highanxiety on January 29, 2003, at 21:14:45
In reply to ADs and Seizures, posted by denise528 on January 25, 2003, at 13:05:07
I was diagnosed as having complex partial TLE after being on 75 mgs remeron for almost a year and a half. ADs can lower the seizure threshold. I have had these problems before on Nardil. I did not have the extent of the problems I encountered on a lower dose of Remeron. I imagine that the higher the dose, and the more ADs you take, that would make you more suseptible. Funny though, I read that TMS was being considered as a treatment for some kinds of refractory epilepsy. Perhaps you cuold be eligible for a TMS study if it was under a different diagnosis.
Posted by Ritch on January 30, 2003, at 0:33:07
In reply to Re: ADs and Seizures, posted by highanxiety on January 29, 2003, at 21:14:45
> I was diagnosed as having complex partial TLE after being on 75 mgs remeron for almost a year and a half. ADs can lower the seizure threshold. I have had these problems before on Nardil. I did not have the extent of the problems I encountered on a lower dose of Remeron. I imagine that the higher the dose, and the more ADs you take, that would make you more suseptible. Funny though, I read that TMS was being considered as a treatment for some kinds of refractory epilepsy. Perhaps you cuold be eligible for a TMS study if it was under a different diagnosis.
Hi, what type of symptoms were you experiencing with the seizures (if you don't mind sharing)? What was your diagnosis prior to the seizures? Did the "psych" diagnosis change after that discovery? thanks in advance....
Posted by highanxiety on January 30, 2003, at 7:43:40
In reply to Re: ADs and Seizures » highanxiety, posted by Ritch on January 30, 2003, at 0:33:07
Hi, what type of symptoms were you experiencing with the seizures (if you don't mind sharing)? What was your diagnosis prior to the seizures? Did the "psych" diagnosis change after that discovery? thanks in advance...
Hey Ritch,
What I was experiencing was an overwhelming sense of "sensory overload" - things like heat, lights, and odors (sometimes even smelling odors that others didnt smell) or even unpleasant thoughts,would set off a this rising feeling in my chest (almost like nausea), then ticcing (pinching, pulling at clothes,etc.), then panic. Often I'd have auras a few minutes before a whopper, like I'm outside my body. Other times I'd get an overwhelming sense that this is the first time I've ever experienced this, despite this happening sometimes several times a day. My diagnosis prior to TLE was panic disorder/tic disorder. My neuro now thinks the ticcing is really automatisms from the TLE. My psych now wants to only perscribe (go along with ) what the neuro wants me to try - so the focus has been changed to weaning me off the remeron and putting me on a low dose of lexapro with an anti-convulsant. I do have to say that I've had these symptoms for 25 years (ugh!) but they were made much worse when I went way up on remeron.
I would strongly suggest that anyone who is experiencing unusual symptoms to get a sleep-deprived EEG. Especially if taking ADs brings out these symptoms or exacerabates them. Epilepsy does not have to mean the classic grand mal stuff (although I had one of those too!).This diagnosis fully explains what I've been going through. Knowing whats really going on has brought me a great deal of relief. Thanks for asking!
Posted by Ritch on January 30, 2003, at 12:04:30
In reply to Re: ADs and Seizures, posted by highanxiety on January 30, 2003, at 7:43:40
> Hey Ritch,
>
> What I was experiencing was an overwhelming sense of "sensory overload" - things like heat, lights, and odors (sometimes even smelling odors that others didnt smell) or even unpleasant thoughts,would set off a this rising feeling in my chest (almost like nausea), then ticcing (pinching, pulling at clothes,etc.), then panic. Often I'd have auras a few minutes before a whopper, like I'm outside my body. Other times I'd get an overwhelming sense that this is the first time I've ever experienced this, despite this happening sometimes several times a day. My diagnosis prior to TLE was panic disorder/tic disorder. My neuro now thinks the ticcing is really automatisms from the TLE. My psych now wants to only perscribe (go along with ) what the neuro wants me to try - so the focus has been changed to weaning me off the remeron and putting me on a low dose of lexapro with an anti-convulsant. I do have to say that I've had these symptoms for 25 years (ugh!) but they were made much worse when I went way up on remeron.
>
> I would strongly suggest that anyone who is experiencing unusual symptoms to get a sleep-deprived EEG. Especially if taking ADs brings out these symptoms or exacerabates them. Epilepsy does not have to mean the classic grand mal stuff (although I had one of those too!).This diagnosis fully explains what I've been going through. Knowing whats really going on has brought me a great deal of relief. Thanks for asking!That is really interesting. I have had panic attacks in the past and there always is an accompanying wave of nausea just prior to the attack. When I was taking much higher doses of Effexor (I am talking 25-37.5mg here), I would smell cheeseburgers, rotting mice, gas leaking, weird stuff that others couldn't smell. There was one incident where a rock music video came on TV and there was this illustration of different colored wheels that looked like some kind of fruit cereal or something and as soon as I saw it I could *taste* the cereal just like it was right there. I also get this unusual autonomic hyperactivity after I eat a meal (heart rate and BP rise a bunch with little change in blood sugar). I also have experienced ticcing on stims at very low doses. Adderall used to make me sip water when it was peaking (even though my mouth wasn't dry). Focalin had me swallowing air and burping (and I couldn't control it). When I started taking Trileptal recently I noticed that food tastes and smells seemed "normal" or "correct" tasting or smelling. Hmm. Weird. Thanks for responding.
Posted by highanxiety on January 30, 2003, at 18:25:35
In reply to Re: ADs and Seizures » highanxiety, posted by Ritch on January 30, 2003, at 12:04:30
Wow! IMHO you'd be a good candidate for a sleep-deprived EEG, it sounds so similar. If at some point you feel those experiences are getting worse (like if you got them again upping a med), it may help your dr. to know what could really be going on...
Posted by jodie on January 30, 2003, at 18:42:34
In reply to Re: ADs and Seizures » highanxiety, posted by Ritch on January 30, 2003, at 12:04:30
When I was about 12, I started having really strange sensations. I would, out of the clear blue taste celery. Even though I hadn't eaten any. I would start to feel sick to my stomach, and get a headache. Shortly after I would have this really intense feeling of de' javu or jamais vu (the oposite of deja vu...not sure if I spelled it correctly though). I was still somewhat aware of my surroundings, but would also have a strong feeling of depersonalization. I felt like I was outside of my body. I felt like I was in a dream. Things, and voices would become distorted. When I had these "episodes" I would have several a day, for maybe a week. I had no idea what was wrong with me. I somehow kept it from my parents. Even when I thought about telling them, I wouldn't because I didn't know how to explain it. Being 12 years old, I just thought I was going insane, and if I told anyone, I would end up in a mental hospital for life.
I continued to have these "episodes" all through my teen years. Sometimes I would go months without having problems, but it always returned. I got married young, at 18, had a baby shortly after. The day after I gave birth I had a grand mal seizure. The neurologist started asking me questions about symptoms, like deja vu, strange taste, smells, or feeling like I was in a dream like state. I explained everything to him. They did plenty of test, including an EEG. They finally diagnosed me with TLE. I was upset but relieved that I finally knew what in the heck was wrong with me. They started me out on Dilantin. I was on that for 3 years, and hated every minute of it. The side effects were horrible. I finally weaned myself off the dilantin. I was 23, when I did this. I was seizure free, never a problem, until a few months ago, I started having the intense deja vu feelings again. Then a little over a month ago, I went to bed and woke up the next morning in an ambulance. My fiance found me having a grand mal seizure.
I was taking clonazepam as needed before the seizure. During a stressful time, I took it for about a month straight, then stopped, about 2 days later is when I had the seizure. The Dr. said it was from stopping the klonopin suddenly. I told the ER staff I was not going back on an anti-seizure med, like dilantin, or depakote. So he gave me a prescription for more klonopin, which can control seizures, and told me to take one every day. I haven't had any strange feelings, or seizures since. It is always a constant worry for me though. TLE can be hell. It is the strangest feeling!!!
I am now diagnosed as having ADD, I tried Strattera, but didn't work for me (thats a long story in itself). Now my pdoc is talking about starting me on Adderall. I am a little afraid it may cause seizures. I don't know.
Anyway just thought I would tell everyone my horrible experiences with TLE.
Take care
Jodie
Posted by Ritch on January 30, 2003, at 23:40:16
In reply to Re: ADs and Seizures Ritch, posted by highanxiety on January 30, 2003, at 18:25:35
> Wow! IMHO you'd be a good candidate for a sleep-deprived EEG, it sounds so similar. If at some point you feel those experiences are getting worse (like if you got them again upping a med), it may help your dr. to know what could really be going on...
>
>Thanks again for responding. A sleep-deprived EEG was the next thing I was going to have to undergo. But the neuro I was seeing was doing all of this experimental BEAM EEG analysis or whatever, and I thought it was just a little quacky too me. My insurance paid sh*t with all of the standard tests and I got whacked with nearly two grand in bills for one afternoon of tests. So, I was leary and didn't want to go for all of the other tests he was talking about. The next was the 24-hr. sleep deprived-EEG, then after that an MRI. All I could see in my mind was swiping my credit card at the hospital :0 . OTOH, he retired and forgave what was left on my account at the time.... so who knows? The 24-hr EEG is where you have to go in and get all of the electrodes stuck on and you wear a recorder and write in a journal right? They told me I could wear a ballcap to cover up most of the wiring. In my mind I was thinking about having to take off work and what neighbors would think about this dude with wires coming out of his head pulling up in the driveway! ...I get these symptoms the most with antidepressant usage and when I get hypomanic. Do you ever get weird superstitious feelings about events that happen? Like you get the feeling that you are clairvoyant and can predict stuff? Actually, I think getting "wired-up" and doing a sleep study as well might be a good thing, too. Thanks for sharing!
Posted by Ritch on January 30, 2003, at 23:55:22
In reply to Re:TLE, posted by jodie on January 30, 2003, at 18:42:34
> When I was about 12, I started having really strange sensations. I would, out of the clear blue taste celery. Even though I hadn't eaten any. I would start to feel sick to my stomach, and get a headache. Shortly after I would have this really intense feeling of de' javu or jamais vu (the oposite of deja vu...not sure if I spelled it correctly though). I was still somewhat aware of my surroundings, but would also have a strong feeling of depersonalization. I felt like I was outside of my body. I felt like I was in a dream. Things, and voices would become distorted. When I had these "episodes" I would have several a day, for maybe a week. I had no idea what was wrong with me. I somehow kept it from my parents. Even when I thought about telling them, I wouldn't because I didn't know how to explain it. Being 12 years old, I just thought I was going insane, and if I told anyone, I would end up in a mental hospital for life.
>
> I continued to have these "episodes" all through my teen years. Sometimes I would go months without having problems, but it always returned. I got married young, at 18, had a baby shortly after. The day after I gave birth I had a grand mal seizure. The neurologist started asking me questions about symptoms, like deja vu, strange taste, smells, or feeling like I was in a dream like state. I explained everything to him. They did plenty of test, including an EEG. They finally diagnosed me with TLE. I was upset but relieved that I finally knew what in the heck was wrong with me. They started me out on Dilantin. I was on that for 3 years, and hated every minute of it. The side effects were horrible. I finally weaned myself off the dilantin. I was 23, when I did this. I was seizure free, never a problem, until a few months ago, I started having the intense deja vu feelings again. Then a little over a month ago, I went to bed and woke up the next morning in an ambulance. My fiance found me having a grand mal seizure.
>
> I was taking clonazepam as needed before the seizure. During a stressful time, I took it for about a month straight, then stopped, about 2 days later is when I had the seizure. The Dr. said it was from stopping the klonopin suddenly. I told the ER staff I was not going back on an anti-seizure med, like dilantin, or depakote. So he gave me a prescription for more klonopin, which can control seizures, and told me to take one every day. I haven't had any strange feelings, or seizures since. It is always a constant worry for me though. TLE can be hell. It is the strangest feeling!!!
>
> I am now diagnosed as having ADD, I tried Strattera, but didn't work for me (thats a long story in itself). Now my pdoc is talking about starting me on Adderall. I am a little afraid it may cause seizures. I don't know.
>
> Anyway just thought I would tell everyone my horrible experiences with TLE.
>
> Take care
>
> JodieHi, the most pronounced depersonalization episodes were when I was an adolescent. I don't know why, but I would daydream about flying and would feel like my body was being lifted up above the house/neighborhood I lived in and I would "float" around all over and then land at times and then take off again. That is strange, but my Mom (who had generalized seizures only in her sleep), told me that she always had these sensations of flying just before she lost consciousness and went to sleep and had a seizure. She was on high-dose Dilantin+phenobarbitol for many years. The birth thing is interesting. She had her first (observable) seizure after the birth of my older brother, and did't have any seizures (that she was aware of) after I was born ten years later. So, clonazepam is controlling things for you without other meds? That is nice to hear. Thanks for sharing!
Posted by highanxiety on January 31, 2003, at 8:34:47
In reply to Re:TLE » jodie, posted by Ritch on January 30, 2003, at 23:55:22
Do you ever get weird superstitious feelings about events that happen? Like you get the feeling that you are clairvoyant and can predict stuff?
Have almost all times experienced strong jemais vu right before..which always amazed me since I can too have them several times a day! My surrounded become very foreign to me...The clairvoyant sense and superstitiuous feelings...that is very much a part of the TLE experience. The thing with the sleep-deprived EEG and the 24 hour one, they'll be much more likely to capture abnormal activity. And since your mother experienced seizures..I definitely think you're on to something. Best of luck!
Posted by highanxiety on January 31, 2003, at 8:43:14
In reply to Re:TLE, posted by jodie on January 30, 2003, at 18:42:34
Mine started at 13 ..biking up a hill, the way the sun hit my face, the same automatisms, the same depersonalization, the jemais vu, I had then, I still have now... "what a long, strange trip it's been!"
Posted by jodie on January 31, 2003, at 12:04:59
In reply to Re:TLE » jodie, posted by Ritch on January 30, 2003, at 23:55:22
Yes, clonazepam seems to be working for now. But who knows if I wasn't taking it, I may not be having any seizures right now anyway. I'll just have to wait and see, if I do have a "strange" feeling, maybe I'll have to go on something else.
I used to have the strangest feelings at night when laying in bed. I would having racing thoughts, thats the only way I can describe it. I would feel like my brain was flying around( I know that sounds kind of silly), but it can be hard explaining TLE symptoms. I would have seriouse size distortion. I felt I would be laying there, and my body was shrinking. My surroundings felt much bigger around me, than they truely were.
That is strange that I had the same seizure experience (speaking of the birth) as your mother!!!
It is such a strange seizure disorder. I don't have schizophrenia, but I can almost understand it!!! There have been many people who were diagnosed with schizophrenia, and actually had TLE. I suppose one could have both. I never tried many street drugs like LSD, but with the hallucinations I was having, and sometimes still have, I never needed to. :-)
Take care!!!
Jodie
Posted by jodie on January 31, 2003, at 12:11:23
In reply to Re:TLE Jodie, posted by highanxiety on January 31, 2003, at 8:43:14
> Mine started at 13 ..biking up a hill, the way the sun hit my face, the same automatisms, the same depersonalization, the jemais vu, I had then, I still have now... "what a long, strange trip it's been!"
>
Yes, like I was explaining to Ritch, I have had some strange experiences too. I was telling him, I never had a need to try LSD!!Just imagine, if you never experienced any of this, didn't have TLE, how hard it would be to understand TLE.
Take care,Jodie
Posted by jodie on January 31, 2003, at 12:14:00
In reply to Re:TLE Jodie, posted by jodie on January 31, 2003, at 12:11:23
Sorry, my last message was supposed to be directed to you, not myself :-)
Posted by Ritch on January 31, 2003, at 21:11:18
In reply to Re:TLE-Ritch, posted by jodie on January 31, 2003, at 12:04:59
> Yes, clonazepam seems to be working for now. But who knows if I wasn't taking it, I may not be having any seizures right now anyway. I'll just have to wait and see, if I do have a "strange" feeling, maybe I'll have to go on something else.
>
> I used to have the strangest feelings at night when laying in bed. I would having racing thoughts, thats the only way I can describe it. I would feel like my brain was flying around( I know that sounds kind of silly), but it can be hard explaining TLE symptoms. I would have seriouse size distortion. I felt I would be laying there, and my body was shrinking. My surroundings felt much bigger around me, than they truely were.
>
> That is strange that I had the same seizure experience (speaking of the birth) as your mother!!!
>
> It is such a strange seizure disorder. I don't have schizophrenia, but I can almost understand it!!! There have been many people who were diagnosed with schizophrenia, and actually had TLE. I suppose one could have both. I never tried many street drugs like LSD, but with the hallucinations I was having, and sometimes still have, I never needed to. :-)
>
> Take care!!!
>
> JodieI've had the "scaley" thing happen too. The last time was when I tried lithium again a year or two ago. Everything seemed smaller. My car seemed like a 3/4 scale car and I also had been shrunk down. Like getting a new eyeglass prescription. I've had time scale distortions too. When I take any Wellbutrin it seems like time just slows to a crawl and nearly stops. I thought it was an anti-ADD effect but now I am not so sure. The weirdest scale things happened when I was 11 or 12 when the "flying-daydream" thing was the most intense. This time it seemed like everything was unusally immense. I could be sitting in a chair and it seemed like the other side of the room was a 100 foot away and everything was enormous. It would just be a "weirdness" that lasted for a short time and then go away. Just a question for either of you: Do you get any musical intrusions, or anything auditory that is weird?
Posted by highanxiety on January 31, 2003, at 21:50:09
In reply to Re:TLE-jodie or high anxiety, posted by Ritch on January 31, 2003, at 21:11:18
Do you get any musical intrusions, or anything auditory that is weird?
hi Ritch,
I sure do! I might have not mentioned that ambient noise is a biggy as far as setting me off..when there's a lot of it, from a lot of different areas, its almost as bad as the smell thing. What tips me off that I'm going into "the state" is sounds start becoming muffled, and I start not being able to differentiate between me and the sound,I start getting disoriented,things start changing shape,then BOOM! Thats the best I can describe it..had one the other day, was trying to read a paper in a busy coffee shop. Ugh. I don't have the musical hallucinations but I've also read that that and musical intrusions are can be very much a part of the TLE experience...(I may be wrong but that could mean s/th with the left temporal lobe, I believe the right is more the visual stuff). I read about one poor man who experienced partial seizures only when he heard elton john songs!
On another note, I have one funny experience I have to relate. Sometimes even disturbing thoughts can set off this TLE chain of events..I was in a grocery store, and I was eyeing some unusual food packages..I thought "hmm this stuff looks like something gourmet." I get up closer and I realize that they are actually varieties of polenta, packaged to look gourmet. Then it hit me.."They're grits, they're just grits!" Well even though I like "grits" or "polenta" something must have disturbed me because I turned into a ticcing coughing fiend! Just thought I'd relate that!
Posted by jodie on January 31, 2003, at 23:03:15
In reply to Re:TLE-jodie or high anxiety-Ritch, posted by highanxiety on January 31, 2003, at 21:50:09
I don't necessarily get the musical thing, but voices & songs on the radio will sound muffled. I know it can be a symptom though.
I had this strange experience once, I must have been 13 or 14. I was laying in bed trying to go to sleep. I started feeling sick to my stomach, and had a headache. I started to get the whole size distortion thing going on, and suddenly I felt like a cartoon duck!!! I am laughing right now, because I know how silly that sounds!!! I felt like I was laying in an enormous bed that kept growing,and I was a tiny little cartoon duck, that just kept shrinking. I've had some strange ones. I remember when I went through a phase where sometimes I would look at myself in a mirror, and it would set off the real strong deja vu thing, like when I was getting ready for school in the morning it would happen.
After having my grand mal seizure, I saw several neurologist. One actually witnessed me having one of my "epsisodes", he kept repeating my name. Finally I remember saying "what, why do you keep saying my name"? He asked if I felt anything, or remembered the last few minutes. I told him I started to get the depersonalization, and deja vu feeling, and sick to my stomach. He said I sat there for 2 min. and smacked and licked my lips, and then started laughing. I didn't remember any of that. That was so strange!
Ritch, you mentioned the man and having seizures when he listened to elton john (poor man, I love listening to elton). Some people have seizures from certain video games and cartoons. Have you heard of the kids show teletubbies? I guess a few kids had seizures while watching that. I was reading something on the net once, about TLE. I guess even certain pictures just hanging on a wall, or even smelling something can set off a seizure. I don't mean the smells you can get from having TLE, but real smells. Like maybe for example, everytime some woman smelled ketchup (catsup...thats so funny how you can find that spelled differently, just like donut) she would have a seizure. Weird!!!!! I guess it just goes to say that anything can set off a seizure.I have always had this sort of theory, that maybe I am not having seizures, but maybe I'm having flashbacks of a present, or future life (not that I necessarily believe in reincarnation, but I have a pretty open mind),or tapping into something beyond our ability to imagine, or prove. Maybe we are special, and its happening for a reason, who knows. Sorry, I'm just babbling again!!!
I was wondering, if we are going to keep this thread going, maybe we should take it over to psycho social babble, since we haven't been discussing meds very much anymore...just a thought!!
Jodie
Posted by highanxiety on February 1, 2003, at 6:30:11
In reply to Re:TLE-Ritch or high anxiety-Jodie, posted by jodie on January 31, 2003, at 23:03:15
I'll post my response on Psycho-social babble! seeya
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 1, 2003, at 23:13:07
In reply to Jodie and Ritch.., posted by highanxiety on February 1, 2003, at 6:30:11
> I'll post my response on Psycho-social babble!
Thanks! Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030201/msgs/36056.html
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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