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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ricardo on January 30, 2003, at 17:28:09
Hi!
I've always been impulsive and I have always (ever since I was a child) had this tendency to show my anger physically (not violence against other people, but by throwing objects against the wall and this kind of thing). Some people say that it's because I'm an Aries... In my struggle with depression, I've had some different kinds of tantrums... Especially, the ones related to self-deprecation, or self-humiliation. To be more precise, things like getting down on my knees, in tears, begging somebody to make love to me so I wouldn't feel rejected. It did happen once. I wish I could forget that! These are moments when I really thought as though I was losing control. When I first started on Paxil, I thought that I was more level, or as if there was elastic bed (I really don't know what you call that in English) keeping me from falling, or from going too low. I don't think I had one single breakdown while on it. However, I asked my doctor to put me off it, since the sexual side-effects had really been a problem for me, as well as it put me to sleep all day long. She substituted Wellbutrin. I was ecstatic when she put me on it. I would treat my depression, as well as lose weight, have more energy and all the rest of it. Right from the start, I had a big breakdown when having an argument with somebody. I was shocked at how violent that was (but, please, don't think that I threatened somebody's life or anything like that; what I did do was to hurt myself, by slapping my face real hard!) Now, I'm facing a relapse of my depression. This afternoon, I felt terrible and, once again, I had one of those breakdowns. This time, I did not express it physically. I kept it to myself, but the feeling was that I was exploding. I thought I was not going to survive that! I could only feel some relief when I started crying non-stop. By boyfriend left me alone and said he's tired of living with a "crazy" person like me. He said he's leaving me for good this time. Anyway, my question is, could it be the Wellbutrin that is causing these violent reactions. One thing is for sure: I'm not taking that pill tomorrow or on any of the following days, until my appointment with my pdoc on Wednesday. I'd love to know what your thoughts are... (and I feel terrible ashamed for having written this post...)
Cheers,
Ricardo
Posted by mikhail99 on January 30, 2003, at 18:19:00
In reply to Wellbutrin and tantrums, posted by ricardo on January 30, 2003, at 17:28:09
> Hi!
>
> I've always been impulsive and I have always (ever since I was a child) had this tendency to show my anger physically (not violence against other people, but by throwing objects against the wall and this kind of thing). Some people say that it's because I'm an Aries... In my struggle with depression, I've had some different kinds of tantrums... Especially, the ones related to self-deprecation, or self-humiliation. To be more precise, things like getting down on my knees, in tears, begging somebody to make love to me so I wouldn't feel rejected. It did happen once. I wish I could forget that! These are moments when I really thought as though I was losing control. When I first started on Paxil, I thought that I was more level, or as if there was elastic bed (I really don't know what you call that in English) keeping me from falling, or from going too low. I don't think I had one single breakdown while on it. However, I asked my doctor to put me off it, since the sexual side-effects had really been a problem for me, as well as it put me to sleep all day long. She substituted Wellbutrin. I was ecstatic when she put me on it. I would treat my depression, as well as lose weight, have more energy and all the rest of it. Right from the start, I had a big breakdown when having an argument with somebody. I was shocked at how violent that was (but, please, don't think that I threatened somebody's life or anything like that; what I did do was to hurt myself, by slapping my face real hard!) Now, I'm facing a relapse of my depression. This afternoon, I felt terrible and, once again, I had one of those breakdowns. This time, I did not express it physically. I kept it to myself, but the feeling was that I was exploding. I thought I was not going to survive that! I could only feel some relief when I started crying non-stop. By boyfriend left me alone and said he's tired of living with a "crazy" person like me. He said he's leaving me for good this time. Anyway, my question is, could it be the Wellbutrin that is causing these violent reactions. One thing is for sure: I'm not taking that pill tomorrow or on any of the following days, until my appointment with my pdoc on Wednesday. I'd love to know what your thoughts are... (and I feel terrible ashamed for having written this post...)
>
> Cheers,
> RicardoRicardo, PLEASE don't feel ashamed about having written that post!! We all have our awful, lowest moments and it's very brave of you to share them here. I took 150 mg of wellbutrin 2x a day and it made me SO irritable, I couldn't stand myself or anyone else so my pdoc put me on 100 mg 2x a day and my anger and irritability decreased quite a bit. I'm a bit disappointed with the dose because I'm not as alert as I was on the higher dose but I figured I couldn't go around chewing everyone's ass ALL the time! :-)
Anyway, I'm curious what your dose is? And just be cautious about stopping the medication. Can you call your doctor before your appointment and let them know what's going on?Please take care and hang in there, they may just need to lower your dose.
Mik
Posted by ricardo on January 30, 2003, at 18:52:17
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and tantrums » ricardo, posted by mikhail99 on January 30, 2003, at 18:19:00
Thanks a lot for your post! Since it's just 5 more days until my appointment, I think it's going to be wiser if I keep taking it until then. I can't call my doctor, because on Wednesday I'm seeing a new one. The problem with my old doctor is that she always sounded so vague about everything I asked... Not to mention a couple of things she said that sounded like her not knowing her job very well. For example, she was suprised that Paxil had had a sedating effect on me. It seems to be like this for everyone who's tried it! So, I found a new name on my insurance's pdoc's directory and made an appointment. As for the dosage, this is one more thing that I think she didn't do right with me. She put me on a 150mg dosage once a day for 2 months. Most people tend to take that dosage only for a week or two, as far as I've read. She gave me two prescriptions because I was going to be away on vacation for quite a long time, and my insurance determines that you can have just one appointment a month with the same doctor, which means that I couldn't go back there before my trip. The thing is, I think she should have instructed me on increasing the dosage after a certain time... Well, thanks for replying so promptly!
Cheers,
Ric
Posted by jodie on January 30, 2003, at 19:05:04
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and tantrums » ricardo, posted by mikhail99 on January 30, 2003, at 18:19:00
Hi, I have taken wellbutrin in the past, actually for almost a year. I was very irritable on it. My pdoc put me on klonopin at the time to help. It did. Maybe something like that would help you.
I get very aggitated, when I get mad, I will pace the floors, fast, and scream, and feel like pulling my hair out. I will scream at my fiance and tell him that I'm moving out. I will start throwing my clothes out of the closet, and drawers. I've been like this for years. Lucky my fiance is supportive about these things, but he can only tolerate so much. He has told me he can't keep putting up with me, and that I'm crazy. He says this after I've verbally abused him. I go into these rages often, I used to more, before I started Klonopin.
Do not feel ashamed for posting what you did. You should read some of my posts. After I posted them, I felt so stupid. But then, after I would get a reply, it was always supportive. I'm happy I found this site, it's a great place to vent, and there are very caring people here. There is always someone here who can relate to the problem.
Mik is right, be cautious about going off your med, and if you can,call your doc!!!
Stay strong, keep posting here!!!!!
Jodie
Posted by viridis on January 30, 2003, at 21:29:37
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and tantrums, posted by jodie on January 30, 2003, at 19:05:04
Wellbutrin works well for some people, but can increase anxiety and cause anger in others. That's how I reacted, along with some additional strange side effects. I rarely get angry, but Wellbutrin made me edgy, nervous, and irritable. I tried it for 8 weeks, but since the side effects didn't resolve, I discontinued it and have since found a better set of meds for anxiety/depression/ADD.
Posted by jane d on January 31, 2003, at 14:22:14
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and tantrums, posted by ricardo on January 30, 2003, at 18:52:17
Ric,
You don't say how long ago you changed to the Wellbutrin. I'm guessing from what you say about the insurance that it was about 2 months ago. That's about the right time frame for your depression to be coming back if the Wellbutrin is not working for you. When I discontinued an SSRI (Prozac in my case instead of Paxil) that's about how long it took for me to get depressed again. I found that the Prozac seemed to work especially well on the kind of rages you describe and my understanding is that all the SSRIs are alike in that way. Sometimes taking an SSRI and Wellbutrin eliminates the sexual side effects of the SSRI. For me the combination is also a better antidepressant than either one alone.
I take 300 mg a day of Wellbutrin but I don't think 150 is that uncommon. Since you weren't going to be around to follow up with her I don't blame your doctor for not wanting to raise the dose. And since it looks like the Wellbutrin is not good for you that was probably a good thing. If you can't wait until next week for any reason, if either your depression or your anger gets completely out of your control, then call back the first doctor. You are still her responsibility until you see the new doctor. And when you do see the new doctor make sure that you can call in between appointments if you need to. One month is too long to wait if you are having problems with a new medication.
A final note. I also found that Wellbutrin made me nervous for the first few weeks of taking it and that this effect wore off. If you haven't been on it that long that could be what you are experiencing but I don't really think the anger and nervousness are connected. At least they weren't for me.
Good luck.
Jane
PS It helps to have an agenda any time you go into see a doctor. That's not always easy to do if you feel awful and I often find I forget about half of what I planned to ask but at least I get answers to the other half. It's not to early to start figuring out exactly what you want to stress with this doctor next week. What you think is wrong, anything you think is important that you think the other doctor didn't focus in on, etc. Then try to figure out what questions you will have about any suggestions the doctor makes. It's a good guess that the pdoc will either switch or add to your meds so you might want to come in with a list of the questions that will be important to you. For example: Does this drug have sexual side effects? Can I stop it suddenly if it makes me feel worse or do I need to stop it slowly? Can I miss doses? Double them? Will it help with anger? What is it supposed to do? What do I do if I have XYZ side effect? Whatever is most important to you.
Posted by snowden on January 31, 2003, at 21:35:43
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and tantrums » ricardo, posted by jane d on January 31, 2003, at 14:22:14
<<I found that the Prozac seemed to work especially well on the kind of rages you describe and my understanding is that all the SSRIs are alike in that way. Sometimes taking an SSRI and Wellbutrin eliminates the sexual side effects of the SSRI. For me the combination is also a better antidepressant than either one alone.
I was just wondering if you're currently taking both Prozac and Wellbutrin. First I took only Prozac, felt extremely sedated and slept constantly...then Wellbutrin, anger, rages, etc. I almost lost my job!...Now Prozac again, sedation continues...If you're on both, what dosage do you take? Do you still get rages and aggitation while also on an SSRI?
Please, any advice would be helpful, it's either sleep the rest of my life away, isolate myself from everyone through both depression and/or aggression...
Snow
Posted by ricardo on February 1, 2003, at 12:51:47
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and tantrums » jane d, posted by snowden on January 31, 2003, at 21:35:43
Thanks a lot for the wonderful feedback I got from all of you! Since I've long heard that Wellbutrin is a "good" drug when it comes to discontinuing it, that's what I've done. I feel melancoly but not angry. I did it two days ago, and I do feel better. Let me confess something to you. As soon as I felt a relapse of my depression, I started getting irregular about taking my daily wellbutrin tablets. I skipped one day, took it on another day... Until I discontinued it altogether for about 5 days. Then, back home, I started taking it regularly once again. That was when I got the anger impulses back (which I had already had just when I had first started on Wellbutrin). Anyway, the idea of having a list of question written down sounds really like a good idea and I'll try to make one.
Posted by jane d on February 1, 2003, at 15:45:08
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and tantrums » jane d, posted by snowden on January 31, 2003, at 21:35:43
> I was just wondering if you're currently taking both Prozac and Wellbutrin. First I took only Prozac, felt extremely sedated and slept constantly...then Wellbutrin, anger, rages, etc. I almost lost my job!...Now Prozac again, sedation continues...If you're on both, what dosage do you take? Do you still get rages and aggitation while also on an SSRI?
Snowden,
I'm taking 300mg of Wellbutrin SR and 20mg of Prozac a day. The SSRI seems to be what controls the anger. But, I also did not find that Wellbutrin increased my anger above what it was without medication. It just didn't reduce it the way the Prozac did. If I felt it had caused anger I would be very reluctant to take it again even with another drug. It would seem like causing anger and not preventing anger should be based on the same properties of the drug but I'm not sure that that is true. Other people have posted of experiences like yours here in the past. I was only able to find one since the search function is currently broken but if I come across any others I'll post those links too.
Jane
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010804/msgs/74114.html
Posted by cybercafe on February 1, 2003, at 18:49:08
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and tantrums, posted by viridis on January 30, 2003, at 21:29:37
> Wellbutrin works well for some people, but can increase anxiety and cause anger in others. That's how I reacted, along with some additional strange side effects. I rarely get angry, but Wellbutrin made me edgy, nervous, and irritable. I tried it for 8 weeks, but since the side effects didn't resolve, I discontinued it and have since found a better set of meds for anxiety/depression/ADD.
i don't mind anger or anxiety :)
how did wellbutrin do for ADD and depression?
Posted by snowden on February 1, 2003, at 19:36:38
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and tantrums » snowden, posted by jane d on February 1, 2003, at 15:45:08
Posted by viridis on February 1, 2003, at 19:45:27
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and tantrums, posted by cybercafe on February 1, 2003, at 18:49:08
Not much help in the ADD department; I think there was some antidepressant effect. There were a few days when I actually felt great, but these were unpredictable, and I just couldn't take the side effects. Some were very strange, unlike anything I've experienced before. I was extremely dizzy much of the time, and had tremendous "pressure" in my head, as though I had a bad head cold. I became very sensitive to bright lights, and had several panic attacks that were triggered by eye contact with people (classic "fight-or-flight" norepinephrine response). I also had episodes of shaking uncontrollably. None of this is at all normal for me (except panic attacks, but not just from looking at someone). Aside from this, I was very anxious most of the time, even more so than usual. This was at 150 mg/day, a pretty low dose.
The GP who prescribed it (and wanted me to start at 450 mg!) said that it's not possible for this med to have side effects, so I must be "imagining" them. However, the side effects stopped within a day of discontinuing it, and the psychiatrist I saw subsequently said that everything I described is consistent with his experience in some patients, especially those with anxiety disorders.
Coincidentally, a friend's wife took it around the same time and had a very similar reaction, only worse. But then someone else I know took it and found it very helpful with no side effects. Go figure.
Posted by ricardo on February 2, 2003, at 5:59:54
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and tantrums » cybercafe, posted by viridis on February 1, 2003, at 19:45:27
In my case, I was feeling really well when I started taking Wellbutrin, but it was right in the aftermath of my quitting Paxil. I tapered Paxil off, so I didn't feel any withdrawal symptoms, which might also be explained by the fact that I took it for just a month. The time I felt the greatest ever since I started my treatment was when I had reduced my Paxil dosage to about 5 mg/day. I had my sex life back and I felt great about myself and my life. I had a minor relapse right after starting on Wellbutrin, but I thought I needed to allow some time for it to kick in, since it was a totally different kind of drug. My anger fits happened just after the first dose, though. Now, two months later, I'm having a major relapse (even though I did NOT feel great for this whole last month, but I was away from home, so I couldn't call my doctor). Well, that's my experience.
Posted by worrier on February 2, 2003, at 16:55:48
In reply to Wellbutrin and tantrums, posted by ricardo on January 30, 2003, at 17:28:09
> Hi!
>
> I've always been impulsive and I have always (ever since I was a child) had this tendency to show my anger physically (not violence against other people, but by throwing objects against the wall and this kind of thing). Some people say that it's because I'm an Aries... In my struggle with depression, I've had some different kinds of tantrums... Especially, the ones related to self-deprecation, or self-humiliation. To be more precise, things like getting down on my knees, in tears, begging somebody to make love to me so I wouldn't feel rejected. It did happen once. I wish I could forget that! These are moments when I really thought as though I was losing control. When I first started on Paxil, I thought that I was more level, or as if there was elastic bed (I really don't know what you call that in English) keeping me from falling, or from going too low. I don't think I had one single breakdown while on it. However, I asked my doctor to put me off it, since the sexual side-effects had really been a problem for me, as well as it put me to sleep all day long. She substituted Wellbutrin. I was ecstatic when she put me on it. I would treat my depression, as well as lose weight, have more energy and all the rest of it. Right from the start, I had a big breakdown when having an argument with somebody. I was shocked at how violent that was (but, please, don't think that I threatened somebody's life or anything like that; what I did do was to hurt myself, by slapping my face real hard!) Now, I'm facing a relapse of my depression. This afternoon, I felt terrible and, once again, I had one of those breakdowns. This time, I did not express it physically. I kept it to myself, but the feeling was that I was exploding. I thought I was not going to survive that! I could only feel some relief when I started crying non-stop. By boyfriend left me alone and said he's tired of living with a "crazy" person like me. He said he's leaving me for good this time. Anyway, my question is, could it be the Wellbutrin that is causing these violent reactions. One thing is for sure: I'm not taking that pill tomorrow or on any of the following days, until my appointment with my pdoc on Wednesday. I'd love to know what your thoughts are... (and I feel terrible ashamed for having written this post...)
>
> Cheers,
> RicardoRicardo, I found that welbutrin caused alot of irritablity and outbursts of anger also. I had lots of other side effects from it too, horrible insomnia, dizziness, feeling really spacey and disconnected. Have a couple of friends who had similar experiences, but a couple others who had no side-effects at all. Sounds like it's not the drug for you. Talk to your doc. I don't think what you are experiencing is that unusual. Hang in there. Worrier.
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