![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by titleistguy on January 25, 2003, at 1:27:09
Hi, my name is Sean, and I am 19 years old and live in Canada. I’ve been having a really hard time the past 10 months, and was wondering if you could, perhaps, give me some information and/or advice?
Here’s my story: Last September (2001), I was sitting in class on the first day of school, and basically had a “panic attack” (I didn’t know what it was then, but my Psychiatrist now tells me that’s what it was). Anyhow, at that time, I went to see my Family Doctor, and he gave me 20mg of Prozac.
Now, for about 3 years prior to this, I’d been having an increasingly difficult time falling asleep at night. The Prozac made this worse! So, after trying Zoloft, Paxil, and Remeron, to no avail, my GP determined that I was “Bipolar” (I had NO idea what this meant, at the time, but in retrospect I was definitely NOT manic-depressive [I’ve done a TON of research, since May, 2002, for reasons you’ll see shortly!]). So, my Doctor put me on 5 pills/day of Lithium-Carbonate, 40mg of Prozac, and 15-30mg/night of Imovane (Zopiclone; a Canadian non-Benzodiazepine Hypnotic, for sleep, which he assured me TWICE was POSITIVELY NON-ADDICTIVE [Yeah, RIGHT!!!]). I was on this regiment for about 7 months, when I realized that I was having a harder and harder time getting to sleep at night, on my Imovane (it got to the point where I took 30mg at night, and was up for about 2 hours after that, before I finally fell asleep!). Not only that, but I felt like absolute CRAP in the mornings (really “Groggy”, kind of a “hungover-type” feeling). So I told my Doctor about this in May, 2002, and he determined that the reason I had built up a tolerance to the Imovane was that I was now in a “hypomanic phase”, and he abruptly told me to quit taking the Imovane and Prozac and, in addition to my Lithium (which I maintain to this day did absolutely NOTHING, except BALLOON me from a “svelte” 130 pounds to a MASSIVE 210. . . in only 6 months!!!), he prescribed 2.5mg/day of Rivotril (Clonazepam).
Well, this stuff nearly DESTROYED me!!! I mean, after I took it, the next day I felt like I was in the DEEPEST sleep of my life (was tired the following days), and I started crying ALL the time (at the LITTLEST things!), got increasingly more anxious, my arms and legs started feeling really “heavy”, and I was really having a hard time thinking, period! In fact, in knocked me out so bad, that after a week I had to start taking “Ionamin” in the mornings JUST TO GET OUT OF BED!!! I was on the Clonazepam for 3 ½ weeks, when I finally DEMANDED to see an ACTUAL Psychiatrist (to determine, once and for all, if I actually WAS Bipolar!), and so that I could get OFF the friggin’ Rivotril!!! So he agreed, and made me an appointment to see a Psychiatrist at the local University in Edmonton (who, incidentally, determined after TWO visits that I was NOT Bipolar; a second Psychiatrist confirmed this!).
But, before I initially saw the first Psychiatrist, I decided that I HAD to get off the Clonazepam (the stuff was RUINING me!!!). So, after 3 ½ weeks, I quit the Clonazepam entirely (I wanted to quit after a WEEK, but my parents, at my GP’s insistence, wouldn’t let me!!!). I also quit the Lithium at this time too. I decided the only thing I would take, until I saw the Psychiatrist (in the middle of June, this was now late-May), was my Imovane (for sleep). So the day after quitting the Clonazepam, I went back on 22.5mg (3 pills)/night of Imovane.
Well, after 2 days. . . I started to get this REALLY weird “feeling in my head” (which I now know, was “Depersonalization”, felt about a “3” [my Psychologist explained to me, this Fall, about the “1-10 Scale” used in talking about Dissociation]). I thought this feeling would just pass, so I didn’t mention it to the Psychiatrist when I saw him (mainly because I would have done ANYTHING not to have to take that Clonazepam!!!).
The Psychiatrist told me on the first visit to quit taking the Imovane “cold turkey”, and he’d see me in three weeks.
I quit the Imovane that night, and the next morning was ABSOLUTE HELL!!!!!!
I felt like I was “electrically charged”, couldn’t think, was EXTREMELY sensitive to light, felt about a “6” (Depersonalization-wise), felt like my eyes had sunk to the back of my head, my muscles (head, neck, biceps, legs) were twitching, I sweated PROFUSELY, and my heart felt like it was going to burst!!! Needless to say, I was EXTREMELY anxious, at this point!!!
But, I was determined to do what the Psychiatrist had told me, so I decided to “tough it out”. . . but I could only go for 7 days, before I ended up going to a clinic BEGGING for Ativan (I had NO knowledge of Benzodiazepines/addiction, at this point, I just thought I was going crazy!!!). The doctor there gave me 3 Ativan tablets (explaining to me that they, too, were addictive [FINALLY, an honest doctor!!!]).
I used one Ativan that night, but the next day, told my dad that I just COULDN’T take it anymore, so he went and got me some more Imovane for the next two weeks.
So, I saw the Psychiatrist again, and told him that I just couldn’t get off the Imovane, and so he told me to SLOWLY taper (1/2 a pill off, every 3 weeks, until I was done). I thought, “well that’ll take me 4 months to get off this crap”, and meanwhile I was still feeling pretty ‘Depersonalized’, apparently from the Clonazepam, so I decided, finally, after about a week of tapering to go “cold turkey” (as he had originally suggested), and see what happens.
So, on July 20, 2002, I quit the Imovane, for GOOD!!!
The next 3 ½ weeks were ABSOLUTE HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(I honestly thought I was going to die!!!)But, that time passed, and with one week left in August, I was through the “primary withdrawals”.
But what I was left with (mentally) was HORRIBLE!!!
Here’s how I felt, and FEEL, to this day:
- Extreme light sensitivity (which causes me to see “negative- after images” of almost EVERYTHING!!! (By FAR the worst symptom!!!)
- Depersonalization (about a “3-4”, which has lessened to about a “1-2” with Effexor XR, which I’ve been on for about a month)
- Extreme anxiety (had to quit University, TOTALLY unable to think/function at even an ADEQUATE level!)
- Depression (my life has basically been taken from me, all because my Doctor didn’t tell me that Imovane was addictive!)
- Sleep pattern REVERSAL (now, instead of having trouble GETTING to sleep, I get to sleep no problem, but wake up EARLY every night!!!)
- Ears ring constantly, at night
- Muscles (esp. Head & neck) twitch alot
I now have a new Psychiatrist, and he said that initially my REAL problem was “Generalized Anxiety Disorder, with Depression”. But he admits that he’s never heard of these “after images”, and can’t explain all the visual stuff, but says it’s most likely due to either the Clonazepam or the Imovane. Also, I’ve now seen 3 different Psychiatrists, and they’ve ALL said that I am in NO WAY Psychotic, just so you know!He’s starting me on Effexor, as I mentioned, for the GAD & Depression, and so far it’s doing what it should (but isn’t helping the Photophobia/ “after-images”). Also, he made me an appointment with an Opthamologist on February 13th, to make sure it isn’t an eye problem (I told him I know it isn’t, though, because I already saw my Optometrist, and he said my eyes are fine, and even checked for Brain cancer).
My question to you is: Are there ANY possible treatment options for my visual symptoms??? (ie. Light-sensitivity, “after-images”, modest Depersonalization). A Psychiatrist named Dr. David Cohn (in Oakland) I spoke to, on the phone, said to try some anticonvulsants (like Tegretol or Depakote). Do you think this would help??? What about “Gabatril” (Tiagibine)??? Is it addictive, also???
Dr. Cohn said it sounded like I have a “Protracted Benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome”, was this because I quit the Rivotril/Imovane “cold turkey”, or was it just the length I was on them???
Would it help if I went back ON, then slowly tapered (for the record, many pharmacologists have told me NOT to do this. . . but I’m in HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
(Basically, I’ll try ANYTHING [as long as there is NO habit-forming potential!!!], because my life is basically ruined, at this point, and I’m really losing hope!)
Thanks for ANY comments/suggestions!!!
Posted by JohnL on January 25, 2003, at 4:59:55
In reply to PLEASE HELP ME!!! (Calamity of errors!!!), posted by titleistguy on January 25, 2003, at 1:27:09
I think what you should do is show this posting to a new doctor. You wrote it very well. Any doctor who does not show real compassion and a positive attitude to get this fixed should be dumped.
John
> Hi, my name is Sean, and I am 19 years old and live in Canada. I’ve been having a really hard time the past 10 months, and was wondering if you could, perhaps, give me some information and/or advice?
>
> Here’s my story: Last September (2001), I was sitting in class on the first day of school, and basically had a “panic attack” (I didn’t know what it was then, but my Psychiatrist now tells me that’s what it was). Anyhow, at that time, I went to see my Family Doctor, and he gave me 20mg of Prozac.
>
> Now, for about 3 years prior to this, I’d been having an increasingly difficult time falling asleep at night. The Prozac made this worse! So, after trying Zoloft, Paxil, and Remeron, to no avail, my GP determined that I was “Bipolar” (I had NO idea what this meant, at the time, but in retrospect I was definitely NOT manic-depressive [I’ve done a TON of research, since May, 2002, for reasons you’ll see shortly!]). So, my Doctor put me on 5 pills/day of Lithium-Carbonate, 40mg of Prozac, and 15-30mg/night of Imovane (Zopiclone; a Canadian non-Benzodiazepine Hypnotic, for sleep, which he assured me TWICE was POSITIVELY NON-ADDICTIVE [Yeah, RIGHT!!!]). I was on this regiment for about 7 months, when I realized that I was having a harder and harder time getting to sleep at night, on my Imovane (it got to the point where I took 30mg at night, and was up for about 2 hours after that, before I finally fell asleep!). Not only that, but I felt like absolute CRAP in the mornings (really “Groggy”, kind of a “hungover-type” feeling). So I told my Doctor about this in May, 2002, and he determined that the reason I had built up a tolerance to the Imovane was that I was now in a “hypomanic phase”, and he abruptly told me to quit taking the Imovane and Prozac and, in addition to my Lithium (which I maintain to this day did absolutely NOTHING, except BALLOON me from a “svelte” 130 pounds to a MASSIVE 210. . . in only 6 months!!!), he prescribed 2.5mg/day of Rivotril (Clonazepam).
>
> Well, this stuff nearly DESTROYED me!!! I mean, after I took it, the next day I felt like I was in the DEEPEST sleep of my life (was tired the following days), and I started crying ALL the time (at the LITTLEST things!), got increasingly more anxious, my arms and legs started feeling really “heavy”, and I was really having a hard time thinking, period! In fact, in knocked me out so bad, that after a week I had to start taking “Ionamin” in the mornings JUST TO GET OUT OF BED!!! I was on the Clonazepam for 3 ½ weeks, when I finally DEMANDED to see an ACTUAL Psychiatrist (to determine, once and for all, if I actually WAS Bipolar!), and so that I could get OFF the friggin’ Rivotril!!! So he agreed, and made me an appointment to see a Psychiatrist at the local University in Edmonton (who, incidentally, determined after TWO visits that I was NOT Bipolar; a second Psychiatrist confirmed this!).
>
> But, before I initially saw the first Psychiatrist, I decided that I HAD to get off the Clonazepam (the stuff was RUINING me!!!). So, after 3 ½ weeks, I quit the Clonazepam entirely (I wanted to quit after a WEEK, but my parents, at my GP’s insistence, wouldn’t let me!!!). I also quit the Lithium at this time too. I decided the only thing I would take, until I saw the Psychiatrist (in the middle of June, this was now late-May), was my Imovane (for sleep). So the day after quitting the Clonazepam, I went back on 22.5mg (3 pills)/night of Imovane.
>
> Well, after 2 days. . . I started to get this REALLY weird “feeling in my head” (which I now know, was “Depersonalization”, felt about a “3” [my Psychologist explained to me, this Fall, about the “1-10 Scale” used in talking about Dissociation]). I thought this feeling would just pass, so I didn’t mention it to the Psychiatrist when I saw him (mainly because I would have done ANYTHING not to have to take that Clonazepam!!!).
>
> The Psychiatrist told me on the first visit to quit taking the Imovane “cold turkey”, and he’d see me in three weeks.
>
> I quit the Imovane that night, and the next morning was ABSOLUTE HELL!!!!!!
>
> I felt like I was “electrically charged”, couldn’t think, was EXTREMELY sensitive to light, felt about a “6” (Depersonalization-wise), felt like my eyes had sunk to the back of my head, my muscles (head, neck, biceps, legs) were twitching, I sweated PROFUSELY, and my heart felt like it was going to burst!!! Needless to say, I was EXTREMELY anxious, at this point!!!
>
> But, I was determined to do what the Psychiatrist had told me, so I decided to “tough it out”. . . but I could only go for 7 days, before I ended up going to a clinic BEGGING for Ativan (I had NO knowledge of Benzodiazepines/addiction, at this point, I just thought I was going crazy!!!). The doctor there gave me 3 Ativan tablets (explaining to me that they, too, were addictive [FINALLY, an honest doctor!!!]).
>
> I used one Ativan that night, but the next day, told my dad that I just COULDN’T take it anymore, so he went and got me some more Imovane for the next two weeks.
>
> So, I saw the Psychiatrist again, and told him that I just couldn’t get off the Imovane, and so he told me to SLOWLY taper (1/2 a pill off, every 3 weeks, until I was done). I thought, “well that’ll take me 4 months to get off this crap”, and meanwhile I was still feeling pretty ‘Depersonalized’, apparently from the Clonazepam, so I decided, finally, after about a week of tapering to go “cold turkey” (as he had originally suggested), and see what happens.
>
> So, on July 20, 2002, I quit the Imovane, for GOOD!!!
>
> The next 3 ½ weeks were ABSOLUTE HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> (I honestly thought I was going to die!!!)
>
> But, that time passed, and with one week left in August, I was through the “primary withdrawals”.
>
> But what I was left with (mentally) was HORRIBLE!!!
>
> Here’s how I felt, and FEEL, to this day:
> - Extreme light sensitivity (which causes me to see “negative- after images” of almost EVERYTHING!!! (By FAR the worst symptom!!!)
> - Depersonalization (about a “3-4”, which has lessened to about a “1-2” with Effexor XR, which I’ve been on for about a month)
> - Extreme anxiety (had to quit University, TOTALLY unable to think/function at even an ADEQUATE level!)
> - Depression (my life has basically been taken from me, all because my Doctor didn’t tell me that Imovane was addictive!)
> - Sleep pattern REVERSAL (now, instead of having trouble GETTING to sleep, I get to sleep no problem, but wake up EARLY every night!!!)
> - Ears ring constantly, at night
> - Muscles (esp. Head & neck) twitch alot
>
>
> I now have a new Psychiatrist, and he said that initially my REAL problem was “Generalized Anxiety Disorder, with Depression”. But he admits that he’s never heard of these “after images”, and can’t explain all the visual stuff, but says it’s most likely due to either the Clonazepam or the Imovane. Also, I’ve now seen 3 different Psychiatrists, and they’ve ALL said that I am in NO WAY Psychotic, just so you know!
>
> He’s starting me on Effexor, as I mentioned, for the GAD & Depression, and so far it’s doing what it should (but isn’t helping the Photophobia/ “after-images”). Also, he made me an appointment with an Opthamologist on February 13th, to make sure it isn’t an eye problem (I told him I know it isn’t, though, because I already saw my Optometrist, and he said my eyes are fine, and even checked for Brain cancer).
>
> My question to you is: Are there ANY possible treatment options for my visual symptoms??? (ie. Light-sensitivity, “after-images”, modest Depersonalization). A Psychiatrist named Dr. David Cohn (in Oakland) I spoke to, on the phone, said to try some anticonvulsants (like Tegretol or Depakote). Do you think this would help??? What about “Gabatril” (Tiagibine)??? Is it addictive, also???
>
> Dr. Cohn said it sounded like I have a “Protracted Benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome”, was this because I quit the Rivotril/Imovane “cold turkey”, or was it just the length I was on them???
>
> Would it help if I went back ON, then slowly tapered (for the record, many pharmacologists have told me NOT to do this. . . but I’m in HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
>
>
> (Basically, I’ll try ANYTHING [as long as there is NO habit-forming potential!!!], because my life is basically ruined, at this point, and I’m really losing hope!)
>
>
> Thanks for ANY comments/suggestions!!!
Posted by proud mary on January 25, 2003, at 10:30:19
In reply to Re: PLEASE HELP ME!!! (Calamity of errors!!!), posted by JohnL on January 25, 2003, at 4:59:55
It sounds like you have been to hell and back, well, maybe NOT back. I could read between the lines that you are battling with the Canadian public health system, which seems to be part of the problem, big time.
In 10 months, you have been put on so many meds, I can't imagine how they can figure out what was what and what CAUSED what. I agree to show this to a new pdoc, but I also realize that might be easier said than done at this point.
I can personally offer than klonopin (clonazapam) along with zoloft worked really well for me and my gad/panic attacks (which also cause depression). I was almost non-functional when I finally got help, so I can relate.
I was started on low doses of these meds and seemed to respond well for years, until I began to "poop out" on the zoloft.
My suggestion is that you find a way to go to a therapist AND a new pdoc. A therapist can actually help with behavoral techniques to handle the GAD which, as bad as mine was, seemed to help me control a lot of it. I was so bad at one time I was almost not able to leave my house and I was afraid to be left alone with my three young children because I was afraid I would flip out and hurt them against my will.
I'm not sure how you can manage all this with a health system that sounds like it takes some manuvering (espcially when you are feeling so mentally disorganized anyway) but I just want you to know that I do understand what you are feeling and that if you keep trying, you will find a solution and help. Please feel free to contact me when ever you need someone to talk to. Maybe you can tell me more about just how you get medical help in canada and I can brainstorm to come up with some solutions for you.
Don't give up. There are many of us who understand how you feel and we are all here for you, to listen and advise as best we can.
Good luck...if you need to talk to someone directly, please e-mail me a mmheid511@aol.comMary
Posted by jimmygold70 on January 25, 2003, at 13:12:20
In reply to PLEASE HELP ME!!! (Calamity of errors!!!), posted by titleistguy on January 25, 2003, at 1:27:09
Yes, I believe you should take some GABAnergic anticonvulsant. Depakote (valproic acid) is best tolerated so this is a good place to start from. Tegretol is next.
For the diurnal cycle disorder, melatonin should help.
Effexor is pretty good for anxiety. It is not unlikely that with Depakote/Tegretol + Effexor the symptoms will improve. Maybe a higher dose of Effexor will eventually be needed.
Jimmy
> Hi, my name is Sean, and I am 19 years old and live in Canada. I’ve been having a really hard time the past 10 months, and was wondering if you could, perhaps, give me some information and/or advice?
>
> Here’s my story: Last September (2001), I was sitting in class on the first day of school, and basically had a “panic attack” (I didn’t know what it was then, but my Psychiatrist now tells me that’s what it was). Anyhow, at that time, I went to see my Family Doctor, and he gave me 20mg of Prozac.
>
> Now, for about 3 years prior to this, I’d been having an increasingly difficult time falling asleep at night. The Prozac made this worse! So, after trying Zoloft, Paxil, and Remeron, to no avail, my GP determined that I was “Bipolar” (I had NO idea what this meant, at the time, but in retrospect I was definitely NOT manic-depressive [I’ve done a TON of research, since May, 2002, for reasons you’ll see shortly!]). So, my Doctor put me on 5 pills/day of Lithium-Carbonate, 40mg of Prozac, and 15-30mg/night of Imovane (Zopiclone; a Canadian non-Benzodiazepine Hypnotic, for sleep, which he assured me TWICE was POSITIVELY NON-ADDICTIVE [Yeah, RIGHT!!!]). I was on this regiment for about 7 months, when I realized that I was having a harder and harder time getting to sleep at night, on my Imovane (it got to the point where I took 30mg at night, and was up for about 2 hours after that, before I finally fell asleep!). Not only that, but I felt like absolute CRAP in the mornings (really “Groggy”, kind of a “hungover-type” feeling). So I told my Doctor about this in May, 2002, and he determined that the reason I had built up a tolerance to the Imovane was that I was now in a “hypomanic phase”, and he abruptly told me to quit taking the Imovane and Prozac and, in addition to my Lithium (which I maintain to this day did absolutely NOTHING, except BALLOON me from a “svelte” 130 pounds to a MASSIVE 210. . . in only 6 months!!!), he prescribed 2.5mg/day of Rivotril (Clonazepam).
>
> Well, this stuff nearly DESTROYED me!!! I mean, after I took it, the next day I felt like I was in the DEEPEST sleep of my life (was tired the following days), and I started crying ALL the time (at the LITTLEST things!), got increasingly more anxious, my arms and legs started feeling really “heavy”, and I was really having a hard time thinking, period! In fact, in knocked me out so bad, that after a week I had to start taking “Ionamin” in the mornings JUST TO GET OUT OF BED!!! I was on the Clonazepam for 3 ½ weeks, when I finally DEMANDED to see an ACTUAL Psychiatrist (to determine, once and for all, if I actually WAS Bipolar!), and so that I could get OFF the friggin’ Rivotril!!! So he agreed, and made me an appointment to see a Psychiatrist at the local University in Edmonton (who, incidentally, determined after TWO visits that I was NOT Bipolar; a second Psychiatrist confirmed this!).
>
> But, before I initially saw the first Psychiatrist, I decided that I HAD to get off the Clonazepam (the stuff was RUINING me!!!). So, after 3 ½ weeks, I quit the Clonazepam entirely (I wanted to quit after a WEEK, but my parents, at my GP’s insistence, wouldn’t let me!!!). I also quit the Lithium at this time too. I decided the only thing I would take, until I saw the Psychiatrist (in the middle of June, this was now late-May), was my Imovane (for sleep). So the day after quitting the Clonazepam, I went back on 22.5mg (3 pills)/night of Imovane.
>
> Well, after 2 days. . . I started to get this REALLY weird “feeling in my head” (which I now know, was “Depersonalization”, felt about a “3” [my Psychologist explained to me, this Fall, about the “1-10 Scale” used in talking about Dissociation]). I thought this feeling would just pass, so I didn’t mention it to the Psychiatrist when I saw him (mainly because I would have done ANYTHING not to have to take that Clonazepam!!!).
>
> The Psychiatrist told me on the first visit to quit taking the Imovane “cold turkey”, and he’d see me in three weeks.
>
> I quit the Imovane that night, and the next morning was ABSOLUTE HELL!!!!!!
>
> I felt like I was “electrically charged”, couldn’t think, was EXTREMELY sensitive to light, felt about a “6” (Depersonalization-wise), felt like my eyes had sunk to the back of my head, my muscles (head, neck, biceps, legs) were twitching, I sweated PROFUSELY, and my heart felt like it was going to burst!!! Needless to say, I was EXTREMELY anxious, at this point!!!
>
> But, I was determined to do what the Psychiatrist had told me, so I decided to “tough it out”. . . but I could only go for 7 days, before I ended up going to a clinic BEGGING for Ativan (I had NO knowledge of Benzodiazepines/addiction, at this point, I just thought I was going crazy!!!). The doctor there gave me 3 Ativan tablets (explaining to me that they, too, were addictive [FINALLY, an honest doctor!!!]).
>
> I used one Ativan that night, but the next day, told my dad that I just COULDN’T take it anymore, so he went and got me some more Imovane for the next two weeks.
>
> So, I saw the Psychiatrist again, and told him that I just couldn’t get off the Imovane, and so he told me to SLOWLY taper (1/2 a pill off, every 3 weeks, until I was done). I thought, “well that’ll take me 4 months to get off this crap”, and meanwhile I was still feeling pretty ‘Depersonalized’, apparently from the Clonazepam, so I decided, finally, after about a week of tapering to go “cold turkey” (as he had originally suggested), and see what happens.
>
> So, on July 20, 2002, I quit the Imovane, for GOOD!!!
>
> The next 3 ½ weeks were ABSOLUTE HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> (I honestly thought I was going to die!!!)
>
> But, that time passed, and with one week left in August, I was through the “primary withdrawals”.
>
> But what I was left with (mentally) was HORRIBLE!!!
>
> Here’s how I felt, and FEEL, to this day:
> - Extreme light sensitivity (which causes me to see “negative- after images” of almost EVERYTHING!!! (By FAR the worst symptom!!!)
> - Depersonalization (about a “3-4”, which has lessened to about a “1-2” with Effexor XR, which I’ve been on for about a month)
> - Extreme anxiety (had to quit University, TOTALLY unable to think/function at even an ADEQUATE level!)
> - Depression (my life has basically been taken from me, all because my Doctor didn’t tell me that Imovane was addictive!)
> - Sleep pattern REVERSAL (now, instead of having trouble GETTING to sleep, I get to sleep no problem, but wake up EARLY every night!!!)
> - Ears ring constantly, at night
> - Muscles (esp. Head & neck) twitch alot
>
>
> I now have a new Psychiatrist, and he said that initially my REAL problem was “Generalized Anxiety Disorder, with Depression”. But he admits that he’s never heard of these “after images”, and can’t explain all the visual stuff, but says it’s most likely due to either the Clonazepam or the Imovane. Also, I’ve now seen 3 different Psychiatrists, and they’ve ALL said that I am in NO WAY Psychotic, just so you know!
>
> He’s starting me on Effexor, as I mentioned, for the GAD & Depression, and so far it’s doing what it should (but isn’t helping the Photophobia/ “after-images”). Also, he made me an appointment with an Opthamologist on February 13th, to make sure it isn’t an eye problem (I told him I know it isn’t, though, because I already saw my Optometrist, and he said my eyes are fine, and even checked for Brain cancer).
>
> My question to you is: Are there ANY possible treatment options for my visual symptoms??? (ie. Light-sensitivity, “after-images”, modest Depersonalization). A Psychiatrist named Dr. David Cohn (in Oakland) I spoke to, on the phone, said to try some anticonvulsants (like Tegretol or Depakote). Do you think this would help??? What about “Gabatril” (Tiagibine)??? Is it addictive, also???
>
> Dr. Cohn said it sounded like I have a “Protracted Benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome”, was this because I quit the Rivotril/Imovane “cold turkey”, or was it just the length I was on them???
>
> Would it help if I went back ON, then slowly tapered (for the record, many pharmacologists have told me NOT to do this. . . but I’m in HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
>
>
> (Basically, I’ll try ANYTHING [as long as there is NO habit-forming potential!!!], because my life is basically ruined, at this point, and I’m really losing hope!)
>
>
> Thanks for ANY comments/suggestions!!!
Posted by cybercafe on January 25, 2003, at 13:32:19
In reply to Re: PLEASE HELP ME!!! (Calamity of errors!!!) » JohnL, posted by proud mary on January 25, 2003, at 10:30:19
> It sounds like you have been to hell and back, well, maybe NOT back. I could read between the lines that you are battling with the Canadian public health system, which seems to be part of the problem, big time.
> In 10 months, you have been put on so many meds, I can't imagine how they can figure out what was what and what CAUSED what. I agree to show this to a new pdoc, but I also realize that might be easier said than done at this point.
> I can personally offer than klonopin (clonazapam) along with zoloft worked really well for me and my gad/panic attacks (which also cause depression). I was almost non-functional when I finally got help, so I can relate.
any hints for navigating the canadian health system?i'm seriously considering moving to france.... it would be easier to learn french than find a good + non-busy/non-burned-out doc
Posted by titleistguy on January 25, 2003, at 17:17:20
In reply to Re: PLEASE HELP ME!!! (Calamity of errors!!!), posted by cybercafe on January 25, 2003, at 13:32:19
Thanks for all the replies, just a couple things, if you all don't mind:
1) I will NEVER take another Benzodiazepine as long as I live, so please don't even bother suggesting one!
2) I have a new Psychiatrist who is a WONDERFUL guy, and is VERY willing to help me (I actually already DID show this letter to him!). He's the one who started me on the venlafaxine.
3) Do you think I got into this mess because I came off the Rivotril/Imovane TOO FAST, or was simply TAKING them enough to do this???
4) Does ANYONE have any experience with "Benzo. addiction / recovery"? (Without referring me to that HOKEY benzo.org.uk site!!!)THANKS ALOT for any, and ALL, help and advice!!!
-Sean
Posted by Jaynee on January 25, 2003, at 19:49:27
In reply to PLEASE HELP ME!!! (Calamity of errors!!!), posted by titleistguy on January 25, 2003, at 1:27:09
Titleistguy: I too am in western canada. I am sorry that you were treated by a GP, when you should have been seeing a Pdoc. My two cents worth. I would stay with the Effexor XR and stay away from everything else. I think once you let your body clear out all the other drugs you will start to feel better. I personally put my money on the Lithium. I would bet that is what caused and is still giving you the weird side-effects. I am glad you are getting your eyes and brain checked out, just in case. I also think you should have your thyroid checked as well. I had a brother-in-law that was given Lithium when he shouldn't have, he took it for a few months and it just about killed him. He too lives in Alta. What he finally got diagnosed with was graves disease, but in the meantime they put him on lithium and told him he had an alergy to his pillow and that is why his eyes were starting to bug out of his head. When he came to visit with my sister, I took one look at him and said he has graves disease. It was so obvious, so he went back to the doctors and got a proper check-up. Sounds to me like you have some pretty crappy doctors in Alberta. Anyways, here is a site you may want to read about lithium.
http://sorrel.humboldt.edu/~morgan/litz_s01.htm
My sister was on Zopiclon for over a year. She had a very hard time getting off of it as well. Her doctor told her it was non-habit forming as well. I told her, her doctor was wrong, so she was prepared for the worse when she went to quit.
If you can just take the Effexor XR and stay clear of the other drugs for a month or two, I think you will probably feel better.
Good luck, and better days are coming your way.
Posted by titleistguy on January 25, 2003, at 22:57:38
In reply to Re: PLEASE HELP ME!!! (Calamity of errors!!!), posted by Jaynee on January 25, 2003, at 19:49:27
Thanks for the reply, but I've been off Lithium for 8 months now!!! Also, I haven't had a benzodiazepine ( or ANY hypnotic/sedative/tranquilzer/sleeping-pill) for 6 months!!!
What is going on?????????????????????
Thanks for all the help guys, PLEASE, keep it coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Titleistguy: I too am in western canada. I am sorry that you were treated by a GP, when you should have been seeing a Pdoc. My two cents worth. I would stay with the Effexor XR and stay away from everything else. I think once you let your body clear out all the other drugs you will start to feel better. I personally put my money on the Lithium. I would bet that is what caused and is still giving you the weird side-effects. I am glad you are getting your eyes and brain checked out, just in case. I also think you should have your thyroid checked as well. I had a brother-in-law that was given Lithium when he shouldn't have, he took it for a few months and it just about killed him. He too lives in Alta. What he finally got diagnosed with was graves disease, but in the meantime they put him on lithium and told him he had an alergy to his pillow and that is why his eyes were starting to bug out of his head. When he came to visit with my sister, I took one look at him and said he has graves disease. It was so obvious, so he went back to the doctors and got a proper check-up. Sounds to me like you have some pretty crappy doctors in Alberta. Anyways, here is a site you may want to read about lithium.
>
> http://sorrel.humboldt.edu/~morgan/litz_s01.htm
>
> My sister was on Zopiclon for over a year. She had a very hard time getting off of it as well. Her doctor told her it was non-habit forming as well. I told her, her doctor was wrong, so she was prepared for the worse when she went to quit.
>
> If you can just take the Effexor XR and stay clear of the other drugs for a month or two, I think you will probably feel better.
>
> Good luck, and better days are coming your way.
Posted by Ilene on January 26, 2003, at 20:54:19
In reply to PLEASE HELP ME!!! (Calamity of errors!!!), posted by titleistguy on January 25, 2003, at 1:27:09
Sorry, I don't have any major advice. But...you have probably read about this by now--withdrawal from Effexor is hard for some (most?) people. If or when you decide to quit, you should taper off very slowly. I understand there are some drugs that can mask the withdrawal symptoms. After what you have been through you need to do whatever you can to protect yourself from further damage.
I am sorry you have had such a terrible time.
Posted by Ritch on January 27, 2003, at 23:19:27
In reply to PLEASE HELP ME!!! (Calamity of errors!!!), posted by titleistguy on January 25, 2003, at 1:27:09
Photophobia and visual disturbances are common with migraines. You could be having "atypical" migraine symptoms. Depakote and other anticonvulsants can help, but I would try to get a referral to a neurologist to determine what the hell is going on.
Posted by tai daluna on March 17, 2004, at 2:02:12
In reply to Re: PLEASE HELP ME!!! (Calamity of errors!!!) » titleistguy, posted by Ritch on January 27, 2003, at 23:19:27
hey sean,
how much effexor are you on? when i take too much effexor (for me: over 75mg) i have visual disturbances like you are writing about. at 150 mgs i was hallucinating so madly that the pdoc at mental health wanted to put me on antipsychotics: my bf nixed that idea, suggesting that perhaps the psychosis was caused by effexor. later, i found a decent pdoc, and he told me what i had been experiencing was serotonin syndrome. i am not suggesting that that is what you have, because i was also (besides hallucinating/visual disturbances) really quite sick: fever, shaking chills, asthmatic attacks, high anxiety, convulsions... i can't believe the carelessness with which doctors prescribe drugs. i had no idea what a crazy ride i was in for. no one caught it, and if it hadn't been for my bf watching my back, i could've died.
good luck. tai
Posted by trakm on April 5, 2009, at 3:05:52
In reply to Re: PLEASE HELP ME!!! (Calamity of errors!!!) » JohnL, posted by proud mary on January 25, 2003, at 10:30:19
First I wouold like to say that you have been so many different drugs that It might be impossible top know what causes what.
One more important thing about half-life : When you take a pill you must think about 7x the half-life-time untill you can say that the pills are out. For a common used benzodiazepin, diacepam, the half-time is about 35 hours. Then you must think 7x35 =245 hours (10 days !!) untill the dose change is effetuatede or the stuff is out if you quit.
(sorry about my bad english but I just HAVE TO share my story about Imovane/z-drug)my story:
Since i'm working nightshift i started with zopiclona too sleep by daytime. It seemed harmless in the beginning and i used only 3,75 mg.What I then didnt know was that this stuff, because of it's short biological half-life (4 hours) , can give a slightly form of abstinence only short time after you have taken it.
Many, including me, experience awaikening after 4 hours. then the temptation is big to take more. Thats how it started to go downhill for me.
After about 8 hours (at the second half-life) I experienced a kind of anxiety, total passivity, social anxiety and agressivity. I thought it was something wrong with me. Now I understand that this was only the zopiclone which left my body, and my brains GABA-system that was affected.The only thing that helped against this anxiety was to take more zopiclone. I remember the first time i took 2 x 7,5mg. I couldnt sleep so I desided to go out. I dont remember any more.
I woke up in the evening and i had been shopping. My refridgerator was full of food which i had bought but didnt remeber. This is a known bi-effect of zopiclone and other benzodiacepines known as amnesia. Later I also found out that I had called friends and made appointments which I didnt remeber.
I can remeber thou that I had hallucinations. The pattern in my carpet was moving when I looked at it but the carpet itself was not moving. This sideeffect did not dissapear even days after I took the pills.But the anxiety disapeared as long as I took more zopiclone every 4'th hour. My brain started telling me that there was something wrong with me and that I just needed this stuff to survive. But the antianxiety-effect didnt last for long.
To make a long history short. After using zopiclone for 7 years I was now using about 20-30 x 7,5mg per day. I started my day with 7-10 pills just to get out of bed. To avoid drowsiness I used 3-4 fenazon-coffein-pills. At some point I was near to try amphetamin, but thank God I didn't. With so many sleepingpills inside, you are not exactly sane, and your critical sense is very reduced.
I couldn't get out of this addiction alone so I contacted my doctor ( who was only one of MANY, since I had been doctor shopping a lot) I also bought pills from china on the internet.
He contacted a treatment place, and after waiting for 3 months I got in to treatment.Now I dont use anything, and I now understand that many of the things I was suffering from was because of the pills themselves. The treatment was 1 week in 24h institution and 2 months as day-patient.
Now that is half a year ago and I only go there about once pr month for a talk. Some of the side-effects (ex. dry mouth and muscle tremor ) are still there. The doctors say that you will have to use about 1 month pr year you have been mis-using.I didnt start to feel OK untill I had been TOTALLY without pills for approximately 1 month.
Wake up and dont let the farmacological industry fool you, as they have fooled your doctor with luxus hotels and seminars. There are NO farmacological sleepingpills without side-effects and dependence.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.