Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 136539

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lamictal vs. neurontin or gabitril What's Best?

Posted by hildi on January 19, 2003, at 11:41:37

I have been following threads on these meds, but still need advice/input. For anxious depressive types like me, who has had bad or very limited success with AD's (hypomania or worse)and benzos (More anxious unless I use lots) and klon (helps if I add a benzo-but then I feel drugged), What do you all like the best or think would be best for anxious depressive conditions.??
Is lamictal calming? Is it more of a mood stabilizer than an anxiety med?
Is neurontin good for calming, but not for the hypomania associated with taking the AD's?
I'd really like to hear other's input on this.
Hildi

 

Re: lamictal vs. neurontin or gabitril What's Best?

Posted by lostsailor on January 19, 2003, at 12:38:35

In reply to lamictal vs. neurontin or gabitril What's Best?, posted by hildi on January 19, 2003, at 11:41:37

Hi,

I guess the first question that comes to mind do you have a diagnosis of bi-polar disorder.

I do and am currently taking lamictal, benzos. and lexapro. I have found, so far, lamictal to be the best mood stabel. I have been on (depakote, lithium and neurontin)

Depakote did a great job, but, as with lithium< required blood work. When neurontin began to be used to stabilized mood swings and anxiety, I pleaded with doc to try me on it. It may have been an ok med for the anxiousness that I experience due to GAD and panic disorder but my mood was all over the place. Finally, Doc lost all faith in it as a mood stabilizer and now uses it for anxiety only and still seems skeptical about it's efficacy.

Lamictal, has been gaining favor with docs especially for those that exhibit prominent depressive symptoms and has done wonders for me so far. I have been on high doses of various benzos. for years now and no longer really notice any tiredness.

Oh, if Klon equals Klonopin, that is a benzo.

Hope this was a bit of help to you.

~Tony

 

Re: lamictal vs. neurontin or gabitril What's Best?

Posted by Ame Sans Vie on January 19, 2003, at 12:41:49

In reply to lamictal vs. neurontin or gabitril What's Best?, posted by hildi on January 19, 2003, at 11:41:37

Assuming you've read my response to your other post regarding my opinions on these three drugs, there is one other suggestion I would like to make. The novel stimulant 'Provigil' can be great at alleviating depression and also seems to potentiate anxiolysis caused by many other drugs (which I'm sure more than a few on the board could back me up on). If I were you, I'd give Neurontin + Provigil a shot... sounds like a great combo for us "anxious depressive types" to me-- especially if you can't tolerate the side effects of benzos.

All the best,

Michael

 

Re: lamictal vs. neurontin or gabitril What's Best?

Posted by lostsailor on January 19, 2003, at 19:00:58

In reply to Re: lamictal vs. neurontin or gabitril What's Best?, posted by Ame Sans Vie on January 19, 2003, at 12:41:49

Michael...

Doc once asked me if I wanted to consider using a stimulant, but I was scared stiff even though he "didn't think" it would cause trouble because of benzos. Have you tried this at all?

Also, although I still need to look for other postings--I am a bit new here (again) have you used neurontin and had luck with anxiety? I was not sure, but did know it did nothing to control mood swings into hypo-manic hell.

Thanks , ~Tony

 

Re: What's Best? » lostsailor

Posted by hildi on January 19, 2003, at 20:05:56

In reply to Re: lamictal vs. neurontin or gabitril What's Best?, posted by lostsailor on January 19, 2003, at 12:38:35

Yes, I know klon is a benzo, but it is also used as a mood stabilizer too-adjunctly.
I don't know if I am BP. But If I am, it is BPII. And I think the mania/hypomania I experience is really due to the AD's. GAD and major depression I believe is my 'condition'. I don't know- I have mixed states, too, of major depression and irritable hypomania.
I am in the process of changing DR's, so maybe this next one will be able to tell me more of what my diagnosis is.
All I know is that AD's can, and usually do, ,make me feel worse-but it DOES stop the incessant crying. There are only 2 AD's I have been able to take: prozac and zoloft. Alone though on an AD, I cannot handle the anxiety and restlessness and racing thoughts and other bad feelings. That is why I am also taking klon and xanax at this time.
I have read conflicting stories of neurontin's effectiveness for the anxiety- and I don't know if I can afford to buy the amount that would be needed, anyway! It sounds like it worked for your anxiety, but you were also taking other meds which may have potentiated it's effects-thus causing the increased mood swings. How much were you taking of the nuerontin?
One other thing- would you call the lamictal calming, good for anxiety also? It seems like it is more stimulating from some of the posts I've read.
Hildi

 

Re: What's Best? » Ame Sans Vie

Posted by hildi on January 19, 2003, at 20:12:47

In reply to Re: lamictal vs. neurontin or gabitril What's Best?, posted by Ame Sans Vie on January 19, 2003, at 12:41:49

Hi. Yes, I read your other message-very eye opening. Thanks.
Wouldn't the stimulant provigil cause even more anxiety? I have here at home a box of adrafinil which I haven't tried yet, It is 'supposed' to be somewhat equal to modafinil, and isn't that basically the same as provigil? I am afraid to try it for fear of jumping out of my skin!
Also- didn't you have limited succes with the neurontin for anxiety? (or am I thinking of someone else)
What are YOU taking for your anxious depression, if you don't mind me asking-
Hildi

 

Re: What's Best?

Posted by Ame Sans Vie on January 20, 2003, at 1:56:19

In reply to Re: What's Best? » Ame Sans Vie, posted by hildi on January 19, 2003, at 20:12:47

First, yes, adrafanil is sort of considered the "unrefined" version of modafinil. But unlike other stimulants, Provigil has a very unique modus operandi. I.E., while amphetamines exert their action primarily through release/reuptake inhibition of dopamine and noradrenaline, modafinil seems to have very little or no effect on dopamine, and surely none on noradrenaline. It works by activating the parasympathetic part of your hypothalamus; the *sympathetic* hypothalamus, if stimulated, would cause excessive anxiety-- the "fight or flight" response. The parasympathetic area is largely not understood, though. The only practical information I can offer at this point is that I have yet to hear of a single person experiencing *any* side effects from Provigil. It helps to think of it as what it really is-- a wakefulness-promoting agent, even a mild euphoric at higher doses, but not a stimulant in the classic sense of the word. Even still, since beginning this drug I have been able to very easily skip my morning coffee, and because of this my GERD is now completely nonexistant. :-)

Yes, I was the one who didn't respond to Neurontin, but I was on a very low dose. I would like to try it again at a much higher dosage.

And I'm sure you've gathered this already from my other posts by now, but I take Valium, Klonopin, Xanax, and Ativan.

--Michael

 

Re: What's Best? » hildi

Posted by viridis on January 20, 2003, at 4:09:04

In reply to Re: What's Best? » Ame Sans Vie, posted by hildi on January 19, 2003, at 20:12:47

I have major anxiety problems, and had no trouble with modafinil -- it was energizing without causing anxiety, and I kind of liked it. However, it didn't address my ADD issues especially well, so I switched to Adderall. As I've mentioned, I also take Klonopin and Neurontin, plus Xanax once in a while.

If you have anxiety problems, I'd be cautious with any stimulating meds, and if you use them, start with a low dose to see how you react. I do very well with some stimulants, but caffeine can make me very wired, and Wellbutrin was a disaster. Responses to stimulants can be idiosyncratic, so just proceed carefully.

 

Re: What's Best?to hildy from lost

Posted by lostsailor on January 21, 2003, at 10:25:44

In reply to Re: What's Best? » lostsailor, posted by hildi on January 19, 2003, at 20:05:56

Ok I should have figured you knew about Klonopin but just thought I'd ask. Neurontin...sorry I cant say much more. The meds that could have contaminated its effects were many. Effexor was used for at least one depressive episode, as was celexa when not using the effexor. My dose started at 300 3x daily, increased to 600 3x daily and eventually to 900 3x daily--so I went to 2700 mgs, but needed to go down to 2100 due to feelings of stomach sickness. Valium and/ or xanax are co-administered along with an ssri--now, lexaro, a newer form of celexa and ambien for sleep.

Lmital and calming. For me yes but that just be because it seems to almost totally halted mood swing better than Depakote and much better than neurontin.

Hope this helps. Keep us posted. =:) ~Tony

 

Re: What's Best?to hildy from lost

Posted by sydney on January 21, 2003, at 13:03:09

In reply to Re: What's Best?to hildy from lost, posted by lostsailor on January 21, 2003, at 10:25:44

When I started taking Neurontin, 400mg tid, for neuropathic pain it had the added benefit of "curing" my anxiety. Unfortunately, the effect began to fade and was essentially gone in 3 weeks. I then increased the dosage to 800mg tid. Again, the anxiety was gone. Again, it came back after three weeks. I continue to use the Neurontin for neuropathic pain at 400mg tid. If I know I'm going to be somewhere that will cause anxiety, I'll double up. It seems to help.

A new drug I would follow, if I were you, is Strattera, aka Atomoxetine. It is a Selective Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor. The first of its kind. It has been approved for ADD but its NOT a stimulant. I gather that it holds promise for both anxiety and depression. I've just started it in place of Adderall (a stimulant). I think its effectively treating both my ADD and Anxiety... but its early yet.

 

Re: What's Best?

Posted by hildi on January 23, 2003, at 22:27:55

In reply to Re: What's Best?, posted by Ame Sans Vie on January 20, 2003, at 1:56:19

Thanks Michael. Very interesting. You know, the adrafanil is supposed to have some effect on noradrenaline (that is what the information that came along with it said, but I don't have the specifics) and the only time I took it I did feel jittery-that is why I took it only once. AD's that act on norepinephrine (sp?) make me jittery and nervious, too. But you say the provigil is unique in that it does not act on the same receptors as adrafanil?? This changes my outlook-but you do, or do not take it yourself? I noticed that you take all the same anxiety meds that I take -ALL the same, but I also take low dose SSRI which makes me feel icky, jittery, sick, spacy,hyper, etc. . .but it stops the crying!
If you do take provigil, did you say it improves your mood-sort of acting as an AD? (I know another response mentioned that- i wondered if your reaction with provigil is similar in that regard)
It sounds so tempting to try neurontin, but also very expensive. With no insurance I don't think I could afford that med. The benzos are much more affordable, but i know my doc's are concerned about me using too much/too many benzos-hence one of the reasons I am looking for alternatives.
What would be the lowest dose of neurontin that would be effective for a person? (A small sized person who is very med sensitive!)
Do you really need to take thousands of mg's daily of this stuff??
Hildi

 

Re: What's Best? » viridis

Posted by hildi on January 23, 2003, at 22:37:13

In reply to Re: What's Best? » hildi, posted by viridis on January 20, 2003, at 4:09:04

Wellbutrin was a disaster for me, as well. I think any med that acts on norepinephrine makes me over the top anxiety -wise. Also, that adrafranil said it acts on noradrenaline, and the one time I took it I was jumpy, so maybe things that work on that receptor, too, are no good for me?/ Don't know- I need to find out more about these two receptors.
You mentioned a sort of synergy existed between the adderal and the klon that acted as an AD. Sounds very interesting, especially in light of finding that there are differences in the stimulants, in what they do-the receptors they act on, that is, and the fact that someone can have negative experience with one stimulant and very good responses with others.
Thanks for the good information.
Hildi

 

Re: What's Best? » lostsailor

Posted by hildi on January 23, 2003, at 22:52:15

In reply to Re: What's Best?to hildy from lost, posted by lostsailor on January 21, 2003, at 10:25:44

Both celexa and effexor made me completely wacko. I don't know what I could have taken then to calm me down-maybe injections of valium, or something equally as strong. I'm saying this because maybe they make you anxious as well, and that is why the neurontin was not strong enough.
Just a thought.
How much lamictal are you taking that seems to be working for you now? And this med is just once a day dosing, right?
Hildi

 

Re: What's Best?to hildy from lost » sydney

Posted by hildi on January 23, 2003, at 22:57:10

In reply to Re: What's Best?to hildy from lost, posted by sydney on January 21, 2003, at 13:03:09

Hi. Thanks for the response. I am afraid to take anything that acts on norepinephrine because of bad reactions in the past with some other meds that acted on this receptor. It could be different with this new med, though, . . .

Well, neurontin sure was a dissapointment for you, wasn't it. Working great, then continuing to poop out. Good luck with the Strattera and keep us posted how it goes.
Hildi

 

What is GERD?? (nm) » Ame Sans Vie

Posted by hildi on January 23, 2003, at 23:08:42

In reply to Re: What's Best?, posted by Ame Sans Vie on January 20, 2003, at 1:56:19

 

Neurontin and drug prices » hildi

Posted by viridis on January 23, 2003, at 23:52:24

In reply to Re: What's Best?, posted by hildi on January 23, 2003, at 22:27:55

Hi Hildi,

You mentioned that you'd like to try Neurontin, but can't afford the high cost. It's kind of a hit-or-miss drug; I take it, and I'm really not sure whether it does anything any more. But it might be worth a try -- some people find it relaxing, and I definitely did right at the beginning.

Re: cost issues: Neurontin should be generic very soon (its patent has expired but the company is stalling the generics with lawsuits). It's already generic in Canada, and you can buy it online for about half of what it costs here. You must have a prescription from your doctor, you send it to one of the Canadian pharmacies, and their doctors check with your doctor. I haven't done this myself, but my understanding is that it's perfectly legal (so I'm pretty sure I'm not violating any terms of this site).

For example, check www.crossborderpharmacy.com. 100 100 mg pills is about $31, 100 300 mg is about $68, 100 400 mg is $78, and so on (plus $15 shipping). The costs get quite a bit lower with larger quantities.

This is just a suggestion (and I think your doctor has to agree), but it might be a way to try this med or others without breaking your budget. I must emphasize that I'm not an expert on the legalities of importing drugs, but this appears to be legitimate and a very useful service -- certainly, a lot of people are doing this. Canada has very high standards for prescription drugs, and most of the meds you get from these sites are identical to what's sold in the U.S.

Good luck!

Viridis

 

Re: What's Best? » hildi

Posted by Luka62 on January 24, 2003, at 0:12:06

In reply to Re: What's Best?, posted by hildi on January 23, 2003, at 22:27:55

I am currently on Lamictal, for past 17months. I was on Neurontin for about 4 or 5 years, and took it up until this past July. My diagnosis is Bipolar as well as PTSD. I had also been on Depakote and Lithium.(neither or which helped my severe and frequent mood swings.)
When I started on Lamictal after my Psych. doc sent me to a psychopharmacologist for a consult, I asked to be taken off the Neurontin, at least to see if I could do okay on just the Lamictal and an antidepressant, she refused. Eventually with my therapist's support I decided to change doctors and go off the neurontin. I have been stable since going off it like you wouldn't believe. I've not been in the hospital for 1 1/2 years ( an honest to God record for me. Hadn't been out that length of time in 13 years.!!)

My mood swings are no where near like they were, it's so undescribable.
But what is very interesting to me is my teen son was on Neurontin too, and after 1 year of him seeing a psyciatrist I really didn't feel confident in, I switched him also to a doc who immediately took him off the neurontin. It changed things for him dramatically too, it's almost scary. As weird as it may sound, it has me wondering if the neurontin wasn't Contributing to my situation, and my son's as well!! AFter his med was switched, he no longer experienced the sometimes psychotic symptoms and strange thought processes.! (He is also bipolar, and adhd, and his med regimen now seems to be quite effective.)

I don't know if our experiences are unusual or rare, or what, but either the Lamictal is the first med in 15 years to really help me, or the neurontin was actually making things a lot worse.

My current doc told me that unlike Neurotin or Depakote, Lamictal also helps the depression As Well as the manic episodes.

 

Re: What's Best?

Posted by lostsailor on January 24, 2003, at 9:22:31

In reply to Re: What's Best? » lostsailor, posted by hildi on January 23, 2003, at 22:52:15

Hildy,

Yes I normally find ssris and such to be over stimulating when not on a mood stabilizer. I also take Valium and/or xnanx.

I take 100 Lamical 2X daily, but you may be able to take it all at once. My doc just knows I prefer to not put a lot of junk in me all at once...lol

~Tony

 

Re: What is GERD?? » hildi

Posted by Ame Sans Vie on January 24, 2003, at 12:52:25

In reply to What is GERD?? (nm) » Ame Sans Vie, posted by hildi on January 23, 2003, at 23:08:42

GERD (rhymes with 'bird') is gastroesophogeal reflux disease-- basically chronic acid reflux, and it's *very* taxing on your esophogus. If you're in the U.S., I imagine you've seen TV ads for Nexium, Prilosec, etc. Those are anti-GERD medications.

--Michael

 

Re: What is GERD??

Posted by evergreen on January 26, 2003, at 7:08:29

In reply to What is GERD?? (nm) » Ame Sans Vie, posted by hildi on January 23, 2003, at 23:08:42

At times eveyone get acid reflux. However, when it is 2 or more times a week for a period of 10 years or more it can lead to a condition called Barrett's esophagus. B.E. is a pre cancerous condition that rarley turns cancerous.(About 8 out of 100) However if a person has the above criteria they should go for an endosccopy exam. (Not painful) and the conditioncan be monitored. If it begins to get worse it is much easy to treat/cure than if it goes unchecked,
Evergreen

 

Re: What is GERD??

Posted by Ame Sans Vie on January 26, 2003, at 23:18:58

In reply to Re: What is GERD??, posted by evergreen on January 26, 2003, at 7:08:29

Actually, it's been happening to me everyday for the past 14 years (I'm now 20), without exception. It wasn't until I started seeing the ads on TV for Prilosec and decided it was something I'd better get checked out by my gastoenterologist. Until then, I was just popping Tagamet all day every day. I didn't realize that Tagamet in combination could multiply the effects of Xanax, but I sure found out soon enough, lol.

Ranitidine, famotidine, and Tums never helped in the slightest.

--Michael


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