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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ace on January 1, 2003, at 1:21:22
Hi guys. I'm new to this forum. It seems a lot more open minded than some others. On one I question the efficacy of the SSRIs and let them know about MAOIs and they tell me to stop posting!!
I heard your help and I need it quick.
I have started Nardil. It's been 4 weeks 3 days. At times It's blunted my phobic anxiety (to derealization) and made me happy & less self conscious. It hasn't done much for the OCD YET (I've heard it can be very good for OCD) In many ways it has just carried over the antidepressant effects of sertraline (Zoloft) -- which were minimal. I quit zoloft 2 weeks before Nardil. I really don't think it's kicked in. I havent felt the 'zap' that's characteristic of AD onset of action. Also the effects of NARDIL I spoke of above only happen at TIMES. This makes me think it hasn't kicked in. Although it's been a while I have a VERY good feeling about this drug.
Some questions about the 'old faithful'
1. Onset of action -- How long did it take for you guys? I've read it can take 4-8 weeks. I have been on it for 4 weeks 3 days but I've only been on 60mg 2 weeks 1 day. I've read a lot that it can take 4 weeks to kick in at THE HIGHER DOSE (60mg) independent of the length of time taken before 60mg was started.
2. Dosage -- I take 4 tablets. One at 10 am, another at 12pm, another 2pm, and yet another 4pm. Is this OK?
3. Has anyone heard of any stories or know of anyone using it for OCD?
4. Do you think my dose is high enough? I've heard of some people responding to 45mg after 6 weeks. This makes me wary to up the dose at the moment (I've had a few side effects)
5. It has maximum effects on REM sleep after 2-3 weeks. I have noticed a bit after week 3 waking in the early morning. Any of you guys experienced these effects? Furthermore, is the suppression of REM sleep inherently bad?
6. Half-Life -- is it 1.2 hours or 2 hours?
I'm not going to give up on this drug. You guys have helped. I've been reading your messages and it seems as if Nardil users connect! I'm in Australia, only around 500 people use it here (I rang manufacturer) We have all got to keep it alive!Take Care guys,
Ace.
Posted by cosis on January 1, 2003, at 11:07:46
In reply to ATTENTION MAOI NARDIL FREAKS - Need info ASAP, posted by ace on January 1, 2003, at 1:21:22
Hey man
I took it 4 weeks 1 day before it kicked in. When it finally kicked in it was w/ 75mg, I had no result from 60mg. I now take 90mg and it still is working well. I take 3 when I wake up and 3 at lunch time both with food although it doesn't matter.
I read some information about some people taking it all at night if they are sleepy during the day but I am not quite sure when you take it will make the initial effect come any sooner.
45mg doesnt sound high enough for social anxiety, most people need 75mg-90mg or even more... if your taking it for depression I really don't know the ideal amount, I am sure everyone is different but ask your doc for an increase if you don't start feeling any effects soon.
hang in there, quoted from a book I read, Nardil always almost works...
Nick
Posted by Lawrence S. on January 1, 2003, at 15:27:24
In reply to ATTENTION MAOI NARDIL FREAKS - Need info ASAP, posted by ace on January 1, 2003, at 1:21:22
For me it did'nt really work until 3 months or more after starting it. This could have been because of the dose being titrated up so slowly. But it was so long ago that I can't remember what the dosing was. Lawrence
Posted by djmmm on January 1, 2003, at 16:18:58
In reply to ATTENTION MAOI NARDIL FREAKS - Need info ASAP, posted by ace on January 1, 2003, at 1:21:22
It took only a week or so for it to work. I started @60mg, and stayed @ 60mg (all 4 pills at one time, in the morning) after a week or so there was a profound change in my depression/social anxiety. I went from borderline agoraphobic to what I consider "cured"
I also found that a beta-blocker helps (for the physical social anxiety symptoms)
FWIW, the typical effective dose is 60mg, for depression and Social phobia...I think the dose Cosis recomended (75-90) is not typical, although definitely not a rarity. In fact I found that the side-effects were more pronounced at doses over 60mg..although I have had VERY few, if any side-effects.
I believe the half-life is about 3 hours (average) but once you have achieved adequate MAO inhibition, this half-life becomes less important.
as far as REM sleep, the only time I dream (or remember dreaming) is when I miss a dose, and I have nightmares. I don't know what the consequences of suppressed REM sleep are specifically. In my experience, during the first few weeks of taking Nardil, I experienced "sleep attacks" during the day, where I would get intensely sleepy. This passed quickly.
Posted by utopizen on January 1, 2003, at 21:29:08
In reply to Re: ATTENTION MAOI NARDIL FREAKS - Need info ASAP, posted by cosis on January 1, 2003, at 11:07:46
> > hang in there, quoted from a book I read, Nardil always almost works...
>
> NickI don't know what book you are referring to, but no clinical trial would support such a statement. I'm glad you feel better, but I wish some on this board understood the danger in giving false hope to someone who has a serious mental illness. Someone once told me Effexor would almost certainly work at 300. I took it for months, and it made me impotent, but no effect whatsoever on mood or anything (all I have is mild social anxiety).
Posted by ace on January 1, 2003, at 21:39:32
In reply to Re: ATTENTION MAOI NARDIL FREAKS - Need info ASAP, posted by utopizen on January 1, 2003, at 21:29:08
Utopizen -- From what I've read it seems as if Nardil is one of those drugs that works for everyone -- like Valium. I have heard a lot of people not responding to SSRIs, though.
I quote something I saw on these forums posted by Spike4848...
"I have seen the Godfather of Nardil, Dr. Fredrick Quitken from Columbia. I asked him if he knew any alternatives to Nardil. He said essentially "No, it is the most potent medication, effective in 95% of patients"...
Posted by cosis on January 1, 2003, at 22:03:15
In reply to Re: ATTENTION MAOI NARDIL FREAKS - Need info ASAP, posted by utopizen on January 1, 2003, at 21:29:08
"Nardil almost always works, so the major issue is usually surviving the side effects."
-The Essential Guide To Psychiatric Drugs by Jack M. Gorman.
Hence *almost*.. You can't say every drug works for everybody but what his quote is saying is there is a good chance it will work. Having a positive feeling and patience like ace is awesome. I also had the same feeling even on day 28 it was going to work. I hope you feel the same great effects as I do....
Nick
good luck
Posted by ace on January 2, 2003, at 0:12:25
In reply to Re: ATTENTION MAOI NARDIL FREAKS - Need info ASAP, posted by cosis on January 1, 2003, at 22:03:15
> "Nardil almost always works, so the major issue is usually surviving the side effects."
>
> -The Essential Guide To Psychiatric Drugs by Jack M. Gorman.
>
> Hence *almost*.. You can't say every drug works for everybody but what his quote is saying is there is a good chance it will work. Having a positive feeling and patience like ace is awesome. I also had the same feeling even on day 28 it was going to work. I hope you feel the same great effects as I do....
>
> Nick
>
> good luckHi Nick,
I appreciate your support, bro. I guess it's hard for some to optimistic.
Just another couple of questions if that's cool...1. Do you remember the actual 'zap' when it kicked in? Was it undeniable? how can you explain it?
2. How long have you been on it?
Thanks again friend,
Ace.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 2, 2003, at 1:20:53
In reply to Re: ATTENTION MAOI NARDIL FREAKS - Need info ASAP, posted by cosis on January 1, 2003, at 22:03:15
> "Nardil almost always works, so the major issue is usually surviving the side effects."
>
> -The Essential Guide To Psychiatric Drugs by Jack M. Gorman.I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
But I don't mean to be pushy. Did you deliberately not use it to link to Amazon? If so, I'd be interested in why, over at Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by ross c on January 2, 2003, at 8:02:29
In reply to Re: double double quotes » cosis, posted by Dr. Bob on January 2, 2003, at 1:20:53
first off everything works differently for everyone. along time ago i scraped nardil after a week. it would not work. then i studied the drug and found out it byways and pathways to the brain. well i went back on it about 2 years ago and between trying the new drug lexapro it has been my mainstay. we are almost all TRD on this board and i found this miracle drug called nardil. to get the full benefits you need a dose of 75 to 90 mgs. and there you run into some nasty side effects. but they go away except for my constipation which i see a GI on the 7th for.
nardil makes you say yes when you would normally say no. it makes you hum meaning it destroys anxiety--every kind. is very good for OCD but to me not the best. has a wake up one day and you feel better effaciacy. diet is way overated. you can eat alot of chesses. you do crave sweets so and the # 1 biggest weight gain factor is nardils water retention ability. i gain on the average of 15lbs. nardil also works great or amazing augmented with an aytipical. i was in complete remission of all when i was on 75mgs of nardil and 2.5mgs zyprexa bid. but then again fierce weight gain from the two so now im going to try abilify again or geodon. abilify seems to give me anxiety as it is the number 2 side effect from it in its RX...
i urge people to call pfizer though because i call them everyday and get a diffent story. the latest is they have an emergency supply that expires feb. 28th. but you can get this med drop shipment the next day........
800-533-4535
ill write more later on my experiences
ross
Posted by cosis on January 2, 2003, at 8:58:59
In reply to Re: double double quotes » cosis, posted by Dr. Bob on January 2, 2003, at 1:20:53
Dr. Bob
I forgot about this feature. I guess I will remember next time :)Nick
Posted by cosis on January 2, 2003, at 9:08:34
In reply to Re: ATTENTION MAOI NARDIL FREAKS - Need info ASAP » cosis, posted by ace on January 2, 2003, at 0:12:25
>>1. Do you remember the actual 'zap' when it kicked in? Was it undeniable? how can you explain it?
2. How long have you been on it?
Hi,
A lot of people notice a zap, I don't think I experienced the zap effect as much as some people. I did notice though first and improvment in mood, meaning I use to always get moody and uncomfortable in situations... then I noticed I wasn't becoming depressed anymore.. The last effect was social anxiety and I first remember walking through the park usually unable to look people in the eye who passed and usually feeling anxiety as they got closer was gone... I didn't feel any anxiety and on car rides I use to lean down far into my seat and not look at anyone beside me in fear they would be staring back. Then I started to sit up high in my seat and look around a lot more at people.. Noticing most of them aren't paying attention to you....
After noticing these things I would test myself by walking in public places such as malls, stores, etc. and I was amazed that I didn't feel nervious or sweating uncontrallably anymore... I also popped out of bed with a lot of energy (not so much anymore but I wake up on 6 hours sleep).
I would have considered my social anxiety pretty bad, I wouldn't even go to the store...
There is a lot more I could write but I have to get ready to leave.. if you have more questions email me cosis@alltel.net
Oh yes, the side effects did go away in time, the worst was anorgasmia and that took 4 months! But I was on a high dose 90mg.... I been on Nardil for about 5+months now....
Nick
Posted by chad_3 on January 2, 2003, at 13:55:12
In reply to ATTENTION MAOI NARDIL FREAKS - Need info ASAP, posted by ace on January 1, 2003, at 1:21:22
Hi -
The dose of 60mg/day is a minimum basically for SP, but most people need to go higher for good effect. It is good to pace the increases every 2 or 3 weeks - your Dr. should be able to help. Your will have some side effects like all of these drugs but most of Nardil's dissapear or go way down after a few months of use.
Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/Treatment_outcome_of_SP_+_OCD.html> Hi guys. I'm new to this forum. It seems a lot more open minded than some others. On one I question the efficacy of the SSRIs and let them know about MAOIs and they tell me to stop posting!!
>
> I heard your help and I need it quick.
>
> I have started Nardil. It's been 4 weeks 3 days. At times It's blunted my phobic anxiety (to derealization) and made me happy & less self conscious. It hasn't done much for the OCD YET (I've heard it can be very good for OCD) In many ways it has just carried over the antidepressant effects of sertraline (Zoloft) -- which were minimal. I quit zoloft 2 weeks before Nardil. I really don't think it's kicked in. I havent felt the 'zap' that's characteristic of AD onset of action. Also the effects of NARDIL I spoke of above only happen at TIMES. This makes me think it hasn't kicked in. Although it's been a while I have a VERY good feeling about this drug.
>
> Some questions about the 'old faithful'
>
> 1. Onset of action -- How long did it take for you guys? I've read it can take 4-8 weeks. I have been on it for 4 weeks 3 days but I've only been on 60mg 2 weeks 1 day. I've read a lot that it can take 4 weeks to kick in at THE HIGHER DOSE (60mg) independent of the length of time taken before 60mg was started.
> 2. Dosage -- I take 4 tablets. One at 10 am, another at 12pm, another 2pm, and yet another 4pm. Is this OK?
> 3. Has anyone heard of any stories or know of anyone using it for OCD?
> 4. Do you think my dose is high enough? I've heard of some people responding to 45mg after 6 weeks. This makes me wary to up the dose at the moment (I've had a few side effects)
> 5. It has maximum effects on REM sleep after 2-3 weeks. I have noticed a bit after week 3 waking in the early morning. Any of you guys experienced these effects? Furthermore, is the suppression of REM sleep inherently bad?
> 6. Half-Life -- is it 1.2 hours or 2 hours?
>
>
> I'm not going to give up on this drug. You guys have helped. I've been reading your messages and it seems as if Nardil users connect! I'm in Australia, only around 500 people use it here (I rang manufacturer) We have all got to keep it alive!
>
> Take Care guys,
> Ace.
Posted by ace on January 2, 2003, at 21:26:37
In reply to Re: ATTENTION MAOI - 60-90mg is common dose, posted by chad_3 on January 2, 2003, at 13:55:12
> Hi -
>
> The dose of 60mg/day is a minimum basically for SP, but most people need to go higher for good effect. It is good to pace the increases every 2 or 3 weeks - your Dr. should be able to help. Your will have some side effects like all of these drugs but most of Nardil's dissapear or go way down after a few months of use.
>
> Chad
> http://www.socialfear.com/Treatment_outcome_of_SP_+_OCD.html
>
> > Hi guys. I'm new to this forum. It seems a lot more open minded than some others. On one I question the efficacy of the SSRIs and let them know about MAOIs and they tell me to stop posting!!
> >
> > I heard your help and I need it quick.
> >
> > I have started Nardil. It's been 4 weeks 3 days. At times It's blunted my phobic anxiety (to derealization) and made me happy & less self conscious. It hasn't done much for the OCD YET (I've heard it can be very good for OCD) In many ways it has just carried over the antidepressant effects of sertraline (Zoloft) -- which were minimal. I quit zoloft 2 weeks before Nardil. I really don't think it's kicked in. I havent felt the 'zap' that's characteristic of AD onset of action. Also the effects of NARDIL I spoke of above only happen at TIMES. This makes me think it hasn't kicked in. Although it's been a while I have a VERY good feeling about this drug.
> >
> > Some questions about the 'old faithful'
> >
> > 1. Onset of action -- How long did it take for you guys? I've read it can take 4-8 weeks. I have been on it for 4 weeks 3 days but I've only been on 60mg 2 weeks 1 day. I've read a lot that it can take 4 weeks to kick in at THE HIGHER DOSE (60mg) independent of the length of time taken before 60mg was started.
> > 2. Dosage -- I take 4 tablets. One at 10 am, another at 12pm, another 2pm, and yet another 4pm. Is this OK?
> > 3. Has anyone heard of any stories or know of anyone using it for OCD?
> > 4. Do you think my dose is high enough? I've heard of some people responding to 45mg after 6 weeks. This makes me wary to up the dose at the moment (I've had a few side effects)
> > 5. It has maximum effects on REM sleep after 2-3 weeks. I have noticed a bit after week 3 waking in the early morning. Any of you guys experienced these effects? Furthermore, is the suppression of REM sleep inherently bad?
> > 6. Half-Life -- is it 1.2 hours or 2 hours?
> >
> >
> > I'm not going to give up on this drug. You guys have helped. I've been reading your messages and it seems as if Nardil users connect! I'm in Australia, only around 500 people use it here (I rang manufacturer) We have all got to keep it alive!
> >
> > Take Care guys,
> > Ace.
>
>Dear Chad,
Thanks for the reply, dude.
Also, your website is spot on. The part on Nardil is one of the sensible I've ever seen. So many people love to scare people away from the MAOIs. Considering how much better they are than the SSRIs this is silly. I'm finally starting to notice some good effects and I've got a big smile on my dial! And I'm sure the best is definately yet to come!
Also, thankyou so much for the link you put to the Biospsychiatry article. Talking about lifting my mood! I was concerned about the lack of info on NARDIL/OCD before I read this, but this was great (by the way, I am also starting to note some serious improvements in my OCD).Just one question -- do you think it makes a big diff if you take Nardil in divided or single doses?
Thanks again,
Ace.
Posted by ace on January 2, 2003, at 22:59:14
In reply to nardil deal..some insights, posted by ross c on January 2, 2003, at 8:02:29
> first off everything works differently for everyone. along time ago i scraped nardil after a week. it would not work. then i studied the drug and found out it byways and pathways to the brain. well i went back on it about 2 years ago and between trying the new drug lexapro it has been my mainstay. we are almost all TRD on this board and i found this miracle drug called nardil. to get the full benefits you need a dose of 75 to 90 mgs. and there you run into some nasty side effects. but they go away except for my constipation which i see a GI on the 7th for.
> nardil makes you say yes when you would normally say no. it makes you hum meaning it destroys anxiety--every kind. is very good for OCD but to me not the best. has a wake up one day and you feel better effaciacy. diet is way overated. you can eat alot of chesses. you do crave sweets so and the # 1 biggest weight gain factor is nardils water retention ability. i gain on the average of 15lbs. nardil also works great or amazing augmented with an aytipical. i was in complete remission of all when i was on 75mgs of nardil and 2.5mgs zyprexa bid. but then again fierce weight gain from the two so now im going to try abilify again or geodon. abilify seems to give me anxiety as it is the number 2 side effect from it in its RX...
> i urge people to call pfizer though because i call them everyday and get a diffent story. the latest is they have an emergency supply that expires feb. 28th. but you can get this med drop shipment the next day........
> 800-533-4535
> ill write more later on my experiences
> rossHey Ross,
Thanks for the reply. Did you use to go under the name Just "ross" as opposed to "ross c"?
I think I saw your older posts.Anyhow, I'm actually in Australia. I have written a email to the FDA recommended it as a great drug. Everywhere on the net I recommend it!
But people are so in love with the SSRIs, even though these same people admit to only minimal or moderate relief from them!!!! I will get in contact with Pfizer, but hasn't Park Davis bought them out. Or is PD a part of Pfizer. Here I get it through 'Link Medical pharmaceuticals' (suplier). "Hansom Healthcare Limited' it says on my box. They are the marketers.Just a question about the "zap" of Nardil working. Before the zap did you feel ANY positive effects? Or did the 'zap' bring them all in one?
Thanks
Posted by chad_3 on January 3, 2003, at 1:47:55
In reply to Re: ATTENTION MAOI - 60-90mg is common dose » chad_3, posted by ace on January 2, 2003, at 21:26:37
Hi Ace -
I am really glad to hear that you are starting to get some results! I hope that things continue to work out and get better!
About your question - I haven't read much on it except Gorman's comment that like with other meds if you get more sleepy from Nardil then maybe at bedtime, but if activating in the AM, etc. Personally I have always taken it all in the AM, (very activating for me!) except at my highest dose 90mg I used to take 5 tabs in the am and one at noon. I think you will discover in time if you experiment a bit. Multiple doses thoughtout the day aren't usually necessary because Nardil's effect is pretty long lasting. One or two doses a day I think is most common.
Thanks for the kind words! By the way I notice you are familiar with biopshychatry.com :) That is my one and only favorite website of all time I was lucky I found it 5 years ago and he is about 10 years ahead of Dr's I think! :) I copied his format a bit! - I don't *think* he is mad about it we have known each other via email a little bit and he knows about it - maybe I should change that though since people I copied it so much that people think it is off his site! :)
Ace - Good luck man - I hope things continue to work and work better. If a lower dose partially works a higher one typically works better. Keep us all posted there has to be plenty of people with the combo of SP + OCD who are looking for something that works!!!Chad
>
> Dear Chad,
> Thanks for the reply, dude.
> Also, your website is spot on. The part on Nardil is one of the sensible I've ever seen. So many people love to scare people away from the MAOIs. Considering how much better they are than the SSRIs this is silly. I'm finally starting to notice some good effects and I've got a big smile on my dial! And I'm sure the best is definately yet to come!
> Also, thankyou so much for the link you put to the Biospsychiatry article. Talking about lifting my mood! I was concerned about the lack of info on NARDIL/OCD before I read this, but this was great (by the way, I am also starting to note some serious improvements in my OCD).
>
> Just one question -- do you think it makes a big diff if you take Nardil in divided or single doses?
>
> Thanks again,
> Ace.
>
Posted by ace on January 3, 2003, at 20:14:00
In reply to Re: ATTENTION MAOI - Ace, posted by chad_3 on January 3, 2003, at 1:47:55
Good to hear from you Chad!,
I am going to push it up to 90 mg when I get back from my holidays. The anorgasmia is a worry, but I'll take Nardil instead!!
Dude, I will tell as many people about your site I know. I study psychology at university and I might even reference you in a future essay!
It's great to see you doing something like this -- example for everyone. I'm finally getting off my ass and doing things too -- like recommending Nardil!!!!!! It's making me quite happy now but I'm smoking too many ciggies! (I always smoke more in good moods!!)
I'll be back soon dude!!Take Care, Chad.
This is the end of the thread.
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