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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Chloe on November 2, 2002, at 9:01:06
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Chloe, posted by Ritch on October 31, 2002, at 22:23:05
> Chloe, did you wait until after the treatment to take your Cytomel or did you take a split dose, etc.? If you skipped a dose-that could be why you are feeling a little "tired" and "cold". How is your Celexa dosing going? You might want to chart your Cytomel vis a vis Celexa/other meds and your response at different times of the day. This sounds very encouraging. I see my pdoc in a couple of weeks. It looks like Effexor+Ritalin+Omega3+supplements daytime and Depakote+Klonopin at night for now. If this thyroid experiment of yours proves to be *really* beneficial I might press the idea of a little Cytomel. Let us know what your free T3/T4 and your TSH results are, OK? good luck--Mitch
Hi Mitch,
I took the Cytomel after the treatment, so it was not on a empty stomach. But I never missed a dose and I haven't cut it in half again. I have cut my Celexa dose in half though. When I take the full 1.5 mgs, I get really chatty. I just want to talk and talk. So I am taking a little less and don't feel the need to talk up a storm and my mood is still good.
I feel almost no side effects from the Cytomel. I don't even notice that I am taking it anymore. But I do think it's keeping a little more of a floor on my mood. I am not having severe crashes into irrational, distorted suicidal thinking. What a relief. I hope to end this ECT soon.
I would definitely mention T3 to your pdoc. It has almost no side effects that I am aware of, and it actually seems to do something. That is so rare in the psychopharm world!
When I find out my TSH and other values I will let you know. I forgot to ask my pdoc for my original TSH in my email. Now I have to wait til I get my new value which will be drawn next week.
Did you find out if T3 (not T4) has to be taken on an empty stomach? The pharmacist mentioned nothing about it, and my pdoc didn't know...
Take care,
Chloe
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 2, 2002, at 10:55:57
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Ritch, posted by Chloe on November 2, 2002, at 9:01:06
Hi Chloe! It's such great news that you are really better, and can look towards the end of regular ECT. My endocrinologist instructed me to take the Cytomel on an empty stomach, a half hour before breakfast.
Pfinstegg
Posted by Ritch on November 2, 2002, at 13:24:20
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Ritch, posted by Chloe on November 2, 2002, at 9:01:06
> Hi Mitch,
> I took the Cytomel after the treatment, so it was not on a empty stomach. But I never missed a dose and I haven't cut it in half again. I have cut my Celexa dose in half though. When I take the full 1.5 mgs, I get really chatty. I just want to talk and talk. So I am taking a little less and don't feel the need to talk up a storm and my mood is still good.
> I feel almost no side effects from the Cytomel. I don't even notice that I am taking it anymore. But I do think it's keeping a little more of a floor on my mood. I am not having severe crashes into irrational, distorted suicidal thinking. What a relief. I hope to end this ECT soon.
> I would definitely mention T3 to your pdoc. It has almost no side effects that I am aware of, and it actually seems to do something. That is so rare in the psychopharm world!
> When I find out my TSH and other values I will let you know. I forgot to ask my pdoc for my original TSH in my email. Now I have to wait til I get my new value which will be drawn next week.
> Did you find out if T3 (not T4) has to be taken on an empty stomach? The pharmacist mentioned nothing about it, and my pdoc didn't know...
> Take care,
> ChloeChloe, I looked some more and the most info I could find was that 10-20mcg is a common "starting" dose. It is usually taken 2-3 times daily. Couldn't find anything about empty stomach or not. Did they give you any patient information with your script when you got your Cytomel filled? If this works out well, maybe you could add a 2nd 5mcg. tablet after you get all your thyroid tests back. I noticed the "chattiness" on Celexa, too. Other SSRI's do that as well. If I take more than just a little bit I will get hypomanic.... Mitch
>
Posted by Chloe on November 2, 2002, at 18:04:55
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Chloe, posted by Pfinstegg on November 2, 2002, at 10:55:57
> Hi Chloe! It's such great news that you are really better, and can look towards the end of regular ECT. My endocrinologist instructed me to take the Cytomel on an empty stomach, a half hour before breakfast.
>
> PfinsteggThanks Pfinstegg!
I am feeling better. And definitely ready to wind down on the ECT. I really think the T3 helps. Though it sure doesn't rev me up any more. I am ready to nod off, and it's only 7 pm!
I have been taking the Cytomel about an hour before breakfast. Thanks for sharing what your endo said. That helps.
Hope you are doing well
Chloe
Posted by Chloe on November 2, 2002, at 18:25:14
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Chloe, posted by Ritch on November 2, 2002, at 13:24:20
> Chloe, I looked some more and the most info I could find was that 10-20mcg is a common "starting" dose. It is usually taken 2-3 times daily. Couldn't find anything about empty stomach or not. Did they give you any patient information with your script when you got your Cytomel filled? If this works out well, maybe you could add a 2nd 5mcg. tablet after you get all your thyroid tests back. I noticed the "chattiness" on Celexa, too. Other SSRI's do that as well. If I take more than just a little bit I will get hypomanic.... Mitch
> >
>
>
Hey Mitch,
I am going to have a level drawn on Wednesday. I am very curious if it is effected at all. Because now I feel very quiet and "normal." I don't feel revved up or racy any more. I am sure my pdoc wanted to start me out slow. I am so sensitive to every med I take. She might bump up the dose next week when the tests are back.
The only patient info I got with my script said that "there are no typically reported side effects if you take this medication as directed." I thought that wasn't very helpful...No other instructions came with the medicine.
Oh, I have to be so careful with the SSRI's as you know. If I take more than a milligrams or so, I get hypomanic too. I start making really stupid decisions and doing things I wouldn't normally do. So as little as possible in the SSRI department. I took about .75 mgs Celexa today. That seemed like the upper limit. The phone rang tonight, and I really had to rein myself in, not to keep blabbing and blabbing. I did talk for over an hour and a half! But at least it wasn't pressured like it was when I started the Cytomel. The combo on Cytomel and Celexa for me is a potent one. I have been able to cut my Celexa in half without any added depresson.
Ooh, I feel so lucky all this stuff is working :)
Thanks
Chloe
Posted by Chloe on November 9, 2002, at 10:25:25
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Ritch, posted by Chloe on November 2, 2002, at 18:25:14
Hi Everybody,
I quit the Cytomel 10 mcgs. I was so HOT and nervous and racy. I didn't like that feeling of being all cracked up. The first feeling I would have when I would wake up is anxiety. I have been off it since Wednesday, about 4 days. And my mood is fine. But I am soooo tired. I just want to nap and nap and nap. But I have to go to work this afternoon. I hope I can keep focused.
I had a level drawn on Wednesday, when I had maintanence ECT. But my pdoc wasn't able to get into the computer to get my values. I haven't yet told my pdoc I stopped the T3. Do you think my energy level will pop back up? I was on the Cytomel a little over a week. Or could I take the Cytomel every other day? It's not really possible to cut the teeny pill in half effectively. It just turns into dust...
But like I said, my mood is pretty good. I have been getting involved in more things, and even having fun! I never laughed so hard the other night. It was such a blast. The ECT has been so helpful. Now I am down to every other week and soon I will go to once a month. I am just not sure the T3 is/was helping. It was adding to my anxiety and making my fuse a bit shorter. I sure would like to know my thyroid values...Can adding thyroid to a normal thyroid cause damage?
Hope you all are well,
Chloe
Posted by Chloe on November 9, 2002, at 18:24:12
I posted above, but it didn't "translate." So I wrote it again:
I stopped the Cytomel (T3) two days ago. I was too hot and anxious. I feel much better now, but I am SOOO sleepy. I am dragging myself around. I ready for bed now and it's only 7pm.
I tried to cut the pill, so I could take a smaller amount of T3. But it just turned to dust. Anyway, my mood seems pretty good without it, so far. I am MUCH less nervous, short fused and not sweating so. Hopefully, my energy level will pop back up to where it was pre-T3. I hope it's OK that I d/c'd it, cause I just couldn't stand feeling so tense. I can't wait until my levels come back from the lab. I wonder if my TSH anywhere near 0.5? It sure felt on the hyperthyroid end of the scale to me...But I am not sure I can function feeling so tired. Should I try to take half? I wish I could get a hold of my pdoc. But it's a holiday weekend, and she is gone. I think I got to go to bed now... I wish the thyroid was helpful. But honestly, I think it made me too nervous. At least at that dose (10mcgs). Any thoughts, anyone?
Chloe
Posted by Jonathan on November 9, 2002, at 23:35:09
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal???, posted by Chloe on November 9, 2002, at 10:25:25
> Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal???
>
> Hi Everybody,
> I quit the Cytomel 10 mcgs. I was so HOT and nervous and racy. I didn't like that feeling of being all cracked up. The first feeling I would have when I would wake up is anxiety. I have been off it since Wednesday, about 4 days. And my mood is fine. But I am soooo tired. I just want to nap and nap and nap. But I have to go to work this afternoon. I hope I can keep focused.
> I had a level drawn on Wednesday, when I had maintanence ECT. But my pdoc wasn't able to get into the computer to get my values. I haven't yet told my pdoc I stopped the T3. Do you think my energy level will pop back up? I was on the Cytomel a little over a week. Or could I take the Cytomel every other day? It's not really possible to cut the teeny pill in half effectively. It just turns into dust...
> But like I said, my mood is pretty good. I have been getting involved in more things, and even having fun! I never laughed so hard the other night. It was such a blast. The ECT has been so helpful. Now I am down to every other week and soon I will go to once a month. I am just not sure the T3 is/was helping. It was adding to my anxiety and making my fuse a bit shorter. I sure would like to know my thyroid values...Can adding thyroid to a normal thyroid cause damage?
> Hope you all are well,
> Chloe
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 10, 2002, at 0:35:48
In reply to To read above post, click 'Español' on top line :), posted by Jonathan on November 9, 2002, at 23:35:09
Hi Chloe...I remember that your taking Cytomel 5 mcg. seemed to prevent the crashes a week or two ago. Can't you stay on just the 5 mcg.? You absolutely do not have to worry about any damage to your thyroid gland as long as you take the correct dosage. You just need to be sure that the TSH doesn't go below about 0.5. Normal values for TSH range from 0.3 to 4.5. The reason for your taking T3 was because it is needed for emotional balance, and some people just don't convert some of their natural T4 to T3 the way they should.
If you begin crashing again, I would think 5 mcg. of Cytomel would be the safest, most effective medication that you could take as an adjunct. If you do fine without it- so much the better!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Chloe on November 10, 2002, at 9:59:01
In reply to To read above post, click 'Español' on top line :), posted by Jonathan on November 9, 2002, at 23:35:09
Posted by Chloe on November 10, 2002, at 10:07:13
In reply to Re: To read above post, click 'Español' on top line :) » Jonathan, posted by Pfinstegg on November 10, 2002, at 0:35:48
> Hi Chloe...I remember that your taking Cytomel 5 mcg. seemed to prevent the crashes a week or two ago. Can't you stay on just the 5 mcg.? You absolutely do not have to worry about any damage to your thyroid gland as long as you take the correct dosage. You just need to be sure that the TSH doesn't go below about 0.5. Normal values for TSH range from 0.3 to 4.5. The reason for your taking T3 was because it is needed for emotional balance, and some people just don't convert some of their natural T4 to T3 the way they should.
>
> If you begin crashing again, I would think 5 mcg. of Cytomel would be the safest, most effective medication that you could take as an adjunct. If you do fine without it- so much the better!
>
> Pfinstegg
>
>
Pfenstegg,
I think I am going to try 2.5 mcgs or whatever the pill cutter can do. It really just turns to dust, the pill is so small. But I think I had more energy and "verve" when I was taking the Cytomel. I am so sleepy, and it's hard to focus right now. But, 5 mcgs (I made a mistake with the 10 mcgs, I have never taken that much) is really too much, I get so sweaty and racy. I will experiment with half the dose while I wait for my pdoc to give me the report about my labs.
Thanks so much for answering. I am relieved I can't hurt my thyroid if I take a small, proper amount. I hope you are well.
Chloe
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 10, 2002, at 10:48:36
In reply to Re: T3-Cytomel » Pfinstegg, posted by Chloe on November 10, 2002, at 10:07:13
Hi Chloe..it sounds like you are really sensitive to the T3. But weren't you taking another medication which can also cause an elevated heart rate and sweating? I know what you mean about the pill size! I take 10 mcg. per day myself, and when I look at that tiny pill, it does look as if it would crumble altogether if I tried to cut it. Well, I guess you wouldn't be the first person to take a few crumbles while you wait to find out how your TSH is doing!
I am doing a bit better than I was, thank you. I am taking tianeptine and fish oil, in addition to the Cytomel. Because I have such high cortisol levels, and have read that they can be associated with memory problems after ECT, I am quite fearful of having that. Instead, I have decided to join a trial of rTMS in January. I think it's basically the same as ECT in its method of action, but they give it a little differently- daily for between two and five weeks, and there's no anesthesia involved.
Pfinstegg
Posted by jane d on November 10, 2002, at 11:43:35
In reply to T3 makes me feel too hot and anxious..., posted by Chloe on November 9, 2002, at 18:24:12
Chloe,
If you want to give Cytomel another try you can buy a pill splitter from the drugstore. I've found they work when using my fingernails just crumbles the pill. Also, if you are taking T4 too, try reducing the amount of T4 when you add the Cytomel. And Cytomel comes in 5mcg pills.
If you are more tired now than before you started the Cytomel I would guess it is just your reaction to stopping. Your body may have reduced the amount of thyroid hormone it was producing to compensate for the Cytomel (I'm not sure how long that takes) and it may take a while for your own production to go back to normal.
Jane
> I posted above, but it didn't "translate." So I wrote it again:
>
> I stopped the Cytomel (T3) two days ago. I was too hot and anxious. I feel much better now, but I am SOOO sleepy. I am dragging myself around. I ready for bed now and it's only 7pm.
>
> I tried to cut the pill, so I could take a smaller amount of T3. But it just turned to dust. Anyway, my mood seems pretty good without it, so far. I am MUCH less nervous, short fused and not sweating so. Hopefully, my energy level will pop back up to where it was pre-T3. I hope it's OK that I d/c'd it, cause I just couldn't stand feeling so tense. I can't wait until my levels come back from the lab. I wonder if my TSH anywhere near 0.5? It sure felt on the hyperthyroid end of the scale to me...But I am not sure I can function feeling so tired. Should I try to take half? I wish I could get a hold of my pdoc. But it's a holiday weekend, and she is gone. I think I got to go to bed now... I wish the thyroid was helpful. But honestly, I think it made me too nervous. At least at that dose (10mcgs). Any thoughts, anyone?
> Chloe
Posted by Chloe on November 10, 2002, at 19:23:20
In reply to Re: T3-Cytomel » Chloe, posted by Pfinstegg on November 10, 2002, at 10:48:36
> >Hi Chloe..it sounds like you are really sensitive to the T3. But weren't you taking another medication which can also cause an elevated heart rate and sweating? I know what you mean about the pill size! I take 10 mcg. per day myself, and when I look at that tiny pill, it does look as if it would crumble altogether if I tried to cut it. Well, I guess you wouldn't be the first person to take a few crumbles while you wait to find out how your TSH is doing!
Hi Pfinstegg,
Yes, I am taking Celexa, an SSRI which can really make me hot and sweaty if I take too much. BUT, I was only taking a milligram and a half to begin with. The starting dose is 20 mgs. I have backed the Celexa down to 0.5 mgs and I added back in the 2.5 mcgs of Cytomel and I don't feel anything so far. I am sooo sleepy. I am ready to go to bed 3 hours early again! But I think I will stay at 2.5 mcgs until I hear what my level was...>> I am doing a bit better than I was, thank you. I am taking tianeptine and fish oil, in addition to the Cytomel. Because I have such high cortisol levels, and have read that they can be associated with memory problems after ECT, I am quite fearful of having that. Instead, I have decided to join a trial of rTMS in January. I think it's basically the same as ECT in its method of action, but they give it a little differently- daily for between two and five weeks, and there's no anesthesia involved.
>
> PfinsteggThat rTMS sounds very interesting. And how nice nice to have to deal with anesthesia. It was mentioned to me, but ruled out, because I was too depressed to try something so new. ECT has been so helpful to me. I never imagined I could feel so good. I am really enjoying laughing again! I was missing out on so much of life. I truly hope rTMS works for you, and effectively "squeezes" the three lobes of your brain so you have more proteins and neurotransmitters available to you. That's how ECT works anyway...Glad you are doing a bit better :)
Chloe
Posted by Chloe on November 10, 2002, at 19:35:46
In reply to Re: T3 makes me feel too hot and anxious... » Chloe, posted by jane d on November 10, 2002, at 11:43:35
> Chloe,
>
> If you want to give Cytomel another try you can buy a pill splitter from the drugstore. I've found they work when using my fingernails just crumbles the pill. Also, if you are taking T4 too, try reducing the amount of T4 when you add the Cytomel. And Cytomel comes in 5mcg pills.
>
> If you are more tired now than before you started the Cytomel I would guess it is just your reaction to stopping. Your body may have reduced the amount of thyroid hormone it was producing to compensate for the Cytomel (I'm not sure how long that takes) and it may take a while for your own production to go back to normal.
>
> Jane
>
Hi Jane,
Wow, I was only taking the Cytomel for about ten days. Do you think that is enough time to shut down my thyroid? I am not taking any T4, my pdoc did not think it was necessary for cycling...I am not taking it for depressed thyroid levels.
I did get a pill cutter, and I was able to kinda cut the pill evenly in half. As I wrote in the above post, I really don't feel anything from taking it. But that is fine. When I took the whole pill my heart was racing and I was so sweaty. I was uncomfortable.
But now I am still so sleepy. It's really ridiculous. I am sort of dragging myself around. And yesterday at work, I had to work so hard just to stay alert. I hope I didn't screw up my thyroid. I wish my pdoc would come back from the weekend and give me my lab results. Figures it a holiday weekend!
Thanks for writing
Chloe
Posted by jane d on November 10, 2002, at 21:53:44
In reply to Re: T3 makes me feel too hot and anxious... » jane d, posted by Chloe on November 10, 2002, at 19:35:46
> Wow, I was only taking the Cytomel for about ten days. Do you think that is enough time to shut down my thyroid? I am not taking any T4, my
Chloe,
I think this was already answered but no, I don't think you screwed up your thyroid. Even if some of your own thyroid production was suppressed a little bit it should go back to normal soon. The same thing happened to me when I took too much T3 - racing heart, sweating, etc. It went away as soon as I reduced the dose. I don't remember being fatigued then but I did need a few days to get used to each new dose.
Jane
Posted by Chloe on November 11, 2002, at 9:29:14
In reply to Re: T3 makes me feel too hot and anxious... » Chloe, posted by jane d on November 10, 2002, at 21:53:44
>> I think this was already answered but no, I don't think you screwed up your thyroid. Even if some of your own thyroid production was suppressed a little bit it should go back to normal soon. The same thing happened to me when I took too much T3 - racing heart, sweating, etc. It went away as soon as I reduced the dose. I don't remember being fatigued then but I did need a few days to get used to each new dose.
>
> JaneThank you, Jane for *again* reassuring me. Half a pill or 2.5 mcgs so far doesn't seem to be doing much. And my pdoc said I could easily go back to 5 mcgs based on my lab results...T3 is 63, range is 60-170; T4 is .7, range is .7 to 1.8; and TSH is 0.58, range .3 to 5.0.
I am not sure exactly what these values mean. But my pdoc said my T3 is "definitely not too high." I do know that the lower the TSH, the more hyper-thyroid one is. Isn't 0.58 on the *hyper* side? If anyone feels like explain what these mean, I would be all ears! Thanks everyone for all your info and support. This thyroid stuff is so new to me...
Yours,
Chloe
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 11, 2002, at 10:13:02
In reply to Re:I got my thyroid lab results, posted by Chloe on November 11, 2002, at 9:29:14
Chloe..those thyroid results are ideal. The TSH is not in the hyperthyroid range at all- it is close to the low limit of normal. This means that the Cytomel(T3) you are taking, plus the T4 your body is naturally producing are at good enough levels that your brain only needs to produce a low level of thyroid stimulating hormone(TSH). It is just about perfect, both to protect you from depression and to ensure that your thyroid gland remains healthy. Whether you take 5 mcg., or try to go for 2.5, you are doing really, really well!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Ritch on November 11, 2002, at 10:36:02
In reply to Re:I got my thyroid lab results, posted by Chloe on November 11, 2002, at 9:29:14
> >> I think this was already answered but no, I don't think you screwed up your thyroid. Even if some of your own thyroid production was suppressed a little bit it should go back to normal soon. The same thing happened to me when I took too much T3 - racing heart, sweating, etc. It went away as soon as I reduced the dose. I don't remember being fatigued then but I did need a few days to get used to each new dose.
> >
> > Jane
>
> Thank you, Jane for *again* reassuring me. Half a pill or 2.5 mcgs so far doesn't seem to be doing much. And my pdoc said I could easily go back to 5 mcgs based on my lab results...T3 is 63, range is 60-170; T4 is .7, range is .7 to 1.8; and TSH is 0.58, range .3 to 5.0.
>
> I am not sure exactly what these values mean. But my pdoc said my T3 is "definitely not too high." I do know that the lower the TSH, the more hyper-thyroid one is. Isn't 0.58 on the *hyper* side? If anyone feels like explain what these mean, I would be all ears! Thanks everyone for all your info and support. This thyroid stuff is so new to me...
> Yours,
> Chloe
>
>Hi Chloe,
So, these blood draws were done when you were taking the 5mcg. Cytomel for a little while, or when you tried the 10mcg. dose? Your free T3 and free T4 values do seem a little on the low side given the relativey low TSH value (maybe they were taken quite some time after your last Cytomel dose). Did your pdoc properly inform you of when to dose your Cytomel relative to the blood draw? Your pdoc's advice about staying at 5mcg. sounds reasonable. I know what you mean about SSRI-induced sweating and feeling hot. The tiny pinch of Effexor I am on really sets it off like crazy. I tried taking it at bedtime for a couple of nights, but couldn't sleep on it for a while because of the sweatiness---Mitch
Posted by Chloe on November 11, 2002, at 11:25:45
In reply to Re:I got my thyroid lab results » Chloe, posted by Ritch on November 11, 2002, at 10:36:02
> Hi Chloe,
>
> So, these blood draws were done when you were taking the 5mcg. Cytomel for a little while, or when you tried the 10mcg. dose? Your free T3 and free T4 values do seem a little on the low side given the relativey low TSH value (maybe they were taken quite some time after your last Cytomel dose). Did your pdoc properly inform you of when to dose your Cytomel relative to the blood draw? Your pdoc's advice about staying at 5mcg. sounds reasonable. I know what you mean about SSRI-induced sweating and feeling hot. The tiny pinch of Effexor I am on really sets it off like crazy. I tried taking it at bedtime for a couple of nights, but couldn't sleep on it for a while because of the sweatiness---MitchHi Mitch,
I don't know when I was supposed to take my last dose before the blood draw. I took the 5 mcgs of Cytomel about 24 hours or the morning before the day I got it drawn. Is that correct? What does a low free T4 and T3 mean? Isn't my TSH pretty low? Or in the hyperthyroid range, which would lead to the sweating, etc?For the last two days I have taken 2.5 mcgs which has really helped with the sweating. Though my armpits are all broken out from the sweating period I went through. And the rash just doesn't seem to clear up. Hum. I am also still SO sleepy. I can't seem to snap out of being half asleep. I tried cutting down on my benzo, but that didn't seem to make any difference in the tired department. But did make my fuse a bit shorter. I will get this balanced out somehow. I do think it would help if it didn't get dark at 4 pm everyday. I am ready for bed by 7 pm! Are you now taking the effexor in the am? Or did you can it completely due to the sweating? I hope you are feeling good...
Thanks for your reply
Chloe
Posted by Chloe on November 11, 2002, at 11:31:55
In reply to Re:I got my thyroid lab results » Chloe, posted by Pfinstegg on November 11, 2002, at 10:13:02
> Chloe..those thyroid results are ideal. The TSH is not in the hyperthyroid range at all- it is close to the low limit of normal. This means that the Cytomel(T3) you are taking, plus the T4 your body is naturally producing are at good enough levels that your brain only needs to produce a low level of thyroid stimulating hormone(TSH). It is just about perfect, both to protect you from depression and to ensure that your thyroid gland remains healthy. Whether you take 5 mcg., or try to go for 2.5, you are doing really, really well!
>
> PfinsteggPfinstegg,
Thanks for your great reply. I am so glad that all is within normal limits. I am going to keep at the 2.5 mcgs for at least today. If I am still dragging so tomorrow, I will go back up to the 5 mcgs, where the lab results were drawn.
Your support means so much to me :-)
Chloe
Posted by Jumpy on November 11, 2002, at 16:26:28
In reply to Re:I got my thyroid lab results, posted by Chloe on November 11, 2002, at 9:29:14
> I am not sure exactly what these values mean. But my pdoc said my T3 is "definitely not too high." I do know that the lower the TSH, the more hyper-thyroid one is. Isn't 0.58 on the *hyper* side? If anyone feels like explain what these mean, I would be all ears! Thanks everyone for all your info and support. This thyroid stuff is so new to me...
Dear Chloe,
This is what I learned about the thyroid in college. Thyroid hormone controls metabolism, the higher the level in the blood the faster the metabolism. The active hormone is T3, it goes in to the cells and speeds them up. The inactive hormone is T4, it must be converted in the blood to T3 before it can work. If the thyroid hormones get too low, the brain secretes TSH (Thyroid stimulating hormone) to cause the thyroid to produce more thyroid hormone. So if the TSH is high, the thyroid is level is low. If the TSH is low, the thyroid is high. (Unless, you have some weird disease like Graves, thyroiditis, etc.)
So the important thing is that 1. the T3 be normal and 2. the TSH needs to be checked 6 weeks after adjusting your dose of thyroid medications ... takes that long to adjust.
Jumpy
PS I would never take thyroid meds, I am far too jumpy
Posted by Ritch on November 11, 2002, at 20:22:23
In reply to Re:I got my thyroid lab results » Ritch, posted by Chloe on November 11, 2002, at 11:25:45
> > Hi Chloe,
> >
> > So, these blood draws were done when you were taking the 5mcg. Cytomel for a little while, or when you tried the 10mcg. dose? Your free T3 and free T4 values do seem a little on the low side given the relativey low TSH value (maybe they were taken quite some time after your last Cytomel dose). Did your pdoc properly inform you of when to dose your Cytomel relative to the blood draw? Your pdoc's advice about staying at 5mcg. sounds reasonable. I know what you mean about SSRI-induced sweating and feeling hot. The tiny pinch of Effexor I am on really sets it off like crazy. I tried taking it at bedtime for a couple of nights, but couldn't sleep on it for a while because of the sweatiness---Mitch
>
> Hi Mitch,
> I don't know when I was supposed to take my last dose before the blood draw. I took the 5 mcgs of Cytomel about 24 hours or the morning before the day I got it drawn. Is that correct? What does a low free T4 and T3 mean? Isn't my TSH pretty low? Or in the hyperthyroid range, which would lead to the sweating, etc?
>
> For the last two days I have taken 2.5 mcgs which has really helped with the sweating. Though my armpits are all broken out from the sweating period I went through. And the rash just doesn't seem to clear up. Hum. I am also still SO sleepy. I can't seem to snap out of being half asleep. I tried cutting down on my benzo, but that didn't seem to make any difference in the tired department. But did make my fuse a bit shorter. I will get this balanced out somehow. I do think it would help if it didn't get dark at 4 pm everyday. I am ready for bed by 7 pm! Are you now taking the effexor in the am? Or did you can it completely due to the sweating? I hope you are feeling good...
> Thanks for your reply
> Chloe
>
>Hi Chloe, I take the Effexor midday with lunch now. It seems to be the best compromise between upset stomach in the morning or sweatiness at night. I've had to cut the Depakote in half-it is causing way too much sleepiness for this time of year, I also added back a little bit of oxcarbazepine (Trileptal), to offset it. The OXC is a little activating, so I like that, just not the nausea. I know little about the blood draw timings for thyroid. I just know that generally free T3-T4 and TSH tend to have an inverse relationship. Jumpy is correct about the feedback loop. If your free T3-T4 goes up (let's say because of taking thyroid hormone), your TSH level should begin to fall (at some point) because that is the hormone that stimulates your thyroid to make more of your own T3-T4. It is like saying: "Well, it looks like there is plenty of T3/T4, cut down the amount of TSH so we don't get too much more." So your TSH drops in an attempt to slow down your thyroid gland. It just *seems* weird that if you are taking thyroid supplementation (Cytomel), that your free T3/T4 levels are so close to the *bottom* of the normal range. Could you ask your pdoc about it? You might need a referral to an endocrinologist.---Mitch
Posted by Jumpy on November 11, 2002, at 20:57:01
In reply to Re:I got my thyroid lab results, posted by Chloe on November 11, 2002, at 9:29:14
Hey Chloe,
Gosh, your TSH is awefully low and close to being hyperthyroid. But, remember the TSH doesn't reach a steady level til *6 weeks* after you have been on a stable dose of thyroid medication. The T4 is the inactive hormone varies tremendously on the thyroid binding proteins in the blood. What is more accurate is the "Free T4" which the free part that gets converted to T3 and goes into the cell and speeds up the metabolism. Becareful with high thyroid levels ... over time can cause heart arrhymthias, weak bones, weak heart, etc.
Jumpy
PS T3 and T4 just refer to the number of iodine molecules on the thyroid hormone. T4 has one iodine cleaved off to make T3.
Posted by Chloe on November 11, 2002, at 22:05:39
In reply to Re:I got my thyroid lab results » Chloe, posted by Jumpy on November 11, 2002, at 20:57:01
Hey Mitch and Jumpy,
If I understand this right, TSH goes up when there is a lack of thyroid hormone available. BUT, my TSH is on the low side AND so are my thyroid hormones, T3 and T4. Hum, I wonder if I should ask my pdoc about this so I could get a referral to an endocrinologist...I'm tired of seeing doctors...
I am finding I am graaaadully waking up a bit and feeling more alert on 2.5 mcgs. I think I will keep the dose on the small side, even though splitting this teeny weeny crumbly pill is a pain in the neck. I don't want to feel tense and "jumpy." But I don't think I have to worry about high thyroid at this point. My T3 and T4 are almost as low as they can go.
I appreciate the info. What an interesting gland the thyroid is. I never really gave it much thought until now...
Many thanks
Chloe
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