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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cybercafe on October 28, 2002, at 17:13:04
whats the difference between ADHD and just being totally bored all the time, staring at the clock no matter what job you've got, etc
Posted by IsoM on October 28, 2002, at 18:59:41
In reply to ADHD, posted by cybercafe on October 28, 2002, at 17:13:04
Are you seriously asking, or are you feeling very fed up with your low motivation & concentration?
With ADHD, I can get very hyper when doing something. But I have a wide range of different interests & perhaps you don't. But I can find a way to make almost anything interesting or challenging to compensate when I'd otherwise be bored.
If you have ADHD, the H (hyperactivity) would figure in some way or another, even if it was just in the form of distractions, doodling, fooling about, or whatever. Do you see any signs of it at all?
Posted by utopizen on October 28, 2002, at 21:51:09
In reply to Re: ADHD » cybercafe, posted by IsoM on October 28, 2002, at 18:59:41
> If you have ADHD, the H (hyperactivity) would figure in some way or another, even if it was just in the form of distractions, doodling, fooling about, or whatever. Do you see any signs of it at all?
>The DSM-IV does *not* note that at all. The word "hyperactivity" is clearly defined- it does not indicate any vague, multi-definition use to this word.
There are thee types of ADHD:
-ADHD with hyperactivity
-ADHD without hyperactivity ("inattentive type")
-ADHD combination of these twoIt is *very* clearly stated in the DSM-IV that hyperactivity is *not* a necessary component. So honestly, who told you this, IsoM? Hyperactivity is a HIGHLY defined term, it is ANYTHING but vague.
Anyway, ADHD also must have presented itself prior to the age of 7. So you may hear the term "Adult ADHD" kicked around a lot on the 'net, but hopefully those using it realize that it's assumed that anyone with actual (read: actual) ADHD did have its symptoms prior to the age of 7.
There's no way to "disagree" here- if someone honestly believes they got ADHD past the age of 7, then they should make up a new term for themselves, because it ain't ADHD.
Now, this is not to be confused with simply not getting it diagnosed until adulthood- I had ADHD inattentive subtype since at least 3, and didn't get diagnosed until 18.
More accurately, though, adults with ADHD shouldn't be saying "adult ADHD". Rather, they should use "adult WITH ADHD". Maybe some doctors use this, I dunno, I don't care, it's illogical, because it implies it's a certain subtype, one which doesn't actually exist.
Then again, crying for this battle is as useless as trying to convince someone why it's illogical to say "animal" when they mean to say "nonhuman animal". Sometimes people say something so long that they assume it follows a logical process...
But then again, if you don't follow the DSM-IV, I suppose you can always write your own : )
Posted by IsoM on October 29, 2002, at 12:31:40
In reply to No, the word hyperactivity isn't vague..., posted by utopizen on October 28, 2002, at 21:51:09
"But then again, if you don't follow the DSM-IV, I suppose you can always write your own : )"
I guess it does come down to this. I think the DSM is useful to 'guide' one along, but I don't agree with the effort to pigeon-hole everything so neatly. There's disorders, problems (?) in many people that overlaps different disorders. Other times, there's disorders (I HATE that term) that don't quite fit any category.
I've been a hyper sort of person even as a small child. My knees were constantly scabbed over from running all the time instead of walking, but I was a klutz & fell often. My legs were covered with bruises. I've always been VERY active. But when not in the 'hyper' mood, I'm lethargic. I have two gears - full speed ahead & idle. So perhaps you might label me as ADHD - a combo of hyperactivity & inattentive.
But I, myself (disclaimer here - but I know others do too), call the ADHD without hyperactivity (inattentive type) plain ADD - no hyperactivity. Seeing I live in Canada, perhaps the terminology varies somewhat from the States. I've never talked with anyone (people with ADD, doctors, or the two psychologists I discussed it with) who called ADHD/inattentive type anything but ADD.
Posted by vince on October 29, 2002, at 23:51:00
In reply to ADHD, posted by cybercafe on October 28, 2002, at 17:13:04
Cybercafe are you still on parnate and Zyprexa?
I'm on Zyprexa with anafrinil for anxiety, but I think parnate might work better. I'm afraid though that Zyprexa and parnate might make my blood pressure to low. How did you do with the combination.
I also wonder if MAOI's (especially parnate) would help with ADD or ADHD? My teenage son has ADD and some degree of social phobia. Just wondering if an MAOI might help.
Vince
Posted by utopizen on October 30, 2002, at 0:35:13
In reply to Re: No, the word hyperactivity isn't vague... » utopizen, posted by IsoM on October 29, 2002, at 12:31:40
Seeing I live in Canada, perhaps the terminology varies somewhat from the States. I've never talked with anyone (people with ADD, doctors, or the two psychologists I discussed it with) who called ADHD/inattentive type anything but ADD.
>>they're not necessarily "wrong", it's just that technically the inattentive subtype is considered "ADHD without hyperactivity, inattentive". It would be illogical to think that a subtype that is a category within ADHD could suddenly stop being ADHD.
Think of ADHD as a tree, and then think of three branches on the ADHD tree. Since you can't make up a new tree, you have to hop to one of the branches. And one of these branches is the inattentive subtype. It still is a subtype, and not a separate disorder.
Posted by IsoM on October 30, 2002, at 1:32:07
In reply to Re: No, the word hyperactivity isn't vague..., posted by utopizen on October 30, 2002, at 0:35:13
I do agree with you but I had labelled the trunk of the disorder as ADD, whereas you label the trunk ADHD. Branches were called ADD - inattentive type, hyperactive type, & so on. Otherwise, we agree except for the one letter. :)
So when I hear ADHD (with the H implying hyperactivity) that's what I think. Not all the pschologists I know rely on the DSM that much. But it is handy as a reference.
Posted by utopizen on October 30, 2002, at 6:47:40
In reply to Re: No, the word hyperactivity isn't vague... » utopizen, posted by IsoM on October 30, 2002, at 1:32:07
ADD is a very modern way of saying ADHD, mostly done to shorten things.
Moreover, many who use it still assume a hyperactivity component for ADD anyway.
It seems complicated, but it's actually more logical and simpler to assume ADHD as the disorder to begin with, since no disorder called ADD actually exists.
Furthermore, what doctors say to their patients and to their colleagues are two different things. There's a practice called "explanatory fiction" doctors use. They describe things to their patients using falsehoods that help the patient basically understand a concept.
For example, if a surgery removes a cataract from one's eye, it uses sonic waves to do this. But instead of needlessly going on to explain what sonic waves are, a doctor just says it's "laser surgery" because the patient really doesn't need to know the technical term.
Posted by IsoM on October 30, 2002, at 14:23:43
In reply to Re: No, the word hyperactivity isn't vague..., posted by utopizen on October 30, 2002, at 6:47:40
...would you say then that he could be diagnosed ADHD then? Because it sounds, using that definition, that he could easily have the *inattentive* type of ADHD, though not necessarily. Correct?
Posted by utopizen on October 30, 2002, at 18:53:25
In reply to So back to cybercafe's question.... » utopizen, posted by IsoM on October 30, 2002, at 14:23:43
yup. if it's diabling to linkadge's life.
> ...would you say then that he could be diagnosed ADHD then? Because it sounds, using that definition, that he could easily have the *inattentive* type of ADHD, though not necessarily. Correct?
Posted by cybercafe on October 30, 2002, at 18:58:34
In reply to Cybercafe - Off topic. » cybercafe, posted by vince on October 29, 2002, at 23:51:00
> Cybercafe are you still on parnate and Zyprexa?
Yeppers. And it seems like my mood is both stable and non depressed.
> I'm on Zyprexa with anafrinil for anxiety, but I think parnate might work better. I'm afraid though that Zyprexa and parnate might make my blood pressure to low. How did you do with the combination.Parnate decreased my anxiety but didn't eliminate it.
I take clonazepam to fully eliminate the anxiety.
Thankfully, parnate is very activating so i am not
as bothered by clonazepam's sedation...zyprexa (5mg) i take simply to keep my moods consistent
> I also wonder if MAOI's (especially parnate) would help with ADD or ADHD? My teenage son has ADD and some degree of social phobia. Just wondering if an MAOI might help.I'm sure parnate is better than nothing (in terms of stimulation).
But the problem is ... i don't think you can combine an MAOI with
a stimulant ...(I havn't been diagnosed with ADHD yet btw)
Posted by cybercafe on October 30, 2002, at 19:02:05
In reply to Re: So back to cybercafe's question...., posted by utopizen on October 30, 2002, at 18:53:25
> yup. if it's diabling to linkadge's life.
>
>
> > ...would you say then that he could be diagnosed ADHD then? Because it sounds, using that definition, that he could easily have the *inattentive* type of ADHD, though not necessarily. Correct?i find it very hard to even hold down a part time job
because i just feel overwhelmed with boredom interspersed with brief periods of hyperactive productivity (brought on by fear of being fired? this may be anxiety who knows)i don't know if i'm
a. still mildly depressed
b. anxious, work too hard, and get burned out on a daily basis
c. suffering from ADHDi only really started suffering from mood disorders to a signifigant degree after i came to the conclusion that i just couldn't hold down a job (due to unbearable boredom or impatience)
Posted by cybercafe on October 30, 2002, at 19:05:25
In reply to Cybercafe - Off topic. » cybercafe, posted by vince on October 29, 2002, at 23:51:00
OOps missed this> I'm on Zyprexa with anafrinil for anxiety, but I think parnate might work better. I'm afraid though that Zyprexa and parnate might make my blood pressure to low. How did you do with the combination.
I'm taking the lowest therapeutic dosages (5 and 30 mg) i believe of parnate and zyprexa
at first parnate gave me hypotension, but after say 3 weeks it was gone. Zyprexa had no noticeable effect on my blood pressure
Thanks to everyone who replied to my post
Posted by IsoM on October 30, 2002, at 19:14:02
In reply to Re: So back to cybercafe's question...., posted by cybercafe on October 30, 2002, at 19:02:05
So how about getting tested to see if a pschologist thinks you have ADHD? Or is it too expensive? If it is, have you ever tried the long questionnaires to see if you may have it? It's not a sure thing but would give you an indication that you could use to discuss with your doctor.
You might want to look at these tests:
http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?id=974&type=doc&cn=ADHD
http://www.amenclinic.com/ac/addtests/adult1.asp
Posted by utopizen on October 30, 2002, at 19:56:16
In reply to Re: So back to cybercafe's question.... » cybercafe, posted by IsoM on October 30, 2002, at 19:14:02
> So how about getting tested to see if a pschologist thinks you have ADHD? Or is it too expensive? If it is, have you ever tried the long questionnaires to see if you may have it? It's not a sure thing but would give you an indication that you could use to discuss with your doctor.
My PPO doesn't cover ADD tests, because they consider it "educational" and not "medical" in origin.
It'll cost me $1000-$2000. I need them only for college accomodations, even though my add meds are fine and these tests won't make me do any better than I already am.
Posted by IsoM on October 30, 2002, at 20:23:32
In reply to Re: So back to cybercafe's question...., posted by utopizen on October 30, 2002, at 19:56:16
Yeah, my health care wouldn't cover the costs either but I found the services of a pretty good pschologist that works for the local school board. He tests kids for learning disabilities & other pschological disorders. Because he could use the extra money, he also works part-time in the evenings, hnadling adults. The testing cost much less that way & it was still considered expert testing.
I saved for the testing as the label of 'disability' made for accomadations for me in the Disability Centre at our university. Because of my 'ability' to drop data from lists in y head when working on problems I'm not familiar with, I was able to request time & a half for exams. I was also able to work in a quiet room by myself on exams without any distractions & where I could talk problems & calculations outloud to myself. Talking over problems make them much easier to do for me & even if I did it in a whisper, would be distracting to other students.
I never needed to do it with the more right-brained subjects like geography, geology, & English but I sure appreciated it for the left-brained sciences & math exams. It made all the difference for me.
Posted by vince on October 30, 2002, at 20:45:12
In reply to Re: Cybercafe - Off topic., posted by cybercafe on October 30, 2002, at 18:58:34
So how low did your blood go to with parnate and zyprexa together?
Vince
Posted by utopizen on October 30, 2002, at 20:58:40
In reply to Re: ADHD tests that cost... » utopizen, posted by IsoM on October 30, 2002, at 20:23:32
I'm trying to get it for accomodations so I can get placed out of the foreign language requirement.
Regarding your right-brained comment... I wonder if a person with inattentive ADD exists who likes math... just curious.
me, I'm an English major. Paradise after high school- just the thought of selecting what courses to take beyond my core.
Posted by cybercafe on October 31, 2002, at 12:36:10
In reply to Re: ADHD tests that cost..., posted by utopizen on October 30, 2002, at 20:58:40
> I'm trying to get it for accomodations so I can get placed out of the foreign language requirement.
>
> Regarding your right-brained comment... I wonder if a person with inattentive ADD exists who likes math... just curious.
>
> me, I'm an English major. Paradise after high school- just the thought of selecting what courses to take beyond my core.what? i loved math... i could do it really quick, and get it over with
math was like -- i was motivated to work, cuz you just quickly focus and learn that one trick to solving a problem, and then everything is easy
english always took so much concentration and thinking
then i graduated from school
now that i'm older, in jobs where you are expected to work xx hours no matter how fast you go, i bloody hate math ....
or anything without some personal interaction...that's why i'm thinking ADD led to depression for me... cuz i no longer have a reason to hyper focus (don't get paid accordingly or if i finish my work at noon i can't get leave and go home)
my doc says he's trying to get the ADD tests for me but i don't understand what the problem is? isn't it just like the MMPI or something.... just like 10 questions they ask you ??
Posted by cybercafe on October 31, 2002, at 12:37:14
In reply to Re: Cybercafe - Off topic. » cybercafe, posted by vince on October 30, 2002, at 20:45:12
> So how low did your blood go to with parnate and zyprexa together?
i never had any symptoms of low blood pressure when i started zyprexa, so i didn't bother to check
Posted by cybercafe on October 31, 2002, at 12:53:45
In reply to Re: So back to cybercafe's question...., posted by utopizen on October 30, 2002, at 19:56:16
> > So how about getting tested to see if a pschologist thinks you have ADHD? Or is it too expensive? If it is, have you ever tried the long questionnaires to see if you may have it? It's not a sure thing but would give you an indication that you could use to discuss with your doctor.
>
> My PPO doesn't cover ADD tests, because they consider it "educational" and not "medical" in origin.
>
> It'll cost me $1000-$2000. I need them only for college accomodations, even though my add meds are fine and these tests won't make me do any better than I already am.
>Those links that were posted contained two questionnaires.
Is this thousand dollar test just filling out a questoinnaire? Seems a bit expensive to meI guess my biggest fear is that I can't take a stimulant with an MAOI so i'll have to stop taking parnate ?
No... my biggest fear is that by the time i get a diagnosis and treatment my life will have passed me by!
Thanks for the replies guys :)
Posted by vince on October 31, 2002, at 14:56:23
In reply to Re: Cybercafe - Off topic., posted by cybercafe on October 31, 2002, at 12:37:14
> > So how low did your go to with parnate and zyprexa together?
>
> i never had any symptoms of low pressure when i started zyprexa, so i didn't bother to check
>Sorry to be so buggy, but how much of each do you take?
Vince
Posted by cybercafe on November 1, 2002, at 13:42:34
In reply to Re: Cybercafe - Off topic. » cybercafe, posted by vince on October 31, 2002, at 14:56:23
> > > So how low did your go to with parnate and zyprexa together?
> >
> > i never had any symptoms of low pressure when i started zyprexa, so i didn't bother to check
> >
>
> Sorry to be so buggy, but how much of each do you take?
30 mg parnate, 5 mg zyprexa
Posted by vince on November 1, 2002, at 23:41:35
In reply to Re: Cybercafe - Off topic., posted by cybercafe on November 1, 2002, at 13:42:34
>
> 30 mg parnate, 5 mg zyprexa
>Have you had any problem with gaining unwanted weight?
I think the D2 antagonist effect of Zyprexa might be responsible for the weight gain experienced by most users. Do you know if Parnate is a D2 (dopamine 2) agonist. I know that parnate metabolized into amphetamine but I'm not sure how that would effect the D2 receptor.
If you're not having problems gaining weight then maybe parnate is offsetting the weight gain properties of Zyprexa.
Vince
Posted by cybercafe on November 3, 2002, at 15:39:01
In reply to Re: Cybercafe - Off topic. » cybercafe, posted by vince on November 1, 2002, at 23:41:35
> >
> > 30 mg parnate, 5 mg zyprexa
> >
>
> Have you had any problem with gaining unwanted weight?
>
> I think the D2 antagonist effect of Zyprexa might be responsible for the weight gain experienced by most users. Do you know if Parnate is a D2 (dopamine 2) agonist. I know that parnate metabolized into amphetamine but I'm not sure how that would effect the D2 receptor.
>
> If you're not having problems gaining weight then maybe parnate is offsetting the weight gain properties of Zyprexa.at first i gained about 5 pounds on zyprexa, but i stopped craving food (and lost the weight) after about a month
This is the end of the thread.
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