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Posted by Pfinstegg on October 24, 2002, at 22:39:27
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal???, posted by Chloe on October 24, 2002, at 19:17:23
That's so interesting- just T3 for bipolar according to the psych. literature. You have a great pdoc, reading new articles and e-mailing you back so quickly! I'm looking forward to hearing how it works for you- and GOOD LUCK with it.
Pfinstegg
Posted by Chloe on October 25, 2002, at 18:09:07
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Chloe, posted by Ritch on October 24, 2002, at 22:33:36
> > Mitch, Pfinstegg,
> > Thank you both for the info on T3 and 4. Thanks Mitch for the link. But my pdoc wrote back to me after reading the NEJM article:"The support in the psychiatric literature is for the
> > use of T3 only to ameliorate rapid cycling, especially in people taking
> > antidepressants." So she called in T3 to my pharmacy. I will pick it up tomorrow. And she is going to check my TSH in about two weeks. I am just petrified it's going to make me racy and agitated. But I am trying to have an open mind, and hopefully it will help my rapid cycling. I' ll keep you posted. You guys have been great! Thanks so much
> > Chloe
>
> Just the T3? I would still try it, Chloe. She probably knows how med sensitive you are and won't give you but a small dose to see how you do. I think with T3 only you will need to take it 3-4x daily. That means it will wash out fast.Hi Mitch,
My pdoc called in 5 mcgs of Cytomel. I am to take one per day, perferably on a empty stomach in the morning. As it turns out T3 has a half life of about 2 and a 1/2 half days, so once a day dosing seems adequete. According to the PDR, you are supposed to start out at 5 mcgs, and stay at that for two weeks. Then get a level, and adjust the dose from there...
Even though I did not test as hypothyroid, sometimes I feel like I am. My hair has been falling out for several months. It's extremely thin and dry now. I seem to have other slowed downed symptoms too. Sometimes I am so tired I could just drop. I dragged myself around today. It's only 7 pm, but I feel like I could easily cash in for the night right now. It's either I feel drop dead tired, or I am racing and high as a kite. Finding and staying in the middle is for me right now. I hope this Cytomel helps. I took 5 mcgs this afternoon and don't feel anything so far. At least it didn't make me all sped up like I feared, Phew!
Hope you are doing ok. Did you get off the WB and ritalin yet?
Chloe
>
>
Posted by Chloe on October 25, 2002, at 18:26:03
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Chloe, posted by Pfinstegg on October 24, 2002, at 22:39:27
> That's so interesting- just T3 for bipolar according to the psych. literature. You have a great pdoc, reading new articles and e-mailing you back so quickly! I'm looking forward to hearing how it works for you- and GOOD LUCK with it.
>
> PfinsteggPfinstegg,
Yes, my pdoc is great with e-mail. I think I found a medium that she feels comfortable with. For years I would try to reach her by phone and it could be days or more before she would get back to me. And the conversations tended to be quite stilted and awkward. With the computer, she usually gets back to me within a day, and with alot of detail, support, information, etc. It really is working out very well.Pfinstegg, in an earlier post you said 12.5 ug's of Cytomel is a good place to start. How does a ug compare to a mcg? Or how much is a ug? I know you take t3 and t4, could you tell me again how much you take and how it makes you feel? And do you notice any side effects? Thankfully, I have no side effects so far...The bottle of Cytomel says it has "no known side effects if it's taken correctly." Do you think 5 mcgs is enough to do anything positive for me? If I am making you repeat yourself I am sorry. My memory isn't what it used to be...
Thanks again
Chloe
Posted by Ritch on October 25, 2002, at 20:35:53
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Ritch, posted by Chloe on October 25, 2002, at 18:09:07
> Hi Mitch,
> My pdoc called in 5 mcgs of Cytomel. I am to take one per day, perferably on a empty stomach in the morning. As it turns out T3 has a half life of about 2 and a 1/2 half days, so once a day dosing seems adequete. According to the PDR, you are supposed to start out at 5 mcgs, and stay at that for two weeks. Then get a level, and adjust the dose from there...
> Even though I did not test as hypothyroid, sometimes I feel like I am. My hair has been falling out for several months. It's extremely thin and dry now. I seem to have other slowed downed symptoms too. Sometimes I am so tired I could just drop. I dragged myself around today. It's only 7 pm, but I feel like I could easily cash in for the night right now. It's either I feel drop dead tired, or I am racing and high as a kite. Finding and staying in the middle is for me right now. I hope this Cytomel helps. I took 5 mcgs this afternoon and don't feel anything so far. At least it didn't make me all sped up like I feared, Phew!
> Hope you are doing ok. Did you get off the WB and ritalin yet?
> ChloeChloe, that is interesting (once a day)? Oh well, so much for how memory serves me. My Mom is clinically hypothyroid. She has had two thyroid surgeries-I've had one-both of us have only half a thyroid now. I knew that my Mom's last thyroid tumor was cancerous and I *thought* she told me that it was all removed the last time. But, I told her I can't understand how she can get by without thyroid hormone replacement with NO thyroid. So, I told her that I think they just removed a tumor the first surgery, and then the 2nd surgery they took 1/2 the thyroid. She can't remember for sure! Anyhow, she always complains about being cold all the time, being constipated, her skin is dry, thin, and flaky. I have told her several times over the last year: HELLO, get your TSH checked and take supplements! She never gets around to it. She will take some Dilantin if she feels any kind of feeling that she used to experience before she had her seizures at night, but she won't go get her thyroid hormones checked. You see, when she had her last surgery and her TSH was too high, they put her on T4, but the dose was way too high, and she did get nervous on it and didn't like it so she just quit it. The endo she was seeing wasn't very flexible to say the least.
Oh, I've been off the WB for about three days now. Feel LOTS better. The Ritalin works OK, I sleep fine now, and the anxiety level is MUCH lower. The only possibility of replacing the Ritalin would be with nortrip., or replacing low-dose Effexor AND Ritalin with an MAOI.--Mitch
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 25, 2002, at 21:52:01
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Pfinstegg, posted by Chloe on October 25, 2002, at 18:26:03
ugs and mcgs are the same! I was trying to approximate a u with a long tail, which stands for "micro"! I am different from you in that I am really hypothyroid- just a little. I used to take 100mcg. of synthroid and it brought the TSH down to the range of 0.80. Because I had been struggling with depression for such a long time, and because I had seen hints on Psychobabble that T3 might help,I did a medline search and found that article I cited- at my request, my doc switched me to 50 mcg synthroid and 12.5 mcg cytomel. This keeps the TSH in the same range as it was before. I feel so much better now, but have made other changes as well (tianeptine), so I can't say for sure what role adding the T3 played. Since everyone needs both forms, and there is evidence that some people have difficulty converting T4 to T3, I plan to keep on with it indefinitely. For me, there are no side effects with a TSH in the 0.8 range, but lots of pluses-more energy, moister skin, easier weight control
For you, not being hypothyroid to begin with, and having to be concerned about getting too "up", it sounds very smart and safe to start with 5 mcg. It's really a low dose, and you may have to go a little higher to see if it helps to put a floor under the lows. Having developed this great e-mail feed-back system with your pdoc, you can let her know quickly if you've got any concerns and not have to wait and wonder until some future appointment. I think that was very smart of you to figure out a way that she could communicate quickly and comfortably!
Keep letting us know how things go.
Pfinstegg
Posted by fendel on October 25, 2002, at 22:13:57
In reply to Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal???, posted by Chloe on October 22, 2002, at 21:27:46
Hi, I've mostly been lurking, but thought I would share my T3 experience, for what it's worth.
Background: I have unipolar atypical depression, although I've occasionally wondered if I might be BPII. I'm hypothyroid and I've been on Synthroid (or its clones) for a few years now, along with 400mg/day of Wellbutrin SR.
Last year I was gradually sinking into a mild depression. Ran across the NEJM article and some info at the About.com thyroid site, and asked my GP for Cytomel. (Also ran it past my pdoc, who felt it was an excellent idea.) We added 25 mcg/day, split into two doses, to my existing 150mcg Levoxyl. I felt great... until the palpitations set in. We reduced the Levoxyl to 125mcg. No palpitations now, although my pulse is a little sped up.
At this dosage, my TSH is almost undetectable, but free T3 and T4 are within the normal range. My GP says this is fine if I'm feeling good.
I cut down to 12.5mcg for a week because of minor hyperthyroid symptoms (mainly, feeling too hot most of the time). Sure enough, within a day I felt fatigued again. Within a week the depression was looming again. Bumped it back up to 25mcg and felt better again.
On the 25mcg dose, I feel fairly energetic and cheerful. I do notice a little excess energy (found myself fidgeting today at work) but otherwise I feel great. This stuff makes a huge difference for me. I am amazed that this tiny bit of thyroid hormone twice a day was enough to turn things around so dramatically.
I should add that before I began the Cytomel, my TSH was well within the normal range (1.7, if I recall). I didn't let that stop me. :)
best wishes,
fendel
Posted by ST on October 27, 2002, at 22:12:39
In reply to Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal???, posted by Chloe on October 22, 2002, at 21:27:46
Chloe,
My doctor thought perhaps my thyroid was slow and then my labs came back normal. He considered a thyroid med as well, though, to help with depression. However Synthroid can make your thyroid act sluggish because the med is doing the thyroid's work. After awhile (if you are on a moderate to high dose of Synthroid), I have been warned that your thyroid may just totally poop out and get super slow. The best advice I got was to take a thyroid med that actually stimulates your own thyroid. I can't remember the name my doc was recommending but it's natural thyroid tissue, not a replacement for your thyroid.
I don't know if this helps....
(My doc ended up not going with any thyroid function enhancer because I'm manic-depressive)
Sarah
Posted by Chloe on October 28, 2002, at 10:38:25
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal???, posted by ST on October 27, 2002, at 22:12:39
> Chloe,
> My doctor thought perhaps my thyroid was slow and then my labs came back normal. He considered a thyroid med as well, though, to help with depression. However Synthroid can make your thyroid act sluggish because the med is doing the thyroid's work. After awhile (if you are on a moderate to high dose of Synthroid), I have been warned that your thyroid may just totally poop out and get super slow. The best advice I got was to take a thyroid med that actually stimulates your own thyroid. I can't remember the name my doc was recommending but it's natural thyroid tissue, not a replacement for your thyroid.
> I don't know if this helps....
> (My doc ended up not going with any thyroid function enhancer because I'm manic-depressive)
> SarahHi Sarah,
I was SO scared and so tentative about taking a thyroid hormone. Thyroid is the main regulator of our basal metabolic rate. I am BP (2) as well...so I am a bit afraid of getting really irritable or hypomanic. But so far, 3 days, I have developed a wonderful sense of well being and lightness. This is unusual for me to last more than a few hours. I have a terrible time with rapid cycling. And I have for years refused treatments that might help my disorder for fear of getting worse or messing up my body. So I gave in and decided to try T3 since both my pdoc and edoc think it might be very helpful.Also, I am not taking Synthroid, T4. I am taking Cytomel, T3. And I am taking the teeniest dose possible, 5 mcgs (or ugs! thanks Pfinstegg). Yikes, I would be devistated if taking a synthetic thyroid hormone destroyed my natural thyroid. But if synthetic hormone gets my mood stabilized, I would be content to take Cytomel for the rest of my life. Life without it has been pretty rough...
Thanks for you imput, and if you remember the name of the natural thyroid hormone or the med that stimulates the thyroid, I would be most interested.
Take care
Chloe
Posted by Chloe on October 28, 2002, at 10:52:51
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Chloe, posted by Ritch on October 25, 2002, at 20:35:53
>> Chloe, that is interesting (once a day)? Oh well, so much for how memory serves me. My Mom is clinically hypothyroid. She has had two thyroid surgeries-I've had one-both of us have only half a thyroid now. I knew that my Mom's last thyroid tumor was cancerous and I *thought* she told me that it was all removed the last time. But, I told her I can't understand how she can get by without thyroid hormone replacement with NO thyroid. So, I told her that I think they just removed a tumor the first surgery, and then the 2nd surgery they took 1/2 the thyroid. She can't remember for sure! Anyhow, she always complains about being cold all the time, being constipated, her skin is dry, thin, and flaky. I have told her several times over the last year: HELLO, get your TSH checked and take supplements! She never gets around to it. She will take some Dilantin if she feels any kind of feeling that she used to experience before she had her seizures at night, but she won't go get her thyroid hormones checked. You see, when she had her last surgery and her TSH was too high, they put her on T4, but the dose was way too high, and she did get nervous on it and didn't like it so she just quit it. The endo she was seeing wasn't very flexible to say the least.
Hi Mitch,
I have only been on Cytomel for three days, but so far, I really feel an improvement. I think I am going to be able to make it to my next maintanence ECT without a major suicidal crash. AND with your history and with only half a thyroid, I would imagine some form of T3 or T4 might really smooth things out for you. (WOW, and even more so for your poor mom. How can she survive the winters with her body turned down so low???) It may be too early for me to be reporting. But I have felt "up" but not manic for at least 24 hours. And I was able to sleep through the night. Yipee!
Your guinea pig,
Chloe
Posted by Ritch on October 28, 2002, at 13:45:48
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Ritch, posted by Chloe on October 28, 2002, at 10:52:51
> Hi Mitch,
> I have only been on Cytomel for three days, but so far, I really feel an improvement. I think I am going to be able to make it to my next maintanence ECT without a major suicidal crash. AND with your history and with only half a thyroid, I would imagine some form of T3 or T4 might really smooth things out for you. (WOW, and even more so for your poor mom. How can she survive the winters with her body turned down so low???) It may be too early for me to be reporting. But I have felt "up" but not manic for at least 24 hours. And I was able to sleep through the night. Yipee!
> Your guinea pig,
> Chloe
>
Chloe, I almost wish they would have removed my entire thyroid when I was in surgery. That way I would HAVE to take supplementation, and we could just adjust it to where I felt right (maybe a TSH between .5 to 1.0). It seems that the Ritalin I am taking is having an anticycling effect like Adderall did (but with no nervousness). Another weird thing-I find that if I take a small dose of Ritalin just a couple of hours before bedtime I sleep more soundly! I think it is doing something akin to what thyroid hormone would do. Keep us posted on your Cytomel experiment....
Posted by ST on October 28, 2002, at 18:14:09
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » ST, posted by Chloe on October 28, 2002, at 10:38:25
Chloe,
Sounds hopeful! And that amount seems to be just enough to even out your mood and probably not enough to harm your thyroid function.
Yes, I am also a BP (2). How manic have you been in the past? My doc was afraid if he put me on a thyroid med for my moods that I may become manic. However, I'm a BP with mostly depressive tendencies and have technically only had one severe hypo-manic period. (I've been slightly hypo manic before, but I'm mostly depressed)
What are the other meds you are on?
Good luck!
Sarah
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 28, 2002, at 21:02:12
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » ST, posted by Chloe on October 28, 2002, at 10:38:25
Chloe- what wonderful news! I'm so glad the Cytomel helped. I found just the same thing that you did, although I had to take a bit more.
Taking a low dose of Cytomel will not stop your thyroid from producing hormones- it will just make it produce a little less TSH, which will be your marker as to how your thyroid is doing.
Armour produces a combined T3-4 medication which is made from beef cattle. That may be the one you are thinking of; however some people are wary of it because of the very, very remote possibility of mad cow disease; also, I don't think you can titrate exactly how much T3-4 you are getting with the Armour preparation. It sounds like you've got just the right medication, which can always be adjusted a bit as you find out how you react to it. When you think of all the complex ADs we have all taken, doesn't Cytomel seem incredibly straightforward and easy? Something that really helps and doesn't come with horrible side effects!Pfinstegg
Posted by Chloe on October 29, 2002, at 9:01:05
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal???, posted by ST on October 28, 2002, at 18:14:09
Sarah and Pfenstegg,
I am finding Cytomel makes me feel terrific. I have a great sense of well being and I laugh and feel SO good. But last night I found that I felt very hot. I was at my chorus practice and I was sweating and overheating. I also didn't sleep terribly soundly last night. My heart was pounding a bit.
Sarah, I mostly have depressive tendencies too. Though I often find myself very irritable and frustrated. I get such a short fuse I can hardly cope with life's little everyday events. Then I can cycle and get so "high" and chatty and have really bad impulse control. That is hypomania, but it's always followed by a horrible crash into distorted thinking and suicidal depression. It's really scary and dangerous. Because when I fall from a such a high, I am so impulsive, sad, crazy and angry. I take:
1.5 mgs Celexa
60 mgs Doxepin
10 mgs Diazapam
450 mgs Lithium
5 mcgs Cytomel.However, I am thinking of stopping the Celexa. I think I might have too much AD on board now that I am taking Cytomel. What do you think Pfenstegg? The over heated feeling and the heart palps feel like too much SSRI. I am only taking a few drops any way. I SO do not want to stop the Cytomel. It really makes me feel so good, *almost* hypomanic but without the lack of impulse control. I feel talkative, and I may talk alot, but I can stop it! It's not that pressured feeling where I can't stop or I make bad decision I regret later. So far, I have really enjoyed talking and feeling up. And I am thrilled I have not crashed. These types of good moods typically never last. But I have felt well and energized for 3 days now. I feel so lucky! I really don't want to stop the Cytomel. I should email my pdoc about this...But I am thinking I am not hypomanic, I am actually kinda *normal*. I do think I can probably dump some of my AD's.
Yes, thyroid definitely beats any AD I have ever taken. I just hope it doesn't wind me up too much. Do you think I will get more revved as time goes on? Or might I settle down? I also have to watch that I don't loose anymore weight. It is melting off me. And I don't really have any extra to loose. So a big lunch for me today...
Thanks for writing
Chloe :)
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 29, 2002, at 9:41:39
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal???, posted by Chloe on October 29, 2002, at 9:01:05
Chloe- not being bipolar myself, I don't know enough about your medications to comment on that aspect, although lots of other people here do know a huge amount about it and can probably give helpful suggestions. As to the Cytomel, I think your TSH is going to tell you whether the amount you are taking is right for you.(if it goes below 0.5, that would be too low) But you do have to think about clinical effects, too: weight loss and a racing pulse are two signs of possibly having too much of either TSH, T4 or T3 in your system. I would hate to see you discontinue the Cytomel because it seems to be helping with the "crashes", but it might be that 2.5 mcg. would be enough for you
I know that you still have struggles and challenges, but it's just wonderful how much better you sound compared to a few months ago!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Ritch on October 29, 2002, at 9:47:35
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal???, posted by Chloe on October 29, 2002, at 9:01:05
>.....last night I found that I felt very hot. I was at my chorus practice and I was sweating and overheating. I also didn't sleep terribly soundly last night. My heart was pounding a bit....
Chloe, hope you don't mind me resonding to that one. Feeling flushed and hot are mild hyperthyroid symptoms. However, SSRI's cause it too. Interestingly, Celexa and Effexor were the two that I noticed the most flushing on. Celexa I noticed the most sweating. Is it ocurring primarily about 2-6 hrs post-dosing? My underarms would just drip like crazy in a 72 degree office, and coworkers feel the heat coming off of me. I found that it was also worse right after a meal. Maybe you could ask your pdoc if you could try your pinch of Celexa every other day for awhile. When I was on Celexa a few months ago that's how I took it.----Mitch
Posted by Chloe on October 29, 2002, at 17:31:42
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Chloe, posted by Ritch on October 29, 2002, at 9:47:35
I didn't take any Celexa today and I feel much *less* revved up and HOT. I probably should have asked the pdoc first...But I do have ECT tomorrow, so I thought it would be OK to drop it out of the line up. If I crashed, at least I would have something to get me back on track.
I sure wouldn't mind dropping the Celexa out for good. It's a real pain to take one and a half CC's per day. I think it's under 20 drops. But clearly it has some impact, because I am not sweating much today at all. Interesting Mitch that you sweat the most on Celexa. I found it to be one of the better one's for me, prozac and zololt being the worst. But Celexa+Cytomel seems to really stoke my furnace.
Thanks so much for writing, Mitch and Pfenstegg, etc. Trying new meds can be so scary. But I must say, Cytomel really has been helpful. This is the first week between treatments without a psychotic type crash. Yipee! Maybe I can start spacing treatments out more and more...
Yours,
Chloe :)
Posted by Ritch on October 29, 2002, at 22:10:23
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal???, posted by Chloe on October 29, 2002, at 17:31:42
> I didn't take any Celexa today and I feel much *less* revved up and HOT. I probably should have asked the pdoc first...But I do have ECT tomorrow, so I thought it would be OK to drop it out of the line up. If I crashed, at least I would have something to get me back on track.
>
> I sure wouldn't mind dropping the Celexa out for good. It's a real pain to take one and a half CC's per day. I think it's under 20 drops. But clearly it has some impact, because I am not sweating much today at all. Interesting Mitch that you sweat the most on Celexa. I found it to be one of the better one's for me, prozac and zololt being the worst. But Celexa+Cytomel seems to really stoke my furnace.Chloe, you might want to "work in" what you are doing in your conversation to your pdoc so she will be on the same page. I remember when I was on a dexedrine trial back in the Spring and easily went several days between a tiny Celexa dose of about what you normally take (1.25mg approx.). If you feel like you "need" to take a tiny dose of Celexa, don't feel that you have thrown it out for good-esp. if you are getting a mild withdrawal from it. Perhaps if you told your pdoc you want the Celexa *available*, but would like to see if you could do without it?? It is true-I sweated on that med more than anything else ever! Effexor causes almost as much sweating, but not clearly DRIPPING underarms! ;)--Mitch
Posted by Chloe on October 30, 2002, at 8:41:28
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Chloe, posted by Ritch on October 29, 2002, at 22:10:23
> > I didn't take any Celexa today and I feel much *less* revved up and HOT. I probably should have asked the pdoc first...But I do have ECT tomorrow, so I thought it would be OK to drop it out of the line up. If I crashed, at least I would have something to get me back on track.
> >
> > I sure wouldn't mind dropping the Celexa out for good. It's a real pain to take one and a half CC's per day. I think it's under 20 drops. But clearly it has some impact, because I am not sweating much today at all. Interesting Mitch that you sweat the most on Celexa. I found it to be one of the better one's for me, prozac and zololt being the worst. But Celexa+Cytomel seems to really stoke my furnace.
>
> Chloe, you might want to "work in" what you are doing in your conversation to your pdoc so she will be on the same page. I remember when I was on a dexedrine trial back in the Spring and easily went several days between a tiny Celexa dose of about what you normally take (1.25mg approx.). If you feel like you "need" to take a tiny dose of Celexa, don't feel that you have thrown it out for good-esp. if you are getting a mild withdrawal from it. Perhaps if you told your pdoc you want the Celexa *available*, but would like to see if you could do without it?? It is true-I sweated on that med more than anything else ever! Effexor causes almost as much sweating, but not clearly DRIPPING underarms! ;)--MitchHi Mitch
Interesting you should mention this. Because I did feel what I thought might be a slight withdrawl last night about 7 pm. So I took .5 mgs of Celexa. And about 2 hours later(like you experienced) I was starting to feel quite warm. I was afraid I might not be able to sleep, but I found myself more tired than ever. I went to bed early and slept soundly until about 7 am. I really hate that we changed the clocks back, because I don't know if I am waking up earlier due to these meds, or b/c we put the clocks back an hours. Really annoys me, every year!
Anyway today I have ECT and I hope I will be able to talk to the edoc about this Cytomel+Celexa thing. They have been so busy and overwrought at the clinic that my appointment at 10 am last week did not start until 2 pm. So needless to say I had no time to talk to the edoc...It was really hard to wait that long. They better be more organized today.
AND I don't know what I should do about the Cytomel this morning. I am thinking 5 mgs is too much. I feel a bit caffeinated this am, and I haven't had anything to eat or drink since last night. I could try 2.5 mgs, but the pill kinda turned to dust when I split it. But maybe I will wait till after the treatment. But I read that you are supposed to take T3 at the *same time* every day. And on an empty stomach, do you know if this is true? If I wait till after the treatment it will be sometime in the afternoon, several hours after my regular time. But if I am a little wired anyway, it's probably best to wait anyway. I am a bit shaky and revved up, but now high at all.
Hopefully I will feel better this after noon.
Later
Chloe
Posted by Ritch on October 30, 2002, at 10:07:41
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Ritch, posted by Chloe on October 30, 2002, at 8:41:28
> AND I don't know what I should do about the Cytomel this morning. I am thinking 5 mgs is too much. I feel a bit caffeinated this am, and I haven't had anything to eat or drink since last night. I could try 2.5 mgs, but the pill kinda turned to dust when I split it. But maybe I will wait till after the treatment. But I read that you are supposed to take T3 at the *same time* every day. And on an empty stomach, do you know if this is true? If I wait till after the treatment it will be sometime in the afternoon, several hours after my regular time. But if I am a little wired anyway, it's probably best to wait anyway. I am a bit shaky and revved up, but now high at all.
> Hopefully I will feel better this after noon.
> Later
> ChloeAs far as T4 goes anyhow, you are supposed to take it on an empty stomach the same time each morning. I wonder if the anti-cycling effect of thyroid hormone has to do precisely with being a little "revved-up", but not hypomanic? Maybe it is a consistent *sameness* experience through the day that keeps you from being overly reactive to your environment..?
Posted by Chloe on October 31, 2002, at 18:02:42
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Chloe, posted by Ritch on October 30, 2002, at 10:07:41
> > AND I don't know what I should do about the Cytomel this morning. I am thinking 5 mgs is too much. I feel a bit caffeinated this am, and I haven't had anything to eat or drink since last night. I could try 2.5 mgs, but the pill kinda turned to dust when I split it. But maybe I will wait till after the treatment. But I read that you are supposed to take T3 at the *same time* every day. And on an empty stomach, do you know if this is true? If I wait till after the treatment it will be sometime in the afternoon, several hours after my regular time. But if I am a little wired anyway, it's probably best to wait anyway. I am a bit shaky and revved up, but now high at all.
> > Hopefully I will feel better this after noon.
> > Later
> > Chloe
>
> As far as T4 goes anyhow, you are supposed to take it on an empty stomach the same time each morning. I wonder if the anti-cycling effect of thyroid hormone has to do precisely with being a little "revved-up", but not hypomanic? Maybe it is a consistent *sameness* experience through the day that keeps you from being overly reactive to your environment..?Hi,
Well, I am no longer hot. For some reason after ECT, I woke up feeling quite calm and even a bit on the cold side. I had trouble warming up yesterday. And today, though my mood is quite even, I feel so tired. I could just lie down and sleep. So much for the revved up feeling! Perhaps I adjusted to the 5 mcgs of Cytomel? Or maybe something else was revving me before that I am not aware of? Though I can't think of what, because I keep most everything in my life about the same, so I have no surprises! For example, I don't like to have more than 2 cups of coffee per day. Because then I don't know if I am anxious or if it's the coffee...
Well, I told the p and edocs yesterday that I was revved up. They still though I should stay on the med. I am glad they said that. Because I am fine now. They plan to check my TSH level in a week or so...
Anyway, it's SO nice to feel even and good for a change. I feel so lucky :)
My best to everyone
Chloe
Posted by Ritch on October 31, 2002, at 22:23:05
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal???, posted by Chloe on October 31, 2002, at 18:02:42
> > > AND I don't know what I should do about the Cytomel this morning. I am thinking 5 mgs is too much. I feel a bit caffeinated this am, and I haven't had anything to eat or drink since last night. I could try 2.5 mgs, but the pill kinda turned to dust when I split it. But maybe I will wait till after the treatment. But I read that you are supposed to take T3 at the *same time* every day. And on an empty stomach, do you know if this is true? If I wait till after the treatment it will be sometime in the afternoon, several hours after my regular time. But if I am a little wired anyway, it's probably best to wait anyway. I am a bit shaky and revved up, but now high at all.
> > > Hopefully I will feel better this after noon.
> > > Later
> > > Chloe
> >
> > As far as T4 goes anyhow, you are supposed to take it on an empty stomach the same time each morning. I wonder if the anti-cycling effect of thyroid hormone has to do precisely with being a little "revved-up", but not hypomanic? Maybe it is a consistent *sameness* experience through the day that keeps you from being overly reactive to your environment..?
>
> Hi,
> Well, I am no longer hot. For some reason after ECT, I woke up feeling quite calm and even a bit on the cold side. I had trouble warming up yesterday. And today, though my mood is quite even, I feel so tired. I could just lie down and sleep. So much for the revved up feeling! Perhaps I adjusted to the 5 mcgs of Cytomel? Or maybe something else was revving me before that I am not aware of? Though I can't think of what, because I keep most everything in my life about the same, so I have no surprises! For example, I don't like to have more than 2 cups of coffee per day. Because then I don't know if I am anxious or if it's the coffee...
> Well, I told the p and edocs yesterday that I was revved up. They still though I should stay on the med. I am glad they said that. Because I am fine now. They plan to check my TSH level in a week or so...
> Anyway, it's SO nice to feel even and good for a change. I feel so lucky :)
> My best to everyone
> Chloe
>Chloe, did you wait until after the treatment to take your Cytomel or did you take a split dose, etc.? If you skipped a dose-that could be why you are feeling a little "tired" and "cold". How is your Celexa dosing going? You might want to chart your Cytomel vis a vis Celexa/other meds and your response at different times of the day. This sounds very encouraging. I see my pdoc in a couple of weeks. It looks like Effexor+Ritalin+Omega3+supplements daytime and Depakote+Klonopin at night for now. If this thyroid experiment of yours proves to be *really* beneficial I might press the idea of a little Cytomel. Let us know what your free T3/T4 and your TSH results are, OK? good luck--Mitch
Posted by Chloe on November 2, 2002, at 9:01:06
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Chloe, posted by Ritch on October 31, 2002, at 22:23:05
> Chloe, did you wait until after the treatment to take your Cytomel or did you take a split dose, etc.? If you skipped a dose-that could be why you are feeling a little "tired" and "cold". How is your Celexa dosing going? You might want to chart your Cytomel vis a vis Celexa/other meds and your response at different times of the day. This sounds very encouraging. I see my pdoc in a couple of weeks. It looks like Effexor+Ritalin+Omega3+supplements daytime and Depakote+Klonopin at night for now. If this thyroid experiment of yours proves to be *really* beneficial I might press the idea of a little Cytomel. Let us know what your free T3/T4 and your TSH results are, OK? good luck--Mitch
Hi Mitch,
I took the Cytomel after the treatment, so it was not on a empty stomach. But I never missed a dose and I haven't cut it in half again. I have cut my Celexa dose in half though. When I take the full 1.5 mgs, I get really chatty. I just want to talk and talk. So I am taking a little less and don't feel the need to talk up a storm and my mood is still good.
I feel almost no side effects from the Cytomel. I don't even notice that I am taking it anymore. But I do think it's keeping a little more of a floor on my mood. I am not having severe crashes into irrational, distorted suicidal thinking. What a relief. I hope to end this ECT soon.
I would definitely mention T3 to your pdoc. It has almost no side effects that I am aware of, and it actually seems to do something. That is so rare in the psychopharm world!
When I find out my TSH and other values I will let you know. I forgot to ask my pdoc for my original TSH in my email. Now I have to wait til I get my new value which will be drawn next week.
Did you find out if T3 (not T4) has to be taken on an empty stomach? The pharmacist mentioned nothing about it, and my pdoc didn't know...
Take care,
Chloe
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 2, 2002, at 10:55:57
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Ritch, posted by Chloe on November 2, 2002, at 9:01:06
Hi Chloe! It's such great news that you are really better, and can look towards the end of regular ECT. My endocrinologist instructed me to take the Cytomel on an empty stomach, a half hour before breakfast.
Pfinstegg
Posted by Ritch on November 2, 2002, at 13:24:20
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Ritch, posted by Chloe on November 2, 2002, at 9:01:06
> Hi Mitch,
> I took the Cytomel after the treatment, so it was not on a empty stomach. But I never missed a dose and I haven't cut it in half again. I have cut my Celexa dose in half though. When I take the full 1.5 mgs, I get really chatty. I just want to talk and talk. So I am taking a little less and don't feel the need to talk up a storm and my mood is still good.
> I feel almost no side effects from the Cytomel. I don't even notice that I am taking it anymore. But I do think it's keeping a little more of a floor on my mood. I am not having severe crashes into irrational, distorted suicidal thinking. What a relief. I hope to end this ECT soon.
> I would definitely mention T3 to your pdoc. It has almost no side effects that I am aware of, and it actually seems to do something. That is so rare in the psychopharm world!
> When I find out my TSH and other values I will let you know. I forgot to ask my pdoc for my original TSH in my email. Now I have to wait til I get my new value which will be drawn next week.
> Did you find out if T3 (not T4) has to be taken on an empty stomach? The pharmacist mentioned nothing about it, and my pdoc didn't know...
> Take care,
> ChloeChloe, I looked some more and the most info I could find was that 10-20mcg is a common "starting" dose. It is usually taken 2-3 times daily. Couldn't find anything about empty stomach or not. Did they give you any patient information with your script when you got your Cytomel filled? If this works out well, maybe you could add a 2nd 5mcg. tablet after you get all your thyroid tests back. I noticed the "chattiness" on Celexa, too. Other SSRI's do that as well. If I take more than just a little bit I will get hypomanic.... Mitch
>
Posted by Chloe on November 2, 2002, at 18:04:55
In reply to Re: Should I add SYNTHROID if T3/4 are normal??? » Chloe, posted by Pfinstegg on November 2, 2002, at 10:55:57
> Hi Chloe! It's such great news that you are really better, and can look towards the end of regular ECT. My endocrinologist instructed me to take the Cytomel on an empty stomach, a half hour before breakfast.
>
> PfinsteggThanks Pfinstegg!
I am feeling better. And definitely ready to wind down on the ECT. I really think the T3 helps. Though it sure doesn't rev me up any more. I am ready to nod off, and it's only 7 pm!
I have been taking the Cytomel about an hour before breakfast. Thanks for sharing what your endo said. That helps.
Hope you are doing well
Chloe
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