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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Kamikazi_Ladybug on October 23, 2002, at 12:49:31
every now and then I see posts about it.
Thanks.
Posted by IsoM on October 23, 2002, at 13:02:14
In reply to What is ECT? , posted by Kamikazi_Ladybug on October 23, 2002, at 12:49:31
Posted by Kamikazi_Ladybug on October 23, 2002, at 13:04:43
In reply to ECT = electro-convulsive therapy (shock therapy) (nm) » Kamikazi_Ladybug, posted by IsoM on October 23, 2002, at 13:02:14
See, I learned something new today :)
Posted by IsoM on October 23, 2002, at 14:05:43
In reply to Thank you! I didn't think they did that anymore. » IsoM, posted by Kamikazi_Ladybug on October 23, 2002, at 13:04:43
The way it's done nowadays, it's still one of the fastest, most effective treatments for severe (suicidal) depression. It's also used for some types of treament-resistant depression that doesn't respond to ADs.
Posted by Geezer on October 23, 2002, at 17:33:16
In reply to Re: modern day ECT » Kamikazi_Ladybug, posted by IsoM on October 23, 2002, at 14:05:43
> The way it's done nowadays, it's still one of the fastest, most effective treatments for severe (suicidal) depression. It's also used for some types of treament-resistant depression that doesn't respond to ADs.
Right you are Isom! I had my fourth treatment this AM (I have TRD), things are beginning to change for the better. I am a little sleepy at the moment but hope to share experience soon...if anyone has interest.
Geezer
Posted by IsoM on October 23, 2002, at 18:32:03
In reply to Re: modern day ECT » IsoM, posted by Geezer on October 23, 2002, at 17:33:16
Geezer, I'm sure many people are more than willing for you to share your experiences with ECT. Chole has been having on-going treatment & has posted her experiences. I think the more that let others know of it, the less people will be frightened of it. It's an option but not one that should be ignored if needed.
I'm glad you're feeling better. After many years of nothing working for long, it's certainly sweet to see the light at last. Yes, by all means, keep us posted!
Posted by Babak on October 23, 2002, at 19:15:03
In reply to Re: modern day ECT » IsoM, posted by Geezer on October 23, 2002, at 17:33:16
> Right you are Isom! I had my fourth treatment this AM (I have TRD), things are beginning to change for the better. I am a little sleepy at the moment but hope to share experience soon...if anyone has interest.
>
>
GeezerI am supposed to start on ECT in about a month time and I would love to hear from people who have had this treatment.
I have been suffering from depression for most of my life. For the past 13 years I have been on medication. It started as a severe case 13 years ago to the month. Gradually most of the symptoms are now under control except anhedonia.
Apart from five glorious weeks when I first started Mirtazapine, the best I have managed is a steady flat functional state.
I am not looking forward to ECT but I have exhausted all other avenues. My worst fear is that if that doesn’t help then I’ll really have nowhere to go.
I can see how it can help with anxiety and catatonic depression but can it really help with anhedonia?
Posted by Marginal on October 23, 2002, at 19:54:24
In reply to re; ECT experiences... » Geezer, posted by IsoM on October 23, 2002, at 18:32:03
> Geezer, I'm sure many people are more than willing for you to share your experiences with ECT. Chole has been having on-going treatment & has posted her experiences. I think the more that let others know of it, the less people will be frightened of it. It's an option but not one that should be ignored if needed.
>
> I'm glad you're feeling better. After many years of nothing working for long, it's certainly sweet to see the light at last. Yes, by all means, keep us posted!
Absolutely, Geezer: we need the info! I'm similarly on the verge of opting for ECT. I'm having trouble finding Doctors willing to move fast, since I'm not suicidal. It's an odd arrangement, where if I'm lucid enough to request ECT --- or at least a consult --- than I'm not 'too far gone yet', and therefore get another barrage of suggestions for medicines.There's a post out there somewhere where I'm debating ECT or Nardil --- I had gotten THAT bad, after another unsuccessful trial with Effexor. Since then, about 2 weeks ago, Remeron has vegged me out enough to not have the sense of urgency of before. But I'm very curious. Memory effects? Were improvements immediate? Did you stay in hospital or have them done as an outpatient...
Anything helps, and good luck --
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 23, 2002, at 20:20:20
In reply to Re: modern day ECT » IsoM, posted by Geezer on October 23, 2002, at 17:33:16
That's such great news Geezer! I remember your posts from before ECT, and could really empathize with how hard it was to make the decision to do it. It's wonderful to learn that it seems to be working out well. So few people have written about their experiences with it, other than Chloe, that it will really help and inform us all.
Looking forward to future posts,
Pfinstegg
Posted by Geezer on October 24, 2002, at 9:06:06
In reply to Re: modern day ECT » Geezer, posted by Pfinstegg on October 23, 2002, at 20:20:20
Thank you all very much for your kind wishes and support.
IsoM.....I always follow your posts, even in my confused state over the past year & 1/2 I have been able to recognize your posts as the truth and have taken direction from them on more than one occasion. You are correct about seeing the "light at last", I am not all the way there but it sure feels good to have a start. Do we know how Chole is doing?
Babak.....I don't think there is anything I can say to totally eliminate your fears, about ECT, but I can promise they are totally painless. At least on the subjective level I can feel an improvement in anhedonia. I have also noticed a release of anger that I had stored up (I am completely nonviolent). I had an experience like yours when I first took Prozac - nothing worked after that. I believe I will end up on Parnate after ECT. - will have to keep you informed. I honestly doen't think you have anything to loose by trying ECT.
Marginal......How well I know the drill!!! ECT should be used much more often and much earlier. My mother had many treatments in the 50s, she had 15 years total remission (no drugs, no maintainence ECT), her next set of treatments gave her relief for 10 years - same circumstances, she is now 85 and in good health, pretty hard to find those results in the lit. I do have some short term memory loss but seem to remember the important things - I had a lot of memory loss with the depression - things I have forgotten recently I am glad to be rid of. Yes, I noticed immediate improvement and it seems to grow better with each treatment. Took my first 3 treatments in hospital, now alternate days as out-patient (3 first week), 2 the following week, 1 per week, then one per month/maintainence.
Pfinstegg......Thanks for the kind words. Don't feel I am qualified to become the "poster boy" for ECT yet but it is the only thing that has made a difference in the past 14 mos. Given the risk/benefit ratio, I believe it is under utilized.
Thanks pbabblers
Geezer
Posted by Chloe on October 25, 2002, at 20:46:42
In reply to Re: re; ECT experiences..., posted by Marginal on October 23, 2002, at 19:54:24
> Absolutely, Geezer: we need the info! I'm similarly on the verge of opting for ECT. I'm having trouble finding Doctors willing to move fast, since I'm not suicidal. It's an odd arrangement, where if I'm lucid enough to request ECT --- or at least a consult --- than I'm not 'too far gone yet', and therefore get another barrage of suggestions for medicines.
That is a shame that a pdoc won't refer you to a qualified edoc...I had a meeting with an edoc, he listened to my unsuccessful med history and my pain, and thought I should start ECT right away. I am so glad I did.
> There's a post out there somewhere where I'm debating ECT or Nardil --- I had gotten THAT bad, after another unsuccessful trial with Effexor. Since then, about 2 weeks ago, Remeron has vegged me out enough to not have the sense of urgency of before. But I'm very curious. Memory effects? Were improvements immediate? Did you stay in hospital or have them done as an outpatient...I have been outpatient AND living by myself the whole time. It's recommended that you have someone with you b/c of confusion. But it has not been a problem for me. Memory loss isn't a major problem either. I do write more notes to myself, so I won't forget to do something or where I put something. And things come back quickly if I am prompted...The improvements came in about 3 or 4 sessions. And YES, it is so helpful for anhedonia. I have never really had relief from that from an AD medication. How awesome to actually feel well and happy and alive! I am so glad I chose to do ECT. My parents are still horrified. I don't think they will ever get used to the idea. But they are thrilled I am finally feeling better. I got sick about age 11, and I am now 36...I wish I had stumbled on this earlier. I think I would have save myself alot of pain and permanent TD.
Hope this helps,
Chloe
>
> Anything helps, and good luck --
>
>
Posted by Geezer on October 26, 2002, at 15:55:13
In reply to Re: re; ECT experiences..., posted by Chloe on October 25, 2002, at 20:46:42
Chloe,
I would think my results with ECT are similar to yours. I had my 6th treatment on Friday 25 and feel the relief beginning. Does your pdoc have any plans for ADs in conjunction with ECT or following your completion of treatments? Parnate has been mentioned to me and that's fine if needed.
I have been getting strong suggestions from the pdoc to start Cognitive Therapy (talk therapy) this is the part I strongly disagree with. It is just my belief this is a genetic, biochemical, and physiologic disorder we have to live with.....I don't believe there is a psycho-social component. It would be most helpful if the psychologists would confine themselves to treating neurotics and stay away from those of us with major mood disorders.
Glad you are making progress.
Best regards,
Geezer
Posted by Babak on October 26, 2002, at 18:18:26
In reply to Re: re; ECT experiences... » Chloe, posted by Geezer on October 26, 2002, at 15:55:13
> Chloe,
>
> I would think my results with ECT are similar to yours. I had my 6th treatment on Friday 25 and feel the relief beginning. Does your pdoc have any plans for ADs in conjunction with ECT or following your completion of treatments? Parnate has been mentioned to me and that's fine if needed.
>
> I have been getting strong suggestions from the pdoc to start Cognitive Therapy (talk therapy) this is the part I strongly disagree with. It is just my belief this is a genetic, biochemical, and physiologic disorder we have to live with.....I don't believe there is a psycho-social component. It would be most helpful if the psychologists would confine themselves to treating neurotics and stay away from those of us with major mood disorders.
>
> Glad you are making progress.
>
> Best regards,
>
> GeezerGeezer
I am right behind you on that one. I wished the medical establishment would accept that unless you are severely affected by a real traumatic incident in your life the source of depression is more likely to be genetic and physical. In the last thirteen years I have had two years of intensive psychoanalysis (three sessions a week) and then three years of Psychotherapy (twice a week), followed by five and half years of group therapy. The only time my therapist thought that I made an improvement was when, without him knowing, I changed my medication from Prozac to Effexor, which helped me with my anger. ha ha!
I am not saying that all of that therapy was not useful but they were as useful as they would have been for anyone else, even without depression. They helped me stop projecting my anxiety and depressive feelings on to the people around me. That helped me carry the burden of my depression without isolating myself from others.
The only things which bother me psychologically are: a) the hopelessness; if ECT doesn’t work for me and b) if it does work, the sheer anxiety of going back downhill might actually serve as a self fulfilling prophesy.
The last time (the only time) I got a remission when I first started on Mirtazapine I was worried (anxious)and thought that this is to good to be true and expected it to end any minute and it did after five weeks. Now I feel guilty that it might have been my own negative attitude that in some way caused the medication to stop working.
However thanks to you all, I think I am a lot less scared and will see if can speed up the procedure when I next talk to my pdoc.
Thank you all again
Babak
Posted by Chloe on October 26, 2002, at 20:03:54
In reply to Re: re; ECT experiences... » Chloe, posted by Geezer on October 26, 2002, at 15:55:13
> Chloe,
>
> I would think my results with ECT are similar to yours. I had my 6th treatment on Friday 25 and feel the relief beginning. Does your pdoc have any plans for ADs in conjunction with ECT or following your completion of treatments? Parnate has been mentioned to me and that's fine if needed.Hi Geezer,
I am so glad you are having a positive response to ECT. It has been so helpful for me. My pdoc gave me the option of Dialectal Behavioral Therapy or ECT. I was SO depressed, I went with ECT. And I am so glad I did. I was so scared it wasn't going to work, then I would nowhere else to turn (but there are always other options...). But it works so miraculously. Out of all my years of depression and hypomania mood swinging, I have never felt this good and *without* anhedonia. So, like you were saying, I am now more sure than ever that this is a physical problem, in essesence a disease that needs treatment, i.e. chemical changes to the brain and body before any talk therapy can be useful.
My pdoc and I have long ago give up having weekly or biweekly sessions. Because it just doesn't take the pain away. No amount of talking or hospitalization has ever taken the pain away like ECT has. For me this really has brought some hope and purpose back to my life. Now I just have to find a way to have it's effects last more than 4-7 days...Just yesterday my pdoc and edoc added T3 to my lithium, 1.5 mg of Celexa and 60 mgs of doxepin. Unfortunately, too much AD makes me hypomanic, racy, irritable, etc. ECT actually sent me into this amazing euphoria for several days after one treatment. The world was this amazing place for a while...Surreal actually. So again, I couldn't agree more that this problem with mood is of a chemical nature. I would like to see a diabetic go to their doctor and talk about insulin and blood sugar for 50 minutes.
Keep us posted on how you continue to make out with ECT. I hope you don't need the parnate. But if you do, I hope it's the right agent to keep you out of the pits.> I have been getting strong suggestions from the pdoc to start Cognitive Therapy (talk therapy) this is the part I strongly disagree with. It is just my belief this is a genetic, biochemical, and physiologic disorder we have to live with.....I don't believe there is a psycho-social component. It would be most helpful if the psychologists would confine themselves to treating neurotics and stay away from those of us with major mood disorders.
Here, here!
>
> Glad you are making progress.Thanks, ditto
Chloe
>
> Best regards,
>
> Geezer
Posted by Dave1 on October 28, 2002, at 9:36:30
In reply to Re: re; ECT experiences..., posted by Babak on October 26, 2002, at 18:18:26
Hi,
What are the differences between the talking therapies you mentioned. I've had a problem for a long time that caused my depression and no one ever tried to solve the problem. Since I'm TRD, I thought some type of talking might help. Maybe cognitive, because I have OCD, and sometimes talking about my worries makes me obssess on them more. Also should I use a psychologist instead of a psychiatrist. Most psychiatrists just want to give an prescription and then go to sleep for the rest of the session.
Thanks,
Dave
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