![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phil on October 11, 2002, at 7:08:56
That's a lot of treatments!!
Maintenance ECT: A Survey of Practice (1986).
Kramer BA.
Department of Psychiatry and the Behavioral Sciences, University of Southern California, School of Medicine, Los Angeles, California, USA.
A questionnaire on the use of maintenance or continuation ECT was mailed to 173 practitioners of ECT. Of 86 respondents, 51 reported they used maintenance therapy, and 35 did not. Users came from 24 states, with five states accounting for more than half. Of practitioners giving maintenance ECT, each treated a median of three patients annually between 1981 through 1984, with a range from zero to "thousands." Frequency of treatments is determined empirically, with most treatments given monthly. Memory impairment is the most commonly cited risk. Depression is the diagnosis in 90% of the patients, with schizoaffective, schizophrenic, and manic patients equally comprising the remainder of the patients. The longest series reported for any one patient is 2,400 treatments.
PMID: 11940927 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Posted by IsoM on October 11, 2002, at 10:02:41
In reply to PubMed: 2400 ECT treatments, posted by Phil on October 11, 2002, at 7:08:56
The survey was done in 1986 with data taken from 1981-84. Almost 20 years have passed since then & treatment using ECT has thankfully improved even in that short period. More medications are available too so doctors have lessened their reliance on ECT.
Posted by Jerrympls on October 11, 2002, at 23:09:27
In reply to Re: PubMed: 2400 ECT treatments » Phil, posted by IsoM on October 11, 2002, at 10:02:41
Simply, devistatlingly barbaric - either 20 years ago or yesterday - barbaric. Psychiatirsts would rather send high volts of blind electricity through a person's head than try something off-lable -like an opioid or dopamine antagonist. Because, God fobid using "addictive substance" to heal. Rather, it's "shock them until they forget they had depression..." - that quote is actually from one of my past psychiatrists.
Sorry for being on a soapbox. this is my opinion and experience. Now if I could only remember why I had ECT done? H,mmmmmm
Jerry
Posted by Phil on October 12, 2002, at 6:45:38
In reply to Re: PubMed: 2400 ECT treatments, posted by Jerrympls on October 11, 2002, at 23:09:27
I went to PubMed and keyed in ECT and memory. I've advocated ECT because I saw it work in a family member and know of a lot of success stories using ECT. I can't imagine how anyone could have that many treatments.
Anyway, instead of reinforcing beliefs in ECT, I read a lot more disagreement. The studies and the doctors can't seem to agree on anything.
In my experience, reading PubMed isn't a big motivator to swallow pills either.
I take it your ECT didn't work?
Posted by Chloe on October 12, 2002, at 14:32:35
In reply to Re: PubMed: 2400 ECT treatments » Jerrympls, posted by Phil on October 12, 2002, at 6:45:38
Hi
I don't know why I feel compelled to respond...But I am in the middle or towards the end of a round of ECT. It has been EXTREMELY benefincial to me. I am in maintanence therapy now. One treatment a week for a month, then one treatment every other week for a month. My pdoc and edoc don't want to abruptly stop ECT. That would be like abruptly stopping an antidepressant, I might rebound into depression.I can see how people might think ECT is barbaric...ECT is protrayed horribly in the movies and on TV. But in all honestly, ECT is very tolerable...The anesthesiologist, edoc and nurses are all highly trained, and I am completely paralized and asleep for the whole thing. It is not as awful as people are lead to imagine. And *in moderation* I think it's easier on my body than swallowing a handful of meds several times a day that isn't acheiving it's goal of improving my mood.
Just my 2 cents...
Chloe
Posted by Geezer on October 12, 2002, at 18:46:18
In reply to Re: PubMed: 2400 ECT treatments, posted by Chloe on October 12, 2002, at 14:32:35
Chole,
Glad to know about your continued success. I go to the hospital tomorrow evening for the testing prior to starting the ECT. The only part I am dreading is wasting a week in the psyc. ward (I have been in many times before) going through the pre-treatment stuff. Pdoc says I will get the first 2 ECTs as an inpatient, then outpatient for the rest. I have been reading Electroshock Restoring the Mind by Max Fink....not heavy science but it is reassuring. Keep posting if you can - it helps.
Good cheer
Posted by Jerrympls on October 13, 2002, at 17:37:59
In reply to Re: PubMed: 2400 ECT treatments » Jerrympls, posted by Phil on October 12, 2002, at 6:45:38
Good luck to anyone persuing ECT. i think it's barbaric because of what it did to my memory and mind -not because of how it was portrayed in the movies. Yeah, you're asleep through the whole thing - but afterwards - for me -wasn't good. I lost more memory than the doctor's said I would. I couldn't read music anymore -just little things like that. then, they placed the blame on the depression - not the ECT. Still today, when I attempt to share my own experiences ,people throw research studies and articles at me trying to downplay the horrible truths I lived through. ECT may help some -but it destroyed me.
Posted by Lyn on October 17, 2002, at 6:50:32
In reply to Re: PubMed: 2400 ECT treatments, posted by Jerrympls on October 13, 2002, at 17:37:59
> Good luck to anyone persuing ECT. i think it's barbaric because of what it did to my memory and mind -not because of how it was portrayed in the movies. Yeah, you're asleep through the whole thing - but afterwards - for me -wasn't good. I lost more memory than the doctor's said I would. I couldn't read music anymore -just little things like that. then, they placed the blame on the depression - not the ECT. Still today, when I attempt to share my own experiences ,people throw research studies and articles at me trying to downplay the horrible truths I lived through. ECT may help some -but it destroyed me.
>
I had a similar response and, in addition to memory problems, trouble with comprehension and speech for months afterwards. Barbaric is a good description.
Posted by Jerrympls on October 17, 2002, at 19:09:02
In reply to Re: PubMed: 2400 ECT treatments, posted by Lyn on October 17, 2002, at 6:50:32
> > Good luck to anyone persuing ECT. i think it's barbaric because of what it did to my memory and mind -not because of how it was portrayed in the movies. Yeah, you're asleep through the whole thing - but afterwards - for me -wasn't good. I lost more memory than the doctor's said I would. I couldn't read music anymore -just little things like that. then, they placed the blame on the depression - not the ECT. Still today, when I attempt to share my own experiences ,people throw research studies and articles at me trying to downplay the horrible truths I lived through. ECT may help some -but it destroyed me.
> >
>
>
> I had a similar response and, in addition to memory problems, trouble with comprehension and speech for months afterwards. Barbaric is a good description.
>I had 6 treatments about 7-8 years ago and to this day I still have problems with comprehension and conceptualization. It's a horrifying thing to be aware that these things have been erased. I never had panic attacks until after the ECT treatments too. I wish they knew what they were doing to some people.
Posted by Lyn on October 18, 2002, at 0:50:22
In reply to Re: PubMed: 2400 ECT treatments » Lyn, posted by Jerrympls on October 17, 2002, at 19:09:02
> I had 6 treatments about 7-8 years ago and to this day I still have problems with comprehension and conceptualization. It's a horrifying thing to be aware that these things have been erased. I never had panic attacks until after the ECT treatments too. I wish they knew what they were doing to some people.
>
>Whilst acknowledging that there are some people that it does help, there are a very large amount of people that it either doesn't help or whom it actually harms; obviously you and I are in the latter category.
I was talked into having the first course. When that didn't help, I was forced to have the second lot of treatment (physically restrained whilst it was administered). This is bound to traumatise someone who also suffers from PTSD, anxiety and panic attacks. I now have no faith in the medical community.
Lyn
Posted by melodyll on September 16, 2003, at 16:49:25
In reply to Re: PubMed: 2400 ECT treatments, posted by Jerrympls on October 11, 2002, at 23:09:27
I was told that ECT treatments only altered my short term memory. Were they wrong. It has wiped out most of my memory. The 32 years of marriage are gone. My remembering my child are gone. These are things I can not bring back. It really hurts me when my husband ask me don't you remember? What did I get out of these treatments? Alot of sadness. These memories will never come back, but I guess I have to deal with life.
Posted by Sebastian on September 16, 2003, at 19:12:21
In reply to ECT treatments, posted by melodyll on September 16, 2003, at 16:49:25
It feels like the memories will never come back. It may take a few years for all the memories to come back. I had a lot of ECT about 6 years ago. At the time of treatment, I did not know anything, I was getting the max ECT posible, whatever that is every day or every third. The only things I remembered at the time was waking on a gurny and shoving needels in my arm. It was atleast a month probably more befor I could remember. Most of the time I just existed in a messed up state of mind. I couldn't realy understand (I was dilusional), a ciggarette looked like a crack pipe, I don't remember any conversations, I didn't even remember later on. It was very effective at erasing my psychotic mind, I was very sedate after these. Stayed that way for more than a year, by this time medications were starting to work, and I was getting far enough from the event. So they can be mind numbing, but they don't kill everything. I still remember things from befor ECT(some I shouldn't remember, for my own sanity). It did take a while(for me a long while) for everything to come back. Its 6 years later now and I still take lots of meds. So the important thing is your mind has not been erased or programed, just disabled temporarily. Not that I wasn't psychotic at all after treatment. I think I was reciving ECT for about a month. How many are you getting? You will be fine I have no troubles now, I just graduated college with a 3.96 and have a job. I can remember stuff from the past, but thats it its all in the past. ECT is prity scary though. I wouldn't try doing anything right after.
Seb
Posted by jerrympls on September 16, 2003, at 20:07:55
In reply to Re: ECT treatments » melodyll, posted by Sebastian on September 16, 2003, at 19:12:21
Has anyone had unilateral ECT? They say that you don't have as much memory loss. I'm considering it as a last resort.
Any experiences?????
Posted by almondjoy on September 17, 2003, at 9:12:04
In reply to Re: PubMed: 2400 ECT treatments, posted by Lyn on October 18, 2002, at 0:50:22
I'm another in this damaged category and I don't know of anyone who believed they helped years later, disadvantages outweighing advantages. ECT's only helped during the weeks I was getting treatments, and I was too disoriented to be depressed. Three and a half years ago, and I also, still have memory problems.
Posted by Jota on September 17, 2003, at 22:03:50
In reply to PubMed: 2400 ECT treatments, posted by Phil on October 11, 2002, at 7:08:56
Here's a link to an extremely positive personal account of ECT by Leon Rosenberg MD, a former dean of the Yale University School of Medicine, former vice president for scientific affairs at Bristol-Myers Squibb, a professor of genetics at Princeton, and a member of the National Academy of Science.
http://www.sunspot.net/news/health/bal-te.mental01sep01,0,6384633.story?coll=bal-health-headlines
Posted by almondjoy on September 19, 2003, at 9:53:17
In reply to Re: PubMed: 2400 ECT treatments, posted by Jota on September 17, 2003, at 22:03:50
thanks, thats interesting
Posted by melodyll on October 2, 2003, at 19:57:21
In reply to ECT treatments, posted by melodyll on September 16, 2003, at 16:49:25
I had ECT treatments three times a week, then every two weeks and then once a month for six months. I had one unilateral ECT done, but all the rest were both sides. I don"t think the only one side did any good. I am on lots of medications. I am on Lamical which is an anti-seizure medication. I can't have ECT being on this medication. I am taking Lamical for depression. Depression is still bad, by the phycologist says I am better than before the ECT treatments.
Posted by ginger C on October 13, 2003, at 10:28:44
In reply to ECT treatments, posted by melodyll on October 2, 2003, at 19:57:21
I am sorry you are having so much trouble recovering from your ECT treatments but just hang in there things do get better after a while. I had ECT treatments two,almost three years ago and within a few months I felt a whole lot better. I too am on Lamictal,lithium, Geodon,welbutrin and lexapro. The combination of the welbutrin and lexapro have done wonders for the remaining depression that ECT did not completely get rid of.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.