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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Cecilia on August 25, 2000, at 5:13:15
I`m still not clear just what the real legality of ordering non FDA approved antidepressants is. What`s the worst that can happen? If, with my luck, my package is the one Customs decides to check, what do they do, just send it back, send you a notice that your package will be confiscated unless you show up with a legal importation permit or what? If the worst that can happen is that you risk losing your money I could live with that. But if you might end up being questioned in person-I would die from the humiliation. Does anyone know?
Posted by stjames on August 25, 2000, at 13:18:39
In reply to Overseas Drug Ordering-Legality, posted by Cecilia on August 25, 2000, at 5:13:15
> I`m still not clear just what the real legality of ordering non FDA approved antidepressants is.
James here....
It is a federal crime to receive controled, prescribed meds with out a prescription. It is
an additional crime to have them mailed. If you can get a doc to write s script then it can be doen legally.james
Posted by stjames on August 25, 2000, at 13:26:02
In reply to Re: Overseas Drug Ordering-Legality, posted by stjames on August 25, 2000, at 13:18:39
i did not mention the worst case possibility;
without a prescription you go to jail.james
Posted by Cecilia on August 25, 2000, at 16:36:11
In reply to Re: Overseas Drug Ordering-Legality, posted by stjames on August 25, 2000, at 13:18:39
> > I`m still not clear just what the real legality of ordering non FDA approved antidepressants is.
>
> James here....
>
> It is a federal crime to receive controled, prescribed meds with out a prescription. It is
> an additional crime to have them mailed. If you can get a doc to write s script then it can be doen legally.
>
> jamesI`m not talking about controlled substances like narcotics-I`m talking about AD`s like Reboxitine, Adrafinil and Moclobemide. People like John L. and others are always talkiing about how simple it is to get them from overseas-I`m just so scared, and yet there`s nothing else left to try. Prescription or not seems irrelevant-It can`t be legal for a U.S. doctor to write a prescription for a non approved drug (and most wouldn`t anyway).
Posted by stjames on August 25, 2000, at 16:55:46
In reply to Re: Overseas Drug Ordering-Legality, posted by Cecilia on August 25, 2000, at 16:36:11
>
> I`m not talking about controlled substances like narcotics-James here....
Controled does not mean narcotic meds, it means all perscribed meds. Scheduled is the word used with meds that are abusable. Yes, docs can write off label scripts or for meds not used in the USA. There make be other steps you need to take to legally get them mailed.
james
Posted by AndrewB on August 26, 2000, at 0:45:23
In reply to Re: Overseas Drug Ordering-Legality, posted by Cecilia on August 25, 2000, at 16:36:11
See the babble thread starting on 11/30/99 to get a better idea of what the FDA or customs actually does with meds ordered from overseas. My impression is that the customs doesn't seize meds like reboxetine, whether it has a doctor's prescription or not. If one was to order a narcotic or other controlled substance without a prescription, it seems that customs may sieze the contents and send you a letter to that effect. That is as far as it goes, jail and other penalties are not an issue as far as I know. But to be fair, James is probably quoting official policy concerning controlled substances. Official policy and actual enforcement actions seem to differ though.
AndrewB
Posted by stjames on August 26, 2000, at 1:29:19
In reply to Re: Overseas Drug Ordering-Legality, posted by AndrewB on August 26, 2000, at 0:45:23
But to be fair, James is probably quoting official policy concerning controlled substances. Official policy and actual enforcement actions seem to differ though.
>
> AndrewBJames here....
Andrew is spot on, I think. I was giving the worst
case outcome based on the current law. At present customs is being nice but
consider the attention this issue is getting in the press. I could see people
with legit needs but no script getting hasseled as the hole is
closed.I have gone to Mexico when my #@$&* HMO messed up
my Rx card. I felt better not dealing with the seperate
legal issue of the mail.James
Posted by mark on August 26, 2000, at 15:09:20
In reply to Re: Overseas Drug Ordering-Legality, posted by stjames on August 26, 2000, at 1:29:19
Greetings all,
I've never ordered AD's through the mail, but I have ordered "smart drugs" (Anacervix, Deprenyl, etc) for years from England. Only once did a shipment get seized by U.S. Customs. All they did was send me a letter saying that I needed a prescription blahblahblah. I sent
them a letter saying that the meds were unavailable in the U.S. and according to FDA law you can import a supply for personal use. They sent me back a letter saying have a nice day we're destroying the shipment.All of these mail order places have a statement saying in effect, if something happens to you or your shipment we aren't liable. When I re-ordered my meds they asked why I was reordering so soon. I told them about the shipment getting seized. When I got this order they had thrown in a few extra boxes at no charge.
So for what it's worth that's my experience.
Posted by JohnL on August 27, 2000, at 4:29:36
In reply to Overseas Drug Ordering-Legality, posted by Cecilia on August 25, 2000, at 5:13:15
A couple of my mailorder packages were intercepted by Customs over the last couple years or so. I could tell, because they had been opened and then resealed again, and there was a green Customs label with someone's signature on the outside. But, after checking the contents, they labeled them "supplements" and then let them continue their journey to my mailbox. No problem at all. This happened once with Amisulpride, once with Bromocriptine, and once with Adrafinil.
As far as I can tell, they are concerned with abusable substances, like controlled substances and illegal substances. The written rules leave room for various interpretations, but in my experience Customs is not concerned with non-abusable psychiatric meds like Zoloft, Prozac, Adrafinil, Amisulpride, Reboxetine, Deprenyl, and such.
I don't know of any suppliers that would sell you something abusable like Ritalin or Adderall. But even if there were a supplier, attempting to import those, with or without a prescription, would probably lead to interception of the shipment and a knock on your door from the DEA.
In a worst case scenario with common non-abusable meds, the shipment might be seized and you would lose your money. But I haven't seen that happen. Usually if that does happen, the supplier will attempt a second shipment. Customs can't check every single package, so a second effort stands a good chance of getting through. But like I said, Customs doesn't seem to show any concern for common psychiatric non-abusable meds. They are quick to label them "supplements" and let them go on their merry way to the receiving address.
Here's a real life story worth noting. I drove to Canada (I live in Maine) to get the MAOI antidepressant Moclobemide. When I got to the Customs station re-entering the USA, they asked to see my purchases, wanted to know the nature of my visit to Canada, the length of time in Canada, and usual stuff like that. The Customs person thumbed through some kind of reference manual, looking up Moclobemide, gave me a glaring stare, handed me back the package, said thank you, and waved me through. Whew! I was worried there for a minute! But all went well. Too bad, after all that, Moclobemide turned out to be a lousy med for me.
I know a guy out of the country who attempted to send his sister in the USA an illegal white powder substance. Not only was the shipment seized, but the DEA arrested both of them. Here again, it shows they are looking for abusable, controlled, and illegal substances. They seem to not care at all about antidepressants and such.
If you are planning to order an overseas shipment of Amisulpride, Andrafinil, Provigil, Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Deprenyl, or Bromocriptine, you aren't likely to experience any problems. I say that based solely on my own experience in importing these things. They're just "supplements". And rightly so. I think Customs deserves credit for recognizing what might be a helpful med for someone suffering from depression, versus something else that is illegal or could lead to abuse. And the bottom line is, none of the suppliers out there would attempt to do mailorder business if they couldn't sell to enough people to make a decent return on investment, and if they would get into trouble themselves. With an abusable, controlled, or illegal substance, both the sender and the receiver get arrested. Just the fact that these suppliers have been shipping worldwide for years shows that they aren't breaking any rules. Or else they would have been shut down or restricted a long time ago. The others who stretched or even broke the rules are now either out of business or restricted to selling just herbs and vitamins.
The only problem I've seen with overseas orders is the waiting time for delivery. It could be as fast as a week, or it could take as long as six weeks. Normally 10 days to 28 days though. In any case, you have to plan ahead and place an order a month before you actually need the med onhand, just to be safe and to be sure you have it when you need it. It's not as convenient as the local pharmacy. That's the only drawback I've seen. But even that isn't any problem as long as one plans ahead. But concerning Customs, I've seen no problems at all with any of the non-abusable psychiatric meds. They view them as "supplements", as evidenced by the word "supplements" handwritten on the green Customs label and signed by a Customs official.
Posted by jakesmith on October 14, 2002, at 21:29:52
In reply to Re: Overseas Drug Ordering-Legality, posted by stjames on August 25, 2000, at 16:55:46
>
> >
> > I`m not talking about controlled substances like narcotics-
>
> James here....
>
> Controled does not mean narcotic meds, it means all perscribed meds. Scheduled is the word used with meds that are abusable. Yes, docs can write off label scripts or for meds not used in the USA. There make be other steps you need to take to legally get them mailed.
>
> james
>
>
Not all meds that require a prescription are controlled; Prozac requires a prescription, but it is not a controlled substance.
>
Posted by Phil on October 15, 2002, at 12:03:32
In reply to Re: Overseas Drug Ordering-Legality, posted by jakesmith on October 14, 2002, at 21:29:52
Schedule 1: High Abuse, No Recognized Medical Use, Lack of Safety
Heroin
LSD
MDMA
Marijuana
Methaqualone
Methadrine (early form of methamphetamine)Schedule 2: High Abuse, Medical Utility, High Dependency Risk
Opium
Morphine
Coca
Cocaine
Methadone
MethamphetamineSchedule 3: Lower Abuse, Medical Utility, Moderate Dependency Risk
Amphetamine
Barbiturate
Valium
Xanax
Anabolic Steroids
CodeineSchedule 4: Limited Abuse, High Medical Utility, Limited Dependency Risk
Chloral Hydrate
Meprobamate
Paraldehyde
PhenobarbitalSchedule 5: Minor Problems
Typically includes preparations of the above drugs in limited amounts
Posted by Phil on October 15, 2002, at 12:12:27
In reply to Re: Overseas Drug Ordering-Legality, posted by jakesmith on October 14, 2002, at 21:29:52
Posted by viridis on October 15, 2002, at 22:45:48
In reply to All drugs are scheduled..see below., posted by Phil on October 15, 2002, at 12:03:32
My understanding is that (in the U.S.) benzos, including Xanax and Valium, are Schedule 4, and the various forms of amphetamine are Schedule 2. Not sure about the others.
Posted by oracle on October 17, 2002, at 18:15:57
In reply to All drugs are scheduled..see below., posted by Phil on October 15, 2002, at 12:03:32
No, this is not correct. All prescribed meds are "controled substances" The schedule system is only for drugs (prescribed or not) that can be abused.
Prozac is not Schedule IV
Posted by Roman on October 18, 2002, at 11:12:57
In reply to Re: Overseas Drug Ordering-Legality, posted by jakesmith on October 14, 2002, at 21:29:52
Posted by jakesmith on October 20, 2002, at 18:35:20
In reply to Re: All drugs are scheduled..see below. (Nope), posted by oracle on October 17, 2002, at 18:15:57
But isn't the list of scheduled drugs merely the list that indicates to which schedule each controlled substance belongs? This list is called the Controlled Substance Schedule, right? It seems that to be on this list and to be a "Controlled Substance" is one and the same, and that since not all drugs are on this list, not all drugs are "Controlled Substances."
Posted by jakesmith on October 20, 2002, at 18:48:49
In reply to Re: All drugs are scheduled..see below. (Nope), posted by oracle on October 17, 2002, at 18:15:57
I meant to write "presribed meds," not "drugs."
This is the end of the thread.
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