![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 29 to 53 of 65. Go back in thread:
Posted by JonW on August 30, 2002, at 19:04:30
In reply to Re: Nardil, posted by cosis on August 30, 2002, at 18:00:30
Hi cosis,
I went 4 weeks before noticing any effect on my anxiety level. Not to discourage you, but I also went 8 weeks before stopping and things didn't get much better. Remember that 12 weeks is a full trial, and according to the anxiety disorder specialist I was working with 60mg is really the minimum dose for social phobia. Hang in there!
Jon
Posted by BK on August 30, 2002, at 22:03:24
In reply to Re: Nardil, posted by cosis on August 30, 2002, at 18:00:30
> Hi,
>
> Now on day 14 of Nardil... I haven't felt any difference in my social anxiety. I felt a bit more dizzy/sleepy/clumsy since I moved up to 60g.. I actually almost fell down the stairs today LOL.
>
> Has anyone gone longer than 2 weeks without feeling any kind of improvement? I am hanging in there but was expecting something to happen by now :/
Hi Cosis,I tried Nardil some fifteen years ago. As I recall, it was a good three weeks before i felt the results and I literally went from feeling nothing to feeling incredible. Unfortunately, it pooped-out after about three months. However, when it was working it was absolute magic! That three month period still is the happiest time of my life. So, hang in there, be patient and think positively!
Posted by cosis on August 30, 2002, at 22:56:35
In reply to Re: Nardil, posted by BK on August 30, 2002, at 22:03:24
Thanks for your comments, did you find out why it stopped working?
Posted by gypsea on August 31, 2002, at 11:32:32
In reply to Re: Nardil, posted by cosis on August 30, 2002, at 22:56:35
cosis,
I just want to remind you that for over 11 years Nardil has been responsible for completely relieving my social phobia/anxiety. Think positively and HANG IN THERE! Obviously we all respond to medications differently, but I hope Nardil begins working wonders for you real soon! (Also keep in mind that I've been using it in conjunction with a benzodiazapine.)
Gypsea
Posted by cosis on September 2, 2002, at 23:56:59
In reply to Nardil, posted by cosis on August 21, 2002, at 17:46:28
Hey just a quick update on Nardil, I am starting to notice my mood changing for the better. I use to feel real suffocated when my sister (who lives with me) would always be around. I would become short with her and moody. The last few day's though I haven't felt this way at all.. it is strange not feeling it after it being a habit.
As for the social anxiety it I still haven't noticed any difference...
Side effects are minimal for me at 60g. Sometimes I can't stop myself from talking even if it's to myself.. I still get dizzy sometimes and feel a little like my head is in the clouds.. These do not both me much though..
Thanks for your input from the people who reply.
Nick
Posted by action_jackson on September 3, 2002, at 15:03:22
In reply to Re: Nardil, posted by cosis on September 2, 2002, at 23:56:59
Nick -
Awesome!
A few years back - someone told me "Just pretend that Nardil was a NEW drug".
Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/> Hey just a quick update on Nardil, I am starting to notice my mood changing for the better. I use to feel real suffocated when my sister (who lives with me) would always be around. I would become short with her and moody. The last few day's though I haven't felt this way at all.. it is strange not feeling it after it being a habit.
>
> As for the social anxiety it I still haven't noticed any difference...
>
> Side effects are minimal for me at 60g. Sometimes I can't stop myself from talking even if it's to myself.. I still get dizzy sometimes and feel a little like my head is in the clouds.. These do not both me much though..
>
> Thanks for your input from the people who reply.
>
> Nick
Posted by Blah on October 6, 2002, at 20:36:07
In reply to Nardil, posted by cosis on August 21, 2002, at 17:46:28
I've suffered from Depression and Anxiety my entire life. My Parents were very emotionaly abusive in inconsistent ways, and I had no friends at all in school, in fact I was tortured on a daily basis. I started deep analasis 3 times a week at 5 years old. It helped some, but I have been in some form of treatment ever since. I am now 28. I have tryed over 10 antidepressants including one triciclicate, prozac, zoloft, paxil, serzone, effexor, welbutrin, trazidone, rameron, and some more I can't remember. These antidepressants not only didn't work, but each actually hurt with cripling side effects. I have also tryed 2 stimulants.
I have always had terrible problems with depression, anxiety, concentration, negative thoughts, social skills, insomnia, motivation, and other problems my whole life, and have been fighting them my whole life, but its just gotten worse and worse over the years. I now live on SSI, I haven't had a romantic relationship in over a decade, and I have no energy or concentration to do any of the things I want to do. For a year or so now being around people has been the only thing that made me feel better, but now even that feels empty or hopeless most of the time.
I'm on .5 of Klonopin twice a day, and I started Nardil a little less than 3 weeks ago. I'm at 45mg now, but will probably go up to 60 tomarrow. When I can get up a good mood the Klonopin helps a bit but not much. The Nardil has done nothing so far (no side effects either though, which is good considering my past history). Within the last few weeks I've lost what little hope I had left, because of events in my life. I feel no woman can ever want me, that no one could ever care about the things i've always wanted to do, that I am too far behind in life, a total loss of energy (not that I had much to begin with), fantasising just fills me with feelings of guilt or pointlessness, and just total hopelessness. But in the end these are only the enevetable result of my lifelong mental illness. I know I have another 2-6 weeks before I may show results and I will hold out, but everyday is just something to be struggled through as I wait for this "miraculous change" that is supposed to occur. Also, when talking bout antidepressants people keep saying things like: "I have my life back," "I'm me again," "I feel Normal again." I've never had my life or happieness or funtionality, EVER. It's always been nothing but lonelyness and pain, it's just gotten worse over time. Can this or any drug really help me achive the confidecnce, possibilities for joy, and social conection that I've never really known. I've always had both hypervidulance and mood sencetivity as long as I can remember. I'm not sure what I'm asking, really I just need something to keep me going while I wait for Nardil to work. The MAOIs are really my last hope. I don't know how much longer I can go on. I have a therapist I like, but after my history she can only do so much. I'm checking out a day program at a hospital, but I've had so much therapy already, and the idea of entering such a comprehencive program seems like more time spent after bad.
PS
If you reply: Please no talk of CBT or DBT I tryed it and found it counter productive.I am not willing to have ECT which I belive to cause brain damage, and which is temporary anyway.
Please no self rightious talk of self-esteem or loving myself. This only fills me with more shame, and really doesn't say anything since no one has perfect self-esteem.
Sorry bout my bad spelling I didn't spell check.
-Thanks
Posted by cosis on October 6, 2002, at 21:08:22
In reply to Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Blah on October 6, 2002, at 20:36:07
Hi There,
My Nardil experience didn't kick in until just past the 4th week at 75mg, I am at 90mg right now.. but I didn't get any side effects until about the 5-6 week which the worst being anorgasmia which I am crossing my fingers will go away like it does for most.. Just hang in there
Posted by Blah on October 7, 2002, at 1:26:35
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by cosis on October 6, 2002, at 21:08:22
> Hi There,
>
> My Nardil experience didn't kick in until just past the 4th week at 75mg, I am at 90mg right now.. but I didn't get any side effects until about the 5-6 week which the worst being anorgasmia which I am crossing my fingers will go away like it does for most.. Just hang in thereBut have the possitive effects gotten better? Do you have anymore confidence either with people or doing things alone. Does it stop you from thinking too much. For instance I never learned to ride a bike, and it is very hard for me cause it is something you have to not think about too much, but I think of everything I am doing I can't stop, and I'm having other counter productive thoughts too. Are symtems like these going away. Do you feel more energized, can you concentrate more, do you feel less worthless or inadiquate. Can you do more in a day than you could before. And how dramatic is the difference. How capable are you at escaping yourself? I have not had any side effects yet. It is the possitive effects I care about. I will deal with side effects as they come, but if the drug doesn't work on my cripling symtoms, or doesn't do much for them, then the side effects are irrelivant cause I will dump the drug. Has the drug helped you enough to make it worth it, please be descriptive on how it has helped and how it hasn't.
-Thanks
Posted by cosis on October 7, 2002, at 8:50:32
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Blah on October 7, 2002, at 1:26:35
Hi,
Yes they got better, My problem was pretty moderate social anxiety disorder w/ a little bit of depresseion. I do have more confidence now than before. I think it also helped my from overanalizing things. I also feel more energized, especially in the morning. I wake up now at 6am-7am when I use to have to set my alarm at 9am to wake up. And when I did wake up I was still out of it. Now I wake up with energy and a clear head. I am able to do more since I wake up 2-3 hours earlier now and also am not as afraid of social activities as I was.
The drug has helped me not feel nearly as much anxiety as I was when around people, I can go to the mall or store now without being so self-conscious or sweating. I am even thinking of going back to college now in the srping. The first thing I noticed was a mood improvement. I use to get moody and when I got moody I was depressed some nights which doesn't happened anymore. I am more talkative also, but still somewhat shy. I hope to get over this though with exposure. Overall I am happy with the drug. The positive effects outway the side effects.
The only side effect to bother me was anorgasmia which occurred about the 5 week, then totally shut off by the 6-7 week. I have not had a orgasm in about 2 weeks now. This is the only side effect I really do not like. I hope though it diminishes over the next 1-3 months.....
-Nick
Posted by Blah on October 8, 2002, at 23:12:49
In reply to Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Blah on October 6, 2002, at 20:36:07
> I've suffered from Depression and Anxiety my entire life. My Parents were very emotionaly abusive in inconsistent ways, and I had no friends at all in school, in fact I was tortured on a daily basis. I started deep analasis 3 times a week at 5 years old. It helped some, but I have been in some form of treatment ever since. I am now 28. I have tryed over 10 antidepressants including one triciclicate, prozac, zoloft, paxil, serzone, effexor, welbutrin, trazidone, rameron, and some more I can't remember. These antidepressants not only didn't work, but each actually hurt with cripling side effects. I have also tryed 2 stimulants.
>
> I have always had terrible problems with depression, anxiety, concentration, negative thoughts, social skills, insomnia, motivation, and other problems my whole life, and have been fighting them my whole life, but its just gotten worse and worse over the years. I now live on SSI, I haven't had a romantic relationship in over a decade, and I have no energy or concentration to do any of the things I want to do. For a year or so now being around people has been the only thing that made me feel better, but now even that feels empty or hopeless most of the time.
>
> I'm on .5 of Klonopin twice a day, and I started Nardil a little less than 3 weeks ago. I'm at 45mg now, but will probably go up to 60 tomarrow. When I can get up a good mood the Klonopin helps a bit but not much. The Nardil has done nothing so far (no side effects either though, which is good considering my past history). Within the last few weeks I've lost what little hope I had left, because of events in my life. I feel no woman can ever want me, that no one could ever care about the things i've always wanted to do, that I am too far behind in life, a total loss of energy (not that I had much to begin with), fantasising just fills me with feelings of guilt or pointlessness, and just total hopelessness. But in the end these are only the enevetable result of my lifelong mental illness. I know I have another 2-6 weeks before I may show results and I will hold out, but everyday is just something to be struggled through as I wait for this "miraculous change" that is supposed to occur. Also, when talking bout antidepressants people keep saying things like: "I have my life back," "I'm me again," "I feel Normal again." I've never had my life or happieness or funtionality, EVER. It's always been nothing but lonelyness and pain, it's just gotten worse over time. Can this or any drug really help me achive the confidecnce, possibilities for joy, and social conection that I've never really known. I've always had both hypervidulance and mood sencetivity as long as I can remember. I'm not sure what I'm asking, really I just need something to keep me going while I wait for Nardil to work. The MAOIs are really my last hope. I don't know how much longer I can go on. I have a therapist I like, but after my history she can only do so much. I'm checking out a day program at a hospital, but I've had so much therapy already, and the idea of entering such a comprehencive program seems like more time spent after bad.
>
> PS
> If you reply: Please no talk of CBT or DBT I tryed it and found it counter productive.
>
> I am not willing to have ECT which I belive to cause brain damage, and which is temporary anyway.
>
> Please no self rightious talk of self-esteem or loving myself. This only fills me with more shame, and really doesn't say anything since no one has perfect self-esteem.
>
> Sorry bout my bad spelling I didn't spell check.
>
> -ThanksUpdate, they didn't up my dose yet. The day program was a joke and I'm not going to do it. I want to sleep all the time, I don't know if its the Nardil or just the depression. I feel like I really have lost all hope, on many levels. The hopelessness and emptyness seem to overpower all of my funtioning from socializing, to housework, to doing projects I want to work on. Existence seems pointless and painful, but its hard to see how this drug will really change that. It just better work soon if it does.
Posted by Denise528 on October 10, 2002, at 13:10:33
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Blah on October 8, 2002, at 23:12:49
Hi,
Have you tried Zyprexa? Is the Nardil not helping you at all?
Don't give up hope, there are plenty of new drugs coming on the scene, if not now, in a few years time.
Denise
Posted by Denise528 on October 10, 2002, at 13:26:51
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Denise528 on October 10, 2002, at 13:10:33
.
Posted by Blah on October 11, 2002, at 0:05:26
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Denise528 on October 10, 2002, at 13:10:33
> Hi,
>
> Have you tried Zyprexa? Is the Nardil not helping you at all?
>
> Don't give up hope, there are plenty of new drugs coming on the scene, if not now, in a few years time.
>
> DeniseYes I am in the US. Why would I try Zyprexa? It is an antipsycotic. I have dysthymia, a-tyical depression and anxiety (GAD, PTSD, Panic are the names important the symtems are the same). That drug is meant for schizophrenia and maybe bipolar depression (mine is unipolar). As for waiting around for new drugs, all the new drugs are like celexa, in the same classes (like ssri) that hurt me. There also is no more time left. I can feel myself giving out like I'm going catatonic. Hope is already pretty much gone. In the end love and affection would do more than any drug, but it doesn't exist in my family, and women run away. So far the drug hasn't had any possitive effects, but I have taken it less than a month, so in a few weeks who can say. I'm very depressed, and nothing shakes me out of it for long. I've started to become dizzy and more uncordinated. I don't know if this is because of low blood pressure (I've started eating more salt, and eating more in general), or if this is another side effect I can do nothing about. If it doesn't work maybe I'll try it with lithium or adderal, maybe I'll try the other MAOI (Parnate I think it's called), if I have any effort left maybe I'll even try one more tryciclicate. Then I'm threw with drugs, and possibly everything else. Everyday is so hard to get through, and its been this way too long. Existance hurts.
Posted by Denise528 on October 11, 2002, at 10:33:35
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Blah on October 11, 2002, at 0:05:26
Hi,
Don't give up. I think I'm unipolar and Zyprexa really got me out of a hole so maybe it would work for you. What about ECT, surely if you were that desparate you would try anything.
From what I have read, they are researching new drugs CRF Antagonists and these Substance P Drugs, they're doing trials in the States, can't you ask if you can get on board?
Denise
Posted by Blah on October 11, 2002, at 11:34:46
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Denise528 on October 11, 2002, at 10:33:35
> Hi,
>
> Don't give up. I think I'm unipolar and Zyprexa really got me out of a hole so maybe it would work for you. What about ECT, surely if you were that desparate you would try anything.
>
> From what I have read, they are researching new drugs CRF Antagonists and these Substance P Drugs, they're doing trials in the States, can't you ask if you can get on board?
>
> DeniseECT only works cause it causes brain trama, and it is a temporary solution. There have been cases where they forget to put the mouth peice in and people bite off their toungs. ECT is not a solution. Further if every drug on the market does not work I see no reason why the next series of "Miracle Drugs" should be any better. I am in pain now, a pain I've been in my entire life, a pain that has become intolerable. I've tryed more than enough of these cures, and have found only more suffering. Maybe I'll try Zyprexa, but the day comes when you have to stop taking these drugs, when it becomes obvious they won't work, and will only make things worse. That day is coming fast.
Posted by Dinah on October 12, 2002, at 11:44:09
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Blah on October 11, 2002, at 0:05:26
> In the end love and affection would do more than any drug, but it doesn't exist in my family, and women run away.
At the risk of having my head bitten off on the medication board, have you tried psychotherapy? Psychotherapy can help you with interpersonal issues that would help you find friendship and love that would add meaning to your life. Your family of origin might be lacking in love and affection, but with the proper help you can build your own family that incorporates it. Therapy isn't a substitute for medication, but since you mentioned the lack of love and affection in your life, therapy aimed at addressing these issues might be a useful adjunct.
Posted by Blah on October 12, 2002, at 17:19:18
In reply to Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Blah on October 6, 2002, at 20:36:07
I started deep analasis 3 times a week at 5 years old. It helped some, but I have been in some form of treatment ever since.
>
> I have a therapist I like, but after my history she can only do so much.As I said before I have had psycoanalasis, psycothearapy, group, hospitalization, DBT, social workers, so many different therapies I can't remember them all, since 5 years old. It has been my whole life, and in many ways it has been more hurtful than helpful. I have probably had over 20 thearapists over the years, some I saw for considerable amounts of time, and some I quit early cause it was obvious they had nothing to offer me. It has come to the point that I often know more about psycology than they do. Several times I've even corrected pdocs and been right, to their embarassment. I don't understand why you are suggesting something I have tryed more than anything else. It is the constant failier of therapy that has caused me to be so burnt out, and to turn to drugs as a last resort.
Posted by Denise528 on October 14, 2002, at 10:53:42
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Blah on October 11, 2002, at 11:34:46
Blah,
I'm sure if you went to an expert in ECT they would not forget to put the mouthpiece in.
These new "miracle drugs" may not work but at least you will no sooner whether they will or not. Apparently the substance P drugs are supposed to work in a matter of days rather than weeks.
If you have finished with drugs and therapy, what are you going to do next or are you just going to grit your teeth and get on with it?
Denise
Posted by Blah on October 15, 2002, at 9:54:16
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road - Blah, posted by Denise528 on October 14, 2002, at 10:53:42
> Blah,
>
> I'm sure if you went to an expert in ECT they would not forget to put the mouthpiece in.
>
> These new "miracle drugs" may not work but at least you will no sooner whether they will or not. Apparently the substance P drugs are supposed to work in a matter of days rather than weeks.
>
> If you have finished with drugs and therapy, what are you going to do next or are you just going to grit your teeth and get on with it?
>
> DeniseEveryday is pain. The solution will probably be to stop the days.
Posted by Denise528 on October 15, 2002, at 13:52:32
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road - Blah, posted by Blah on October 15, 2002, at 9:54:16
I know exactly how you feel but you shouldn't give up until you have tried absolutely everything there is to try, with the exception of harmful substances that is. I've given myself 4 years to keep trying, no doubt I'll get to the end of the 4 years and add on another year.
Don't give up, at least you know what does or what could make you feel better, so you know it's possible.
Denise
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 15, 2002, at 18:08:17
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road - Blah, posted by Blah on October 15, 2002, at 9:54:16
Hi...reading these posts every few days, I just a few moments ago became aware of how extremely difficult and serious your situation is; it seems as though you have spent 23 years of your still young life in an all-out effort to undo the damage done to you by the emotional abuse you suffered, and without success so far- I can't imagine anything more discouraging. And when you are trying this hard, and still having to cope with so much pain, it's inevitable that you are not going to have the energy to grow socially and academically the way you would like to. Something in your posts have given me the feeling that you are a really good guy with a lot of potential and valuable things to offer others. As you know better than any of us, therapy can help you find these things out for yourself, build a healthy relationship with your therapist that will help you grow, and begin to put new, better ways of relating to people into action, but only if you are not too depressed to engage in therapy enough to accomplish any of these things. If your pain is just too severe to be able to do that,it's just one more failed endeavor. It sounds to me as if you are so down now that you need to do something else first. I don't mean that you should stop seeing your therapist; it's just that, while you keep seeing her, I think you need to investigate what neurophysiological treatments might be available to you.
To go over everything I am aware of:
1. CRH and Substance P antagonists- these are only in Phase 2-3 studies; I think they are going to be very helpful, but it sounds to me that the ones which have looked safe may not be very effective, and the more effective ones are not known to be safe yet. They would not be my first choice as a trial this year.
2.ECT and rTMS- ECT is very scary to contemplate, although many people are reporting good results and manageable memory deficits which last months but are not permanent. I know two people well who have had it- they had psychotic, suicidal depressions; they have both remained well for many years, and are both academics and writers- no memory deficits allowed in their fields! Once in a while, someone reports a bad experience. I would keep this open as an option. The rTMS is still experimental, so in order to get it you would have to join a study, with the possibility of getting sham treatment. Apparently, those given sham treatment during the trial are offered the real thing immediately afterwards. The preliminary reports I have read indicate that it is easy to undergo, comparable in results to ECT, and is without any memory impairments. You do have the hassle of being in a study. My psychiatrist said that she has had personal experience of two patients, both extremely drug-resistant, who had very good results with the rTMS.
3.Cortisol antagonists. You first need to know your morning and evening cortisol levels, your 24-hour urinary cortisol, and whether or not you suppress normally after a 1 mg. dose of dexamethasone. In long-standing depression, about half of the people tested will have cortisol abnormalities. It's not tested for much, because there isn't yet a good treatment. Various supplements are supposed to lower them a little, but I think the only available treatment is RU-486- mefipristone. It was "fast-tracked" by the FDA as an effective treatment for serious depression in August- it really normalizes the cortisol. There are large studies going on at Stanford and NIH; for psychotic monopolar depression at Stanford and bipolar at NIH. But this drug is in an unusual position, as it's known to be safe for abortions, and has been used millions of times. The dosage being used in the studies I mentioned is 600 mg. daily for 7 days. If you are interested, you could consult an endocrinologist and ask for "compassionate use" permission. You can't get this drug from a pharmacist, but only from a doctor who has registered with the drug company, which is Danco.
Severe depression can alter one's perception of themselves and the way they relate to the world to an incredible degree. Even through these posts, I am seeing a much different person from the way you describe yourself. Do try to hang on and look into the things I have mentioned which may seem appropriate to you, as well as others I may not know about. Also, please keep posting to us- say anything at all, but just keep in touch.
Pfinstegg
Posted by Blah on October 17, 2002, at 1:54:26
In reply to For Blah..please try everything, posted by Pfinstegg on October 15, 2002, at 18:08:17
> Hi...reading these posts every few days, I just a few moments ago became aware of how extremely difficult and serious your situation is; it seems as though you have spent 23 years of your still young life in an all-out effort to undo the damage done to you by the emotional abuse you suffered, and without success so far- I can't imagine anything more discouraging. And when you are trying this hard, and still having to cope with so much pain, it's inevitable that you are not going to have the energy to grow socially and academically the way you would like to. Something in your posts have given me the feeling that you are a really good guy with a lot of potential and valuable things to offer others.
I'd like to thank you for really thinking about my situation rather than being judgemental. This is a problem I've had from many people, not only doctors but other people with mental illnesses as well, usually people who, posibly with a better personal support system, have been able to pull themselves out more easily. I often feel so much shame. There is so much I want to do, and learn. I picture it so well in my head, but most days I'm so tired, can't concentrate, have no energy mental or physical, and it has been like this my whole life, but is getting worse. You say still young, but my youth is really gone, and that fills me with even more hopelessness. I used to feel romance existed for me in this world. Now I look around at the women I know and meet, even ones I am only moderately atracted too, and I know that no one wants me. I've asked several. Just damaged goods I guess. I won't be able to go on if having that part of life takes another 20 years of work. Even if it works, I don't think Nardil could give me that much effort. Having that part of life even if only occasionaly is very important to me. With so little closeness and affection I need it, even if it was only from time to time.
Eccept for ECT and the magnettic treatment the: neurophysiological treatments do not have alot of info bout them on the net. 2 or more years ago I seriously considered ECT. It had that great instant comic book quality. Like the average man who's hit by weird radiation and becomes super powered, I had the idea of this big machine that, if even for a little while, would make the depression and energy problems go away. However, the more research I did the less that fantacy held. It is very temporary, I don't think it lasts for even a month. There is alot of evidence that the reason depression goes away momentarily is because you feel the same shock you would in a car accident. I have also heard many negative reports from reserch and people I've met face to face who told me that the depression did not get better, and that the memory loss, for them, was permenant. This procedure for many is ineffective, and unlike drugs any negative effects will be much more permanent. The magnetic therapy I thought of too, but as you say the study sittuation is a problem. Also it is a new therapy, and my have terible dangers we aren't aware of yet. The MAOI does still need time to work, but if it doesn't, as I have begun to fear I will discuss these options with my dr. I've lost so much hope its hard to see anything snapping me out of it, at this point.> Severe depression can alter one's perception of themselves and the way they relate to the world to an incredible degree. Even through these posts, I am seeing a much different person from the way you describe yourself.
How am I a different person than the way I describe myself. I think this is a compliment, but with so much specific negative reinforcement, I need the positive feedback to be specific too.
-Thanks
Blah
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 17, 2002, at 13:58:07
In reply to Re: For Blah..please try everything, posted by Blah on October 17, 2002, at 1:54:26
was that you have the three things women like best: a warm, loving heart, intelligence and sexiness. But right now, these are so covered over with shame, discouragement, lack of self-confidence, exhaustion, and just an extremely severe depression that you are not able to even begin to use what you have. You've got to know, yourself, that those good things are there, even if you're often not quite sure, in order for things to improve for you socially. It sounds to me as if you are so depressed now that you are convinced that you are somehow fatally lacking in everything.
What to do...
1. The medications. Nardil may begin to be helpful, as you say, or if it isn't, you have nothing to lose by trying all the MAOI's. These sometimes help, even if only partially, when all the SSRI's and mood stabilizers don't.
2. rTMS. Since you don't want to take ECT, why not keep rTMS open as an option? I think there are about 15 centers in the US studying it right now. It is supposed to act like a defibrillator, making all the neurons fire simultaneously, which seems to have the effect of resetting the functioning of all the neurotransmitters.
It is probably not a "permanent" treatment, either, but getting back to a brain that functions normally, even for a few months, would allow other ADs to work more effectively, and also allow you to view yourself more favorably as you work in psychotherapy. If I find that I need it, I would join one of these trials, rather than undergo ECT- I'm with you on that. I would go to Emory University, because they have such an excellent reputation for research and knowledge in mood disorder.3. Cortisol. I decided to find out what my cortisol levels were after four years of rather unsuccessful treatment of major depression with twice-weekly psychoanalytic psychotherapy combined with Prozac, Paxil, Zyprexa and Wellbutrin. The endocrinologist I saw found that the 24-hour levels were abnormally high, and that they got higher and higher during the day, rather than gradually lower, as they are supposed to. When I took the DST (dexamethasone suppression test), there was no suppression. This all meant that I have pseudo-Cushing's syndrome; apparently about half of depressed people do have varying degrees of it, and probably close to 100% of those who have suffered severe childhood trauma. The next question was- what to do about it? We are in the process of thinking this out; a 7-day trial of mefipristone is the most likely possibility. In the meantime, with the support of both my psychiatrist and the endocrinologist, I have been taking tianeptine, a French AD, which, while it does not lower circulating cortisol, does protect one's brain from its damaging effects. It is such a quiet medication, like an aspirin, but I have noticed a slow but steady improvement in my mood, self-confidence and energy levels over the past 7 weeks- nothing earth-shaking, but a definite improvement.
4. Do you have a really good psychotherapist? If you can find the right combination of drug/physiological treatment to get feeling better enough to feel more hopeful about therapy, then you need one skilled enough to help you begin to have new, positive experiences with him/her so that you can build on those to develop a satisfying life for yourself.
All this doesn't have to take 20 years; it could take two. The really, really hard thing is to find all the elements you need so that it will happen. I personally really want to know what happens- will you keep in touch?
Pfinstegg
As for romance- well, that's the hardest thing for anyone, well, or ill! Why not give yourself a little break in your expectations in that area until you feel better? You said your spirits are lifted by even small human encounters- you could concentrate on the least-stressful, rewarding and brief of those for the time being. When you feel better, there'll be a lovable girl(s) out there for you.
Posted by Blah on October 18, 2002, at 11:40:04
In reply to Re: For Blah.. what I sensed about you, posted by Pfinstegg on October 17, 2002, at 13:58:07
> 4. Do you have a really good psychotherapist? If you can find the right combination of drug/physiological treatment to get feeling better enough to feel more hopeful about therapy, then you need one skilled enough to help you begin to have new, positive experiences with him/her so that you can build on those to develop a satisfying life for yourself.I feel she's good. She is supportive and nonjudgemental, and does not have a personal or theoretical agenda beyond my well being, which is much more than I can say for most thearapists. However, I think thearapy can only be management at this point. I think I've had all my breakthroughs, or at least most of them. It's just that I'm in so much pain I can't use that knowledge.
>
> All this doesn't have to take 20 years; it could take two. The really, really hard thing is to find all the elements you need so that it will happen. I personally really want to know what happens- will you keep in touch?
>
> Pfinstegg
>
> As for romance- well, that's the hardest thing for anyone, well, or ill! Why not give yourself a little break in your expectations in that area until you feel better? You said your spirits are lifted by even small human encounters- you could concentrate on the least-stressful, rewarding and brief of those for the time being. When you feel better, there'll be a lovable girl(s) out there for you.If Nardil or something really starts to work, maybe I could put off women, but now doing that just fills me with lonelyness and inadiquacy. Especially when I see my friends relationships. Also platonic friendships are loosing much of there umph. It starts to feel repetative when it can never lead to something more intamate (I don't just mean sexually). Also in two years I will be 30. I feel as if my youth has been wasted. Maybe it will be worth it if it comes but I've had so many false cures before that I can't be possitive without some results. In the end my situation would not be so bad if i had had some relationships and sex along the way. In the end affection is more powerful than drugs.
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