![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 216 to 240 of 479. Go back in thread:
Posted by Roo on September 18, 2002, at 18:43:10
In reply to Re: Alternatives » Roo, posted by BarbaraCat on September 16, 2002, at 15:05:09
> Roo,
> Good luck to you - you've got my total support
on this. I think it's helping alot.So you're starting to feel a lot better? How long
did it take?If nothing
else, I'll be a very fit and healthy mentally
ill person. I'll ask my naturopath whom I'll be
seeing on Friday his ideas on your finding a
good doc.Thank you...I'd appreciate that...or has the appt. already
passed? If so, how did it go?
I'm reading a fascinating book about
hormones and their role in physical and mental
health (can't really separate them) that might
be of interest to you. It's called 'Screaming
to be Heard: Hormone connections women suspect
and doctors still ignore" by Elizabeth Vliet,
MD (newest edition). It's not so much
'alternative medicine' as a very thorough and
enlightening endocrine study. I suspect you're
a women? This will be extremely relevant.
I've wondered about hormonal stuff. I had a complete
endocrinology screening though, not too long ago, and
everything checked out normal. Yes, I'm a 34 year old
female. The book sounds interesting. Sometimes it
certainly FEELS hormonal...I'll get PMS like symptoms
(irritability, big time, almost like rage) only it won't
be PMS.
I'm actually feeling pretty discouraged at the moment...I
don't think the acupuncture is helping substantially...I'll
feel really good the day of my appt., but it doesn't last.
My next step is homeopathy...but I'm feeling despairing...I
don't know how much longer I can go feeling like shit...and this
stuff is SO expensive it's breaking me. I'm not sure what to
do. I loathe the thought of going back on conventional meds, but
if I have to, I will. I'm not going to live my life in misery.
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 18, 2002, at 20:24:58
In reply to Re: Alternatives--Barbara Cat, posted by Roo on September 18, 2002, at 18:43:10
If you feel like it's your hormones, there's a good chance it is. If you have PMS, you have a hormonal imbalance - it's really not normal to have PMS. That book is continuing to be an eyeopener. For instance, estrogen is neurotransmitter mediator. Too much progesterone doesn't allow cellular binding of serotonin, NE. Estrogen has a direct impact on the thyroid gland. When estrogen declines, (such as in the latter half of the cycle), serotonin goes way down. Estrogen also keeps in check the enzyme that destroys MAO, like on on-board MAOI. Even if the underlying problem isn't specifically reproductive hormones, it's likely to be hormonally related and besides it's fascinating info.
I had my appt yesterday and some of it's looking like a hypoglycemia problem, actually almost prediabetic. I'll be doing The Zone diet to bring my insulin/glucagon into balance and that should help alot. I did hours of researching last night on 'reactive hypoglycemia' and boy, there I was to a T. When blood sugar dips, there's a push to get that sugar to the brain and sending one into a fight/flight state thanks to a surge in NE does the trick. Problem is that the flood of cortisol from the adreniline wires up our autonomic stress system and it feel like constant anxiety and panic. Even my fibromyalgia-like symptoms made sense! Most primary care docs test only for glucose fasting hypoglycemia which isn't the same thing. And even if this isn't 'the answer', I'm learning an incredible amount of relevant stuff that all interrelates.
It probably goes back to the pituitary which just seems like it became fried at some point. My metabolic functions are compromised and tweaking one branch sends the other systems into imbalance. So, I'll be continuing with the vitamin/mineral IV drips and will be starting other therapies to target the hormonal imbalances, and it's only the beginning. So very ghastly expensive! We can't afford, but I'll clean toilets to pay for this because I really believe I'm on to something - my naturopath is filling in the gaps and providing the analysis, but I'm feeling like new roads are appearing and my energy is coming back to explore them.
I don't blame you for being discouraged. My thoughts on accupuncture, homeopathy and the enegy therapies are that if they're going to turn a long-standing ill system around, it will take a long time to bring about large changes. Once you're there, the change can be maintained. But if you have hormonal dysfunction going on, then I think you need more heavy hitting artillerary while still keeping the whole body approach. I think it's all worth it, Roo. I was getting so physically emotionally and spiritually sick that time was running out fast.
He didn't have any brainstorms as to how to find a good doctor. There is www.acam.org to search for a one. Another interesting one is:
http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/ There's an online health analysis, but also a list of naturopaths by state. Good luck, friend, and keep me posted. You might want to ask your acupuncturist.
Posted by Jill on September 18, 2002, at 21:43:40
In reply to Re: Congratulations!! » Jill, posted by BarbaraCat on September 17, 2002, at 21:51:38
Thanks so much for the kind words! I'm still a bit stunned by the engagement, but my fiance (how weird to type that!) and I are very happy, even though we admit it's a bit scary...good scary though!
Here's a very interesting article on Catholicism/OCD that I found a few months ago. It actually helped me to read it, because my symptoms started up around the time I had a very intense CCD teacher when I was 12 yrs. old. My symptoms eventually made going to mass very difficult and emotionally painful and included intense fear of harming people I loved...to the point I didn't want to take care of small children or go out with friends. Thankfully, with counseling, understanding of the condition, medication, and a sense of humor, my OCD is very manageable.
I got a good chuckle out of the line from a church "higher up" that said "I don't know anyone in the clergy who even exhibits any mild signs of OCD" (paraphrased...)
I laughed out loud...then what was I doing during all those Hail Marys and crossing my forehead, lips, and heart and repeating over and over "Lord Hear Our Prayer" ?
(No offence to any Catholics. My parents are very devout and I see positives in Catholicism too...I just personally found that line funny.)
Take care, and I hope you find this article helpful.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2014244.stm
Jill :)
Posted by McPac on September 18, 2002, at 22:41:40
In reply to OCD/Catholicism article, posted by Jill on September 18, 2002, at 21:43:40
Jill,
Do you take any other med besides the Remeron?
Also, how long did it take you before you felt 'fine' on the Remeron?
Lastly, congratulations to you on your engagement.
Posted by Jill on September 19, 2002, at 7:37:25
In reply to Jill Re: OCD/Catholicism article, posted by McPac on September 18, 2002, at 22:41:40
Thanks for the congratulations! I began feeling really good on Remeron about 1 month after starting (we started at 15 and then went to 30mg and finally 45mg in just a few weeks...I think I was on Remeron at 45mg when I really started feeling great).
I had been taking Prozac for a short time before Remeron...but I really felt better on Remeron. I've read (and found myself...so has my sister) that Remeron seems to "kick in" faster than the SSRIs.
Yes, I only take Remeron for my OCD/depression. I haven't had a major depressive episode in 5 1/2 years...since I began Remeron.
Hope this helps. Have a great day!
Jill
Posted by Roo on September 19, 2002, at 9:30:11
In reply to Re: Alternatives » Roo, posted by BarbaraCat on September 18, 2002, at 20:24:58
For instance, estrogen is
neurotransmitter mediator. Too much
progesterone doesn't allow cellular binding
of serotonin, NE. Estrogen has a direct impact
on the thyroid gland. When estrogen declines,
(such as in the latter half of the cycle),
serotonin goes way down. Estrogen also keeps
in check the enzyme that destroys MAO, like
on on-board MAOI. Even if the underlying problem
isn't specifically reproductive hormones, it's
likely to be hormonally related and besides it's
fascinating info.
Well what do you think about the fact that I got my hormones
tested and the tests showed "normal"? Do you think the conventional
testing is accurate? I know it has something to do with low seratonin,
b/c the SSRI's work well and fast for me, and the non-seratoningenic
drugs don't do much for me. I guess the question is WHY is it low--hormones,
vitamin deficiencies, ?? Do the naturopaths do blood work and testing?
I find that comforting somehow...the testing....it seems like something concrete
you can point to and say "yes--see here...you're low in b vitamins".>
> I had my appt yesterday and some of it's looking
like a hypoglycemia problem, actually almost
prediabetic. I'll be doing The Zone diet to
bring my insulin/glucagon into balance and that
should help alot. I did hours of researching
last night on 'reactive hypoglycemia' and boy,
That's interesting. I know I definitely am hypoglycemic.
And horribly addicted to sugar! I know I use sugar and carbs
to self medicate.
So very ghastly expensive! We can't afford
, but I'll clean toilets to pay for this because
I really believe I'm on to something -
my naturopath is filling in the gaps and
providing the analysis, but I'm feeling
like new roads are appearing and my energy
is coming back to explore them.
I'm happy for you, but also a little jealous. I feel like success is
for everyone else but me in these matters--I've seen so many people
recover without drugs or be able to take them for the requisite 6 months
and be recovered. I feel screwed. I'm sure that's my depression talking,
but you kind of need a positive attitude to get through this stuff, and
I just don't have it. I'm definitely despairing. I just
don't know if I can make it and I feel so shitty about that.
I'm just feeling too bad (and have been really bad, like
suicidal thoughts and all that) for the past 5 months. I'd
like to be able to tough it out and give these things time,
but, damn. The acupuncturist actually told me if you're not
getting substantial relief after a month, it's probably not going
to work. And she's tops in her field--very, very qualified.
I'm so frustrated. I wish some fairy godmother would just appear and
help me out with all this, but that aint gonna happen.>
But if you have hormonal
dysfunction going on, then I think you need
more heavy hitting artillerary while still
keeping the whole body approach. I think it's
all worth it, Roo. I was getting so physically
emotionally and spiritually sick that time was
running out fast.
Not sure how to figure out the hormonal stuff...especially
since I've already had them tested by an endocrinologist and
they came out normal. Maybe I should just take an estrogen
heavy BC pill and see if it makes me feel better. I remember
being on the pill a LONG time ago, and it made my depression
worse. It was a low dose pill.I don't know, B. Cat. How long did it take you before you
started feeling mentally better?Those sites were interesting--thanks. I might do the
digital naturopath report. Did you get one? Was it helpful?
Might be a good thing to bring to a naturopath.Thanks, and sorry for the whining. I just feel like I'm banging
my head against a brick wall and needed to vent.
>
Posted by Roo on September 19, 2002, at 14:21:03
In reply to Re: Alternatives, posted by Roo on September 19, 2002, at 9:30:11
I don't know if this is hormonal or what's happening....
but the last two weeks I feel like I'm pregnant or something
(which is totally impossible)...I'm nauseous, nothing tastes right
or good, certain smells or tastes make me want to puke, my breasts
are sore. My G.I. track is totally screwed up and has been since
zoloft messed it up a couple of months ago (I was only on it for a month
and quit for G.I. reasons, but it's never been the same since...now I
feel like I have IBS or something. I feel like I'm turning into a hypochondriac.
And I don't know what's happening.
Don't know if you would have any insight into that at all, but thought
I'd give it a shot.
Posted by McPac on September 19, 2002, at 14:41:56
In reply to Re: Jill Re: OCD/Catholicism article, posted by Jill on September 19, 2002, at 7:37:25
Jill, thank you for your information. It was VERY much appreciated.
Posted by McPac on September 19, 2002, at 14:45:34
In reply to Re: Alternatives, posted by Roo on September 19, 2002, at 9:30:11
Roo "That's interesting. I know I definitely am hypoglycemic.
And horribly addicted to sugar! I know I use sugar and carbs
to self medicate.">>>>>>>>Try to lay off the sugar Roo...it's a definite "no-no".
Don't feel bad about needing the meds Roo....I know that I have to have them. I may, possibly, be going to the Pfeiffer Treatment Center...will report back if I do decide to go there.
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 19, 2002, at 14:54:03
In reply to Re: Alternatives, posted by Roo on September 19, 2002, at 9:30:11
Your question of why is serotonin low is the question of the decade. If we could figure that one out, there would be a race to patent it. The reproductive and other hormones certainly play a big part in it, but it leads back to where did they go out of whack in the first place. Alot of theories about toxins in our environment acting as neuro-modulators and hormonal disruptors. You asked about testing and that also is a very controversial subject. Hormones ebb and flow, especially in a menstruating woman, so blood work should be done at least twice during the month. What the tests measure is the serum, or blood levels of circulating hormones, however, they don't measure how and if the hormones are binding efficiently on a cellular level. Many substances are molecular mimickers of hormones and fit in the receptor site enough to block the real hormones from binding, but the fit isn't close enough to signal the cell's response. So you can have plenty of hormones circulating in the blood serum, whether estrogen, progestin, thyroid, androgens, insulin, glucagon, whatever, but if they're not able to effect a cellular response, it's like starving in the midst of plenty. The pituitary is the master gland in all this, so it's likely that this is where it begins. That's good news, but it doesn't help since there isn't a way to 'fix' a dysfunctional pituitary that anyone knows about at this time.
One thing that stands out is the fact that you have PMS and had bad reactions to birth control pills. Both are high progesterone states. Progesterone in exess can block estrodiol and estrodiol is needed for serotonin synthesis. This isn't to say that you simply gobble estrogen pills either. I think that's the standard medical approach which works in the short run but doesn't address the underlying dysfunction. But your endocrine tests may simply be telling a true picture and something else is going on.
Roo, the fact that you said you're a sugar and carb self medicator is the red flag. It sounds like 'reactive' rather than 'glucose fasting' hypoglycemia. If this is so, it's a huge piece in the puzzle of why you're feeling bad. This is the piece of the puzzle that's fitting for me. I've been following a version of The Zone diet just recently and it's been pretty amazing in how better I feel. If you suspect you have a condition linked to low blood sugar and the resultant insulin spikes then a good nutritionally oriented doctor or practitioner who REALLY knows what they're doing is the first step. Really, when you think of it, we have no control over anything in our lives except what we put into our bodies. Eating a high carbo and sugar diet is the first place to look and start finding ways to control it. It's not easy cause it becomes like a drug.
You say you don't want to go back to ADs. Perhaps as a stop gap until other systems get under control? You asked how long it took. It's been about 1 month since I started seeing him and getting intense treatments. I'm down to 7 mg of Remeron and have reduced the other meds considerably. I'm feeling alot better, but keeping my fingers crossed. Oh well, I'll take what I can get - a few good days now is better than the constant misery of before.
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 19, 2002, at 15:12:24
In reply to Re: Another thing Barbara Cat, posted by Roo on September 19, 2002, at 14:21:03
You breasts are sore? That's a giveaway. Sure sounds like hormones to me, and progesterone seems higher in proportion to estradiol. Are you cycling normally? Are you currently on birth control pills??????? What's the G.I. stuff? Constipation or diarreah? You're not a hypochondriac at all, my dear. I went through a miserable constipation/diarrea thing for a few years. Either one is blow to your health. It truly sounds like you've got multiple health issues going on that are contributing to neurological insults. I truly know the frustration and desperation you must be going through. I know how utterly pissed off at life and yourself you must be feeling. But it's clear from what you've related that you - are - ill!!! Maybe things will resolve themselves, but in the meantime, get as knowlegeable as you can on the subjects that you intuitively feel you need to know. More and more avenues and paths and answers will become evident as you rebuild your health and energy.
> I don't know if this is hormonal or what's happening....
> but the last two weeks I feel like I'm pregnant or something
> (which is totally impossible)...I'm nauseous, nothing tastes right
> or good, certain smells or tastes make me want to puke, my breasts
> are sore. My G.I. track is totally screwed up and has been since
> zoloft messed it up a couple of months ago (I was only on it for a month
> and quit for G.I. reasons, but it's never been the same since...now I
> feel like I have IBS or something. I feel like I'm turning into a hypochondriac.
> And I don't know what's happening.
> Don't know if you would have any insight into that at all, but thought
> I'd give it a shot.
>
Posted by McPac on September 19, 2002, at 15:27:18
In reply to Re: Another thing Barbara Cat » Roo, posted by BarbaraCat on September 19, 2002, at 15:12:24
Jill, did you have any anxiety problems before starting your Remeron? I've heard many say that Remeron, well, 'sucks' for anxiety because it increases the norepinephrine (and/or) noradrenaline levels?
Has it affected anxiety for you, either good or bad? thanks!
Posted by johnj on September 19, 2002, at 15:30:11
In reply to OCD/Catholicism article, posted by Jill on September 18, 2002, at 21:43:40
I find the criticism of the Catholic church really sad. If it wasn't for some of the priests that I have known since a child I would probably have killed myself. The work they do is demanding. Try running a school, teaching night classes, then spending hours on the phone couseling. It is no wonder many priests snap under pressure(I am not referring to the sex abuse issues, those are unacceptable in any faith or society). You fail to see, or know, what the church has done. I for one, like to repeat those prayers on the nights I cannot sleep. Sometimes they are the only thing that comforts me, as does mass.
johnj
Posted by Roo on September 19, 2002, at 15:33:50
In reply to Re: Another thing Barbara Cat » Roo, posted by BarbaraCat on September 19, 2002, at 15:12:24
> You breasts are sore? That's a giveaway. Sure
sounds like hormones to me, and progesterone
seems higher in proportion to estradiol. Are
you cycling normally? Are you currently on
birth control pills???????No--I'm not on any medication whatsoever...maybe it's just
early PMS...I have no idea....I think my mood swings might
be after I ovulate? It's never a clear cut pattern though, so
it's hard to say for sure...
So you think it sounds like I may have too much progesterone?What's the G.I.
stuff? Constipation or diarreah?
Kind of a weird combination of both. Like I said, I've always
been fine in that area until Zoloft screwed me up and I haven't
gotten back to normal since then.
Either one is blow to your health. It truly
sounds like you've got multiple health issues
going on that are contributing to neurological
insults. I truly know the frustration and
desperation you must be going through.
I know how utterly pissed off at life and
yourself you must be feeling.
Oh yes, yes, yes, baby. That is it. I feel like tearing my
hair out I'm so angry. I was on antidepressant meds
for 8 years before I stopped recently....maybe my whole system
is just screwed up and doesn't know what to do with itself now.
Or maybe some of these physical symptoms are just symptoms of
depression. I just don't know. Not knowing really is frustrating.But it's clear from what you've related that
you - are - ill!!! Maybe things will resolve
themselves, but in the meantime, get as
knowlegeable as you can on the subjects
that you intuitively feel you need to know.
I have been. I'm on the internet all the time researching
this stuff. I'm obsessed. I probably need to think about
it a little less in fact. I feel ill. Something aint right.
But it's a relatively new thing and it's connected to going
off ad's and being on the wrong ad's, I think. Or misdiagnosed
depression that's actually a hormonal thing. Oh yeah, I had
an ovary removed at 15. All doctors say that this shouldn't
make any difference in my hormonal stuff...that the other one just
takes over. My ovaries tend to produce cysts, but I don't have
the symptoms of polycystic ovary disease (or the high testosterone
levels...my testosterone levels are a little low...I figure that's from
being on ssri's for so long).More and more avenues and paths and answers
will become evident as you rebuild your health
and energy.I just have to have faith...that the right thing will come
to me if I keep my eyes and ears open....even this thread
has helped to look at yet another level.
>
>
Posted by Roo on September 19, 2002, at 15:47:49
In reply to Re: Alternatives » Roo, posted by BarbaraCat on September 19, 2002, at 14:54:03
play a big part in it, but it leads back to where did they go out of whack in the first place. Alot of theories about toxins in our environment acting as neuro-modulators and hormonal disruptors. You asked about testing and that also is a very controversial subject. Hormones ebb and flow, especially in a menstruating woman, so blood work should be done at least twice during the month. What the tests measure is the serum, or blood levels of circulating hormones, however, they don't measure how and if the hormones are binding efficiently on a cellular level. Many substances are molecular mimickers of hormones and fit in the receptor site enough to block the real hormones from binding, but the fit isn't close enough to signal the cell's response. So you can have plenty of hormones circulating in the blood serum, whether estrogen, progestin, thyroid, androgens, insulin, glucagon, whatever, but if they're not able to effect a cellular response, it's like starving in the midst of plenty. The pituitary is the master gland in all this, so it's likely that
this is where it begins. That's good news,
but it doesn't help since there isn't a way
to 'fix' a dysfunctional pituitary that anyone
knows about at this time.
Damn Barbara Cat--you've become very knowledgable...you might
have found your true calling! Alternative medicine....ever thought
of helping others, (once you've helped yourself that is)....
been following a version of The Zone diet just
recently and it's been pretty amazing in how
better I feel. If you suspect you have a
condition linked to low blood sugar and the
resultant insulin spikes then a good nutritionally
oriented doctor or practitioner who REALLY
knows what they're doing is the first step
. Really, when you think of it, we have no
control over anything in our lives except
what we put into our bodies. Eating a high
carbo and sugar diet is the first place to
look and start finding ways to control it.
It's not easy cause it becomes like a drug.Not eating sugar helps....but it's still not enough...I've
eaten high protein low carb before and it does help...but
again, it's not enough. It doesn't totally solve the problem,
unfortunately. You are probably right, I've got multiple
things going on.
>
> You say you don't want to go back to ADs.
Perhaps as a stop gap until other systems get
under control?I'm thinking, unfortunately, that I might have to do that....
simply because I've been feeling rock bottom bad for 5 months
now and I can't take much more....Now, if I make that decision, I
have to work really hard not to feel like a "failure" and like
all this time (and money) spent on the alternative stuff wasn't in
vain, and that it will "Never" happen for me, I'll just have to be
on AD's "for the rest of my life", and all those dooming sorts of
thoughts. But I am heartbreakenly disappointed....I really am...to
think of going back to the AD's....scared too...sometimes I think they are
making me worse in the long run, and I hate to think of the toxicity...but
the altnerative (feeling in mental hell) just can't do that much longer...just can't.You asked how long it took.
It's been about 1 month since I started seeing
him and getting intense treatments.
I'm down to 7 mg of Remeron and have
reduced the other meds considerably.
I'm feeling alot better, but keeping my
fingers crossed. Oh well, I'll take what
I can get - a few good days now is better
than the constant misery of before.
That's great...what sort of intense treatments are you
getting? A month is a good amount of time....I remember
your posts from the old days and i rememeber how miserable
you were....I am glad you are getting relief....Thanks
for taking the time to write such thoughtful and knowledgable
posts to me--I really appreciate it.
Posted by Roo on September 19, 2002, at 15:49:52
In reply to Roo Re: Alternatives, posted by McPac on September 19, 2002, at 14:45:34
>
> >>>>>>>>Try to lay off the sugar Roo...it's a
definite "no-no".
> Don't feel bad about needing the meds Roo
....I know that I have to have them.
I may, possibly, be going to the Pfeiffer
Treatment Center...will report back if I
do decide to go there.
Thanks.......I'm going to try not to beat myself up if
I go back on (and I probably will...I'm just too miserable)...
but it's disappointing after all the time, energy, money and hope
put into the acupuncture, etc.
>
Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2002, at 16:20:14
In reply to Re: Alternatives, posted by Roo on September 19, 2002, at 15:47:49
>
> Not eating sugar helps....but it's still not enough...I've
> eaten high protein low carb before and it does help...but
> again, it's not enough. It doesn't totally solve the problem,
> unfortunately.Please excuse my interruption, but are you saying that low carb diets help with mood disorders? My few ventures with them have left me so angry and unpleasant that my husband has forbidden me to ever go on one again. I'm not a particularly angry person, but on high protein, low carb diets I spit nails at anyone who even looks at me. It's like some demon takes over, a huge reaction. Not just irritability. Is it because I didn't stick with it long enough?
Dinah
Posted by Jill on September 19, 2002, at 16:21:30
In reply to Re: OCD/Catholicism article » Jill, posted by johnj on September 19, 2002, at 15:30:11
John,
I am so sorry if I offended you. I have a very close priest friend and my father was originally going to be a priest (was in the seminar before meeting my mom). I was actually approached by the nun at our church to consider becoming a nun when I was younger. I know many people find great comfort in the church.
For me, with my OCD, mass actually became quite difficult. I confided in my priest friend about it, and he was very supportive and understanding. He's talked to many people with OCD. There is a great deal of guilt for the thoughts you have when you have OCD--mine were very anti-God...which really disturbed me because that's not how I really feel. With OCD, you tend to obsess on fleeting thoughts that others would dismiss...and you obsess on thoughts that are disturbing to you (like harming someone you love, hating God), when that's really not YOU. It's maybe hard to understand.
Going to church actually increased my negative thoughts...which was really painful...and the more I tried to stop the negative thoughts, the more they were there. It was very heartbreaking for me.
I am glad that the Catholic church is a positive force in your life. I, too, appreciate that those in the clergy are under a great deal of stress. I work in a medical/counseling profession and know that having my fiance to comfort me when I'm under stress is a great help. I wish my priest friend had a partner he could turn to.
I'm sorry for offending. Please accept my apologies. I was only trying to use humor because humor has helped me deal with my OCD/religious obsessions. I really think that having a positive, happy communication with God and to be at peace is what I've wanted, and I've been able to have that more when my mind and heart are at rest and not obsessing. Prayer for me outside of the mass setting (retreats, meditation, yoga) and medically treating my depression/OCD has really helped me feel I connect with God and those around me more. But that's just me and not a judgement on any one else.
I know there is much good happening in the Catholic church (and other religions) and that those working in the church are so taxed. My friend has shared some of those feelings with me, and I don't know how he is able to do his job sometimes.
I am glad that the church is such a positive force in your life. Take care.
Jill
Posted by amy_oz on September 19, 2002, at 18:22:48
In reply to Re: Alternatives » Roo, posted by Dinah on September 19, 2002, at 16:20:14
Hi,
I have problems with reactive hypoglycemia too. I knew about it years before the depression/anxiety diagnosis. The best thing I've found (other than trying to follow a generally healthy diet) is to keep a ready supply of nuts, seed and dried fruits on hand. My favourites are walnuts, macadamias, almonds, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, dried apricots, apple, guava. This is after years of trying with many other meals and snacks (fresh fruit, muesli bars, biscuits, buns etc etc). The dried fruit and nuts are the only thing that stops the severe mood swings, shaking and spaciness that comes for me just a few hous after the last meal. The fruit and nuts generally have a low rating on the glycemic index.By the way reactive hyplgycemia is apparently due not to severly low blood sugar but having a sensitive adrenal system. The 'fight or flight' syndrome over reacting and kicking in when blood sugar hasn't really reached a dangerous level. From here theres obvious links to anxiety, depression etc etc.
I hope this helps,
Amy
Posted by johnj on September 19, 2002, at 19:08:07
In reply to Re: OCD/Catholicism article, posted by Jill on September 19, 2002, at 16:21:30
Jill,
I learned something I did not know about OCD today, thank you. I suffer from depression and at times very very severe anxiety. I do think that if the church cannot get you with love they try with guilt. I am glad you have found the comfort and meds you need. take care
johnj
Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2002, at 20:32:16
In reply to Re: Alternatives, posted by amy_oz on September 19, 2002, at 18:22:48
>
> By the way reactive hyplgycemia is apparently due not to severly low blood sugar but having a sensitive adrenal system. The 'fight or flight' syndrome over reacting and kicking in when blood sugar hasn't really reached a dangerous level. From here theres obvious links to anxiety, depression etc etc.
>
> I hope this helps,
> AmyWow. That is fascinating. It's something I really hadn't thought of before, but now that I do think of it, it makes a lot of sense. I have a habit of skipping meals, and I might be causing some of my own mood problems. It all fits, really. That was very helpful to me, and I'll try to start eating even when I'm not hungry to see if it makes a difference.
Thanks,
Dinah
Posted by Jill on September 19, 2002, at 23:06:42
In reply to Re: OCD/Catholicism article » Jill, posted by johnj on September 19, 2002, at 19:08:07
John,
Thanks for writing back. I was feeling badly I'd made you feel bad. I feel so much better now. Now I can sleep :).
God bless you, and my sincere best wishes. I, too, received counseling from my priest friend, Daniel, at one of my lowest points, and it really helped. He was the only one that was able to comfort me at the time...especially since my obsessions had mostly to do with God and religion. I'm really happy I talked with him because I was feeling so awful all the time about my weird thoughts...trying to suppress them because they'd freak me out. Of course, with OCD, the more you suppress thoughts, the more prevalent those thoughts become. I thought I was totally terrible, evil, and nutso. Another counselor and a psychiatrist also helped me to understand what OCD is (it's not just people washing their hands all the time), which also made me feel less guilty and wacky. OCD is insidious since you always seem to obsess on the thing that's most terrible to you. For me that was obsessing about being against God and hurting people I really love. (Luckily I have only a mild-moderate case. I met a man once who lived in fear that he'd poison his wife. It was very sad and debilitating for him.)
I'm so glad you've found comfort too. It really helped me when my friend Daniel reassured me about my OCD that "It's not personal...it's plumbing"...meaning that I should not feel guilty for the OCD thoughts. He said he knew grandmothers with OCD that wouldn't hold their grandchildren because they lived in fear that they'd harm them.
He said that he (and everyone) has crazy thoughts. He said, though, that people with OCD can't let them go...unlike people without OCD. He said that he's had fleeting thoughts like "Oh, this little kid is sitting on my lap...I could choke her." But then, he realizes that's just a weird thought and it goes away. He knows it doesn't mean he wants to do it.
For me (and others with OCD), when I have those thoughts, I have to repeat "good" thoughts over and over to kind of "erase" the bad thought. Like a personal ritual to neutralize the thought. I know it sounds weird, but that's what it's like...or having to count in a pattern or kiss my fiance 3 times...although he doesn't seem to mind that ;). However, luckily, with medication, it's much easier for me to brush those weird thoughts aside. My finance and I even talk about OCD moments (he doesn't have OCD, but does have weird thoughts at times and then tells me about them and I feel better).
My friend Daniel said that God was sad that I felt so much pain and wanted me to feel comforted and loved. That really helped me.
Be well, and thank you for writing back. I hope you have a restful and happy weekend.
Jill
Posted by LyndaK on September 19, 2002, at 23:14:18
In reply to Jill, re: Remeron Anxiety, posted by McPac on September 19, 2002, at 15:27:18
> Jill, did you have any anxiety problems before starting your Remeron? I've heard many say that Remeron, well, 'sucks' for anxiety because it increases the norepinephrine (and/or) noradrenaline levels?
> Has it affected anxiety for you, either good or bad? thanks!I know your question is directed to Jill, but since Remeron is the only drug I'm taking right now and anxiety is one of the things it has been MOST helpful with, I had to respond. Remeron has helped me so much with the anxiety that I now know how really debilitating my anxiety was. I recently increased my dose to 60 mg. because the 45 mg. I was on was starting to "poop out". One way I knew it was starting to poop out was that my anxiety began to increase again. With the increase in dose my anxiety has once again quieted. But I realize that not everyone responds the same way to the same drug. It has been a tremendous help to me.
Take Care,
Lynda
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 20, 2002, at 0:37:15
In reply to Re: Jill, re: Remeron Anxiety » McPac, posted by LyndaK on September 19, 2002, at 23:14:18
I'm having an interesting time with reducing Remeron. I was up at 75mg and am now at 10mg. I've been sleeping alot and feeling very little anxiety, which is just fine with me. This is a big change from the speedyness at high levels. I knew about the changes in effect Rem goes through with dosage levels and I'm living it. For the first few weeks I was having the typical crummy symptoms from reducing an AD, but am no longer bothered by them at all. I'll be staying at this level until I feel the need to change.
I'm also going through an intense naturopathic treatment and am sure it's contributing to the overall effect. One thing is sure, I would rather go through the slow groggy dull form of depression any day than the godawful anxiety brand.
Posted by LyndaK on September 20, 2002, at 1:06:16
In reply to Re: Remeron Anxiety » LyndaK, posted by BarbaraCat on September 20, 2002, at 0:37:15
> I'm having an interesting time with reducing Remeron. I was up at 75mg and am now at 10mg. I've been sleeping alot and feeling very little anxiety, which is just fine with me. This is a big change from the speedyness at high levels. I knew about the changes in effect Rem goes through with dosage levels and I'm living it. For the first few weeks I was having the typical crummy symptoms from reducing an AD, but am no longer bothered by them at all. I'll be staying at this level until I feel the need to change.
>
> I'm also going through an intense naturopathic treatment and am sure it's contributing to the overall effect. One thing is sure, I would rather go through the slow groggy dull form of depression any day than the godawful anxiety brand.
I hope Remeron doesn't go "speedy" on me! I'm much more functional when I'm calm. Jill had mentioned in a previous post about needing to cut her dose down periodically. I wasn't sure which way it was going for me so I tried upping the dose first -- that seemed to be the right thing since I started sleeping better again and I was calmer again. But more than one person has talked about the opposite effect with this drug. I'm crossing my fingers that this drug doesn't go bad on me because its been really good so far. It's not the cure for my depression but it certainly keeps me functional until I can gain a better understanding of the social issues plaguing me.I've been following your posts about the naturopath thing. I liked your statement about being a "healthy and physically fit mentally ill person" (or something like that). Certainly good health can ONLY benefit you -- there are no adverse side effects.
Best wishes to you in your search for health and wholeness.
Lynda
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