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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Arthur Gibson on August 28, 2002, at 6:29:02
You people really are the greatest!
I am new to the board, but I am highly impressed with the supportive way you all go on. We are cursed with some bad illnesses and the help that the contributors give must be invaluable.
I have already learned a lot. Thanks everyone.
I have been taking PROZAC for 9 weeks because of depression and serious suicidal thoughts and plans. This is crazy because I have a beautiful young wife, two lovely children, own my own house and business and I have money in the bank. I am the last person who should kill himself, but that just shows how stupid this depression illness is.
The PROZAC has worked well and I thought that I was recovered. I am on 20mg/day. The thoughts of suicide had gone.
However the past three days they have been coming back and today they are strong. My Doctor is on his summer holiday so I cannot ask his advice.
Should I increase to 40mg/day, or perhaps 40mg every second day? Or does PROZAC not work that way? Does it take ages for the increased dose to take effect?
Or should I keep to 20mg and hope that these horrid suicidal thoughts pass?
Should I take valium?
Does anyone know why a perfectly happy person like me should plan to throw himself under a train? I sit by the track working out the most painless way to do it, then I go back to a great meal cooked by my wonderful wife and play with my two super children in my lovely house.
Its completely idiotic, but it happens. I keep a suicide note in my wallet, which is packed full of money!
It has to be some dysfunction in my brain, but to me its very real and very frightening. To my wife its horrific to think that she might loose me so needlessly. She hides my car keys every night and locks away all medicine. She is the greatest wife anyone could ever have.
Two months ago I nearly slashed my wrist with a kitchen knife at 4.00AM in the morning. My four year old woke up at that moment and wanted a pee. After I had dealt with him I came to my senses and put the knife away. There must have been an angel or something watching over me at that time.
Any advice would be appreciated. If I can help anyone else out there, I will be pleased to do so. I repeat - you people are the greatest!
Posted by Bill L on August 28, 2002, at 9:42:39
In reply to Varying the dose with PROZAC, posted by Arthur Gibson on August 28, 2002, at 6:29:02
I think that you should immediately increase your dose of Prozac to 40mg every day. I'm almost positive that that is what your doctor would recommend.
Does your doctor have another doctor covering for him while he is on holiday?
If you increase to 40mg, will you be able to refill your prescription and have enough pills to last until your doctor returns?
Can you go to a different doctor or to the hospital emergency room near you to seek advise?
Posted by joy on August 28, 2002, at 10:01:18
In reply to Varying the dose with PROZAC, posted by Arthur Gibson on August 28, 2002, at 6:29:02
I agree with Bill L. I was on 20 mgs of Prozac and went to 40 mgs on my own. When I finally saw my pdoc and told him, he was fine with it. You may also need an augment like Buspar or an intermittent benzo; you will need time on Prozac to see if that is necessary. Ask your prescribing doc. Good luck.
Joy
Posted by Arthur Gibson on August 28, 2002, at 12:45:34
In reply to Re: Varying the dose with PROZAC, posted by Bill L on August 28, 2002, at 9:42:39
Thanks Bill and Joy and anyone else who answers.
I shall take an extra 20mg tonight, I take 20mg in the morning usually, so an extra dose in the evening will give me 40mg daily. My doctor returns next week and I do have enough medication to last. In any case they do have a locum doctor covering for him if things get worse.
My depression has not returned full scale, that was a terrible experience. However I have been under extra stress for a few days and that may have pushed me back a few steps.
Suicidal thinking was the main symptom of my previous depression. It was as if someone were pressing on part of my brain which controlled the suicidal intent. It took all my strength to fight against it each day until the PROZAC took hold after six weeks and the thoughts vanished. It was not the PROZAC that caused the problem. The problem was there before I took PROZAC. That is why I took PROZAC.
I found that talking about it to friends and family was the best defence. It somehow lessens the intensity of the force that drives you to kill yourself. It brings you back to reality and makes you realise what a stupid idea it is.
I also find that taking antacids also weakens the suicidal thinking. I have no idea why that works for me.
I am disappointed that the suicidal thinking has returned. I would love to know the chemistry that can drive a person who has everything going for them to want to end it all. Or maybe it is psychology.
If anyone has links to research on this subject I would be keen to read up on the subject.
Posted by janejj on August 28, 2002, at 22:50:06
In reply to Re: Varying the dose with PROZAC, posted by Arthur Gibson on August 28, 2002, at 12:45:34
Hi,
I don't think you should increase to 40mg so quickly, perhaps you should increase to 30mg first.
Take 40mg every other day as you suggested!
Good luck
Janejj
Posted by hiba on August 29, 2002, at 4:13:41
In reply to Re: Varying the dose with PROZAC, posted by Arthur Gibson on August 28, 2002, at 12:45:34
Dear Arthur,
You have been blessed with enough advises so far, but if you have serious suicidal thoughts, please rush to the doctor. If your pdoc is not available now, try to see another one. Don't bargain with your life and babble with this forum. This forum is only intended for information purposes . An individual patient always should be consulted with his doctor. Suicidal tendencies should not be taken lightly, and upping your dose arbitrarily is definitely not a good idea. Don't forget that a serotonin syndrom is possible and that can increase the suicidal tendencies.
It is a struggle of existence dear Arthur, So there is nothing to be ashamed of seeing another doctor and seeking treatment.
I am sure these tendencies will go away once you are stabilized on a psychotropic. If prozac loses its effectiveness within a short period of time, I don't think it is an ideal make for you. Don't hesitate to discuss with the options with your doc.Please!!
HIBA
Posted by Thrud on August 30, 2002, at 2:40:56
In reply to Varying the dose with PROZAC, posted by Arthur Gibson on August 28, 2002, at 6:29:02
Arthur,
I fully agree with Hiba. If you are having suicidal thoughts, whether you are depressed or not, you should seek immediate help.
You may be enjoying some aspects of prozac but it takes a couple of weeks to kick in: only a few moments to slash your wrists...
I suspect that prozac (alone at least) is not sufficient for you. I am not a doctor but being on a treatmant that leaves you with suidical thoughts does not seem like a satisfactory treatment to me.
Do as Hiba says and see a doctor immediately. At least you can me monitored while they develop a more acceptable treatment.
Thrud
Posted by Arthur Gibson on August 30, 2002, at 4:04:30
In reply to Re: Varying the dose with PROZAC » Arthur Gibson, posted by Thrud on August 30, 2002, at 2:40:56
Thank you to everyone who replied to my "Varying the dose with PROZAC" post, which was largely about my suicidal thinking.
Everyone strongly recommended that I see another doctor immediately.
Unfortunately you do not realise how terrible the British NHS system and treatment regime is and how mean they are with expensive drugs.
I first went to my family doctors several months ago complaining about depression and serious suicidal plans and thinking. The doctor prescribed five Zopiclone (which I later found out were sleeping tablets!) and told me to take one every night until I recovered!!
Obviously this did not work and I got worse. I returned and the next doctor (you rarely see the same doctor twice over here) gave me a month's supply of valium. The patient's information leaflet said not to take valium alone for depression, but nevertheless I persevered and got even worse.
Finally my wife came to the doctors with me and told them that she had pulled me off the railway track herself and would they please give me some sensible treatment.
Only at that point did they give me seven YES SEVEN! PROZAC tablets!!
I returned a week later and told them that I was no better and they prescribed a further 28 PROZAC.
They gave me a suicide help line to call if I felt bad and another telephone number to call if I was actually on the track and they would "come out and pick me up".
A few days later I called the suicide line and they told me to stop being anxious and call my family doctor in the morning!!
I called the second suicide line and it was a "wrong number"!!
I pleaded with my family doctor to be refered to a psychiatrist, but he told me that this was not possible because they were all on holiday for six weeks in our area.
Do you get the picture of what its like over here in the UK?
The bottom line is that I did not increase my dose above 20mg/day, despite your advice and I have not seen a doctor, because only the idiots are available to be seen right now and the "good" two doctors are on holiday until next week. However the "good" ones would make you weep, the way they go on. The idiots would probably give me cough mixture.
Thankfully my suicidal thoughts are receeding and I cannot face the thought that if I killed myself I could never read the brilliant stuff that you people write on this board again, so I shall just have to keep on living!!
Thanks everyone for your support.
Arthur Gibson
(Its a "made up" name but not to worry)
Posted by denise528 on August 30, 2002, at 7:13:21
In reply to NHS maddness, posted by Arthur Gibson on August 30, 2002, at 4:04:30
Arthur,
I have every sympathy with you. Although I have actually managed to see 3 psychiatrists on the NHS they all seemed equally hopeless, couldn't answer any of my questions about the drugs, I told one of them that I had completely lost my appetite on one of the drugs and he said he had never heard of this side effect and yet it was actually mentioned as one on the prescription literature. I tried to get through to one of them when I was feeling particularly suicidal and she just told me that he was busy. I COULDN'T believe it.
The three ones I have seen on the NHS sit there poe faced, go through there standard checklist, seemed totally disinterested and follow the usual old guidelines.
I finally got see one privately and although he is passionate about what he does and encouraging he won't seem to accept that I'm not getting any better on the ADs so I feel like I'm going round and round in circles. It's so frustrating, with this illness you feel at the mercy of the doctors and psychiatrists, sometimes I simply don't feel as though I have the strength to assert myself and sometimes I think I'm just a neurotic mess who doestn't deserve help because she can't help herself.
Wishing you all the best and I hope you finally get the treatment you need.
Denise
Posted by hiba on August 30, 2002, at 23:51:47
In reply to NHS maddness, posted by Arthur Gibson on August 30, 2002, at 4:04:30
Dear Arthur,
It makes me relieved, your suicidal tendencies are on the way of vanishing. I can understand it because I have gone through that period. If you are still on prozac, may be prozac is begining to kick in. Anyway stick with it until your doc comes back.
It is amazing to me, health care systems of a developed nation like UK is so hopeless. I am an Indian now staying in Middle East. There is no health insurance system in India but you can buy twenty capsules of prozac for one sterling pound. If you want to change your doc you can do it within minutes and see another doc. If you want to get admitted in a private psychiatric hospital, it is only a matter of your consent. Once when I revealed my suicidal tendencies to a psychiatrist, he begged to me to get admitted in his or any other hospital in the city. When I refused to get admitted he gave me two options. Take huge doses of xanax or go for an ECT. The first one was fair and I took 5 mg of xanax daily for the next couple of weeks to allow elavil to kick in. After two weeks xanax gradually withdrawn and am kept on elavil. Xanax helped me tremendously at that time. (Taking huge doses will have its own problems) But when it is a matter of life or death, the great Indian psychiatrists never hesitate or compromise. I am proud of my nation's health care system, though there can be enough drawbacks. Patients have their choice here. I never felt hopeless or helpless even when I was under major depression.I don't understand why the developed countries impose such restrictions on patients.
HIBA
Posted by rainbowlight on September 1, 2002, at 19:08:16
In reply to NHS maddness, posted by Arthur Gibson on August 30, 2002, at 4:04:30
I am sorry you are feeling so horrible. Boy, your health care system does sound bad. I just wanted to let you know that I have felt exactly like you do, I too have the perfect family, new house, money, etc. It doesn't keep the depression away though does it? Please try to hold on until you can get help. You will feel better, I know it probably doesn't look that way now but you will. Hold on for your kids, for your wife, she needs you and they need you. Stay away from the train tracks, lock up all the knives. Keep fighting for help. Trust me, I have been doing the same up and down battle for almost 16 years now and I have found that you have to really keep pushing the doctors until they get you help. Hang around here, read all the posts you can, you will learn so much about getting the right treatment and meds. This board has been so great for me and the people are wonderful, as you have said. I hope you are feeling better soon, and keep us updated as to how you are doing. Take care.
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