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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Hiba on August 13, 2002, at 0:07:19
Hello Dears,
I am A chronic depressive patient, have been subjected many kind of antidepressant experiments. To overcome the depression that started 12 years ago, I have gone through several kind of antidepressants. First it was amitryptiline, then came dothiepin,maprotiline, mianserine, sertraline, fluvoxamine, flupenthixol, motival(a combination of nortryptiline and fluphenazine), imipramine and at last fluoxetine. All these medicines have helped me to overcome depression but not without paying huge prices for it. I have been on amitryptiline for almost six months and it made my mouth dried like a sand, so did dothiepin and imipramine. Flupenthixol precipitated my obsessive worries although it was good in activating. Sertraline and fluvoxamine made me agitated while mianserine was not too good to alleviate depressive symptoms. Now I am on fluoxetine for the past couple of years and the real story now begins.
Though I was severely depressed, my sexual self was not seriously affected by this deadly affective disorder. At least it was there intact.After I started taking fluoxetine, I don't know where my sexual desire has mysteriously disappeared. No more sexual fantasies, no excitement even if I see a naked woman standing in front of me. Otherwise fluoxetine helped me a lot to overcome depression and obsessive worries. But a sense of well being without sexual desire!! Does anyone think it worths? I told my psychiatrist and he suggested to reduce the dosage which didn't help. I decided to wean off the medicine and stayed off it for almost five months. But alarmingly my sexual self remained the same. Not like the older tricyclics which reduced my libido while I was on them but got it back soon after I got off them. Depression began to annoy me again and I had to go back to fluoxetine which I am still on. I have tried gingko biloba for a while, buspirone, tentex forte(an Indian herbal preparation for increasing libido), periactin. Nothing works. The impact fluoxetine made on my desire phase is so deep and strong. And what makes me more worried is the thought that I am not going to regain my old sexual self, even if I manage to get off this stuff forever. Is the damage irreversible ?
Is there any psychiatrists or mental health professionals to answer my question, who hail SSRIs as safe and less toxic than older tricyclics ? As less addictive and habit forming ? So far fluoxetine has made me dependent on it, because I don't think I can come off it because of a return of depressive symptoms. Is it not the same with benzodiazepines also ? You are using Benzos to overcome anxiety and when you withdraw them your anxiety returns. Then the benzo drug is blamed as addictive, but why not an AD is not being called addictive? When I stopped my first AD amitryptiline I was nauseated and lightheaded for almost two months and depressive symptoms came back after that. I have used a benzodiazepine called rivotril(klonopin in US)which effectively controlled my anxiety and obsessive worries thus preventing depression. But my doctor was concerned of addiction(?) and withdraw it although it was tremendously helping me. It did not do any damage to my sexuality like fluoxetine did. Still fluoxetine and other ADs are haild as safe and effective by professionals. PHENOMINAL!!
I am waiting to get attacked by AD lovers and benzophobics
HIBA
Posted by utopizen on August 13, 2002, at 0:53:13
In reply to PROZAC DESTROYS DESIRE PHASE, posted by Hiba on August 13, 2002, at 0:07:19
Relax,
it's all in your head. : )
Posted by Mr. Scott on August 13, 2002, at 1:27:41
In reply to PROZAC DESTROYS DESIRE PHASE, posted by Hiba on August 13, 2002, at 0:07:19
To each his own I guess... When I was on Prozac I was having sex so much that one of my girlfriends couldn't handle it, others I think just kept quiet. I also bought a gun, and started doing $1000 a week of Cocaine...but those are other stories..
Anyways my point is somewhere along the lines of find a doctor who will give you Klonopin/Rivotril and taper off the Prozac. Trust yourself on this one. Worst case scenario is you'll have normal sex and be dependent on some stuff thats apparently easier to get off of then Effexor and Paxil which aren't supposed to be addictive.
At the very minimum consult with other docs and explain your situation. You'll work it out eventually.
Scott
Posted by Hiba on August 13, 2002, at 1:47:07
In reply to Re: PROZAC DESTROYS DESIRE PHASE, posted by utopizen on August 13, 2002, at 0:53:13
Dear Utopizen,
No... not again...! I know what is in my head and what is in my blood. Please read my message once again and you can distinguish it. I didn't complain of any physical discomforts because of prozac. I am getting an erection prior to intercourse. But sexual activity in the absense of sexual desire is nothing but a mechanical nonsense. Did you get it?
It should be in your head, dear Utopizen. Physical discomforts, we can fix it or simply bear it. But when something goes wrong in our head, it is very very hard to fix and adjust.
HIBA
Posted by Hiba on August 13, 2002, at 2:48:29
In reply to Re: PROZAC DESTROYS DESIRE PHASE » Hiba, posted by Mr. Scott on August 13, 2002, at 1:27:41
Thank you Mr. Scott,
Your answer seems more realistic. The difference between benzo withdrawal and antidepressant withdrawal is:One is physical while the other is psychological. The more of benzo withdrawal symptoms are of a physical nature. I can bear any physical discomfort. I am ready to go for a major surgery even without local anaesthesia. But don't tell me to go through another episode of depression. Or don't tell me to suffer another feeling of not being myself. After stopping my first antidepressant I lost MYSELF. But after stopping rivotril I didn't lose anything but simply experienced a dysphoria and some anxiety bouts. For me not being myself is the worst feeling and not having an active sexual self is truly devastating. Sex is the ultimate enjoyment of one's life. If you are deprieved of it, what is left there?
Psychiatrists should understand this matter. Antidepressant withdrawal is purely psychological which is hard to bear and make one self deceiving. While benzo withdrawal is physiological which can be managed and corrected. For me the first one is the worst one.
HIBA
Posted by Roo on August 13, 2002, at 9:21:08
In reply to Re: PROZAC DESTROYS DESIRE PHASE, posted by Hiba on August 13, 2002, at 2:48:29
Hiba--I hear you, totally. I feel the same way. It
scares me to think you have not regained your sexual self
even after stopping the drug. I've been on prozac and had
the same thing happen, but when I quit the drug, my sexual
self comes back...I had a friend who had a situation similar to
yours, but she was on Paxil...it took awhile for her sexual functioning
to be restored to normal...like it slowly came back over a year's
period...so there's still hope, even as awful as a year sounds, it's
better than never.
I struggle with the "is it worth it?" question a lot myself. My sexual
self is a big part of who I am, and even a spiritual part of me...so to
lose it is like chopping out a piece of my soul...but then depression renders
me a pretty hollow soul too, and a lot of times I'm not even fit to be in
a relationship if I'm depression--so who am I going to be having sex with
anyway? I don't know. It's a real painful issue. I'm surprised more people
aren't upset about it. Maybe they've just given up, resigned to it.
Posted by katekite on August 13, 2002, at 12:01:16
In reply to Re: PROZAC DESTROYS DESIRE PHASE, posted by Roo on August 13, 2002, at 9:21:08
Check testosterone and DHEAs. Normal aging may have slipped up while you were on drugs.
Consider moclobemide instead. Expect Prozac induced sex problems to take more than a few months.
Kate
Posted by Hiba on August 14, 2002, at 0:00:32
In reply to Re: PROZAC DESTROYS DESIRE PHASE, posted by katekite on August 13, 2002, at 12:01:16
Dear Katekite,
Thank you for your input. But I am not an aged person. I am on early 30s and it is definitely not a normal aging response.
Anyway I am diagnosed as a chronic depressive who should take ADs for the entire life. I can't come off fluoxetine without another substitution.I have heard that wellbutrin is an option. I have also heard of its libido increasing powers. Any comments?
HIBA
Posted by sleepy lizard on August 14, 2002, at 6:28:16
In reply to Re: PROZAC DESTROYS DESIRE PHASE, posted by Hiba on August 14, 2002, at 0:00:32
I'm taking Effexor XR 150 mg and Wellbutrin SR 100 mg simultaneously (once daily each). The Wellbutrin SR is an attempt to reverse the sexual side effects of the Effexor SR (delayed ejaculation and anorgasmia). At two weeks it has not helped yet, but still may. The serotonin is the cause of the loss of libido an anorgasmia. Wellbutrin increases norepinephrine and dopamine and the alpha-2 norepinephrine receptor site in the brain will increase libido. So use of Wellbutrin may increase your libido. These drugs are so complicated, their effects change with the dosing and the individual and how long you are on them. The Wellbutrin does increase you energy, and may make you a little anxious or make it harder to sleep. I hope this helps some.
Posted by Thrud on August 17, 2002, at 5:30:37
In reply to PROZAC DESTROYS DESIRE PHASE, posted by Hiba on August 13, 2002, at 0:07:19
Hi Hiba.
I have faced EXACTLY the same problem as you for about 12 years. I also share your deep feelings of loss with sexual problems.
In 12 years of much experimentation I have not found an antidepressant that is sexual side-effect free, although some are definitely better than others. I am just starting the French AD Stablon (tianeptine) but I am not expecting miracles.
If you can use a benzo by itself, this will probably be much better than an AD. My favorite is Xanax because it also has some antidepressant qualities. When I first started Xanax, I felt drowsy, dumb and sexually dysfunctional - pretty similar to antidpressants. The BIG difference was that, over a period of months, all these problems subsided; with ADs they came and STAYED. Unfortunately I cannot use Xanax alone because it does not help enough with depression.
I have been so upset with the loss of libido I have been toying with the idea of ECT for quite some time now. I become a coward everytime I read of the memory problems associated with it, but to be honest nearly every AD affected my memory and made me feel dumb too. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad option after all?
Anyway, I'm sorry I can't offer you any solutions because I'm in the same situation. But if I come across one I'll post it.
Thrud
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