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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by hildi on August 8, 2002, at 14:31:56
In reply to do tell hildi, what was it and why returned? (nm), posted by katekite on August 7, 2002, at 19:55:43
I, too, was desperate and bought a bottle of that serenity online, that stuff Gabi was talking about. I didn't like it at all. I thought it made me more irritable and sick feeling. Who knows- that just may have been a placebo effect, because I have been extremely irritible and uptight, anxiety ridden for weeks now.
I was hoping this would actually work, but of course it didn't.
Back to the drawing board. it sure would have been great to find something that works that I could buy myself without having to jump through hoops for my dr.
Hildi
PS: I hate my dr.!!!!
Posted by Gabbi on August 8, 2002, at 16:20:46
In reply to it was that Serenity KateKite!, posted by hildi on August 8, 2002, at 14:31:56
Thanks for your thoughts, I'm still surprised at how supportive everyone is.
I guess I'll forgo the serenity, and I've got a new cocktail from my Pdoc, I'm so fortunate I haven't been able to see him regularly, and my medication got so messed up, so now I can talk to him via e-mail I wish I could clone him. He doesn't get paid for this either.
I won't be able to tell if they work until I can wake up though...he told me they would be sedating the first few days, quite the understatement!Grateful Gabbi
Posted by jay on August 9, 2002, at 1:37:23
In reply to Thank-you , posted by Gabbi on August 8, 2002, at 16:20:46
Hey Gabbi:Just want to know the new cocktail, and if there is any reason he put you on what he did. Being a fellow Canuck...maybe we can trade experiences.:-)
Best wishes,
Jay
> Thanks for your thoughts, I'm still surprised at how supportive everyone is.
> I guess I'll forgo the serenity, and I've got a new cocktail from my Pdoc, I'm so fortunate I haven't been able to see him regularly, and my medication got so messed up, so now I can talk to him via e-mail I wish I could clone him. He doesn't get paid for this either.
> I won't be able to tell if they work until I can wake up though...he told me they would be sedating the first few days, quite the understatement!
>
> Grateful Gabbi
Posted by Gabbi on August 9, 2002, at 18:39:15
In reply to Gabbi...what is your new cocktail? » Gabbi, posted by jay on August 9, 2002, at 1:37:23
Wow Jay
I really needed that post of yours, just that feeling of connection eh? Seriously, I'm attempting to battle the Gov who wants me to repay my welfare benefits because somehow they decided I made 43000 dollars last year. My huge earnings were actually 7200, and now they are threatening to not give me my cheque this month ARRRGGHH That and a medication change too much.
Oh that was really social babble stuff, but your post really helped scrape me from the ceiling.Lets see, Doc says my Prozac probably stopped being effective, so I'm lowering my dose gradually while adding Effexor slowly, I got myself off Benzos with the aid of vit C. 3wks ago never been able to stop them before, so now I've got trazedone 50mgs for the anxiety, which might be stopped if the effexor works for that also I'm still prescribed cytomel and dexedrine I think thats everything.
My official title is Miss Major progressive unipolor refractory depression w/comorbid anxiety, its been eight years with a few blessed remissions. Whats your Title?Many Thanks from a grateful Gabbi.
Posted by hildi on August 9, 2002, at 22:30:37
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail?, posted by Gabbi on August 9, 2002, at 18:39:15
Hey Gabbi- the Vit C really helped you get off benzos? How much vit C were you taking and how were you tapering the benzo? What were you taking, anyhow? Was it Klonopin? I forgot.
Hildi
Posted by Gabbi on August 9, 2002, at 23:19:14
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail? » Gabbi, posted by hildi on August 9, 2002, at 22:30:37
I was addicted to ativan 8mgs per day,appx 7years I'd never been able to even taper down too under 4mgs. The physical side effects of withdrawl were okay, but I simply couldn't stand The Exruciating anxiety and fear it caused, I could tell myself it was withdrawl but that wasn't enough my brain convinced me It was reality. I'd even been hospitalized and given phenobarbitol to ease the withdrawl and couldn't do it.
This time my living situation was worse than ever, had no job...everything was technically worse. I was given Klonopin 4x50mgs per day instead of Ativan and told it would ease the withdrawl. The klonopin made me so depressed I ended up Overdosing and in the psych ward.
While I was there I was told by a former heroin addict that he had no withdrawl symptoms when he quit "using" because he was told to take 7000mgs of Vit C in divided doses perday. The Dr. who told him this, said it works for almost anything.
It made little sense to me because I know that much C cleans out (delicately put) your system, so I was actually expecting worse withdrawl from having the drug leave my body so fast. I did it anyway, using the buffered kind oF C otherwise you can get a nasty stomach ache.
I did have 6 klonopin at home so I took 2 tablets the first day, and felt fine, so the next day I took 1/2 a tablet. By the third day, I didn't need any. And I was LOOKING for symptoms, practically trying to talk myself into being anxious.
The only side effect I had was insomnia for quite a long time that was nothing compared to the withdrawl hell I'd been through before. And now thats being easily treated with a non-benzo temporary prescription.I'm still in disbelief, but It had to have been the C everything else in my life was so much worse than any time I'd tried, I didn't even think it would work, but I was sure the Phenobarbitol would, so I'm sure that it has some actual physical effect, not a placebo,
So there you have it
7000mgs per day of buffered C powder.
I wouldn't recommend not gradually tapering off the benzos, but I was able to quit them almost over night.Sorry that was such a long answer but I wanted to be sure I got across just how unlikely it was that this time would be a success.
hope it helps
Gabbi
Posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 7:40:22
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail? » Gabbi, posted by hildi on August 9, 2002, at 22:30:37
After I had my "stroke/seizure/whatever"
from Klonopin, one of the many weird things
that happened was a tremendous craving for
citrus fruits and i hate citrus fruits normally.Not sure why that was so, but i seemed to need
Vitamin C.Squiggles
Posted by Gabbi on August 10, 2002, at 14:14:41
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail? » hildi, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 7:40:22
Its pretty incredible isn't it? I had a mentally challenged client once who had almost daily seizures, and she had a huge craving for anything fatty, yet she was really slim. We were worried about her heart. She would sneak spoonfuls of butter or mayonnaise out of the fridge, and would
go for days refusing to eat anything but greasy sausages sometimes 12 at one time. Coincidentally I saw a news program about seizures and it said that a high fat diet can be successful in lessening them when all else has failed because the cholesterol helps to form a protective sheath on the "nerves" (I can't remember the proper term) which cause the brain to seizure. Needless to say we stopped trying to discourage her fat eating and her seizures lessened substantially.... Too bad that body intuition has been trained out of most of us.Gabbi-
Posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 14:28:45
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail? » Squiggles, posted by Gabbi on August 10, 2002, at 14:14:41
It's called the *myelin sheath* and it covers
the nerve and protects it; its destruction
(and there are many causes, to my trepidation
i found nephrogenic diabetes insipidus, for
example) leads to many serious disorders such
as MS, and ther neurological diseases, besides
stroke and seizure.Squiggles
Posted by hildi on August 10, 2002, at 14:29:51
In reply to Re: Benzo Withdrawl » hildi, posted by Gabbi on August 9, 2002, at 23:19:14
No Gabbi-that wasn't too long at all, it was very informative. Thanks for the reply.
I still don't understand though- how much Klonopin were you on? It looks like you wrote 50mg four times a day??I am just thinking of starting benzos myself and am afraid. What is the non-benzo med you are using now for anxiety? Is it working?
Is the trazedone for anxiety? How about the phenobarbital- how does that fit into all this- were you given that while in the hospital or ?? (Sorry, I cannot remember what you may have said in previous posts about pheno).I am definately keeping this info on the vitamin
C (buffered!)for in case I ever do go through something bad with the benzos- if I do go on them.
That, to me , is pretty amazing info that a vitamin so common could be of so much help.
Good luck to you Gabbi and I am really glad you are feeling better.
Hildi
Posted by hildi on August 10, 2002, at 14:41:22
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail? » hildi, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 7:40:22
> After I had my "stroke/seizure/whatever"
> from Klonopin, one of the many weird things
> that happened was a tremendous craving for
> citrus fruits and i hate citrus fruits normally.
>
> Not sure why that was so, but i seemed to need
> Vitamin C.
>
> SquigglesVery interesting! Thanks for the reply Squiggles-
Hey, I have to ask you something. I have read some of your posts, and it sounds like you have been through hell and back. Would it appropriate to say a lot of what you went through was mainly because of the klonopin?
It sounds as though you are back on it again, but I thought I read a post of yours that mentioned your dr. weaning you off- you are maybe on something different?
A lot of what I'm asking is this: knowing what you know now, would you have still have gone on klonopin? Or would you have taken something different?
I don't know what it was prescribed for you for. For me, I'm debating klonopin use for major anxiety d/o, and the SSRI's I have been taking don't address the anxiety completely- my life is very limited because of this. Also, the SSRI's make me more nervious/tense in other ways and have, as you probably already know, a slew of other side effects.
Hildi
Posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 14:53:53
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail?, posted by hildi on August 10, 2002, at 14:41:22
Hildi,
Of Lithium, Xanax, Synthroid (a pretty
dangerous drug if you overdose), Klonopin
is the worst.It was not my choice to go on it - you are
not given a choice when you are given drugs -
it's not a restaurant with a menu. I think
I was given it for GAD or maybe because i was
dx'd bipolar - don;t know.Last time i saw my dr. he mumbled something
about maybe putting me on some new drugs - which
send cold, icy shivers through my veins.
I hope i am just left alone the way i am now,
because frankly i fear medical experimentation.Anyway, i hope drs. and pharms learn about
Klonopin withdrawal - it is beastly, and since
some medical professionals may take it themselves,
maybe there is hope.It is not a drug that you can get off of - i
believe it changes your brain at least after many
yrs. of taking it.Squiggles
Posted by Gabbi on August 10, 2002, at 15:05:21
In reply to Re: Benzo Withdrawl, posted by hildi on August 10, 2002, at 14:29:51
Yes I was taking 50mgs x4 and I don't think Benzo's are innately evil it depends what you are taking them for, and for how long. I think that they can be a life saver if prescribed for a short period while waiting for an A.D. to work. Some people do need to be on them for a long time. My p.doc said some people take 2 mgs of Ativan per day for long periods and have no problem, I was just taking them to cope with any crises and because they are short acting my mood swings were incredible. They also tend to exacerbate most depression over the long haul.
Klonopin I've heard is easier to withdraw from than Ativan, though like anything that is subject to debate. The trazedone was given to me for sleeplessness but it is also prescribed for others as an A.D which alleviates anxiety. I take a very small amount and its only temporary. Because for me actually increases my depression and therefore my anxiety if I take it the way it is normally prescribed.
My anxiety was originally part of my depression but taking the Ativan for much longer than it had been prescribed for and in too high an amount perpetuated it because of the constant rebound anxiety it caused. Then I would take more to eliminate the rebound anxiety and so it goes....
Now that I'm off of it, I don't have those excruciating anxiety attacks because My A.Ds have lifted the depression and therefore the co morbid anxiety.
Its a really tricky thing though, because for me stimulants are actually much better for my anxiety than "downers" I'm on dexedrine which I thought would send me through the roof, but it actually makes me feel relatively normal!!
I really think its a matter of luck in finding a Doctor who is an artist in diagnosing, and atypical drug responses.
Its all so confusing,
But if I can help at all, ask away, I've been through many many treatments for Unipolar Depression with G.A.D.
I am fortunate to have a genius Psychopharmacologist who was consistantly correct in his educated prescription combinations which were seen as unorthodox to most General practioners. He is willing to see me as a patient again even after years of my taking other Drs advice because they were just closer. He also doesn't mind a bit If I ask a question for someone else.
Posted by Gabbi on August 10, 2002, at 15:10:45
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail? » Gabbi, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 14:28:45
That information was really appreciated, Its a personal thing, I hate not having the accurate terms, I used to have a rain-man like ability to remember that kind of thing, but its leaving me...
Thanks Again
Gabbi
Posted by Gabbi on August 10, 2002, at 15:15:42
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail? » hildi, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 14:53:53
Another myth put to rest, I'd been told Klonopin was fairly easy to withdraw from. and I'd put that in my post to Hildi saying that it was of course a debatable theory, and your post showed up in the nick of time. Brilliant.
Posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 15:23:08
In reply to Re: Benzo Withdrawl Hildi, posted by Gabbi on August 10, 2002, at 15:05:21
50mg x 4 - can't be right - that would
kill a hoard of elephants; maybe 0.50 x 4Squiggles
Posted by hildi on August 10, 2002, at 15:27:19
In reply to Re: Benzo Withdrawl Hildi, posted by Gabbi on August 10, 2002, at 15:05:21
Hi. Your doctor sounds wonderful Gabbi- how lucky for you! And for us- you can actually ask him questions for us??! What a nice guy! I can't even ask questions about myself with my dr.! You have unipolar with GAD? Is GAD 'comorbid anxiety'?
I agree that it's strange the dexedrine doesn't send you through the roof. I thought stimulants were prescribed for ADD? If you don't have ADD then it shows, again, how you really don't know WHAT will work for someone!
It kind of reminds me of when I first started meds, my 1st AD being prozac. Now I have Major anxiety , maybe GAD- but I think worse.! My depresson is: I don't know, maybe unipolar, maybe something else. But anyway. . . prozac is supposed to be rather stimulating, right? For me, I was more focused and calm. Just the opposite of what I thought a stimulating AD would do to me. However, after a while on prozac I did have reactions. I wonder if I would have had these SE's if my dose had been lower? Hmmm.I was interested to learn more about the trazadone, but it sounds like it can be a depressant to some. With my similar reaction to a stimulating med, I wonder if the traz would have the same depressing effect on me.
Hildi
Posted by hildi on August 10, 2002, at 15:32:48
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail? » hildi, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 14:53:53
> Hildi,
>
> Of Lithium, Xanax, Synthroid (a pretty
> dangerous drug if you overdose), Klonopin
> is the worst.
>
> It was not my choice to go on it - you are
> not given a choice when you are given drugs -
> it's not a restaurant with a menu. I think
> I was given it for GAD or maybe because i was
> dx'd bipolar - don;t know.
>
> Last time i saw my dr. he mumbled something
> about maybe putting me on some new drugs - which
> send cold, icy shivers through my veins.
> I hope i am just left alone the way i am now,
> because frankly i fear medical experimentation.
>
> Anyway, i hope drs. and pharms learn about
> Klonopin withdrawal - it is beastly, and since
> some medical professionals may take it themselves,
> maybe there is hope.
>
> It is not a drug that you can get off of - i
> believe it changes your brain at least after many
> yrs. of taking it.
>
> SquigglesThanks Squiggles. Now I'm nervious. You were not taking it very long (only two years or less, right?)and look what you experienced!
Wow, I am thinking differently about this med now.
Hildi
Posted by hildi on August 10, 2002, at 15:35:02
In reply to Re: Benzo Withdrawl Hildi » Gabbi, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 15:23:08
> 50mg x 4 - can't be right - that would
> kill a hoard of elephants; maybe 0.50 x 4
>
> SquigglesYipes! Thats what I thought! Maybe Gabbi did mean .50, NOT 50!
Posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 15:41:12
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail? » Squiggles, posted by hildi on August 10, 2002, at 15:32:48
No - i was taking it VERY long - 17 years -
it may have been a different story if i
had taken 1 or 2 yrs.This thread must be driving people crazy;
Squiggles
Posted by hildi on August 10, 2002, at 16:20:23
In reply to Re: Benzo Withdrawl Hildi, posted by Gabbi on August 10, 2002, at 15:05:21
Hey Gabbi. Do You think it is the effexor or the dexedrine that is responsible for the depression and anxiety lift?
Hildi
Posted by Gabbi on August 10, 2002, at 17:25:09
In reply to Re: Benzo Withdrawl Hildi » Gabbi, posted by hildi on August 10, 2002, at 16:20:23
Its definately the dexedrine, I just started effexor, but I've been on the dexedrine for about 4 years. Its a small amount, but apparently it can lift/depression anxiety in some on its own, but you'd probably have to keep upping the dosage which would get ugly. In my case my Pdoc said it would also boost the effect of the medication without increasing the side effects.
I flipped at first thinking Amphetemines those are just bad. I learned that the amount prescribed for dieters where many of the horror stories came from, was 180 to 200 mgs and I'm only on 20mgs, never been tempted to increase it, and recently learned that I don't have to take them every day, there is no appreciable withdrawl, so now I take them only if I'm having a really bad day.
Posted by Gabbi on August 10, 2002, at 17:30:15
In reply to Re: Benzo Withdrawl Hildi, posted by Gabbi on August 10, 2002, at 17:25:09
Posted by Gabbi on August 10, 2002, at 17:35:00
In reply to HILDI !thanks squiggles that should be 0.5x4 klon. (nm), posted by Gabbi on August 10, 2002, at 17:30:15
I'm absolutely new to this board besides that stupid but dangerous error am I doing something I shouldn't be? Or is it that its kind of a convoluted thread..Of course maybe its not good to try and write about medication correctly while undergoing a medication change.
Posted by hildi on August 10, 2002, at 19:13:02
In reply to Re: Benzo Withdrawl Hildi, posted by Gabbi on August 10, 2002, at 17:25:09
Hi Gabbi. I sure have been learning alot of things lately on this board and learning much from you. I had no idea until recently that dexedrine was anything but a diet drug, and I also had wierd ideas about amphetamines. There are many other uses apparently other than to get high.
When I was younger and did speed I always got sick- sometimes threw-up, then got very tired and wanted to sleep. I never got a buzz from amphetamines. . . wonder what this means, if anything. I am just wondering about these types of meds because if you are unipolar and it benefits you then there are many more applications for this med . . .
The Dexedrine increases the effects of the effexor? I think effexor itself is a more stimulating AD. but I could be wrong. That might just have been my reaction. I got really wierded-out on it.
How did you like prozac? Did you start feeling bad on them after a while-is that why dr. thought they weren't working anymore? That's funny. My dr.'s reaction when I started to feel like crude when I was on prozac was to just UP the med. But thats his opinion on every med when there is a bad effect!
So you take the dexedrine in AM? If you took later would it affect your sleep at night?
And you mentioned you take it as needed? So, if you are real anxious or depressed some days you can take 20mg and feel it working a little bit later?
Hmmm. Interesting!
Thanks so much again, for all the info.
Hildi
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