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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cybercafe on August 9, 2002, at 8:16:07
... i started hanging out with guys who were taking steroids for weightlifting and they all were quite aggressive and moody.... bad tempers too...... so i said to myself... "hey... these guys are just like me"...
i'm wondering if it's possible to be born with too much testosterone and have effects on mood as a result
anyone know?
Posted by LLL on August 9, 2002, at 9:28:03
In reply to High testosterone , posted by cybercafe on August 9, 2002, at 8:16:07
Yes, levels of testosterone effect moods and level of agression as well as an overall sense of well being in both men and women. You'd have to have your level checked though to know if that's the case. There's much out there on the internet you could read.
Posted by velaguff on August 9, 2002, at 12:49:10
In reply to High testosterone , posted by cybercafe on August 9, 2002, at 8:16:07
I read, many years ago, that guys in prison tended to have higher than average testosterone levels. Just a couple years ago, I read about research that indicates that criminals tend to have high test levels COMBINED with low serotonin levels, the researchers suggested the lack of sociabilty (low serotonin) combined with the testosterone caused their excess aggression. Some doctors think testosteone therapy is good for middle aged and older guys, and that it improves mood. Amazon has several books on this subject. Probably such books are at your local library, too.
Posted by vince on August 9, 2002, at 21:26:42
In reply to High testosterone , posted by cybercafe on August 9, 2002, at 8:16:07
>
> ... i started hanging out with guys who were taking steroids for weightlifting and they all were quite aggressive and moody.... bad tempers too...
>
> ... so i said to myself... "hey... these guys are just like me"...
>
> i'm wondering if it's possible to be born with too much testosterone and have effects on mood as a result
>
> anyone know?
I've read that selegiline increases testosterone levels, so maybe parnate does too. You say that parnate increased your libido - maybe it is making you aggressive and irratible also. You can get your testosterone levels checked, but I'm not sure what you would do if they were too high.Vince
Posted by cybercafe on August 10, 2002, at 5:18:03
In reply to Re: High testosterone , posted by velaguff on August 9, 2002, at 12:49:10
> I read, many years ago, that guys in prison tended to have higher than average testosterone levels. Just a couple years ago, I read about research that indicates that criminals tend to have high test levels COMBINED with low serotonin levels, the researchers suggested the lack of sociabilty (low serotonin) combined with the testosterone caused their excess aggression. Some doctors think testosteone therapy is good for middle aged and older guys, and that it improves mood. Amazon has several books on this subject. Probably such books are at your local library, too.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH ANGER WHAT ARE YOU IMPLYING?!!?!??!?
Posted by cybercafe on August 10, 2002, at 5:20:32
In reply to Re: High testosterone , posted by vince on August 9, 2002, at 21:26:42
> I've read that selegiline increases testosterone levels, so maybe parnate does too. You say that parnate increased your libido - maybe it is making you aggressive and irratible also. You can get your testosterone levels checked, but I'm not sure what you would do if they were too high.
sorry i didn't expect anyone to actually have read my other posts as well :)
no i have always been aggressive, angry and irritable.... though you wouldn't notice the anger if you met me in person .. i guess people who take steroids don't have a lifetime of experience to learn to control themselves
Posted by katekite on August 11, 2002, at 11:24:28
In reply to Re: High testosterone , posted by cybercafe on August 10, 2002, at 5:20:32
I'm crossing the gender gap here, but how about maybe low estrogen? Men are supposed to have a little bit of estrogen and I think it must kind of balance the 'macho' effects of testosterone. No idea if this is ever done in practice. -- kate
Posted by cybercafe on August 11, 2002, at 23:52:12
In reply to Re: High testosterone , posted by katekite on August 11, 2002, at 11:24:28
> I'm crossing the gender gap here, but how about maybe low estrogen? Men are supposed to have a little bit of estrogen and I think it must kind of balance the 'macho' effects of testosterone. No idea if this is ever done in practice. -- kate
can you lend me some of yours??
Posted by bubblegumchewer on August 12, 2002, at 12:01:09
In reply to Re: High testosterone , posted by cybercafe on August 11, 2002, at 23:52:12
I wonder if the the bodybuilders are short-tempered for a different reason than you. From what I understand, the extra testosterone they get sets of a spiral of imbalanced hormones both male and female (we all have certain amounts of both, whether male or female) and they also get, um... shrunken organs from this imbalance. Perhaps increased estrogen goes along with increased testosterone and is responsible for the atrophy.
Anyway, here's one consideration: My doc says I have slightly insensitive ovaries; they work fine but require a few more days each cycle of being pelted with increasing hormones in order to fire (ovulate), giving me a longer cycle and a greater amount of various hormones which include testosterone. Amongst the beneficial effects of testosterone that I supposedly enjoy (I won't go into better libido but it's there) are "increased vitality and sense of well-being," the doc said.
??? I still don't know what that means.
But I thought that men are less prone to depression on average than women and one reason for this discrepancy is maybe that testosterone has a protective effect and estrogen has a depression-worsening effect. Witness the fact that birth control pills, which maybe not coincidentally tend to wipe out most of a woman's small but functionally important amount of testosterone, are also well-known to cause or worsen depression.
My point is that maybe the bodybuilders are getting the worst of both worlds: while testosterone is known for causing the typically greater aggressiveness that characterizes males, EXTRA testosterone may be worsening matters while estrogen is making them all cranky like a woman with PMS. These are all simplistic guesses, of course.
My other simplistic guess is that if you have a NORMAL amount of testosterone, which most men do, reducing the amount you have by some medicinal means might not help anything.
Just wanted to add some assorted factoids/ guess-oids to ponder.
Posted by cybercafe on August 12, 2002, at 14:59:40
In reply to thoughts on testosterone and estrogen:, posted by bubblegumchewer on August 12, 2002, at 12:01:09
> I wonder if the the bodybuilders are short-tempered for a different reason than you. From what I understand, the extra testosterone they get sets of a spiral of imbalanced hormones both male and female (we all have certain amounts of both, whether male or female) and they also get, um... shrunken organs from this imbalance. Perhaps increased estrogen goes along with increased testosterone and is responsible for the atrophy.
So you think it's a balance rather than a strict level-thing. Could be. I believe the shrunken organs and gynecomastia ("bitch tits") come from estrogen itself...
Studies seem to indicate that people naturally bad tempered seem to have high levels of testosterone, .. and testosterone also seems to have an antidepressant effect (though when levels get too high it creates problems socializing which can lead to environmental depressing factors)
>testosterone. Amongst the beneficial effects of testosterone that I supposedly enjoy (I won't go into better libido but it's there) are "increased vitality and sense of well-being," the doc said.Yeah testosterone is supposed to have an antidepressant effect .... I don't know what the mechanism is though
>has a protective effect and estrogen has a depression-worsening effect. Witness the fact that birth control pills, which maybe not coincidentally tend to wipe out most of a woman's small but functionally important amount of testosterone, are also well-known to cause or worsen depression.
hmmm... what makes you think estrogen worsens depression?
> My point is that maybe the bodybuilders are getting the worst of both worlds: while testosterone is known for causing the typically greater aggressiveness that characterizes males, EXTRA testosterone may be worsening matters while estrogen is making them all cranky like a woman with PMS. These are all simplistic guesses, of course.
... okay that really would suck :(
> My other simplistic guess is that if you have a NORMAL amount of testosterone, which most men do, reducing the amount you have by some medicinal means might not help anything.... yeah it would actually make things worse
> Just wanted to add some assorted factoids/ guess-oids to ponder.... i appreciate it... i certainly have the freetime :)
Posted by bubblegumchewer on August 12, 2002, at 19:16:21
In reply to Re: thoughts on testosterone and estrogen:, posted by cybercafe on August 12, 2002, at 14:59:40
I know that b.c. pills consist mainly of estrogen and they are linked to worsened depression in many users. Then again, they also contain progesterone... geez, I give up. I've never completely understood female hormones. Now that you mention it, progesterone is the dominant hormone in the 2nd half of the menstrual cycle which is also the time that PMS occurs. And b.c. pills artificially replicate that "just ovulated" state to keep the patient from ovulating, thus perpetually keeping her in a high progesterone state... Sorry - I've gotten far away from the original testosterone topic.
Posted by katekite on August 12, 2002, at 20:27:59
In reply to estrogen and depression, posted by bubblegumchewer on August 12, 2002, at 19:16:21
Actually in human females both progesterone and estrogen decline to very low levels before a period. The highest levels are at ovulation mid-cycle. Its true that progesterone is slightly higher but they both decline to really really low levels.
They find no difference in hormone levels between normal people and people with severe PMS. So they think instead it could be either that some are more sensitive to the decline or that in some the levels decline faster and it is actually the rapidity of change that causes the PMS.
No idea myself.
--kate
Posted by LLL on August 12, 2002, at 20:31:01
In reply to Re: estrogen and depression, posted by katekite on August 12, 2002, at 20:27:59
The book "Screaming to Be Heard" by Dr. Vliet, will clear up all the questions about hormones and the effect upon women and their psyche. It's an excellent book and recommend it for all women with mood disorders, PMS, or going through menopause (takes in quite a few of us huh?).
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