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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bubblegumchewer on August 3, 2002, at 9:54:36
I read Shawn's link to "caffeine can cause depression," but I just don't believe it.
Recently after a three month hiatus from caffeine, I reinstated just a ONE cup a day habit and I've felt much better. I have to admit I feel a little manic, like "I have to bookmark this for so-and so, and I have to remember to show this to someone else," etc. It's not out-of-control, though. I actually get out of the house and get things done without dwelling on how tired and unwell I feel.
I realize that caffeine is reputed to cause anxiety but for me, I have more of a devil-may-care attitude and feel more efficient and generally in a better, more empowered and less anxious and brooding mood.
I have had panic attacks but every doctor has given me a depression diagnosis. Maybe the root of my panic attacks is really depression, like they say? One pdoc told me that caffeine has an antidepressant effect and that is why 3/4 of the world is addicted to it. Something about norepinephrine feedback loops or something.
Posted by fairnymph on August 3, 2002, at 13:58:37
In reply to Is caffeine an antidepressant?, posted by bubblegumchewer on August 3, 2002, at 9:54:36
I am fairly sensitive to caffeine (in a good way) and it most definitely has antidepressant properties for me. It also acts as an analgesic (for me) --- a medium sized cup of coffee is equivalent to 15 mg codeine in pain-killing strength. It also makes me really horny and I orgasm twice as quickly!
The sexual stimulation seems to be a common phenomenon among women; I have never heard men report it. Perhaps women are more sensitive/receptive to caffeine's effects?
Are you female by any chance?
~fairnymph
Posted by bubblegumchewer on August 3, 2002, at 15:10:15
In reply to Re: Is caffeine an antidepressant?, posted by fairnymph on August 3, 2002, at 13:58:37
I share your views...
In fact, this is probably related to vasoconstriction, but I tend to get debilitating sinus headaches, not every day but they strike randomly without warning. Just one cup of coffee seems to ward them off. No coffee days = possible killer nose/headache days and coffee days are unlikely to include that kind of headache (which I can't get rid of with Tylenol, by the way. I'm reluctant to take pseudoephedrine, so once I get one, usually I'm stuck with it for the rest of the day.)
Posted by jda1292 on August 3, 2002, at 16:45:05
In reply to Re: Is caffeine an antidepressant?, posted by fairnymph on August 3, 2002, at 13:58:37
Thats it! The wife is getting a new coffee maker/expresso machine for Christmas!
Thanks!
> I am fairly sensitive to caffeine (in a good way) and it most definitely has antidepressant properties for me. It also acts as an analgesic (for me) --- a medium sized cup of coffee is equivalent to 15 mg codeine in pain-killing strength. It also makes me really horny and I orgasm twice as quickly!
>
> The sexual stimulation seems to be a common phenomenon among women; I have never heard men report it. Perhaps women are more sensitive/receptive to caffeine's effects?
>
> Are you female by any chance?
>
> ~fairnymph
Posted by JaneB on August 3, 2002, at 22:51:32
In reply to Yep!, posted by bubblegumchewer on August 3, 2002, at 15:10:15
> I share your views...
>
> In fact, this is probably related to vasoconstriction, but I tend to get debilitating sinus headaches, not every day but they strike randomly without warning. Just one cup of coffee seems to ward them off. No coffee days = possible killer nose/headache days and coffee days are unlikely to include that kind of headache (which I can't get rid of with Tylenol, by the way. I'm reluctant to take pseudoephedrine, so once I get one, usually I'm stuck with it for the rest of the day.)Does pseud. help your headaches? Why are you reluctant to take it? When I wake up with a headache it goes away if I take pseud. but it makes my heart fluttery and I might get dizzy. Is this what happens to you? I tried Zyrtec and it had the same effect. I get tired of headaches! I know lots of them are sinus and weather related. Do you know of anything that works as well as pseud. without heart complications. It could just be anxiety and heart could be fine. Wish I knew.
thanks,
JaneB
Posted by Shawn. T. on August 4, 2002, at 2:07:15
In reply to Is caffeine an antidepressant?, posted by bubblegumchewer on August 3, 2002, at 9:54:36
I'll go ahead and change my opinion on this subject to the following quote.
"The possible link between caffeine intake and other psychiatric diagnoses is less evident. Among psychiatric patients, caffeine consumption is highest among diagnosed schizophrenics and lowest among depressed patients and those with anxiety disorders (Rihs et al., 1996). In view of the interactions between adenosine and DA receptors, it is possible that the intake of caffeine represents an attempt to counteract the actions of the neuroleptic medication. Indeed there are reports that high caffeine intake can exacerbate the symptoms of schizophrenia (Mikkelsen, 1978). The relationship between caffeine intake and depression is also poorly understood and poorly studied. Sleep disorders constitute a major predictor for depression (Chang et al., 1997), and caffeine is known to affect sleep. However, the relationship between poor sleep and subsequent depression holds, even after correction for the intake of caffeine (Chang et al., 1997). Among hospitalized patients there was a correlation between symptoms of depression and caffeine intake (Rihs et al., 1996). Again it is difficult to know if this related to the actions of the antidepressant medication: some of the side effects can probably be counteracted by caffeine. In a study of Japanese medical students, caffeine intake was associated with fewer depressive symptoms among female, but not male students, and in a large prospective study, coffee drinking was negatively correlated with suicide (Kawachi et al., 1996). These findings can be interpreted in two diametrically different ways: 1) caffeine decreases symptoms of depression, including the risk of suicide or 2) individuals with depressive symptoms choose to take less caffeine (in much the same way as anxious patients do). Only a carefully controlled intervention study could possibly elucidate these questions."Caffeine improves ECT:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11941197&dopt=AbstractI didn't have much luck finding very many academic reports on a link between caffeine and depression, but I did find the following link concerning OCD with comorbid depression or bipolar disorder (there is a mention of caffeine).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9387083&dopt=Abstract
Shawn
Posted by Iago Camboa on August 4, 2002, at 3:59:10
In reply to Re: Is caffeine an antidepressant?, posted by fairnymph on August 3, 2002, at 13:58:37
I'm a male but I have to agree 100% with you and Bubblegumchewer on the 'divine' excellence of caffeine. I'm sure the gods of old consumed it on the Olympus.
And the Arabs say the Almighty himself sent coffee as a present to his favorite prophet (Muhammad)... Archangel Gabriel (Arabic 'Jabrail') is said to have been the messenger dispatched by the Eternal for that memorable transaction...Iago
> I am fairly sensitive to caffeine (in a good way) and it most definitely has antidepressant properties for me. It also acts as an analgesic (for me) --- a medium sized cup of coffee is equivalent to 15 mg codeine in pain-killing strength. It also makes me really horny and I orgasm twice as quickly!
>
> The sexual stimulation seems to be a common phenomenon among women; I have never heard men report it. Perhaps women are more sensitive/receptive to caffeine's effects?
>
> Are you female by any chance?
>
> ~fairnymph
Posted by bubblegumchewer on August 4, 2002, at 10:09:43
In reply to Is caffeine an antidepressant?, posted by bubblegumchewer on August 3, 2002, at 9:54:36
Actually, before I join the club, I actually have never gathered evidence about any orgasm-intensifying or hastening effects... Ok, off to the bedroom. Just kidding. I'll have to make a scientific study of that later.
About psuedoephedrine, I am a chicken when it comes to the possibility of unforeseen panic attacks and I was told that such medication may make panic-prone people more vulnerable to an attack, so when I'm already miserable with facial pain, I just don't want to chance extra misery. I've taken it way back in the past and didn't notice any panic symptoms. Once, though, I was given a steroid shot in the doctors office for massive ear and throat swelling (a bad cold) and when I went home I suffered a panic attack. My pdoc then told me that steroids can bring on PAs in susceptible people.
Two conditions made me into and reinforced my status as a coffee "addict." First was having a baby in the house. You are up when you don't want to be, and the hours crawl when you've been watching Barney since 7 AM and you feel like you could sleep four more hours. Some coffee can make you feel less resentful to be up and around.
Second was taking antidepressants like zoloft. I had a fog-like sedation that was unpleasant but found that it could be counteracted by coffee; in fact, I think I developed a heavy habit just to counteract the fog. The mental state caused by lots o' zoloft (I really don't think I needed 200 mg. per day but my doc at the time thought if I was ever unhappy about anything in my life, I should up the dose) and lots o' coffee was slightly manic. No panic, though.
But here was the best combination: Those two plus the OLD Dimetapp. It was like being high: thinking I could hear things other people couldn't hear in music, thinking I was smarter than everyone...
Don't get me wrong: I wasn't seeking that combination; this was once or twice when I had a cold. But they yanked the old Dimetapp off the shelves because one or two people had a stroke from the phenylpropanolamine hydrochloride (PPA). Dimetapp was comprised of that plus brompheniramine maleate. I don't know which ingredient was responsible for the speed-like effects (I think it was the banned PPA. That used to be sold as a diet pill, also.) Now Dimetapp uses pseudoephedrine instead of the PPA and you have to take twice as much purple liquid to get a single dose.
My mom, incidentally, who is a former alcoholic, seemed to love the old Dimetapp; she was always picking up a store-brand bottle of it wherever she went.
Yes, I think that stimulant-type meds like pseudoephedrine do give me heart beat abnormalities like extra beats, flutters etc. They don't worry me but they are annoying. Caffeine can cause them but usually as long as I drink enough fluids (my pressure is low and I've been told to drink a lot and eat lots of salt) I have no heart problems.
Sorry this was long.
Posted by awake at last on August 6, 2002, at 8:57:56
In reply to Is caffeine an antidepressant?, posted by bubblegumchewer on August 3, 2002, at 9:54:36
> I read Shawn's link to "caffeine can cause depression," but I just don't believe it.
>
> Recently after a three month hiatus from caffeine, I reinstated just a ONE cup a day habit and I've felt much better. I have to admit I feel a little manic, like "I have to bookmark this for so-and so, and I have to remember to show this to someone else," etc. It's not out-of-control, though. I actually get out of the house and get things done without dwelling on how tired and unwell I feel.
>
> I realize that caffeine is reputed to cause anxiety but for me, I have more of a devil-may-care attitude and feel more efficient and generally in a better, more empowered and less anxious and brooding mood.
>
> I have had panic attacks but every doctor has given me a depression diagnosis. Maybe the root of my panic attacks is really depression, like they say? One pdoc told me that caffeine has an antidepressant effect and that is why 3/4 of the world is addicted to it. Something about norepinephrine feedback loops or something.
***********************************************
BBC,
I finally got a chance to answer your question under the (Sleep is my Krptonite thread) regarding my Narcolepsy. One of the things I didn't mention and should have is that now I pretty much obstain (for the most part) from Caffeine.
I, like you, previously found that caffiene was a wonderful product - I drank it by the ton. It was the one thing that made me feel better, it gave me the lift to stay awake and feel alive, and that extra edge I needed to be able to concentrate. But, once it was out of my system, I crashed and burned, my original problems were worse. However, I now believe that caffeine was another one of those "fixes" I was using to treat a symptom rather than finding my true problem and obtaining a cure (read other thread and this will make since.)
Now that I have corrected what is really wrong with me, I fell great, but I obstain from Caffeine now, I find that when I do drink it, it messes with my Narcolepsy (and perhaps my hypoglycemia as well) and I start felling bad again. I can drink a diet coke on occasion and it doesn't affect me unless it's just before bed time (lets face it - not many restaurants serve a caffiene-free/sugar-free soda, so I cave and get one when nothing else is available).
Again, I think you should question whether the caffeine is helping you, or covering a symptom to a true problem... if it's just covering the symptom, then in time you are probably only going to get worse...I know I did.
This is the end of the thread.
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