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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by mixedstates on April 1, 2002, at 13:50:03
In reply to New to Parnate maoi, posted by mouse on March 30, 2002, at 20:08:14
> I just started taking parnate. I don't know if it is working yet. I do get tired after taking the pills. I take 10 mg in the am and 10 in the afternoon. I've been taking it for about 10 days so for. I have researched the Internet regarding diet. Just wondering if there are other moai's out there? Anyone taking parnate? Any stories?
>
> mouseWelcome to Parnate World Mouse,
I hope you have as much success with parnate as I have. If you are unsure if it is working yet give it some time as adjustments in dose maybe necessary that is what I and many others have experienced. Also regarding dose some pdocs and others without much experience with parnate believe that if the med is not working by 30mg that it is not likely going to be effective. Simply not true as it 60mg for optimal therpeutic benefit for me. Everyone is different but many of us take more than the 30mg dose. It is good that you are trying to learn as much as possible about this med as there are many nuances with parnate and maois' in general. The drug is infrequently prescribed and its experiences from users that really benefit most maoi users. There is much info on the internet and elsewhere, much which I have saved for future reference if you need more info. Goodluck, mixedstates999@msn.com
Posted by mouse on April 1, 2002, at 20:48:22
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi, posted by mixedstates on April 1, 2002, at 13:50:03
> > snip>
> Welcome to Parnate World Mouse,
> I hope you have as much success with parnate as I have. If you are unsure if it is working yet give it some time as adjustments in dose maybe necessary that is what I and many others have experienced. Also regarding dose some pdocs and others without much experience with parnate believe that if the med is not working by 30mg that it is not likely going to be effective. Simply not true as it 60mg for optimal therpeutic benefit for me. Everyone is different but many of us take more than the 30mg dose. It is good that you are trying to learn as much as possible about this med as there are many nuances with parnate and maois' in general. The drug is infrequently prescribed and its experiences from users that really benefit most maoi users. There is much info on the internet and elsewhere, much which I have saved for future reference if you need more info. Goodluck, mixedstates999@msn.comThanks for the encouragement, Mixedstates. It's nice to communicate with someone who's been through this before. So far I'm not having nasty side effects so that is a plus. I seem to feel fine-not depressed some of the time. It's only day 12 though. I know it can take time. mouse
Posted by cirrus6000 on June 9, 2002, at 22:58:27
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi, posted by mixedstates on April 1, 2002, at 13:50:03
how is parnate working out for you? and what about ejaculatory disfunction? has that been a problem for you if you are a guy? b/c it was for me while i was on nardil 15mg 2x daily
Posted by mouse on June 28, 2002, at 22:04:13
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi » mixedstates, posted by cirrus6000 on June 9, 2002, at 22:58:27
> how is parnate working out for you? and what about ejaculatory disfunction? has that been a problem for you if you are a guy? b/c it was for me while i was on nardil 15mg 2x daily
Sorry it has taken so long to respond. Been away for awhile. Sorry. Parnate is working wonderfully for me. I am not depressed anymore. I have less anxiety as well while in public. I'm a female so don't have ejaculatory disfunction but have found that this does not inhibit me as the other meds have done. It may be so for the men too, I don't really know. This med is so good that I don't have the cloudy thinking either, which for me is more important then the sexual aspect of it. I like it and have yet to have any problems with the diet.
mouse
Posted by Geezer on June 29, 2002, at 11:23:29
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi » mixedstates, posted by mouse on June 28, 2002, at 22:04:13
Hi Mouse,
Did you have any difficult "start up" problems. I tend to have difficulty staying with new meds. if they have nasty early side effects. My current complaints are moderate depression, sever anerga, and hypersomnia. I thing I took Parnate way back in the 70s but for too brief a time period.
Current meds. - Depakote 750mg, Lamictal 100mg, Ambien 10mg., anf Klonopin 0.5mg.
Can you give me an idea how long the Parnate took to kick in?
Glad you are doing well.
Geezer
Posted by Ed on June 29, 2002, at 12:59:51
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi » mixedstates, posted by Geezer on June 29, 2002, at 11:23:29
I started Parnate ten days ago, first 20 mg a day then 30 mg a day after the first week. It makes me tired during the day, but no other real side effects. Of course it hasn't kicked in yet. I am hoping tiredness diminishes over time.
Posted by mouse on June 29, 2002, at 15:01:12
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi » mixedstates, posted by Geezer on June 29, 2002, at 11:23:29
Hi Geezer,
I'm not one of the people here who can analyze the meds, sorry. But on a personal level it took me about one month. I don't remember any side effects except that when the pdoc increased the med at about 1 month I had to remember to take it before 3 pm or I would have difficulty sleeping. So I take 20 mg in the morning and then take 10 mg sometime before 3:00 pm and I'm fine. I usually take it at my lunch break which is about 1:00. If I forget I just don't take it. It doesn't seem to matter if I forget one once in awhile. The 30 mg is about right for me. I was very depressed and experinecing a lot of social anxiety. I still have some socal anxiety and may increase the med to cover that at my next pdoc but as far as the depression I'm fine. I tried to commit suicide in Decemeber 2001. Very depressed. So this really does work. At least for me. I'm very pleased with it. I was very scared about the diet but it's not been a problem. I follow the rules. I'm diabetic as well. I'm not on meds or insulin, control it with diet and exercise so I understand diets. Hope you find it helpful. It's a good med. My only reqret is that I didn't ask to be put on it sooner. mouse.
> Hi Mouse,
>
> Did you have any difficult "start up" problems. I tend to have difficulty staying with new meds. if they have nasty early side effects. My current complaints are moderate depression, sever anerga, and hypersomnia. I thing I took Parnate way back in the 70s but for too brief a time period.
>
> Current meds. - Depakote 750mg, Lamictal 100mg, Ambien 10mg., anf Klonopin 0.5mg.
>
> Can you give me an idea how long the Parnate took to kick in?
>
> Glad you are doing well.
>
> Geezer
Posted by mouse on June 29, 2002, at 15:10:54
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi » mixedstates, posted by Ed on June 29, 2002, at 12:59:51
Oh that is right, I said I experineced no side effects but the tiredness is one that happened to me. This is what happened to me. At first when I went on it I wolud feel so tired I could go to bed and sleep. Well that is not what I expected with Parnate, but that is what happened. As the 3 months since I started have passed what happens now is that if I miss my dose in the afternoon I start yawning and feeling tired. It is just the opposite. Then if it is too late and I take the med then I don't sleep well during the night. But I don't feel sleepy after taking them anymore. So it did pass. I don't feel hyper either. Just sort of even. I'm not depressed and I don't have suicidal thoughts. I get up in the mornings and feel good about the day. I go to work (work part-time now) and feel good about what I'm doing. The working helps too. But the parnate is good for me. Like I said in the last post I wish I'd tried this earlier. The sleepiness for me was minor at the time since I was feeling so crummy anyway. I guess it's been the last month that I have noticed I feel good in the mornings. So overall it took about 2 months before I was feeling this much better. I hope you have good results. But not to worry about the tiredness. It does go away with a little time, at least for me it did.
mouse
> I started Parnate ten days ago, first 20 mg a day then 30 mg a day after the first week. It makes me tired during the day, but no other real side effects. Of course it hasn't kicked in yet. I am hoping tiredness diminishes over time.
Posted by ayrity on June 29, 2002, at 16:26:07
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi » mixedstates, posted by mouse on June 28, 2002, at 22:04:13
Hi. I'm a 37 yo guy, atypical depression (I guess). I started parnate a few weeks ago. I'm on 30 mg a day (20 mg in AM, 10 mg midday). In general, I thought I was feeling a bit better and more focused. But I'm feeling a bit more of the daytime tiredness now and can't seem to get out of the house on weekends. Also, I had a hypertensive episode yesterday- I took my BP, which was very high; fortunately, I had Nifedipine, took it right away and everything was ok. It must have been something at lunch, though I've been very careful.
This was scary; I'm not happy about being on an maoi, but nothing else has worked. I've tried Celexa, Celexa + Welbutrin, Welbutrin alone, Effexor, Provigil- nada, only extreme fatigue and side effects. The Parnate is not as bad with the fatigue as others, but the potential for problems is more severe, as I've already experienced.
Very frustrating. I seem to get only the side effects of meds and none of the benefits! I don't have severe depression, never been suicidal, but I've been miserable and isolated for so long that I'm desperate enough to try anything (I guess that's severe enough). I'll stick with the Parnate a bit longer, despite the recent episode, but now I'm scared to go up on the dose given recent events. Any similar experiences? Thanks.
Posted by mouse on June 29, 2002, at 17:16:40
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi , posted by ayrity on June 29, 2002, at 16:26:07
Hi Ayrity,
You mention that you have been an parnate for a few weeks. It took a month for me to "start" feeling better and it's been 3 months since I started. It may take you some time before you notice feeling better. It may be that the tiredness in usual for this medication for you, but for me it stopped doing that.
You say you can't get out of the house on the weekends. Social phobia? For me the social phobia has diminished but that was not true until recently. So it may take time. I'm finding that I feel more comfortable not totally comfortable. It may be that my pdoc will up the meds or he may do something else. Who knows?
There are lots of options. It may not feel like it but there are combinations that they can use. Have you considered CBT (Cognitive Behavior Therapy)? Also have you considered exercise? It has been proven to help with both depression and anxiety. I can swear by it helping me. The endorphins get going with my exercise regime and it helps for about 2 days then I can feel the need for more exercise. I first learned of this with trying to control my diabetes but have found it helps with the depression/anxiety too. It can add to your control. Help a bit too. That way you have more than one thing working for you. Use all your resourses, Arity. Not just meds. We can't count on meds to be the cure all, but in combination it can help so that you don't feel so miserable.
I'm sure the hypertensive episode was very scary. The way that I avoid them is to be very consistant with my diet. I have basically the same things all week. I slowly added unfamiliar things to my diet. If you have just started the meds you may want to look at your lunch and compare it to the list your doctor gave you. Is anything on the list? If not did you have something that has an extract in it? Or tenderizer on your meat? Let us know what you ate and perhaps we can give you some suggestion for identifying the culpert. You can control your diet, but it takes time as well. When I first started the parnate I was scared to eat anything. Slowly I tested and added things.
You say you seem to have all the side effects and none of the benefits! This may feel like that but you have not given the med a chance to work. I don't understand the brain stuff that goes on but I do know that you need to let these meds work with you. They take time to change the chemicals in your brain. Then as I've suggested before have you tried the CBT and exercise? For me the exercise needs to be about 30 minutes in duration. I do not work out frantically, it is slow paced. I alternate using my exercise bike and my treadmill. I used to use the gym but decided to save some money and work at home. I did get a better workout in the gym but economics are difficult. It might surprise you that I went to the gym. I took my daughter with me at first (she was 16) but after I started getting a good routine going I felt better so I didn't need her to go with me. Those endophines really do effect us in a positive manner. Give it a try and see if you don't find some results. It's summer here, what about where you are from? Can you walk for 30 minutes around your neighborhood or even in your back yard? It's worth a test to see if it might help.
30 mgs may be all that you need. Don't worry about taking more just yet. Give it time, Arity. Even if you don't use anything else it may kick in sooner than you realize and then you'll feel better. There is hope. Look at all your options and see if they help.
mouse
> Hi. I'm a 37 yo guy, atypical depression (I guess). I started parnate a few weeks ago. I'm on 30 mg a day (20 mg in AM, 10 mg midday). In general, I thought I was feeling a bit better and more focused. But I'm feeling a bit more of the daytime tiredness now and can't seem to get out of the house on weekends. Also, I had a hypertensive episode yesterday- I took my BP, which was very high; fortunately, I had Nifedipine, took it right away and everything was ok. It must have been something at lunch, though I've been very careful.
>
> This was scary; I'm not happy about being on an maoi, but nothing else has worked. I've tried Celexa, Celexa + Welbutrin, Welbutrin alone, Effexor, Provigil- nada, only extreme fatigue and side effects. The Parnate is not as bad with the fatigue as others, but the potential for problems is more severe, as I've already experienced.
>
> Very frustrating. I seem to get only the side effects of meds and none of the benefits! I don't have severe depression, never been suicidal, but I've been miserable and isolated for so long that I'm desperate enough to try anything (I guess that's severe enough). I'll stick with the Parnate a bit longer, despite the recent episode, but now I'm scared to go up on the dose given recent events. Any similar experiences? Thanks.
Posted by suji on June 30, 2002, at 14:24:29
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi Ayrity, posted by mouse on June 29, 2002, at 17:16:40
I have always found MAOI's to be the most effective AD's for me...especially Marplan. As I mentioned in another post, the most significant problem I had with MAOI's was muscle toxicity. The worst thing was climbing stairs when my legs would just sort of "freeze up" and I would have to stop for a few moments until I could continue... Anyone else experienced this problem? Any ideas? I would really prefer to go back on Marplan if I could find a solution to this problem (there are a lot of stairs in my life!).
I also found that sometimes I felt nauseous if I had leftovers or food that was a bit less than fresh...so, sometimes following the "diet" isn't enough--it's good to keep in mind that some foods that are normally okay to eat may become "iffy" if they're not totally fresh (this is particularly unfortunate if you love "leftovers," as I do!); and it's a good idea to be aware of overly ripe fruit and veggies...they can also be problematic for some people taking MAOI's...
:=)
suji
Posted by mouse on June 30, 2002, at 20:58:37
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi/diet, posted by suji on June 30, 2002, at 14:24:29
Hi suji,
I have felt nauseous as well, didn't sort it out to be with leftovers but that is a very real possibility. There are lots of things to be aware of with the MAOI's. I think the benefits are good though. I have a clear head the first time in years! and I don't feel depressed and I feel less anxiety. So it's worth it. I haven't tried Marplan but am glad there are other options if the Parnate stops working. Do you still use the MAOI's? Sounds like you have moved on to others.
Stairs both real and symbolically are a very real part of life, aren't they? Hope you find a solution to the muscle toxicity. I don't have that problem. Have you tried decreasing the dosage? What about lifting weights to move the blood around in the muscles? Good luck in finding an answer.
mouse
> I have always found MAOI's to be the most effective AD's for me...especially Marplan. As I mentioned in another post, the most significant problem I had with MAOI's was muscle toxicity. The worst thing was climbing stairs when my legs would just sort of "freeze up" and I would have to stop for a few moments until I could continue... Anyone else experienced this problem? Any ideas? I would really prefer to go back on Marplan if I could find a solution to this problem (there are a lot of stairs in my life!).
>
> I also found that sometimes I felt nauseous if I had leftovers or food that was a bit less than fresh...so, sometimes following the "diet" isn't enough--it's good to keep in mind that some foods that are normally okay to eat may become "iffy" if they're not totally fresh (this is particularly unfortunate if you love "leftovers," as I do!); and it's a good idea to be aware of overly ripe fruit and veggies...they can also be problematic for some people taking MAOI's...
>
> :=)
>
> suji
Posted by ayrity on July 3, 2002, at 22:30:57
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi Ayrity, posted by mouse on June 29, 2002, at 17:16:40
Hello mouse:
Thank you for the encouragement. Sorry to take so long to get back to you.No doubt I have some social phobia- not anxiety in the classic sense but definte difficulty with self esteem, relationships, meeting people, etc. I tried SSRIs first, but the fatigue was too overwheming and they didn't help me all that much.
Atypical depression is probably my main problem- extreme fatigue is a prominent part of my depression. Hopefully the maoi will help- so far, not so much. I've head of CBT- it's probably worth a try; I might look into it eventually.
Exercise definitely helps when I can force myself past my fatigue to participate. I definitely feel more energized and in better spirits afterwards, at least for a short while.
I find I'm feeling *more* antisocial and withdrawn lately since starting Parnate. Maybe the fatigue again, maybe an adjustment period.
I've been watching my BP carefully. Just had a session today with my md- if my BP is ok over the next few days we're going to up the dose a bit to 40 mg. We'll see. BTW, I did not eat anything unusual before the hypertensive crisis; I've been very careful. I had a grilled chicken sandwich for lunch- perhaps the meat wasn't fresh. It also could have been a spontaneous reaction, which can happen with Parnate. As long as it doesn't happen again....
By the way, I'm already sick of the diet!!! I usually grab luch from a cafeteria or take-out. Now I never know where to eat anymore! I'm mostly eating junk because I know it's safe (especially after the recent BP scare). I'm not sure this is a long term solution, but I'll stick it out for now. The hard thing will be trying to make up excuses for visiting family why I can't eat this or that, or go out for Chinese food, etc. Arrrgh!
Thanks again for the support!
> Hi Ayrity,
> You say you can't get out of the house on the weekends. Social phobia? For me the social phobia has diminished but that was not true until recently. So it may take time.
> There are lots of options. It may not feel like it but there are combinations that they can use. Have you considered CBT (Cognitive Behavior Therapy)? Also have you considered exercise?
> I'm sure the hypertensive episode was very scary.
Posted by cybercafe on July 4, 2002, at 4:17:04
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi Ayrity, posted by ayrity on July 3, 2002, at 22:30:57
>
> Atypical depression is probably my main problem- extreme fatigue is a prominent part of my depression. Hopefully the maoi will help- so far, not so much. I've head of CBT- it's probably worth a try; I might look into it eventually.yeah i had the same problem too... slept way too much... Parnate fixed that for me... though it's still early (4 weeks or so)
> Exercise definitely helps when I can force myself past my fatigue to participate. I definitely feel more energized and in better spirits afterwards, at least for a short while.
yep i agree... does a lot for me... maybe if i learned some moderation i could do it more than 2 times a week?
> I find I'm feeling *more* antisocial and withdrawn lately since starting Parnate. Maybe the fatigue again, maybe an adjustment period.... at first i felt more agitated and antisocial... but just recently i have become more social...
maybe it just makes things more interesting? i don't know... but i do know things would definately be tougher without it....
and i also remember a person posting that it took them 3 months before they really felt decent anti-anxiety effects, .. so it might be worth your while to hang in there....
and i guess if it doesn't work, you may do well on Nardil....>very careful. I had a grilled chicken sandwich for lunch- perhaps the meat wasn't fresh. It also could have been a spontaneous reaction, which can happen with Parnate. As long as it doesn't happen again....
that is weird... the only things i avoid are soy sauce, marmite, alcohol, aged cheese and cavear
do you have any underlying risk factors?
i'm a 27 year old male
btw how long have you been on Parnate ?
Posted by mouse on July 4, 2002, at 11:48:55
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi Ayrity, posted by ayrity on July 3, 2002, at 22:30:57
Hello Ayrity,
Glad to hear from you. Like most of us, you do the best you can. Make decisions based upon what you can do and what you are willing to put up with. Fortunatily for me, Parnate has been very good. Perhaps for you, in time, it will also serve you as well. As far as going out... I don't know. Family? Do they know you are on medications? Sometimes they can be supportive, sometimes not. Which sort of family do you have? I hope the best for you.
mouse
> Hello mouse:
> Thank you for the encouragement. Sorry to take so long to get back to you.
>
> No doubt I have some social phobia- not anxiety in the classic sense but definte difficulty with self esteem, relationships, meeting people, etc. I tried SSRIs first, but the fatigue was too overwheming and they didn't help me all that much.
>
> Atypical depression is probably my main problem- extreme fatigue is a prominent part of my depression. Hopefully the maoi will help- so far, not so much. I've head of CBT- it's probably worth a try; I might look into it eventually.
>
> Exercise definitely helps when I can force myself past my fatigue to participate. I definitely feel more energized and in better spirits afterwards, at least for a short while.
>
> I find I'm feeling *more* antisocial and withdrawn lately since starting Parnate. Maybe the fatigue again, maybe an adjustment period.
>
> I've been watching my BP carefully. Just had a session today with my md- if my BP is ok over the next few days we're going to up the dose a bit to 40 mg. We'll see. BTW, I did not eat anything unusual before the hypertensive crisis; I've been very careful. I had a grilled chicken sandwich for lunch- perhaps the meat wasn't fresh. It also could have been a spontaneous reaction, which can happen with Parnate. As long as it doesn't happen again....
>
> By the way, I'm already sick of the diet!!! I usually grab luch from a cafeteria or take-out. Now I never know where to eat anymore! I'm mostly eating junk because I know it's safe (especially after the recent BP scare). I'm not sure this is a long term solution, but I'll stick it out for now. The hard thing will be trying to make up excuses for visiting family why I can't eat this or that, or go out for Chinese food, etc. Arrrgh!
>
> Thanks again for the support!
>
Posted by ayrity on July 4, 2002, at 20:24:18
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi » mixedstates, posted by mouse on June 28, 2002, at 22:04:13
Hi Cyber and Mouse:
Thanks for the responses. It's nice to talk to people who can share their experiences.Cyber, in answer to your question, I'm going on my 4th week with Parnate. So far, all it has done is made me tired, given me occassional high blood pressure and I feel if anything more subdued and withdrawn lately. But I'm patient- what choice do I have? I'll give it a bit longer. I've never had blood pressure problems before. My mother has hypertension, so maybe I have an inherited tendency.
I don't know- part of me says that I shouldn't be taking a medication like this. I've never been suicidal, I'm fairly successful in my career. Yet, I've been miserable most of my life, I have no friends and I have trouble making social contact, my marriage fell apart a few years ago and I can't move on (though my problems preceded the breakup). Then there's the hypersomnolence, extreme fatigue (even off meds), poor self esteem, etc. There's lots of other stuff that's too complicated and long to go into right now, serious family crap, etc. Sounds like enough.... Nothing has worked for me, I can't do it on my own, counseling alone did nothing, so I'm willing to give yet another med a try. I'm skeptical but hopeful, too.
As far as discussing with family- I see no need to worry my mother. My ex-wife (well, we're separated, not divorced as of yet) would freak if she knew I was on meds. She has her own issues- she had bad experiences with her own mother, who is bipolar; so she has a lot of issues dealing with psychiatry and meds. I moved away a few years ago (we see each other from time to time). My wife might visit soon- it'll be difficult to get around the dietary problems and I don't really want to tell her about the medication.
Thanks for listening folks.
Posted by mouse on July 5, 2002, at 0:50:35
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi, posted by ayrity on July 4, 2002, at 20:24:18
> Hi Cyber and Mouse:
> Thanks for the responses. It's nice to talk to people who can share their experiences.
>
Glad to be supportive where I can be. I asked for support when I first started taking this too. It's nice when people respond even if just to say hello.> Cyber, in answer to your question, I'm going on my 4th week with Parnate. So far, all it has done is made me tired, given me occassional high blood pressure and I feel if anything more subdued and withdrawn lately. But I'm patient- what choice do I have? I'll give it a bit longer. I've never had blood pressure problems before. My mother has hypertension, so maybe I have an inherited tendency.
>
> I don't know- part of me says that I shouldn't be taking a medication like this. I've never been suicidal, I'm fairly successful in my career.You don't need to be suicidal to take the meds, that was just my experince and I am feeling so much better now. That is all that I wanted to get across by saying I was that depressed. But if you doubt your reasons for being on the med ask your pdoc. (or GP).
> Yet, I've been miserable most of my life, I have no friends and I have trouble making social contact, my marriage fell apart a few years ago and I can't move on (though my problems preceded the breakup). Then there's the hypersomnolence, extreme fatigue (even off meds), poor self esteem, etc. There's lots of other stuff that's too complicated and long to go into right now, serious family crap, etc. Sounds like enough.... Nothing has worked for me, I can't do it on my own, counseling alone did nothing, so I'm willing to give yet another med a try. I'm skeptical but hopeful, too.
>Keep the hope. Even if it's not parnate there is help. When I was at my deepest in dispair what kept me going is that it does get better. Hang in there. It might be a med, a counselor, or just nature that helps but something usually turns the tide.
> As far as discussing with family- I see no need to worry my mother. My ex-wife (well, we're separated, not divorced as of yet) would freak if she knew I was on meds. She has her own issues- she had bad experiences with her own mother, who is bipolar; so she has a lot of issues dealing with psychiatry and meds. I moved away a few years ago (we see each other from time to time). My wife might visit soon- it'll be difficult to get around the dietary problems and I don't really want to tell her about the medication.
>Totally understood. Somethings need to be private until you have the trust build to talk about them. Though I'm sure your anxiety is different than someone with bipolar. But it is understandable because my daughter has seen me at my worst and I fear she'll have issues too, but I'm sure she'll be fine too. Strangly people do deal with things even when they don't want to. But until you feel comfortable no need to put yourself or your x-spouse in the middle of it. Just don't let her find out during a crisis. That is not the best time to say something.
> Thanks for listening folks.
No problem. It's nice to encourge you and to share my feelings. I hope that you do well, but know that whatever happens you will take good care of yourself. Just remember that someone else also said that they felt better with their anxiety at 3 months and that is true for me so try to hang in until then if you can.
mouse
Posted by Seamus2 on July 5, 2002, at 2:03:49
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi, posted by ayrity on July 4, 2002, at 20:24:18
Ayrity,
Hang in there. You've done it before.
What was Thoureau's line about quiet desperation?
(or was that Elliot?) I think I'm mixing up bang and whimper with quiet desperation....
Anyway, my experience w/ Nardil (another MAOI) was that I needed to ramp the dose above and beyond normal levels for just a couple weeks, *then* drop down to the more typical dose range.
You may need to do the same with the Parnate. W/ Parnate divided dosing is a *must* to avoid side effects; along with a sensible diet.
I would recommend 10 mg immediately on waking; 10 mg each 3 hours later for a total of 40 mg/day for two weeks. Treat insomnia PRN w/ Ambien 10-20 mgs.
Adjust dose *only* after following that protocol.
It's not a magic happy pill; there is no such thing. But if in fact the "chemistry is screwed up" it might help put things in perspective.
Regards,
Seamus
Posted by cybercafe on July 5, 2002, at 4:01:55
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi » ayrity, posted by Seamus2 on July 5, 2002, at 2:03:49
> You may need to do the same with the Parnate. W/ Parnate divided dosing is a *must* to avoid side effects; along with a sensible diet.
Hmmm.. I don't divide the doses, and am pretty much side effect free. I'm taking 30 mg, if it helps...
The only thing I've really had to cut out of my diet is marmite.. and I'm careful of aged cheeses
but obviously these things vary from person to person
Posted by Siba on June 23, 2003, at 12:45:26
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi, posted by cybercafe on July 5, 2002, at 4:01:55
Greetings all,
I've been on Parnate now for 3 months, 40mg during Summer and 60mg the rest of the year. I suffer from Bi-Polar with A-typical depression (with onset during childhood) and Hypomania. I take all of my meds at once around 2:00pm, as I find it prevents the tiredness.
Since starting this drug, it seems that everyday I wake up life is a little bit more clear. My social problems, such as esteem, relationships, being in crowds, has diminished a huge amount. Depression, gone.
The diet restrictions aren't a problem when considering the benefits. That said, I've had 3 minor hypertensive crisis (2 from food and 1 spontaneous), but only one trip to the ER and that turned out to be unneccesary. My PDoc gave me an article that said you can take 2 of the blood pressure meds before seeking help, and I've found that after taking one 20 mg pill my BP drops back to safe w/in 20 minutes. I avoid all cheese except fresh & mozzarella, as well as most all air-dried proteins & tap beer. I do on occasion drink more than the recommended amount of alcohol and haven't had any problems.
So I do have one problem...sexual disfunction (that's how well parnate is for me...first relationship in 6 years!). Parnate is MUCH better than when I was Lithium and Effexor, but I still have trouble climaxing and it's not the intense kind that one experiences sans meds. PDoc said this side effect could take as long as a year to go away!!! YIKES.Anybody experiencing this, and if so, what are the options for curing it?
BTW, I'm very active, running 20-25 miles per week, so increasing exercise isn't gonna happen.
Pre thanks,
Siba
Posted by cirrus6000 on June 23, 2003, at 13:31:09
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi » cybercafe, posted by Siba on June 23, 2003, at 12:45:26
> Greetings all,
>
> I've been on Parnate now for 3 months, 40mg during Summer and 60mg the rest of the year. I suffer from Bi-Polar with A-typical depression (with onset during childhood) and Hypomania. I take all of my meds at once around 2:00pm, as I find it prevents the tiredness.
> Since starting this drug, it seems that everyday I wake up life is a little bit more clear. My social problems, such as esteem, relationships, being in crowds, has diminished a huge amount. Depression, gone.
> The diet restrictions aren't a problem when considering the benefits. That said, I've had 3 minor hypertensive crisis (2 from food and 1 spontaneous), but only one trip to the ER and that turned out to be unneccesary. My PDoc gave me an article that said you can take 2 of the blood pressure meds before seeking help, and I've found that after taking one 20 mg pill my BP drops back to safe w/in 20 minutes. I avoid all cheese except fresh & mozzarella, as well as most all air-dried proteins & tap beer. I do on occasion drink more than the recommended amount of alcohol and haven't had any problems.
> So I do have one problem...sexual disfunction (that's how well parnate is for me...first relationship in 6 years!). Parnate is MUCH better than when I was Lithium and Effexor, but I still have trouble climaxing and it's not the intense kind that one experiences sans meds. PDoc said this side effect could take as long as a year to go away!!! YIKES.
>
> Anybody experiencing this, and if so, what are the options for curing it?
> BTW, I'm very active, running 20-25 miles per week, so increasing exercise isn't gonna happen.
> Pre thanks,
> SibaWoW, I'm on only 10 mgs of parnate and for a few weeks (at the time I believed that I was building up a tolerence to the drug)which I am not sure is possible in the case of parnate. Well anyways back to my story, about a year ago(more or less)I was on Nardil and had the same impotency problem I could get it up just fine I just couldn't come to an orgasm. best of luck you might consider switching to nardil I switched to parnate and now my impotency problem/sexual dysfunction has disappeared.
sincerely cirrus6000
Posted by Siba on June 23, 2003, at 14:18:59
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi, posted by cirrus6000 on June 23, 2003, at 13:31:09
Strange that your Pdoc hasn't increased your dosage. Mine started me on 20mg, increasing it to 60mg in 3 day intervals. Then once the effects were felt he started backing me down. According to him, the high dosage is like a jump start, but as I mentioned my depression was present from childhood.
For whatever reason, my body takes more chemicals/meds than other people. My Pdoc said he usually doesn't prescribe such a high dose for somebody my size (5'10, 150lbs).Did you start out at 10mg? Or have you increased to it? I wonder if you've started at 10mg, why it hasn't been increased, esp if you're feeling a "tolorance".
Nardil, btw, sucked. All of the potential side effects occured. By day 3 I knew it was wrong and switched to Parnate, which I could tell w/in 4 days that it was working. It's so right, that I don't want to chance a different one, only for the SD side effect.
Good Luck...
Siba
Posted by cirrus6000 on June 23, 2003, at 14:41:25
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi » cirrus6000, posted by Siba on June 23, 2003, at 14:18:59
have you tried viagra It helped me when I was on Nardil, I started out at 10mg and once I/my girlfriend noticec that I wasn't smiling as much I decided to personally up the dosage to 20mg/day W/O my Pdocs permission. I drink gin and tonics every weekend, it doesn't seem to bother me, ie I had 4 last night.
Could you please explain this "Mine started me on 20mg, increasing it to 60mg in 3 day intervals. Then once the effects were felt he started backing me down." in particular the 60mg in 3 day intervals What does that mean?
Posted by Siba on June 23, 2003, at 15:09:23
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi, posted by cirrus6000 on June 23, 2003, at 14:41:25
Cirrus600-
I just found the original instruction from my Pdoc. Here's how my treatment went:
Day 1 - 20mg
Day 2 - 40mg
Day 3 - 60mgSo actually he increased me faster than I initial thought. I stayed at 60mg for 4 weeks and only backed down to 40 because of insomnia (plus I'm seasonally activated (?), don't get depressed in the summer).
I wanted to stay at 60mg, which I will increase back up in Autumn, but Pdoc said 40mg is a typical dosage. Which is why I questioned your low dose...BUT, I don't know your history and how long you've suffered from depression.
How long have you been at 20mg? Have you noticed a difference with the increase?
Personally, I would call and ask your Pdoc about increasing dosage and/or why they are keeping you at the same level when there is no significant change.
I've found that Parnate of all the MAOI's scare people/doc's the most, as it is the most food sensitive of the class and always kills a couple people in England, where MAOI's in general are used regularly...maybe this is your doc's concern???
Mine actually wanted me to try the third MAOI (can't remember name) and if it didn't work, go back to Parnate, because it does make him nervous...I told him forget it! I feel to good to mess around with another, when Parnate is working so well!
Siba
Posted by cirrus6000 on June 23, 2003, at 15:42:23
In reply to Re: New to Parnate maoi » cirrus6000, posted by Siba on June 23, 2003, at 15:09:23
> Cirrus600-
>
> I just found the original instruction from my Pdoc. Here's how my treatment went:
>
> Day 1 - 20mg
> Day 2 - 40mg
> Day 3 - 60mg
>
> So actually he increased me faster than I initial thought. I stayed at 60mg for 4 weeks and only backed down to 40 because of insomnia (plus I'm seasonally activated (?), don't get depressed in the summer).
> I wanted to stay at 60mg, which I will increase back up in Autumn, but Pdoc said 40mg is a typical dosage. Which is why I questioned your low dose...BUT, I don't know your history and how long you've suffered from depression.
> How long have you been at 20mg? Have you noticed a difference with the increase?
> Personally, I would call and ask your Pdoc about increasing dosage and/or why they are keeping you at the same level when there is no significant change.
> I've found that Parnate of all the MAOI's scare people/doc's the most, as it is the most food sensitive of the class and always kills a couple people in England, where MAOI's in general are used regularly...maybe this is your doc's concern???
> Mine actually wanted me to try the third MAOI (can't remember name) and if it didn't work, go back to Parnate, because it does make him nervous...I told him forget it! I feel to good to mess around with another, when Parnate is working so well!
> SibaMy depression was diagnosed at least 10 years ago I was first on paxil for 5 years or so then prozac, effexor, serzone, wellbutrin, Nardil, and now Parnate which I think is working out best for me I eat cheese pizza all the time too. and as I previously mentioned drink gin and tonics occasionally too but I don't like beer and I'm not a big fan of wine either so there's no problem but on my presciption papers that come with the bottle of Parnate there is a warning not to drink any alcohol. Do you understand this at all?
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