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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Analine on May 14, 2002, at 1:30:21
Hi all, I come here a lot to read the posts but hardly post myself because I'm really shy. I hope you all don't mind if I have a bit of a sook, I'm just feeling so down.
I went off Effexor about 2 months ago because even thought it was making me happy :) I had gained 15 kg (dunno how many pounds that is sorry), and had NO libido to speak of. It can be so hard to live like this even if you feel happy. It was so hard coming off, what with all the withdrawals, and I vowed that even if I did get depressed again I wouldn't go back on it I'd try something different.
I should have known, since then I've been getting the familiar thoughts and feelings I got before of just HATING myself. I don't feel depressed as such, more sad but I hate myself and think I'm a worthless waste of space and a loser. I don't know if that counts as depression or if it warrants some more AD's or not???
I went to my new GP (I don't have a psychiatrist) and he hardly even listened to me :'(. I told him I was thinking of trying AD's again and I suggested Prozac because it worked for my mum, or maybe Zoloft. He didn't even ask how I was feeling...strange...but said that most AD's have side effects (which I already knew) and that I may as well go back on Effexor.
I'm so sad and don't know if I should go back on the Effexor or nothing at all. What if I'm not even depressed? Maybe I'm just crazy and want attention or want to feel special or whatever?
Sorry for this HUGE post, I'm just so frustrated and needed to get it all out.
:'( Thanks for listening.
xxx
Posted by bookgurl99 on May 14, 2002, at 3:50:23
In reply to warning, this is a big self-pity post, posted by Analine on May 14, 2002, at 1:30:21
Analine,
You know, one common side effect of antidepressants is that they tend to suppress the thyroid. This will then either exacerbate or create depression. Considering that the signs of low thyroid include both weight gain and depression, I'd suggest going back to the doctor and asking for a thyroid test.
I'd also suggest -- and this is from coming off of one recently myself -- going back on an AD. If you feel worthless, you may just need that extra boost right now.
Good luck,
Elisa
Posted by ST on May 14, 2002, at 4:26:06
In reply to warning, this is a big self-pity post, posted by Analine on May 14, 2002, at 1:30:21
OK...I'm getting that anger thing rising up in my throat when I hear about something a dumb doctor says to someone....
OK...I'm calm now. Ummm, yes, all ADs have side effects, but some are worse than others for certain people. Every one is different. Effexor was horrible for me, but is great for some. I am on Wellbutrin and after getting used to it, I have no side effects. Effexor gacve me more side effets than any AD I'd ever been on. Celexa was fantastic for my mood, but made me gain 30 lbs...So it's just a matter of being dilligent, not accepting anything less than a good life and demanding what you need from your doctor. Keep getting as much info as possible from the internet - we know what's best for ourselves and can often figure out what the best approach is to our care. Please get a psychiatrist. I feel that general doctors really have no business prescribing ADs because they are not as familiar with which drugs to prescribe, they usually don't follow up and they have no idea about dosage and...oooh....here I go again. Please find a psychiatrist.
Ther are many ADs out there. Not just SSRIs (like Prozac, Zoloft), but tricylic anti-depressants and other ADs that work on different chemicals in your brain and not just the seratonin levels. I'm no expert; most people on this board know far more about the intricacies of these drugs. But I know that I've been depressed for about 15 years. I first got on meds about 8 years ago and it's been uphill ever since. I've tried a lot of different meds, not all have worked for me, but I can say I'm doing so much better now.
Please don't give up on feeling the way you want to. Please get a good doc.
Good luck,
Sarah
Posted by Kat26 on May 14, 2002, at 9:17:08
In reply to Re: warning, this is a big self-pity post, posted by ST on May 14, 2002, at 4:26:06
Hello,
just my humble opinion, maybe you should try out what worked for your mum, since sometimes these things are genetic... I am also saying this because I have been on prozac for way over a year now and I am still one skinny thing (that is, no weight gain). :-) Of course, again, everybody is different, and I think there is no antidepressant that I haven't heard has caused somebody to gain weight, not even wellbutrin, even though it seems that is a good one for not gaining.
Lack of libido of course can be a poblem with ssris. Don't ask me, I am not very experienced with this. :-)Kat26
Posted by dave40252 on May 14, 2002, at 12:11:53
In reply to Re: warning, this is a big self-pity post, posted by ST on May 14, 2002, at 4:26:06
This may be true in general, but not always in practice. My GP saved my life. He was very well informed about AD's. He scheduled regular follow ups and tried to adjust my meds to find something that works without side effects. More importantly, he understood and actually seemed to care. After about a year and a half and various trials he suggested a referral to a pdoc because of their "superior" knowledge of AD's and his reluctance to combine many meds. My pdoc has absolutlely no hesitation in combining just about anything, but doesn't seem to remember who I am visit to visit, doesn't seem to really care much about side effects, etc. - so long as i am not suicidal everything else is just details - and a couple of times has made statements about meds that i know to be wrong. If she wasn't so completely willing to let me try anything i suggest, I'd be back to my GP in a flash : )
>>>Please get a psychiatrist. I feel that general doctors really have no business prescribing ADs because they are not as familiar with which drugs to prescribe, they usually don't follow up and they have no idea about dosage and...oooh....here I go again. Please find a psychiatrist.
Posted by katekite on May 14, 2002, at 14:34:36
In reply to warning, this is a big self-pity post, posted by Analine on May 14, 2002, at 1:30:21
This is what my therapist said to me on an issue kind of like this:
Exercise hard for at least 30 minutes 5 times a week. (That's right, five times, he said 3 times just keeps you the same, while 5 times leads to some improvement in fitness over a month or so).
And eat well every day. Cut out caffeine as completely as possible (taper). Take a vitamin every day. Cut out alcohol except maybe once a week as a treat. Eat salads and rice and protein and fresh foods and things you make yourself. Stay clear of garbage.
Get up and go to bed at a normal time and get enough sleep, ie at least 7 or 8 hrs every single night, more on weekends. Depends on age a little as older people need a little less, apparently.
Be nice to yourself. Take walks or drives or buy yourself flowers or a CD: reward yourself every day somehow for just doing what you normally would do. Practice relaxing because it takes practice to do it well drug free.
Practice talking deeply to friends or family or a therapist, whomever you trust. Tell them your concerns as much as you possibly can.
If you keep it up for 6 weeks and see no real improvement in how you feel, then consider meds.
The things that work to make us happy, confident etc, the levels of stress we can tolerate, the level of interaction with friends we want, the amount of relaxation or fun we need is going to be different on meds and off. Its going to vary in different ways on different meds.
He said if one isn't morbidly depressed, only not quite right, and one isn't doing all those above things, its not time to think about meds yet.
Now if you are already being good to your brain and body, and still feel not-quite-there, then see a true psychiatrist (as someone already mentioned). Also see a gynecologist (your name sounded feminine) to rule out hormonal issues, and get a routine blood panel with a thyroid check from your GP.
Regular doctors are not trained well enough to handle the brain. Sure, they can tell if someone is really totally depressed and can prescribe something, but they won't have any insight except stopping it or raising the dose if its not working. In your situation, for example, where you are sort of ok but also not happy with yourself a lot, maybe a baby dose of prozac will do the trick without causing sexual side effects. But a GP would never think of using a dose lower than "the effective dose" (never mind that the "effective dose" means the dose 'effective to cause a remission in a major depressive episode' which you likely don't have.)
To clarify, I don't think I could live without meds. I'm not against them in any way.
ok that was my shrink's two cents and my two cents, so that'll be four cents.
kate
Posted by pellmell on May 14, 2002, at 16:08:19
In reply to Re: warning, this is a big self-pity post, posted by katekite on May 14, 2002, at 14:34:36
Those life improvement suggestions are all well and good, but they require sufficent "willpower" and the feeling that you yourself are worth the effort. I have very little of either of those qualities when I'm depressed.
The challenge for me when the drugs lift my mood again is to do something positive for myself and not simply coast. It's very hard for me to improve my life when I'm on meds, but impossibly hard when I'm not.
But maybe you should take some time away from medication; I've gone off of drugs multiple times just to try to prove to myself that I could do without them. My failures have made me feel better about being on them, though I think that's due to the residue of the "pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps" tripe I was raised with. There is no baseline human brain chemistry. Do what will make your life better.
So to echo the other posters: try to find a pdoc, or even another GP. DON'T go back on Effexor. You know that particular drug isn't a good match for you; there's no good reason to repeat the experiment.
-pm
Posted by mair on May 14, 2002, at 16:28:34
In reply to warning, this is a big self-pity post, posted by Analine on May 14, 2002, at 1:30:21
Analine
I am in not position to say whether or not you're having a depressive episode that requires meds, although it seems to me that if they were working before, you probably were clinically depressed.
I, too, hated effexor, and didn't fare better on prozac, although that seems to work very well for tons of people. I take wellbutrin which is popular for its lack of sexual side effects and for the fact that in most people it doesn't cause weight gain. In fact, after going on it, I lost about 25 pounds although the loss was not dramatic - it just seemed to happen over a period of time.
Wellbutrin may not work for you at all, and it hasn't been wholly successful for me. However, it has made a difference, and after i had been on it for awhile, I couldn't figure out why my psychiatrist hadn't given it a try a lot sooner. Somehow he never got around to suggesting it until after I had taken myself off prozac, effexor, and luvox all either on account of the side effects or because they just didn't work.
Good Luck
Mair
Posted by Analine on May 14, 2002, at 18:54:22
In reply to warning, this is a big self-pity post, posted by Analine on May 14, 2002, at 1:30:21
Hi everyone,
Thanks so much to all the people that replied, there was lots of good advice and kind words. It was so nice to feel listened to, it helps so much to be able to pour my heart out to people that understand.
I'm still not sure what I'm going to do. I think at least I should get another opinion (off SOMEBODY). My mother said to me yesterday that maybe I'm naturally this fat...hmm...extra 15kg in a year I don't think so.
Anyway, thankyou thankyou thankyou for making me feel like a real valid person. I was scared somebody was going to laugh at me or tell me to go away but you guys were so lovely and caring and kind.
ana
xxx
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 15, 2002, at 14:27:44
In reply to Re: warning, this is a big self-pity post, posted by bookgurl99 on May 14, 2002, at 3:50:23
Elisa,
By ADs, do you mean all of them, or lithium in particular? I have low thyroid and, while I'm aware of many things suppressing it (lithium, soy products, flouride), I've never heard that ADs in general do so. I'd be interested in hearing more about this. BarbaraCat>
> You know, one common side effect of antidepressants is that they tend to suppress the thyroid. This will then either exacerbate or create depression. Considering that the signs of low thyroid include both weight gain and depression, I'd suggest going back to the doctor and asking for a thyroid test.
>
> I'd also suggest -- and this is from coming off of one recently myself -- going back on an AD. If you feel worthless, you may just need that extra boost right now.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Elisa
Posted by ST on May 16, 2002, at 4:43:37
In reply to Re: warning, this is a big self-pity post, posted by Analine on May 14, 2002, at 18:54:22
This is the end of the thread.
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