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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 29. Go back in thread:
Posted by katekite on May 3, 2002, at 21:26:05
In reply to Ugly.., posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 3, 2002, at 19:20:09
I'm sorry you are so disheartened about this. I wish I could help by saying I've been through this in the way you are going through it. I have had what is probably normal, extreme worry at extreme times (like before dates etc), and I try not to care too much.... but social anxiety I'm an expert at.
Your issue is hard, because what you have is a real thing.... you aren't just looking for attention (the way after a new haircut someone might say "my hair is so short", not asking for compliments...its not a minor thing for you. Plus its not something you talk about and be taken seriously: 'I'm worried I'm ugly' usually gets a laugh. (unless your brother were around). And unless you didn't mention it, you aren't anorexic meaning you have no physical part to things meaning no one knows what's going on inside you. And it sounds like it affects your social life. Its not like a passing worry about prom night. And even if you've mentioned it to someone they most likely will have said, 'oh everyone worries about looks, you're fine, you have nothing to worry about.' (which wouldn't feel true at all but its hard to argue with.)
Here's a link to a website that has information about this issue:There is also a book called The Broken Mirror, author named Katherine Philips, that might be helpful.
The good news is other people have gotten this type of thinking under control, either through therapy or with the help of medication. I think the most common medication used would be the ssris like Paxil, Luvox, Zoloft, which are all used for more than just depression.
I know it doesn't probably seem like the kind of thing one would go to a doctor over, but it is if its affecting your life to the point of avoiding going out on a date or with friends or if your brother's comments bother you as much as it sounds like they do. Its a vicious cycle if you are avoiding going places because then you are less used to hanging out with people and that in itself gets harder just from lack of practice. Plus friends get used to you saying no and then they don't ask as much.
Hope this helps a little. One does not have to be anorexic or have bulemia in order for negative self perception to keep you from enjoying life. Anything that is keeping you from enjoying life is something to find help for.
Please keep in mind I'm not a doctor or anything, I just happen to have had a wonderful (and awesome looking) college roomate who struggled for a while with something that sounds similar. I might be totally off base in what direction to point you....so take what I say with a grain of salt.
You did come to the right place though... keep looking around.
Hope it gets easier for you soon.
kate
Posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 3, 2002, at 21:48:33
In reply to Re: Ugly.., posted by katekite on May 3, 2002, at 21:26:05
Kate.. Thank you so much for Just listening and understanding and giving me some perspective on my situation.. No, Im not anorexic however I have lost alot of weight due to the depression and not wanting to eat BECAUSE of all the comments.. I know Im not overweight tho since Im 92 lbs.. What Hurts me and effects me is all the 'ugly' comments.. they have prevented me from having any kind of life.. WHY should I have to feel this way because of his comments? I dont how to deal with him, he doesnt take it seriously.. if I tell him calmy and maturely to please stop he'll come back with a remark along the lines of 'you are ugly tho Im Just telling you the truth'.. its not Just teasing either, its constantly in my mind now.. I'm afraid to even go to the grocery store cuz im so paranoid that ppl are staring at how 'ugly' I am.. I was on Zoloft for awhile and paxil but medication doesnt Stop his comments or make them hurt any less.. I've tried talking to my mom 2 and making her realize how serious it is and she either dismisses it or will say something rude like 'well not everyone has looks' reinforcing it.. Im so sick of living this way.. Can you give me some advice on how to make them stop?
Posted by vicky on May 4, 2002, at 0:45:26
In reply to Re: Ugly.., posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 3, 2002, at 21:48:33
> Kate.. Thank you so much for Just listening and understanding and giving me some perspective on my situation.. No, Im not anorexic however I have lost alot of weight due to the depression and not wanting to eat BECAUSE of all the comments.. I know Im not overweight tho since Im 92 lbs.. What Hurts me and effects me is all the 'ugly' comments.. they have prevented me from having any kind of life.. WHY should I have to feel this way because of his comments? I dont how to deal with him, he doesnt take it seriously.. if I tell him calmy and maturely to please stop he'll come back with a remark along the lines of 'you are ugly tho Im Just telling you the truth'.. its not Just teasing either, its constantly in my mind now.. I'm afraid to even go to the grocery store cuz im so paranoid that ppl are staring at how 'ugly' I am.. I was on Zoloft for awhile and paxil but medication doesnt Stop his comments or make them hurt any less.. I've tried talking to my mom 2 and making her realize how serious it is and she either dismisses it or will say something rude like 'well not everyone has looks' reinforcing it.. Im so sick of living this way.. Can you give me some advice on how to make them stop?
I felt the same way when I was in my 20's UGLY
and thought everyone was staring at me because I was so.
Your family sounds very mean, and I would stay away
from them if you can or get family counselling!!
from what you said, THEY have the real problem,
and sound sadistic. Now I am in my 40's and I guess
i have grown out of that feeling ugly stage. I feel
the most confident of my appearance then I ever
did in my 20's. (I think my medication has alot to
do with it) Prozac, welbutrin, buspar, and perphenazine...
a very good cocktail, and ego booster!!!
Posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 4, 2002, at 2:06:46
In reply to Re: Ugly.., posted by vicky on May 4, 2002, at 0:45:26
What helped you from feeling that way or accepting yourself? I cant stay away from them or I would.. Im living here now so its impossible to avoid him.. he gets in my face or will make a random comment about it.. So did people actually tell you that your 'ugly' or did you just FEEL that way??? See, Im in a different place where I have him telling me that I am like its a fact.. I've said looks are an opinion and he'll be like No you are ugly and keep going when I break down and cry.. I think They have the problem to be so Cruel.. but I want to know what I can do to feel better despite them.
Posted by Phil on May 4, 2002, at 6:33:55
In reply to Re: Ugly.., posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 4, 2002, at 2:06:46
There's a lot of definitions to ugly and you ain't it, your family sure seems to be.
It's hard to realize when depressed and coming from that background, but nobody can make us feel one way or the other. We can choose to rise above it and choose to ignore it. Try to totally ignore the comments and just put a sort of content neutral look on your face if you can do it. They say that because they have the problem, not you. Rise above it, find people who see you as a beautiful person.
Beauty, more often than not, has little to do with our outside wrapper. It comes from inside.
Posted by Guy on May 4, 2002, at 9:38:52
In reply to Ugly.., posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 3, 2002, at 19:20:09
Why don't you print off the comments in this string and show them to your family? Perhaps they will see themselves in a new light.
Posted by Automated Lady on May 4, 2002, at 11:14:31
In reply to Ugly.., posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 3, 2002, at 19:20:09
I went through (and still go through sometimes) a similar thing. When i was 20 (I.m 24 now) I never went out because I felt so ugly and fat, and missed out on a lot of things. The good news is that it did slowly get better, and I have a far better social life now than I have had since the age of 18.
I was told I was ugly at school and just held on to it, even though I had people telling me it wasn't true. it must be so much harder for you when you actually have people who should have your best interests at heart telling you damaging things. The sad thing is that they don't seem to have your best interests at heart, they seem to have problems of their own. I think you'll have to keep telling yourself that. When they say these things to you it's about problems THEY have. I don't believe for a second you're ugly (you have to try and remember the good things people have said about you as much as the bad - something I find hard to do!).
All the best A x
Posted by cmcdougall on May 4, 2002, at 12:10:02
In reply to Re: Ugly.. » LiLAngelJenna, posted by sid on May 3, 2002, at 20:38:01
Posted by IsoM on May 4, 2002, at 12:27:55
In reply to Ugly.., posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 3, 2002, at 19:20:09
Jenna, it's your family that's ugly - ugly inside where it really matters. How anyone could be so cruel as to tell a family member that they're ugly, is horrible.
Your mom & brother (especially HIM) must be very sick themselves to try to inflict their sickness on you by such comments. Perhaps if you view them as the sick ones in need of help, you'll feel better about yourself.
I have a dear friend (our hearts & souls are connected) for over 30 years now. Over the years, she's become very overweight (she was bulimic as a child & teenager with domineering parents). But to me, she's still the most beautiful person I know. I adore her & I only notice she's overweight when I pull back & see her with unbiased eyes. Beauty truly is from the inside out.
Still stating that, I highly doubt you're ugly. I can honestly say I've only met a few really ugly people in my life from a distance & didn't get to know what they were really like. I think that the best way to deal with your brother is to ignore his comments & don't even respond to them. Don't cry or yell, or anything. If they hurt badly, don't let him see your reaction. Perhaps, express your pain by writing it down & then ripping it up rather than let him know how it's affecting you. Without fuel, the fire will go out - without a reaction from you, he'll give up sometime.
It sounds like he's trying to express how he feels about himself by reflecting it on you. He's obviously unhappy about himself & wants you to feel miserable too.
Jenna, I look at other young people around me at work & honestly, I see so much beauty in them. It's not their make-up, clothes, or physical features, but the animation in their faces, theri eyes when laughing & smiling, their sweetness & innocence yet of the enormity of this world's problems. I'm quite sure YOU are beautiful!
Posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 4, 2002, at 16:34:53
In reply to Re: Ugly? I Highly Doubt It... » LiLAngelJenna, posted by IsoM on May 4, 2002, at 12:27:55
Thank you soo much guys, I appreciate it greatly.. Your kind words definately have as much affect as his negative ones.. its Nice to know that there are good people out there that will bring you up, Not down. Maybe it is his own securitys and he knows I used to be happy with my looks because friends and other people have told me.. So I will try to hold onto that.
Posted by vicky on May 4, 2002, at 17:23:54
In reply to Re: Ugly.., posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 4, 2002, at 2:06:46
> What helped you from feeling that way or accepting yourself? I cant stay away from them or I would.. Im living here now so its impossible to avoid him.. he gets in my face or will make a random comment about it.. So did people actually tell you that your 'ugly' or did you just FEEL that way??? See, Im in a different place where I have him telling me that I am like its a fact.. I've said looks are an opinion and he'll be like No you are ugly and keep going when I break down and cry.. I think They have the problem to be so Cruel.. but I want to know what I can do to feel better despite them.
hi lil jenna. People at school did call me ugly although some said
I was quite cute!! I believed the latter, and felt
that yes, I was actually very ugly. Thus I was
very paranoid, and angry, and kept to myself alot
I found that as you grow older, you become less
sensitive to callous remarks (the meds help a great deal)
How old is your brother. He sounds like he is
very mean and unhappy.It also sounds like
he needs to be on some kind of medication for
his anger that he is taking out on you!!!
Talk to a therapist, or you pscyh doctor and try to get
the family to get into family counselling!!
most of all remember it won't always be this
way. Seasons change, and time marches on.
Posted by sid on May 4, 2002, at 17:36:31
In reply to Sid I think you are SUPER NICE and a good person (nm) » sid, posted by cmcdougall on May 4, 2002, at 12:10:02
Posted by sid on May 4, 2002, at 17:50:40
In reply to Ugly.., posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 3, 2002, at 19:20:09
I'm glad we could be of help.
Now go do some living, and do not waste your thoughts and your energy on people who try to hurt you.
You need to stay at home for a while, that's fine, but then you should perhaps find some outside support too. You found some here, now try and see if you can't find some in everyday life (i.e. not just online) - support group, activity group, volunteering with others, etc... So you can have many experiences and not focus so much on the negative at home.
Don't ever think again of ending your life because of this problem. As many people wrote, your family is the one that's problematic, not you. They should love and nurture you, and for some reason that we don't know about, they treat you badly. That's not your fault.
Good luck!- sid
Posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 4, 2002, at 18:06:59
In reply to Re: Ugly.., posted by vicky on May 4, 2002, at 17:23:54
Heyy Vicky.. My brothers 16 and I would think that by this age he would know how to treat ppl. Never would I call anyone that No matter what.. And he has been in Anger managment classes before for other things but stopped taking them cuz he acted out in them too.. he is disrepectful to everyone, but how do I know he doesnt mean what he says about me? He laughs when Im crying and at my pain which leads me to believe he is angry himself but he has No right to take it out on me..Thanks for your wonderful advice, it helps knowing that I wont feel like this forever and theres hope for it to get better.
Posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 4, 2002, at 18:45:31
In reply to Re: Ugly.., posted by Guy on May 4, 2002, at 9:38:52
I was going to do that but I already know what the reaction will be.. he said 'anyone on the internet is fucked up and 1000 lbs so they dont know sh*t'But maybe it will get my mom to see things differently
Posted by omega man on May 5, 2002, at 5:15:23
In reply to Ugly.., posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 3, 2002, at 19:20:09
its true there is a certain human idea of what is attrictive and some of us get a raw deal...
look on the good side you're going to weed out all the people who just want relationships based on looks...
the love of my life was considered ugly by everyone ...theres a certain beauty of the soul in her ugliness ..a certain strangeness that drew an abstract person like me to her...
I found that being good looking by everyday standards created such pressure I needed someone who was physically offputting visally to others to take away the pressure when out and about..
I loved my girlfriends ugliness....strange but true..
as for those people who criticize you..I bet they criticize everything anyway...or think in very definite terms ..are you from a jewish or muslim family ?..sounds like a mentally abusive scenario or maybe they just don't know any better and have no idea the effect they have on you..
you sound very strong but sometimes you need to...run away..believe me the world may be a hard place but its probaly a holiday compared to a day with your family ....
Some families are tough brained by genetics..or culture..I just had to get out myself...save become like them..
live well and be happy..whatever you have to do..
Posted by ST on May 5, 2002, at 6:17:21
In reply to Re: Ugly.., posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 4, 2002, at 18:06:59
I want you to know that your brother is being fueled by your insecurities. It sounds dumb and trite, but the changes need to begin with you, not him. You need to find a reason to feel good about yourself and slowly, slowly, slowly what he says will begin to sound foolish. You are being kept in an environment that is simply pushing you further and further down. It would be great if you could have a heart to heart talk with your mom and request that she exert some authority over what kind of crap is being said in her home. She may not realize how devastating your brother's comments are due to her own life-long hang ups. Your brother has some serious issues and is making himself feel better by putting you in your place.
What are you good at? Find it and start doing it -a lot. Also, maybe start to exercise if you don't already. Moving your body every day will give you so much confidence about how you move and feel and eventually how you look. Yoga is great for this. Or if you could take a dance class (not ballet or anything with a strict form) that would be great for you.
I was called ugly over and over and over and over till...I don't even remember when it stopped. It stopped mattering and I knew those people were wrong at SOME point - I don't remember when - and so their comments eventually stopped.
I'm in a business where my looks are evaluated and discussed on a daily basis. I'm an actress. I'm telling you, I used to be OBSESSED with how I looked. People told me I was ugly, so that's all I thought about. Now that everyone else is obsessed with how I look (agents, managers, casting directors, directors, makeup artists, lighting designers, photographers), I'M not obsessed. Hey, a few days ago, I was refused an audition because I am "not beautiful". They didn't say "ugly", but it still hurt. But it really doesn't matter, actually. I feel good about myself. Anyway, I'm jumping ahead about ten spaces. You're at the point where you probably just want to crawl in to a hole and die because you feel repulsive. It will get better. Find what makes you special. You ARE special. There IS something about you. Find it. Your brother hasn't found it in himself yet and this is why he acts this way.
Good luck,
SarahPS: I ended up getting a nose job about 7 years ago....I'm not suggesting getting plastic surgery. But the funny thing is, I'm no "prettier" now than I used to be. I feel pretty and good about myself and my body NOT because of the plastic surgery, but because of other things. I actually had gotten to a point where I truly and honestly felt OK about my nose and my looks. So when I got the nose job, I wasn't expecting it to make me beautiful or different or something. I just simply have a smaller nose now. The rest was already in place. I don't know if this info hurts or helps...but there it is!
Posted by katekite on May 5, 2002, at 10:22:21
In reply to Re: Ugly.., posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 4, 2002, at 18:06:59
I'm glad you are finding us helpful.
Your brother being 16, I have to say, is about the worst age he could be, because he's old enough where he can think of really witty things to say and old enough where he can control what he says around his friends and people he wants to like him. At the same time, the 'stupid kid' is still in there and his sister is the easiest person to take out all his insecurities on. Beating you up emotionally makes him feel smart and good looking. Its the very essence of a bully.But the point here is not so much that he's insecure and being mean, as that you are in control here. I saw a sign once that said, 'they only control us if they make us angry'. So the ticket out with your brother is to learn to make a distinction between what he says and what the truth is. One trap is getting caught up in caring what the outcome is, like thinking, well next time I will say 'that is immature' (or something else).... because you can't control for what his reaction is, and he will often come up with some witty remark that makes you feel terrible. And he knows you care.... otherwise he wouldn't have chosen this topic to upset you on. You're not going to be able to convince him of anything. Not that he's mean, not that anything. But if you accept that he is mean in this area, that for whatever reason his sick 16 year old head just does this, if you can accept that he may always be like this, forever... then you can start to believe in yourself. It won't get easy, but it might get easier. I'm not suggesting forgiving him -- its pretty unforgivable.
One other thing that I probably shouldn't even suggest is the concept of an open and predisclosed consequence. For example, you could tell him that it really hurts you when he makes comments about your looks, sarcastic or nasty comments hurt you, and that you have asked him many times to stop and he apparently won't. That to you every time he says something it is like he is breaking a piece of you. That you know he probably doesn't understand but that from now on there will be a consequence every time he says something mean, in fact every time he even mentions your looks. What would he be comfortable with the consequence being? He will argue that there should be no consequence for the truth, etc, that its a free country etc.... You can argue back that in this house there are certain rules you all follow to live together peacefully and you are about to make one, whether he likes it or not. For example, every time he makes a comment you could respond by breaking a CD of his. Or something he values equally.
That could really escalate things, you might want to really get your mom on your side before hand, or might not want to do it at all if it seems like he would just go break all your possessions. Depends on how out of control he is. A nice person would at this point realize how upsetting their comments are and agree to some rules. At least I believe anyone with a shred of decency would.
Also, the only way to do this is if you can have the detachment of a parent in carrying out the consequence.... you can't do it outwardly happily or for revenge (although it will feel good), because the point is not to go back to a junior high frame of mind but to make a simple consequence for him that he can understand because he himself is not mature enough to understand without it.
I'm not sure what others on the board think about that? Will it backfire? Is something like that an option or will it escalate things?
kate
Posted by Ponder on May 5, 2002, at 12:03:47
In reply to Ugly.., posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 3, 2002, at 19:20:09
This is such an interesting topic. Depression changes our perceptions. Not just the way we FEEL about what we see, but what we actually see. I have a friend who has actually sought out plastic surgery twice while in severe depressive episodes (she didn't need it, in my opinion).
Feeling ugly and looking in the mirror where you THINK you are getting concrete verification, is just not reliable. You never look to others as you do yourself, and your own view of yourself is mercurial. Your family is not giving you any kind of useful or objective information; they're just BEING ugly.
One thing that helps me when I'm feeling down about my personal appearance is to look at people who are clearly not pretty in an objective sense, but who have achieved everything I might want in life through sheer confidence and force of personality (and hard work, etc.) Looks truly do not have to limit a person. Not even in America.
And, speaking of America, here's another suggestion. Watch foreign films. Seems like every country other than ours puts real-looking people in their movies. Hollywood seems bent on making the rest of us feel inadequate. Check out a darling little film called "Everybody's Famous". A heartwarmer and an example of how attitude changes the way a person looks.
Posted by omega man on May 5, 2002, at 12:09:48
In reply to Re: Ugly.., posted by ST on May 5, 2002, at 6:17:21
have you found ugliness a problem in relationships yourself ?
Posted by katekite on May 5, 2002, at 13:38:05
In reply to It will escalate » katekite, posted by IsoM on May 5, 2002, at 11:54:14
Probably right. I couldn't help but suggest it because I know if it was me it would feel so good to have a little internal revenge. But I think you're right.... best to try to rise above the whole thing and detach. -- kate
Posted by IsoM on May 5, 2002, at 14:50:04
In reply to Re: It will escalate, posted by katekite on May 5, 2002, at 13:38:05
Yeah, Kate, revenge does feel good. But long-term, it doesn't help. When I was a kid & my brother, 6 years older, used to beat me up, I'd go to his record collection, pull out random records, & scratch along the grooves so his records would be ruined. He had no idea of what was happening. I'd also go to his stamp collection & take out handsful of stamps & throw them in the fire in our wood stove. Thankfully, I've risen above that, but at the time, when I was so small & helpless, it sure felt good.
Posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 5, 2002, at 15:21:05
In reply to Re: Ugly.., posted by omega man on May 5, 2002, at 5:15:23
I've had to be more than strong for the things I've gone through in My life, otherwise I would'nt of made it this far.. his comments are Just fuel to the fire on top of everything eles.. and Yes he does critizize everything.. he'll make negative comments about anything.. even things like a commercial or someone in the store..or imitate the way ppl say something.. I've stopped trying to talk to him because all I get is laughed at cuz he thinks its all funny..Im not jewish either, I have picz on here..
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 5, 2002, at 16:02:16
In reply to Re: Ugly.., posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 5, 2002, at 15:21:05
> his comments are Just fuel to the fire on top of everything eles..
It's fine to discuss how to deal with him, but could that take place over at Psycho-Social Babble? Here's a link to make it easier:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020430/msgs/23138.html
I'd like this board to focus on medication, thanks.
Bob
PS: For the same reason, follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by mike84 on July 10, 2005, at 11:50:36
In reply to Ugly.., posted by LiLAngelJenna on May 3, 2002, at 19:20:09
It sounds like you are depressed... you should really go to a psychiatrist and get halp... I have the same problems..
This is the end of the thread.
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