![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Janelle on March 14, 2002, at 17:22:50
Thanks for any info on what Serzone is (or isn't!)
Posted by IsoM on March 14, 2002, at 18:05:03
In reply to Is Serzone an SSRI? If not what is it?! Thanks, posted by Janelle on March 14, 2002, at 17:22:50
It's not so much an SSRI as an SNRI (sustained norepinephrine uptake inhibitor).
Here's a site with some easy to understand info on it:
http://www.healthyplace.com/medications/nefazodone.htm
Posted by djmmm on March 14, 2002, at 21:04:38
In reply to Re: Is Serzone an SSRI? If not what is it?! Thanks » Janelle, posted by IsoM on March 14, 2002, at 18:05:03
> It's not so much an SSRI as an SNRI (sustained norepinephrine uptake inhibitor).
>
> Here's a site with some easy to understand info on it:
> http://www.healthyplace.com/medications/nefazodone.htm
Posted by Ritch on March 14, 2002, at 22:39:17
In reply to Is Serzone an SSRI? If not what is it?! Thanks, posted by Janelle on March 14, 2002, at 17:22:50
> Thanks for any info on what Serzone is (or isn't!)
It is an SSRI that also blocks (antagonizes) the serotonin 5-HT2a receptors (which tends to reduce some of the common SSRI side effects-less headache, nausea/diarrhea, sexual dysfunction). It also blocks norepinephrine reuptake as well, but very mildly.
Mitch
Posted by JohnX2 on March 14, 2002, at 22:41:40
In reply to Is Serzone an SSRI? If not what is it?! Thanks, posted by Janelle on March 14, 2002, at 17:22:50
> Thanks for any info on what Serzone is (or isn't!)
Hi Janelle,
Serzone has many actions. It is very atypical.
Serzone is a mild serotonin reuptake inhibitor.
Also, it blocks, i.e. gets in the way of serotonin activating, a particular serotonin receptor (5ht-2a) that people think is linked to anxiety and depression. A lot of the other anti-depressants, SSRIs, overtime will try to "downregulte" or desensitize (reduce the number of these types of receptors) to give an anti-depressant effect. This trick in Serzone is just a quicker way to achieve the effect. It also helps to avoid some side effects. Most atypical anti-psychotics like Zyprexa also do the same thing (block this receptor).
Serzone also blocks the reuptake of noradrenaline (norepinephrine). Norepinephrine is a stimulating chemical in general.
It mildly blocks a particular norepinephrine receptor as a side effect (the alpha-1), which may lead to a bit of fatigue for some people.
For many people the norepinpherine reuptake inhibiting property offsets this, so no side effect.-John
Posted by Janelle on March 15, 2002, at 0:28:22
In reply to Re: Is Serzone an SSRI? If not what is it?! Thanks » Janelle, posted by JohnX2 on March 14, 2002, at 22:41:40
Is blocking the reuptake of something (let's say serotonin) the same thing as blocking a particular receptor (say 5ht-2a)? I'm getting confused because ...
You said that Serzone is a mild serotonin reuptake inhibitor, a concept I'm familar with.
You also said that Serzone blocks, i.e. gets in the way of serotonin activating, a particular serotonin receptor (5ht-2a) that people think is linked to anxiety and depression.
And you said that most atypical anti-psychotics like Zyprexa also do the same thing (block this receptor), that Serzone also blocks the reuptake of noradrenaline (norepinephrine) and that Serzone mildly blocks a particular norepinephrine receptor as a side effect (the alpha-1), which may lead to a bit of fatigue for some people but for many people the norepinpherine reuptake inhibiting property offsets this, so no side effect.
I'm not quite getting the difference between blocking the reuptake of a neurotransmitter (like Serotonin) and blocking an actual receptor - could you explain the difference if there is one? Thanks!
-Janelle
Posted by JohnX2 on March 15, 2002, at 1:08:51
In reply to JOHNX2 - question about your info here: » JohnX2, posted by Janelle on March 15, 2002, at 0:28:22
> Is blocking the reuptake of something (let's say serotonin) the same thing as blocking a particular receptor (say 5ht-2a)? I'm getting confused because ...
>I think the word "block" is being generically used to describe various mechanisms that are being inhibited.
> You said that Serzone is a mild serotonin reuptake inhibitor, a concept I'm familar with.
>
> You also said that Serzone blocks, i.e. gets in the way of serotonin activating, a particular serotonin receptor (5ht-2a) that people think is linked to anxiety and depression.
>
> And you said that most atypical anti-psychotics like Zyprexa also do the same thing (block this receptor), that Serzone also blocks the reuptake of noradrenaline (norepinephrine) and that Serzone mildly blocks a particular norepinephrine receptor as a side effect (the alpha-1), which may lead to a bit of fatigue for some people but for many people the norepinpherine reuptake inhibiting property offsets this, so no side effect.
>
> I'm not quite getting the difference between blocking the reuptake of a neurotransmitter (like Serotonin) and blocking an actual receptor - could you explain the difference if there is one? Thanks!
> -JanelleYou should dig around the internet, there probably are good web sites with pictures I don't have any links handy. This is pretty complicated if you don't have a good science background.
There is a sending neuron. I'll call it A.
There is a receiveing neuron. I'll call it B.The neuron may send a different type of chemical (serotonin,norepinephrine,dopamine,acetycholine,etc).
Serotonin example:
A will release serotonin to B.
Various "receptors" at B will recognize the serotonin that A sent it and process it (kind of like sending a message). There are different types of receptor subclasses that interpret the serotonin at B. 5ht-1, 5ht-2,....
Neuron A only can manufacture a certain amount of serotonin, so it wants it's serotonin back after B has looked at it. This is what a "reuptake pump" does; it give the serotonin back to A. It just sits there and returns the serotonin to A from B. If we sort of slow down this reuptake pump (reuptake inhibitor), then maybe those receptors at B have more time to look at that serotonin.
One of those receptors at B is the 5ht-2a receptor. This receptor does different things when serotonin is sitting on it. Some of those things aren't so nice. So we like to have a widget that sits on top of that 5ht-2a receptor at B and says "scat" to the serotonin.
For the serzone at the norepinephrine site,
There is something sitting on the alpha-1 receptor blocking some norepinephrine, but at the same time the reuptake inhibitor is causing more norepinephrine to "hang around" at the receiving neuron. Maybe they offset each other, maybe they don't.
Got it?
-John
Posted by Janelle on March 15, 2002, at 2:07:58
In reply to Re: JOHNX2 - question about your info here: » Janelle, posted by JohnX2 on March 15, 2002, at 1:08:51
Thank you a million for taking the time and having the patience to break down the reuptake, blocking situation for me in plain English. I basically got it except for one little part:
Regarding the Serotonin aspect - you said that one of the serotonin receptors at Neuron B is the 5ht-2a receptor. This receptor does different things when serotonin is sitting on it. Some of those things aren't so nice. So we like to have a widget that sits on top of that 5ht-2a receptor at B and says "scat" to the serotonin -- my question dangling now is what does the 5ht-2a receptor do that is "not so nice" and what is the widget that is on top of that receptor at B that tells the Serotonin to go away?!
Thanks ever so much, Janelle
Posted by JohnX2 on March 15, 2002, at 2:41:21
In reply to JOHNX2: wow, great explanation, more: » JohnX2, posted by Janelle on March 15, 2002, at 2:07:58
> Thank you a million for taking the time and having the patience to break down the reuptake, blocking situation for me in plain English. I basically got it except for one little part:
>
> Regarding the Serotonin aspect - you said that one of the serotonin receptors at Neuron B is the 5ht-2a receptor. This receptor does different things when serotonin is sitting on it. Some of those things aren't so nice. So we like to have a widget that sits on top of that 5ht-2a receptor at B and says "scat" to the serotonin -- my question dangling now is what does the 5ht-2a receptor do that is "not so nice" and what is the widget that is on top of that receptor at B that tells the Serotonin to go away?!
> Thanks ever so much, JanelleThe medicine sits on the receptor. It doesn't activate it though. Kind of like a key that was not cut for your door but fits in the lock.
I think mitch listed some things that are helped by blocking out this receptor (some side effects go away, like less sexual dysfunction).
Also some researchers believe that the receptor hinders the ability for genomic changes to take place that would enable a depression/anxiety to lift. There are many reasons why depression/anxiety may occur however. The brain is quite complex.
John
Posted by Janelle on March 15, 2002, at 2:46:45
In reply to Re: JOHNX2: wow, great explanation, more: » Janelle, posted by JohnX2 on March 15, 2002, at 2:41:21
... genomic changes?!
Posted by RhainyC on March 15, 2002, at 8:38:55
In reply to Re: JOHNX2: wow, great explanation, more: » Janelle, posted by JohnX2 on March 15, 2002, at 2:41:21
Posted by Denise528 on March 17, 2002, at 8:45:54
In reply to JOHNX2: wow, great explanation:NM (nm), posted by RhainyC on March 15, 2002, at 8:38:55
John,
At last I know the diference between blocking a receptor and a reuptake inhibitor, I'm glad Janelle raised the question. My question is if Serzone acts in the same way as Zyprexa by blocking the 5HT2A receptor and Zyprexa has helped me would Serzone do the same. The reason I ask is that this time round the only drug which has helped me has been Zyprexa (in the past SSRIs used to work), the thing is I am loathe to take it and only take it when I hit rock bottom because I am worried about the possibility of getting Tardis Dyskinia, therefore Serzone sounds like it could be a good substitute. Is this the case or doestn't it work like that?
Can you advise?
Denise
Posted by Zo on March 18, 2002, at 20:47:50
In reply to Re: JOHNX2: wow, great explanation:NM, posted by Denise528 on March 17, 2002, at 8:45:54
My experience on Zyprexa and Serzone could not have been more opposite. Serzone was a miserable f***ing fog for three months. Zyprexa was. . life!
Plus 50 lbs. so I had to stop, managed to put together another package. .
Good luck!
Zo
Posted by Denise528 on March 19, 2002, at 12:58:11
In reply to Re: JOHNX2: wow, great explanation:NM » Denise528, posted by Zo on March 18, 2002, at 20:47:50
Hi,
mm maybe I'll give Serzone a miss. Can I Ask what was the other package you found?
Posted by Zo on March 21, 2002, at 15:24:08
In reply to What are you on now - Zo?, posted by Denise528 on March 19, 2002, at 12:58:11
After trying everything else in the known world--and in combination too--the package that has held since
September and that wiped suicide from my mind:AM: 10mg Dex (occasionally 15)
225mg Effexor (was higher)
100mg Provigil
and organic coffee!PM: 250mg Lamictal (any more was too much)
(mood stabilzer, fab AD, deep sleep)
10mg Ativan (to fall asleep, otherwise I do not!)And for tough times, 1/2 a codeine tab breaks the cycle
Progesterone, CoEQ10, Glucosamine Sulfate, Magnesium Maleate, Folic Acid, Daily One, Calcium etc etc
Posted by denise528 on August 31, 2002, at 8:33:21
In reply to Re: JOHNX2: wow, great explanation:NM » Denise528, posted by Zo on March 18, 2002, at 20:47:50
> My experience on Zyprexa and Serzone could not have been more opposite. Serzone was a miserable f***ing fog for three months. Zyprexa was. . life!
>
> Plus 50 lbs. so I had to stop, managed to put together another package. .
>
> Good luck!
> Zo.
Posted by cybercafe on August 31, 2002, at 18:08:44
In reply to Cybercafe - Zo's thread re serzone vs Zyprexa, posted by denise528 on August 31, 2002, at 8:33:21
> > My experience on Zyprexa and Serzone could not have been more opposite. Serzone was a miserable f***ing fog for three months. Zyprexa was. . life!
hmmm.... sometimes a bit of a fog sounds like a pleasant prospect ...this zyprexa is giving me some prickly pains, ... hope it's temporary
Posted by denise528 on September 2, 2002, at 10:36:07
In reply to Re: Cybercafe - Zo's thread re serzone vs Zyprexa, posted by cybercafe on August 31, 2002, at 18:08:44
How much are you taking?
Denise
Posted by cybercafe on September 2, 2002, at 11:06:49
In reply to Re: Cybercafe - Zo's thread re serzone vs Zyprexa, posted by denise528 on September 2, 2002, at 10:36:07
> How much are you taking?
>
> Denise
5 mg
Posted by denise528 on September 2, 2002, at 12:23:30
In reply to Re: Cybercafe - Zo's thread re serzone vs Zyprexa, posted by cybercafe on September 2, 2002, at 11:06:49
Hi,
I know I shouldn't be advocating this but have you tried taking 10mg. 5mg calmed me down a bit but didn't do much for my depression. If I took 10mg late afternoon the next day I didn't feel depressed and the effects of this lasted for about 5 days so I didn't feel like I needed to take another one for 5 days.
Perhaps 5mg lifts your depression as well as the anxiety but if it doestn't then maybe with your doctors consent you should try 10mg just one day and see what happens.
Denise
Posted by cybercafe on September 2, 2002, at 17:44:27
In reply to Re: Cybercafe - Zo's thread re serzone vs Zyprexa, posted by denise528 on September 2, 2002, at 12:23:30
> I know I shouldn't be advocating this but have you tried taking 10mg. 5mg calmed me down a bit but didn't do much for my depression. If I took 10mg late afternoon the next day I didn't feel depressed and the effects of this lasted for about 5 days so I didn't feel like I needed to take another one for 5 days.
>
> Perhaps 5mg lifts your depression as well as the anxiety but if it doestn't then maybe with your doctors consent you should try 10mg just one day and see what happens.10 mg is a huge amount for someone whose not psychotic i think.... plus i find i'm getting dystonia and such from 5 mg, more than 2.5 mg ... so i'd be afraid how bad things would get if i went up to 10 mg
Posted by denise528 on September 3, 2002, at 4:37:29
In reply to Re: Cybercafe - Zo's thread re serzone vs Zyprexa, posted by cybercafe on September 2, 2002, at 17:44:27
Yes,
I guess you're right and I'd hate for your side effects to get even worse. However, I wastn't suggesting 10mg every day, I was suggesting 10mg every 5 or so days, wouldn't that be pretty much equivalant to taking 2.5mg every day?
Denise
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.