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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Panic_Attack on March 6, 2002, at 20:34:35
I started taking Serzone a few nights ago and I CANT SLEEP! Well ive had a sleeping problem since the cocaine overdose last St.Patricks Day. REMERON is the only thing that is strong enough to put me to sleep. Is it O.K. to take Serzone AND Remeron at night? Im currently at 25mg of Serzone {will up it to 50mg 2x's a day next week} and i take only 2 mg of remeron.... just to put me to sleep. Is that safe? Is Serzone even worth my worry? Will it help my anxiety/Panic attacks?
Posted by geno on March 6, 2002, at 21:10:36
In reply to SERZONE AND REMERON???, posted by Panic_Attack on March 6, 2002, at 20:34:35
serzone did squat for anxiety and sleep., made it worse, and experienced electical shocks, skin crawling feeling and nausea, at 100mg. at 50mg it was not bad, but as i uppedit, i felt fery weird. even when on remeron. I now read it may cause liver failure.
If you are looking for sleep meds, stick with one, remeron, or trazadone, although remeron is most potent sleep med due to histamine blockade, more than anyother med. Seroquel may be up there to due to dopamine blockade, and histamine blockade. acutally seroquel and remeron share similar properties. They both block d2 receptors, seroquel moresoe, block 5ht2a receptors, remeron moresoe, and histamine receptors, remeron so.
if yousuffer from anxiety and sleep disroder, these meds will help. my doc just added paxil to remeron to give me an added mood improvement. titration slowely.
Paxil is shown in the pdoc book to have the highest 5ht reuptake out of all the ssri's.im also on desipramine 25mg morning, xanax for axiety in the am and pm.
so what i have going here is 4 medications practically hitting numerous receptors sites.
First, desipramine is a high potent NE reuptake.
Second, xanax is a potent GABA binding medication, esp for panic and quick acting.
Third, we have paxil, a potent 5ht reuptake (seratonin)
Fourth we have remeron, a potent 5ht2a (seratonin) blockade, a potent histamine blockade, very slight dopamine blockade.I guess ill try this for a while and see how it works. titration of dosages may help via your doctor.
geno
Posted by beardedlady on March 7, 2002, at 6:13:19
In reply to SERZONE AND REMERON???, posted by Panic_Attack on March 6, 2002, at 20:34:35
Serzone is my drug of choice for my panic problem. And it is my ONLY drug.
But at 25 mg., Serzone is going to do squat. I went on it after a Trazodone/Xanax combo pooped out. Although Geno's experience says differently, our bodies respond to different things, so you shouldn't give up on this one just yet. Normally, good sleep returns after a full week of Serzone, but in order to get anti-anxiety effects of the med, you need to take 300 mg. (according to my doc). It doesn't work as an anti-depresessant until greater doses--375-600.
My anxiety is almost totally related to not sleeping, and Serzone has kept it at bay MOST of the time (with only occasional bouts of it when there's real stress--like having surgery or losing a loved one) for the last three years. But 25 mg. won't give you ANY indication at all.
I hope you are taking it before bed. It'll keep you from feeling groggy all day.
What Serzone does for me is calm my brain and keep me from having a panic attack at night before bed. It took about a week to begin to feel that it was working. At the full dose, I really don't have too many side effects. I gained a little weight, and it's hard to take off. But orgasms/libido are fine and dandy. Eyes are a little dry. Grogginess in the morning usually goes away.
I hope you will give it a couple of weeks--I understand that four(?) is the recommended time to see if an AD works? When I started Serzone, I was able to quit Xanax in three days, without any difficulties at all. I think it's good for panic problems.
I am down to 250 mg. and am trying to come off completely. I am slightly worried about the liver thing, but I'm going to have a blood liver panel done every two months or so to keep up on it BEFORE I get any symptoms!
bearded lady : )>
Posted by geno on March 7, 2002, at 21:07:48
In reply to Re: SERZONE AND REMERON??? » Panic_Attack, posted by beardedlady on March 7, 2002, at 6:13:19
remeron is clinicly proven better for insomnia anxiety, adjitation. Im not saying serzone is not, but in the pdoc books, serzone's main pathway of action is the 5-ht2 blockade, resulting in anti depressant, antianxiety. But also it blocks dopamine receptors d2 slighlty.
remeron has a very potent histamine blockade mechanism, and blocks 5-ht2 receptors a bit more than serzone. also slightly blocks dopamine receptors.
Iv used both. 50/100mg serzone did not make me sleepy but anxious. Remeron, at 30mg, im out like a light in 45minutes, could feel my anxiety and tension being released, and drift off nicely to sleep. And dreams are pleasant and vivid.
Just my opinion. Trazadone aslo has potential for sleep, but not as good as remeron.
Id say serquel and remeron would be top meds for anxiety and sleep. Though benzodiazapines still may bee needed depending on severety of anxiety, and how the gaba system is working. I like remeron 30mg xanax .5mg 3x a day. NO anixety at all. sleep like a baby.
geno
Posted by JohnX2 on March 7, 2002, at 21:24:15
In reply to Re: SERZONE AND REMERON???, posted by geno on March 7, 2002, at 21:07:48
Hi Geno,Serzone usually has about a 1+ week of lag time
to reach a sleep enhancing effect. A lot of
people feel a bit of start up anxiety. It can
be mitigated by titrating the dose up really
slowly. More annoying than Remeron, of course.
Technically this is caused because the Serzone
does not blockade the serotonin 5ht-2c receptor
and it needs to be downregulated.I've taken the medicine twice with this start
up anxiety and felt this and seen other people with the
same experience. I also sneaked in a small dose
of zyprexa one night and the anxiety went away.-John
> remeron is clinicly proven better for insomnia anxiety, adjitation. Im not saying serzone is not, but in the pdoc books, serzone's main pathway of action is the 5-ht2 blockade, resulting in anti depressant, antianxiety. But also it blocks dopamine receptors d2 slighlty.
>
> remeron has a very potent histamine blockade mechanism, and blocks 5-ht2 receptors a bit more than serzone. also slightly blocks dopamine receptors.
>
> Iv used both. 50/100mg serzone did not make me sleepy but anxious. Remeron, at 30mg, im out like a light in 45minutes, could feel my anxiety and tension being released, and drift off nicely to sleep. And dreams are pleasant and vivid.
>
> Just my opinion. Trazadone aslo has potential for sleep, but not as good as remeron.
>
> Id say serquel and remeron would be top meds for anxiety and sleep. Though benzodiazapines still may bee needed depending on severety of anxiety, and how the gaba system is working. I like remeron 30mg xanax .5mg 3x a day. NO anixety at all. sleep like a baby.
> geno
Posted by JohnX2 on March 8, 2002, at 1:50:14
In reply to Re: SERZONE AND REMERON??? » Panic_Attack, posted by beardedlady on March 7, 2002, at 6:13:19
Hi Beardy,Did you decide how you are going to approach
your insomnia post serzone?-John
> Serzone is my drug of choice for my panic problem. And it is my ONLY drug.
>
> But at 25 mg., Serzone is going to do squat. I went on it after a Trazodone/Xanax combo pooped out. Although Geno's experience says differently, our bodies respond to different things, so you shouldn't give up on this one just yet. Normally, good sleep returns after a full week of Serzone, but in order to get anti-anxiety effects of the med, you need to take 300 mg. (according to my doc). It doesn't work as an anti-depresessant until greater doses--375-600.
>
> My anxiety is almost totally related to not sleeping, and Serzone has kept it at bay MOST of the time (with only occasional bouts of it when there's real stress--like having surgery or losing a loved one) for the last three years. But 25 mg. won't give you ANY indication at all.
>
> I hope you are taking it before bed. It'll keep you from feeling groggy all day.
>
> What Serzone does for me is calm my brain and keep me from having a panic attack at night before bed. It took about a week to begin to feel that it was working. At the full dose, I really don't have too many side effects. I gained a little weight, and it's hard to take off. But orgasms/libido are fine and dandy. Eyes are a little dry. Grogginess in the morning usually goes away.
>
> I hope you will give it a couple of weeks--I understand that four(?) is the recommended time to see if an AD works? When I started Serzone, I was able to quit Xanax in three days, without any difficulties at all. I think it's good for panic problems.
>
> I am down to 250 mg. and am trying to come off completely. I am slightly worried about the liver thing, but I'm going to have a blood liver panel done every two months or so to keep up on it BEFORE I get any symptoms!
>
> bearded lady : )>
Posted by beardedlady on March 8, 2002, at 6:25:24
In reply to Re: SERZONE AND REMERON??? » beardedlady, posted by JohnX2 on March 8, 2002, at 1:50:14
John:
Nope. I had the liver panel; I'm good. I'm down to 250 mg. (from 300), and I've been taking a daily mega B complex. I've been sleeping pretty well--no sleeping pills, no anxiety. I feel kind of good--cheerful, which for me (I've never been cheerful a day in my life, though I used to always be "up"; maybe it was the 3 2-liter bottles of diet coke a day?) is rather refreshing.
I'm going to replace my nightly Tums with Cal-Max (just bought it cheap from eBay) as soon as it arrives (today, I hope). Next month, I reduce the Serzone a little more. It takes a long time for me to come off; I have to do it slowly, or my body notices that anxiety increase.
Everybody (every body) is so different that it's impossible to say what another's reaction would be to any med. It's helpful to know that your side effect isn't unusual or that it may go away. But it's almost impossible to predict what might work for you based on what's worked for others. And I think folks are reluctant (because they feel they're out of time) to give the meds the trial period they need to get into the blood and regulate. Unless the side effects are unbearable, I think the best advice that people can get from this site (which you've been telling folks all along) is: give it time to work.
My theory is that increased anxiety at the start of any med is almost like a "duh." Most people are just anxious to be trying a new med, again, or worried about bad side effects, again. I think the anxiety is the brain's natural reaction--just plain old fear! But then, every body is different.
Serzone is great for my anxiety/sleep disorder. I'd rather be on nothing, but I'd rather not be awake for several days in a row.
How is your happiness problem, John? Are you stoking it? Hope so!
beardy : )>
This is the end of the thread.
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