![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 22 to 46 of 46. Go back in thread:
Posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 3:23:39
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
Myth: Marijuana is a Dangerous Drug
Any discussion of marijuana should begin with the fact that there have been numerous official reports and studies, every one of which has concluded that marijuana poses no great risk to society and should not be criminalized. These include: the National Academy of Sciences’ “Analysis of Marijuana Policy”(1982); the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse (the Shafer Report) (1973); the Canadian Government’s Commission of Inquiry (Le Dain Report) (1970); the British Advisory Committee on Drug Dependency (Wooton Report) (1968); the La Guardia Report (1944); the Panama Canal Zone Military Investigations (1916-29); and Britain’s monumental Indian Hemp Drugs Commission (1893-4).
It is sometimes claimed that there is “new evidence” showing marijuana is more harmful than was thought in the sixties. In fact, the most recent studies have tended to confirm marijuana’s safety, refuting claims that it causes birth defects, brain damage, reduced testosterone, or increased drug abuse problems.
The current consensus is well stated in the 20th annual report of the California Research Advisory Panel (1990), which recommended that personal use and cultivation of marijuana be legalized: “An objective consideration of marijuana shows that it is responsible for less damage to society and the individual than are alcohol and cigarettes.”
References: The National Academy of Sciences report, “Marijuana and Health” (National Academy Press, 1982), remains the most useful overview of the health effects of marijuana, its major conclusions remaining largely unaffected by the last 10 years of research. Lovinger and Jones, The Marihuana Question (Dodd, Mead & Co., NY 1985), is the most exhaustive and fair-handed summary of the evidence against marijuana. Good, positive perspectives may be found in Lester Grinspoon’s Marihuana, the Forbidden Medicine (Yale Press, 1993) and Marihuana Reconsidered (Harvard U. Press 1971), which debunks many of the older anti-pot myths. See also Leo Hollister, “Health Aspects of Cannabis,” Pharmacological Reviews 38:1-20 (1986).
Posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 3:24:38
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
Myth: Marijuana is Harmless
Just as most experts agree that occasional or moderate use of marijuana is innocuous, they also agree that excessive use can be harmful. Research shows that the two major risks of excessive marijuana use are: (1) respiratory disease due to smoking and (2) accidental injuries due to impairment.
Marijuana and Smoking:
A recent survey by the Kaiser Permanente Center found that daily marijuana-only smokers have a 19% higher rate of respiratory complaints than non-smokers.1 These findings were not unexpected, since it has long been known that, aside from its psychoactive ingredients, marijuana smoke contains virtually the same toxic gases and carcinogenic tars as tobacco. Human studies have found that pot smokers suffer similar kinds of respiratory damage as tobacco smokers, putting them at greater risk of bronchitis, sore throat, respiratory inflammation and infections.2Although there has not been enough epidemiological work to settle the matter definitively, it is widely suspected that marijuana smoking causes cancer. Studies have found apparently pre-cancerous cell changes in pot smokers.3 Some cancer specialists have reported a higher-than-expected incidence of throat, neck and tongue cancer in younger, marijuana-only smokers.4 A couple of cases have been fatal. While it has not been conclusively proven that marijuana smoking causes lung cancer, the evidence is highly suggestive. According to Dr. Donald Tashkin of UCLA, the leading expert on marijuana smoking:5
“Although more information is certainly needed, sufficient data have already been accumulated concerning the health effects of marijuana to warrant counseling by physicians against the smoking of marijuana as an important hazard to health.”
Fortunately, the hazards of marijuana smoking can be reduced by various strategies: (1) use of higher-potency cannabis, which can be smoked in smaller quantities, (2) use of waterpipes and other smoke reduction technologies,6 and (3) ingesting pot orally instead of smoking it.
Footnotes
1. Michael R. Polen et al. “Health Care Use by Frequent Marijuana Smokers Who Do Not Smoke Tobacco,” Western Journal of Medicine 158 #6: 596-601 (June 1993).
2. Donald Tashkin, “Is Frequent Marijuana Smoking Hazardous To Health?” Western Journal of Medicine 158 #6: 635-7 (June 1993).
3. D. Tashkin et al, “Effects of Habitual Use of Marijuana and/or Cocaine on the Lung,” in Research Findings on Smoking of Abused Substances, NIDA Research Monograph 99 (1990).
4. Paul Donald, “Advanced malignancy in the young marijuana smoker,” Adv Exp Med Biol 288:33-56 (1991); FM Taylor, “Marijuana as a potential respiratory tract carcinogen,” South Med Journal 81:1213-6 (1988).
5. D. Tashkin, “Is Frequent Marijuana Smoking Hazardous To Health,?” op. cit.
6. Nicholas Cozzi, “Effects of Water Filtration on Marijuana Smoke: A Literature Review,” MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) newsletter, Vol. IV #2 (1993) (Reprints available from MAPS and Cal. NORML).
Posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 3:26:04
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
Myth: One Joint Equals One Pack (or 16, or maybe just 4) Cigarettes
Some critics exaggerate the dangers of marijuana smoking by fallaciously citing a study by Dr. Tashkin which found that daily pot smokers experienced a “mild but significant” increase in airflow resistance in the large airways greater than that seen in persons smoking 16 cigarettes per day.1 What they ignore is that the same study examined other, more important aspects of lung health, in which marijuana smokers did much better than tobacco smokers. Dr. Tashkin himself disavows the notion that one joint equals 16 cigarettes.
A more widely accepted estimate is that marijuana smokers consume four times as much carcinogenic tar as cigarettes smokers per weight smoked.2 This does not necessarily mean that one joint equals four cigarettes, since joints usually weigh less. In fact, the average joint has been estimated to contain 0.4 grams of pot, a bit less than one-half the weight of a cigarette, making one joint equal to two cigarettes (actually, joint sizes range from cigar-sized spliffs smoked by Rastas, to very fine sinsemilla joints weighing as little as 0.2 grams). It should be noted that there is no exact equivalency between tobacco and marijuana smoking, because they affect different parts of the respiratory tract differently: whereas tobacco tends to penetrate to the smaller, peripheral passageways of the lungs, pot tends to concentrate on the larger, central passageways.3 One consequence of this is that pot, unlike tobacco, does not appear to cause emphysema.
Footnotes
1. D. Tashkin, “Respiratory Status of 74 Habitual Marijuana Smokers,” Chest 78 #5: 699-706 (Nov. 1980).
2. T-C. Wu, D. Tashkin, B. Djahed and J.E. Rose, “Pulmonary hazards of smoking marijuana as compared with tobacco,” New England Journal of Medicine 318: 347-51 (1988).
3. Donald Tashkin et al, “Effects of Habitual Use of Marijuana and/or Cocaine on the Lung,” loc.cit.
Posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 3:28:50
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
Myth: Marijuana Causes Sterility and Lowers Testosterone
Government experts also concede that pot has no permanent effect on the male or female reproductive systems.1 A few studies have suggested that heavy marijuana use may have a reversible, suppressive effect on male testicular function.2 A recent study by Dr. Robert Block has refuted earlier research suggesting that pot lowers testosterone or other sex hormones in men or women.3 In contrast, heavy alcohol drinking is known to lower testosterone levels and cause impotence. A couple of lab studies indicated that very heavy marijuana smoking might lower sperm counts. However, surveys of chronic smokers have turned up no indication of infertility or other abnormalities.
Less is known about the effects of cannabis on human females. Some animal studies suggest that pot might temporarily lower fertility or increase the risk of fetal loss, but this evidence is of dubious relevance to humans.4 One human study suggested that pot may mildly disrupt ovulation. It is possible that adolescents are peculiarly vulnerable to hormonal disruptions from pot. However, not a single case of impaired fertility has ever been observed in humans of either sex.
Footnotes
1. Dr. Christine Hartel, loc. cit.
2. NAS Report, pp. 94-9.
3. Dr. Robert Block in Drug and Alcohol Dependence 28: 121-8 (1991).
4. NAS Report, p. 97-8.
Posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 3:30:56
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
Myth: Marijuana Leads to Harder Drugs
There is no scientific evidence for the theory that marijuana is a “gateway” drug. The cannabis-using cultures in Asia, the Middle East, Africa and Latin America show no propensity for other drugs. The gateway theory took hold in the sixties, when marijuana became the leading new recreational drug. It was refuted by events in the eighties, when cocaine abuse exploded at the same time marijuana use declined.
As we have seen, there is evidence that cannabis may substitute for alcohol and other “hard” drugs. A recent survey by Dr. Patricia Morgan of the University of California at Berekeley found that a significant number of pot smokers and dealers switched to methamphetamine “ice” when Hawaii’s marijuana eradication program created a shortage of pot.1 Dr. Morgan noted a similar phenomenon in California, where cocaine use soared in the wake of the CAMP helicopter eradication campaign.
The one way in which marijuana does lead to other drugs is through its illegality: persons who deal in marijuana are likely to deal in other illicit drugs as well.
Footnote
1. “Survey: Hawaii war on pot pushed users to ‘ice,’“ Honolulu Advertiser, April 1, 1994 p. 1.
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 29, 2001, at 8:31:31
In reply to Re: Personal Note on Harmful Chemical Use, posted by Natg on January 29, 2001, at 0:42:21
Yup, People die from drug abuse. But not from marajuana "abuse". natg - you say your husband uses Meth and Heroin... both are addictive dangerous drugs. But neither are marajuana are they??
Nope!!!
I habve been smoking weed for 10+ years, and I am not addicted to any other drug. I have never used heroin or crack, and lead a nice enough life thanks.
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 29, 2001, at 8:33:53
In reply to Myth: Marijuana Leads to Harder Drugs, posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 3:30:56
Well saqid on all those points james.
I too ahve spoken to a number of docs and pdocs regarding marajuana use, and all say that it is fine. One expressed he would ahve concern if I were to be smoking, say, 2 ounces a week, but I don't!!
I like the way in a discussion on the use of marajuana people are jumping in with "well, xxx is dying of using meth". Fine, meth is a highly dangerous drung, but it aint marajuana.
If I were to start a thread on the dirnking of coffee and is it safe, would people jump in saying "But xxx died from drinking whisky"?? I doubt it!
Hmmmph!
Posted by PatJ. on January 29, 2001, at 10:15:37
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
To Whom It May Concern,
I guess some of us can agree to disagree on the subject but there is overwhelming proof in my posts. As you go on living your life your experiences will tell how you fare and I hope you fare well but if you must use harmful chemicals I fear for you. My experiences are reality and backed up by a mountain of evidence and I believe the researchers are all ethical and objective and not biased. As I mentioned before a person will justify his or her use of something that is harmful and protect it because he or she is addicted or just has to have it and it is called denial. I, too, was in denial for years! :)Denial is a smoke screen that hides the truth from the person who is in it. It is natural and often very strong-it is a blinder. Often he or she is afraid to quit because he or she does not know what else to do or thinks life will not be as good without it-well, I have good news-it will be 100% better. :) I have also seen the horrors of harmful drug abuse first hand. Been there, done that and all I can say is no thank you to that crap. When you have to have a harmful substance you are not free and it is controlling you. Would you eat rat poison if you got high on it and say it was a good buzz? Well, you are doing the same thing with the harmful drugs but it kills slower. I have posted educational things that are highly substantiated. There are many more reports that are not govt. funded but funded through charitable foundations. A few of my studies here are not govt. but the govt. is doing a good job, I must say. I see nothing wrong with the govt.and see that are working their tails off to save people. Look at the bibliography and see the hard facts in all of the research done-it does not lie and is not biased. If just one person who uses pot or other harmful substances will realize it is time to visit their local Narcotics Anonymous or AA or another chemical dependency treatment program or CD counselor it would be the best thing he or she has done for him/herself and the start of a much much much much improved life-guaranteed. You still will have problems, though, but you will know better how to handle them. My life has improved a whole lot. I got a good education and have direction in life now. These posts are meant to help and those who disbelieve or criticize may need to seek treatment one day for their addictions-and I wish them well. None of what I have posted is a myth because there is overwhelming evidence of all I assert. Feel free to complain all you want-it won't change your life or the facts. To those who justify use of these harmful drugs and promote it through your posts here, you ought to think twice what you are doing because if you strive to be a good example to others you will not promote these harmful illegal drugs. As for the psychiatrist who said pot was okay-really can't you try and think for yourself and face the facts. The doctor did not tell you to use it and did not tell you of it's harmfulness either. Just agreed with you and maybe thought later-why did I do that? Treatment will help, I assure you, I have had it and enjoyed it. The past 14 years without the "shit" have been 100% better. Best wishes to all for a better quality life. Care about yourself, care about others, live and learn. I care and am concerned about your welfare. Peace and love to you. :-) Sincerely, Pat
Posted by judy1 on January 29, 2001, at 14:17:58
In reply to For me my pdoc(s) say pot is OK, posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 0:02:58
Didn't read the thread but your message stood out- actually my pdoc told me he smokes pot. Take care, judy
Posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 16:31:17
In reply to Reply and there are no myths posted by ME...:-), posted by PatJ. on January 29, 2001, at 10:15:37
As for the psychiatrist who said pot was okay-really can't you try and think for yourself and face the facts.
James here....
I am facing facts. The psychotheripist also did not have a problems with my pot use. As they know me well and are professionals I agree with their advise.
James
Posted by PatJ. on January 29, 2001, at 17:41:50
In reply to Re: Personal Note on Harmful Chemical Use, posted by Natg on January 29, 2001, at 0:42:21
> > > I am a person who was addicted to alcohol, cigarettes and other chemicals for 16 years. I saw ALL(yes ALL-10) of my friends die from alchohol, cigarette, and harmful drug abuse
> >
> > james here.....
> >
> > Am I know people who have led normal lives, with
> > no negative outcomes, using illicits.
> >
> ######
>
> > I lost both my Mom and Dad to heavy drug usage.
> My Ex- husband is in the throes of meth addiction, he claims that it makes him feel better.His Meth addiction has progressed to Heroin abuse and needle usage
> I'm a recovering alcoholic and in the last 6 years have also seen friends auffer grave consequences from drug abuse.
> From personal experience, I know that a drug addict will go to any lenght to justify his/ her addiction.
> FACT-- PEOPLE DIE FROM DRUG ABUSE.
>
> just my personal opinion, i do not want to offend anybody but at the same time i take this issue very seriously.Natg,
I know you take it seriously and so do I. I'm sorry you lost your your parents and your husband to it. I lost 2 husbands to the use of heavy smoking and half of it was pot. It is a life and death thing. We know denial inside out don't we? They say the last person to know they have a drug problem is the user. I'm glad you came to your senses in time like I did. It's hard to tell people about this and CD Counselor's have a very hard job. It's hard for those using still, too, and they are often hypersensitve to any comments regarding their illegal and harmful drug of choice as you can see by the protecting of their "fix." But it doesn't fix as we well know. Feel free to email me if you want, Nat.
Posted by vince on February 1, 2001, at 0:46:01
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html
>
> Health_Concerns: WHAT ARE THE MEDICAL DANGERS OF MARIJUANA USE?
> ...
>
>
> MENTAL HEALTH, BRAIN FUNCTION, AND MEMORY
>
> It has been suggested that marijuana is at the root of many mental disorders, including acute toxic psychosis, panic attacks (one of the very conditions it is being used experimentally to treat), flashbacks, delusions, depersonalization, hallucinations, paranoia, depression, and uncontrollable aggressiveness. Marijuana has long been known to trigger attacks of mental illness, such as bipolar (manic-depressive) psychosis and schizophrenia. This connection with mental illness should make health care providers for terminally ill patients and the patients themselves, who may already be suffering from some form of clinical depression, weigh very carefully the pros and cons of adopting a therapeutic course of marijuana.
>
> In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning; memory defects may persist six weeks after last use. Mental disorders connected with marijuana use merit their own category in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) IV, published by the American Psychiatric Association. These include Cannabis Intoxication (consisting of impaired motor coordination, anxiety, impaired judgment, sensation of slowed time, social withdrawal, and often includes perceptual disturbances; Cannabis Intoxication Delirium (memory deficit, disorientation); Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Delusions; Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Hallucinations; and Cannabis Induced Anxiety Disorder.
>
> In addition, marijuana use has many indirect effects on health. Its effect on coordination, perception, and judgment means that it causes a number of accidents, vehicular and otherwise.
>
> For further information, you may find the following sites helpful:
>
> www.sarnia.com/GROUPS/ANTIDRUG/reality/updatejl.html, for information on links between marijuana use and mental health risks.
> www.sarnia.com/GROUPS/ANTIDRUG/mrr/21.96.10.html, for more information on the indirect effects of marijuana on health
> http://www.adf.org.au/drughit, the Australian Drug Foundation’s website
> http://marijuananews.com/a_safe_ high_.htm, a reprint of New Science magazine’s "Marijuana Special Report: A Safe High?" with commentary
> http://marijuananews.com/claim_four.htm, an article about the similarity of long-term marijuana use’s effect on the brain to that of "hard" drugs, with commentary
> www.drugs.indiana.edu/publications/iprc/misc/smokescreen.html, for general information on the health risks of marijuana.
> http://www.health.org, the homepage of the National Clearinghouse on Alcohol and Drug Information, for general information on marijuana.
>
I suffered my first episode of depression in my early twenties after I had been using marijuana for only two months. My quality of life has never been equal to what I had prior to my first experience with major depression. I have never at any time since fully recovered and I continue to go into long periods of very severe periods of illness. I know that those here who would argue against the strictest degree of scientific evidence in defence of pot, are not going to accept my single case of antidotal evidence that pot had something to do with my depression, but I am personally convinced that it changed me, in a very short time from a very happy person who was able to enjoy life to its fullest extent to a person who was only able to struggle from one day to the next in an effort to withstand a degree of suffering that I couldn't even have imagined before.Vince
Posted by orthius on February 3, 2001, at 1:54:08
In reply to Re: Personal Note on Harmful Chemical Use, posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 0:59:23
well i am not so much against pot use but as i have seen it can hinder a person from finding stability who already has problems with their mental health i have smoked alot in the past myself and at that time i could not see the real effects that it had on me externally now i can talk to someone that smokes pot and be able to tell it the tell tale signs are there to sit back and completely deny that it has no effects on your mental health is way out in left field somewhere
Posted by PatJ. on February 4, 2001, at 16:55:47
In reply to Re: Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.) » PatJ., posted by vince on February 1, 2001, at 0:46:01
> > http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html
> >
> > Health_Concerns: WHAT ARE THE MEDICAL DANGERS OF MARIJUANA USE?
> > ...
> >
> >
> > MENTAL HEALTH, BRAIN FUNCTION, AND MEMORY
> >
> > It has been suggested that marijuana is at the root of many mental disorders, including acute toxic psychosis, panic attacks (one of the very conditions it is being used experimentally to treat), flashbacks, delusions, depersonalization, hallucinations, paranoia, depression, and uncontrollable aggressiveness. Marijuana has long been known to trigger attacks of mental illness, such as bipolar (manic-depressive) psychosis and schizophrenia. This connection with mental illness should make health care providers for terminally ill patients and the patients themselves, who may already be suffering from some form of clinical depression, weigh very carefully the pros and cons of adopting a therapeutic course of marijuana.
> >
> > In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning; memory defects may persist six weeks after last use. Mental disorders connected with marijuana use merit their own category in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) IV, published by the American Psychiatric Association. These include Cannabis Intoxication (consisting of impaired motor coordination, anxiety, impaired judgment, sensation of slowed time, social withdrawal, and often includes perceptual disturbances; Cannabis Intoxication Delirium (memory deficit, disorientation); Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Delusions; Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Hallucinations; and Cannabis Induced Anxiety Disorder.
> >
> > In addition, marijuana use has many indirect effects on health. Its effect on coordination, perception, and judgment means that it causes a number of accidents, vehicular and otherwise.
> >
> > For further information, you may find the following sites helpful:
> >
> > www.sarnia.com/GROUPS/ANTIDRUG/reality/updatejl.html, for information on links between marijuana use and mental health risks.
> > www.sarnia.com/GROUPS/ANTIDRUG/mrr/21.96.10.html, for more information on the indirect effects of marijuana on health
> > http://www.adf.org.au/drughit, the Australian Drug Foundation?s website
> > http://marijuananews.com/a_safe_ high_.htm, a reprint of New Science magazine?s "Marijuana Special Report: A Safe High?" with commentary
> > http://marijuananews.com/claim_four.htm, an article about the similarity of long-term marijuana use?s effect on the brain to that of "hard" drugs, with commentary
> > www.drugs.indiana.edu/publications/iprc/misc/smokescreen.html, for general information on the health risks of marijuana.
> > http://www.health.org, the homepage of the National Clearinghouse on Alcohol and Drug Information, for general information on marijuana.
> >
>
>
> I suffered my first episode of depression in my early twenties after I had been using marijuana for only two months. My quality of life has never been equal to what I had prior to my first experience with major depression. I have never at any time since fully recovered and I continue to go into long periods of very severe periods of illness. I know that those here who would argue against the strictest degree of scientific evidence in defence of pot, are not going to accept my single case of antidotal evidence that pot had something to do with my depression, but I am personally convinced that it changed me, in a very short time from a very happy person who was able to enjoy life to its fullest extent to a person who was only able to struggle from one day to the next in an effort to withstand a degree of suffering that I couldn't even have imagined before.
>
> VinceHi Vince,
I totally believe you and think it's sad that it happened that way to you. I've experienced symptoms from it and amphetamine use, too. They were different symptoms appearing at different times after using these drugs. Have you been able to get any help for the depression? Has anything worked? I have bad depression, too. One day I'm okay the next day I am really down. I have to make myself do the things I don't want to do. Take care, Pat
Posted by PatJ. on February 4, 2001, at 17:02:11
In reply to Re: Personal Note on Harmful Chemical Use, posted by orthius on February 3, 2001, at 1:54:08
> well i am not so much against pot use but as i have seen it can hinder a person from finding stability who already has problems with their mental health i have smoked alot in the past myself and at that time i could not see the real effects that it had on me externally now i can talk to someone that smokes pot and be able to tell it the tell tale signs are there to sit back and completely deny that it has no effects on your mental health is way out in left field somewhere
Dear Orthius,
I felt as you did too at one time, that it was harmless. Now, like you, many years later I know better. There is tons of research evidence from all over the world and you are right-you can observe for yourself by looking at someone using it. I also believe it causes severe paranoia.
Posted by orthius on February 7, 2001, at 3:46:48
In reply to Re: Personal Note on Harmful Chemical Use, posted by PatJ. on February 4, 2001, at 17:02:11
Patj
Like i said i can se the effects now but i dont throw stones at people eighter what they do is their choice i would be living in a glass house if i did so and no one specially someone who is using it can be swayed away from it till they are ready to do it for themselves but looking at alot of these posts i see alot of people that cant seem to figure out why their meds are not working while in theor leisure time they are getting drunk and smoking dope why waste the money on the medication if one is not truely interested in getting better cause if they were they would be giving their brains the chance to reset its normal chemistry which i believe can not be done while using illegal substances since u partake of these substances in order to get high now isnt that alterating brain chemistry
Posted by dennis on February 10, 2001, at 17:11:23
In reply to Re: Personal Note on Harmful Chemical Use, posted by orthius on February 7, 2001, at 3:46:48
I have tried to find something explaining the history of how marijuana became illegal, this is what I found, you might find it interesting, I dont know?
The time was 1937.
Commissioner Anslinger gave the Government testimony and I will quote him directly.
"Marihuana is an addictive drug which
produces in its users insanity, criminality, and death."
That was the Government testimony to support the marijuana prohibition from the Commissioner.There were two pieces of medical evidence introduced with regard to the marijuana prohibition.
The first came from a pharmacologist at Temple University who claimed that he had
injected the active ingredient in marihuana into the brains of 300 dogs, and two of
those dogs had died. When asked by the Congressmen, and I quote, "Doctor, did you choose
dogs for the similarity of their reactions to that of humans?" the answer of the
pharmacologist was, "I wouldn't know, I am not a dog psychologist."Well, the active ingredient in marijuana was first synthesized in a laboratory
in Holland after World War II. So what it was this pharmacologist injected into
these dogs we will never know, but it almost certainly was not the active ingredient
in marijuana.The other piece of medical testimony came from a man named Dr. William C. Woodward.
Dr. Woodward was both a lawyer and a doctor and he was Chief Counsel to the
American Medical Association. Dr. Woodward came to testify at the behest of the
American Medical Association saying, and I quote, "The American Medical Association
knows of no evidence that marihuana is a dangerous drug."What's amazing is not whether that's true or not. What's amazing is what the Congressmen
then said to him. Immediately upon his saying, and I quote again, "The American Medical
Association knows of no evidence that marihuana is a dangerous drug", one of the Congressmen
said, "Doctor, if you can't say something good about what we are trying to do, why don't
you go home?"That's an exact quote. The next Congressman said, "Doctor, if you haven't got
something better to say than that, we are sick of hearing you."And, did you know that the American Medical Association, from 1932, straight through 1937,
had systematically opposed every single piece of New Deal legislation.So, over the objection of the American Medical Association, the bill passed out
of committee and on to the floor of Congress. Now, some of you may think that the
debate on the floor of Congress was more extensive on the marijuana prohibition.
It wasn't. It lasted one minute and thirty-two seconds by my count and, as such, I will
give it to you verbatim.The entire debate on the national marijuana prohibition was as follows --
"Mr. Speaker, what is this bill about?"
To which Speaker Rayburn replied, "I don't know.
It has something to do with a thing called marihuana.
I think it's a narcotic of some kind."Undaunted, the guy from Upstate New York asked a second question, which was as important to the Republicans as it was unimportant to the Democrats. "Mr. Speaker, does the American Medical Association support this bill?"
In one of the most remarkable things I have ever found in any research, a guy who was on the committee, and who later went on to become a Supreme Court Justice, stood up and said, "Their Doctor Wentworth came down here. They support this bill 100 percent." It wasn't true, but it was good enough for the Republicans. They sat down and the bill passed on tellers, without a recorded vote.
In the Senate there never was any debate or a recorded vote, and the bill went to President Roosevelt's desk and he signed it and we had the national marijuana prohibition.
Posted by willow on February 10, 2001, at 17:25:35
In reply to Re: history of prohibition, posted by dennis on February 10, 2001, at 17:11:23
The only reason it is prohibited is that it can't be taxed. Anyone could grow their own supply. It is healthier than alcohol, but then alcohol is healthier for coporations health and governments can tax it. Alcohol and cigarettes haven't been banned by governments, I wonder why?
Posted by dennis on February 10, 2001, at 18:26:27
In reply to Re: history of prohibition, posted by willow on February 10, 2001, at 17:25:35
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/dope/etc/excerpt.ram
Posted by Michael D on February 21, 2002, at 4:28:46
In reply to Re: Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.) » PatJ., posted by vince on February 1, 2001, at 0:46:01
>
> I suffered my first episode of depression in my early twenties after I had been using marijuana for only two months.Does the dose of marijuana affect whether or not you get long-term effects?
I was thinking of trying marijuana to see if it helped me. I was wondering if anybody knows whether or not these long-term effects apply to low-dose use.
Michael
Posted by IsoM on February 21, 2002, at 13:13:29
In reply to Re: Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by Michael D on February 21, 2002, at 4:28:46
I used weed a lot when I was in my late teens. But speaking as a person who had a very low motivation drive, it absolutely killed what there was of it.
I often wonder if my resulting zero motivation (other than lots of mental planning & wishing) through the rest of my life was made permanently worse by my use of marijuana. For me, I'd never touch it again even if it was legal. I love the feeling of alertness, focus, & control I now have with adrafinil.
By the way, when I was stoned, I used to think my singing sounded *SO* beautiful. Singing is a major part of my life - only when depressed, otherwise I sing everyday. Now with adrafinil, I again think my singing is beautiful but I now can tell, while it IS good, it's hardly that beautiful but it still feels so wonderful to sing.
Posted by michael on February 22, 2002, at 9:48:09
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
Hello-
Wow - this got to be a lot longer than I had anticipated.... sorry about that. Just seemed like a lot of points to address in this discussion... and then I got to rambling... and I nearly wound up making the same argument that I had initially set out to refute... oh well... I hope it's still somewhat coherent...?
I don't intend to offend anyone, I'm not saying mj is always and entirely harmless... Too much of anything is usually a bad idea.
However, a few points to keep in mind / ponder:
re: addiction - Use does not equate to abuse. It may sound like a game of semantics, but it is a valid distinction. For example, I use Dexedrine (another drug mentioned in this thread in the same context, as dangerous), I don't abuse it. I'm fortunate that for me, addiction has not been a problem (wish I was as successful with nicotine in this respect). Everyone is different. Some people, unfortunately are more prone to addiction - be it Dexedrine, cigarettes, alcohol, etc. But just because one individual may become addicted to a particular med/drug/substance, does not mean that everyone else will.
re: the "gateway" issue - if you want to condemn something as a gateway drug, it is clear that alcohol and nicotine are the true gateway "drugs" in our society. But they don't get that label because they're "legal".
re: smoking mj and then wondering why meds aren't helping for depression -- almost certainly true for some people that it can interfere with the success of their medication. For others, it might not matter, or it may even help... I may be completely wrong here - and if so, I'm sure James will correct me - but at least in James' case, it doesn't have a detrimental effect or interfere with his meds, the meds are working. For that matter, one suspicion as to why some people smoke/seek mj is that they are self medicating - in all likelihood, some are successful in that approach and some are not.
re: smoking mj triggering depression -- I'm sorry to hear that anyone has suffered that way. At the same time, a) it would be very difficult to determine conclusively that mj was the sole trigger, and b) it is quite possible that the depression may have occurred regardless of mj use... Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to tell anyone that this is not what happened in their case - I only mean to say that in my opinion, from my observations (mostly in college) and experience, this does not seem to be a frequent/common side effect, or cause and effect relationship. (this is obviously purely my opinion - no clinical studies, etc.).
re: smoking mj causing low/no motivation -- certainly a possibility... but certainly not for everyone. I know several people who occasionally smoke and/or have smoked who are very successful people - both socially & in terms of their careers.
Each of these elements boil down to the "your mileage may vary" aspect of meds (i.e.: drugs). Just because some of us have had less than perfect experiences with a particular medication/drug does not mean that all will, nor that it has no place in the psychotropic arsenal. Not one of the "legal" ad's, benzo's, etc. that we discuss here at PB, is free from undesirable side effects/risks for some of us. Yet they are true life savers for others of us.
This is from a previous post on a similar thread http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20011113/msgs/84277.html(from nov 2001):
"Personally - and this is of course purely my opinion - I think alcohol is more "dangerous" societially, than "weed" is. Alcoholism, and all of it's associated collateral damage, clearly seem far more significant than any that might result from "weed-ism" - that is if it's even addictive. (For example, people don't ingest mj and become belligerent and beat people up - be it in a bar, in the home, etc. -- getting the munchies seems much less socially harmful).
Sorry if I sound belligerent or preachy - I don't mean to... I just find the acceptability of alcohol along side the demonization of mj to be rather hypocritical... And I guess I would take the same perspective with respect to medications that are controlled/prescribed compared to mj - as mentioned earlier, both have potential to help, as well as potentially undesirable side effects... And just for the record, I don't have a problem with the legality/availability of alcohol - I do drink..."
One last comment in my little (?) rant -- As for tobacco - it's probably worse than alcohol or mj. It's ONLY function (medicinal value?) is to cause addiction and disease (that is, if you rule out making money as its function). If any of the three (alcohol, tobacco, mj) should be banned or controlled, it's got to be tobacco. Ironically, when I do take Dexedrine (to which I'm not addicted) it significantly enhances my nicotine cravings... I'd ban tobacco without hesitation if the choice were mine, despite the fact that for the moment I'm still addicted to it.
So in a way, despite the fact that I disagree, I guess that I can see where the other point of view regarding mj is coming from...? Hmmm... didn't see that one coming. (however, I still think that mj at least has an upside, or potential benefits - still can't see any positives for tobacco though)
Sorry for the length of my rant, and for drifting a bit off the orig topic... michael
Posted by christophrejmc on February 23, 2002, at 13:00:34
In reply to Re: Dangers of Marijuana , posted by michael on February 22, 2002, at 9:48:09
> re: the "gateway" issue - if you want to condemn something as a gateway drug, it is clear that alcohol and nicotine are the true gateway "drugs" in our society. But they don't get that label because they're "legal".
There are many alcohol and nicotine (ab)users who don't go on to use anything else. The same, of course, is true of marijuana. The whole "Gateway Drug™" claim is completely bogus.
Although, before taking Prozac, I had never tried any antidepressant! All of a sudden, I was taking SSRIs, SNRIs, TCAs, MAOIs, antipsychotics, benzodiazepines, antiepileptics. Thankfully, the Lord Nancy Reagan came to me in a vision and told me to "Just Say No!" Now I'm drug-free! I may be completely miserable, but at least I'm clean.
Uh, don't ask me where that came from; I didn't get much sleep last night.
-chris
Posted by michael on February 23, 2002, at 15:51:32
In reply to Re: Dangers of Marijuana » michael, posted by christophrejmc on February 23, 2002, at 13:00:34
> > re: the "gateway" issue - if you want to condemn something as a gateway drug, it is clear that alcohol and nicotine are the true gateway "drugs" in our society. But they don't get that label because they're "legal".
>
> There are many alcohol and nicotine (ab)users who don't go on to use anything else. The same, of course, is true of marijuana. The whole "Gateway Drug™" claim is completely bogus.
>
> Although, before taking Prozac, I had never tried any antidepressant! All of a sudden, I was taking SSRIs, SNRIs, TCAs, MAOIs, antipsychotics, benzodiazepines, antiepileptics. Thankfully, the Lord Nancy Reagan came to me in a vision and told me to "Just Say No!" Now I'm drug-free! I may be completely miserable, but at least I'm clean.
>
> Uh, don't ask me where that came from; I didn't get much sleep last night.
>
> -chrisI concede the point to you.
Personally, however, I'd prefer that rather than 'clean', you (and me, and the rest of us) were "'dirty' and happy"! (that is, in a good/positive/healthy sense)
btw - hope I didn't get too carried away w/my previous post... truth be told, I sent the msg in the morning, but I hadn't had any sleep either, the preceding night, so... (btw, just so that no one is concerned, my not sleeping that evening had nothing to do with, and did not include, any of the dexedrine that I had referred to)
Posted by skills on February 24, 2002, at 7:25:05
In reply to Re: Dangers of Marijuana, posted by michael on February 23, 2002, at 15:51:32
I didn't get any sleep either and sympathise deeply with both of you.
In regards to mj i have used it for the last five years. I stopped when i went into hospital as i was diagnosed with different ailements. I have just come off most of the drugs i was prescribed and feel a whole lot better. However i was still very depressed. I have been on TCA's for a long time and no change was noticed untill i started to use a small amount of mj..about 0.50g per day. My life has dramatically improved. I have new energy and motivation. I am happier and look forward to the morning. I do my work more effeiciently and am more interested in it....generally life is better. Although this may not be the case for a number of people i strongly believe that mj can have theraputic effects in a dosage worked out by the individual. The fact that it is not allowed is strange...diamorphine is class a and yet is one of the most widely used narcotic analgesics..skills.
This is the end of the thread.
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