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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Michael D on February 15, 2002, at 16:24:07
I live in Ontario, Canada, where we have Universal Health Care and no private health care system (other than going to the US).
I'm on a waiting list for a psychiatrist, and I'm willing to pay the extra money to use private health care. My MD, today, told me that he wasn't willing to go any further with me, because what I need now is past his experience.
I was thinking about going to Buffalo, NY and seeing a psychiatrist. One of my delema's is that I would like to try Adrafinil, but I'm not sure if it's legal in the US, yet. I'm guessing that American psychiatrists can't perscribe drugs that haven't been approved by the FDA.
Does anyone have any ideas that might help me?
Thank you for your replies,
Michael Dewolf
Posted by IsoM on February 15, 2002, at 16:35:56
In reply to Canadian delema + Adrafinil, posted by Michael D on February 15, 2002, at 16:24:07
From a fellow Canadian -
You won't find adrafinil any easier in the States than in Canada. In other words, you won't find it at all. It's a medication that has to be ordered from oversea pharmacies.
Are you sure adrafinil is what you need? Nothing accusatory here, just wondering why you think adrafinil would be good to take? Have you researched as much as you can find about it & how it may fit in with your difficulties?
I take adrafinil & order it overseas, but while I'm all hesitant to tell another to take it, it has helped a lot for me. But before you decide you want to take it, check out carefully whether you think it'll do what you want it to. And check to see if there's any interactions with it & any other meds you might take. If your liver isn't in good shape, I wouldn't suggest it. Even if it is good, you should have liver enzyme tests done after 3 months & probably every 6 months thereafter. What would your doctor or possibly, your psychiatrist to be, think of you taking an unprescribed med?
You might also think about taking Provigil, a prescription drug here in Canada. Provigil (modafinil) is the one of the active metabolites of adrafinil, & you may get a prescription from your doctor up here for it. Although Provigil isn't used for depression here, adrafinil has been widely used as an AD in France for years. It works very well for me in that regard, but I also have been taking Celexa (40 mg) for a couple of years too. Adrafinil really does add a big difference though.
Posted by Squiggles on February 15, 2002, at 17:09:30
In reply to Canadian delema + Adrafinil, posted by Michael D on February 15, 2002, at 16:24:07
> I live in Ontario, Canada, where we have Universal Health Care and no private health care system (other than going to the US).
>
> I'm on a waiting list for a psychiatrist, and I'm willing to pay the extra money to use private health care. My MD, today, told me that he wasn't willing to go any further with me, because what I need now is past his experience.
>
> I was thinking about going to Buffalo, NY and seeing a psychiatrist. One of my delema's is that I would like to try Adrafinil, but I'm not sure if it's legal in the US, yet. I'm guessing that American psychiatrists can't perscribe drugs that haven't been approved by the FDA.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas that might help me?
>
> Thank you for your replies,
>Dear Michael,
As far as I know, psychiatrists are covered by
Medicare in Canada. However, if you are in a rush
and your case is urgent, you might ask your doctor
for a referral to an American (whom could be paid
by Canadian Medicare under the circumstances).
Alternatively, just find another psychiatrist here
in Canada. Calling a hospital may be good and take
a look at the McMaster University hot lines for
help in this area.Squiggles
Posted by Michael D on February 15, 2002, at 17:13:37
In reply to Re: Canadian delema + Adrafinil » Michael D, posted by IsoM on February 15, 2002, at 16:35:56
Thanks IsoM,
I've since found out that Medafinil (Provigil) *is* available in the US, and hopefully will be available for me.
> Are you sure adrafinil is what you need?
Well... I've done a fair bit of research, and I've come to the conclusion that I need a stimulant. Provigil seems to be the 'best' stimulant available - No addiction, no rebound, etc.
Biggest problem is cost!! $150 - $600 US /month
Michael Dewolf
Posted by jay on February 15, 2002, at 17:43:39
In reply to Re: Canadian delema » IsoM, posted by Michael D on February 15, 2002, at 17:13:37
> Thanks IsoM,
>
> I've since found out that Medafinil (Provigil) *is* available in the US, and hopefully will be available for me.
>
> > Are you sure adrafinil is what you need?
>
> Well... I've done a fair bit of research, and I've come to the conclusion that I need a stimulant. Provigil seems to be the 'best' stimulant available - No addiction, no rebound, etc.
>
> Biggest problem is cost!! $150 - $600 US /month
>
> Michael DewolfAs another fellow Canuck, I would highly suggest getting to a good university-affiliated psychiatric research centre. I have worked with a doc out of Hamilton/McMaster Medical Sciences, and he provided treatments and meds most regular "pdocs" wouldn't bother with. It has nothing to do with the public healthcare system, as docs in the U.S. operate along the same lines. You will get the same treatment, but for a massive price.
If you can get around, and/or live near a large research centre (such as in Toronto, which has the "Centre For Mental Health and Addiction", I believe it is called, and Hamilton, which has the Hamilton Psychiatric Hospital and all it's affiliations) you could be in for some of the best care in the world. These, along with Sunnybrooke, McMaster, and their affiliates, are some of the world-wide leaders in psychiatry.
Let us know how you make out. We've got an amazing health care system, but just a bunch of stupid idiot provincial politicians trying to ruin it. They will be out of power soon enough.
Jay
Posted by IsoM on February 15, 2002, at 17:49:54
In reply to Re: Canadian delema » IsoM, posted by Michael D on February 15, 2002, at 17:13:37
> > "...Biggest problem is cost!! $150 - $600 US /month
Michael Dewolf"Exactly! It's prohibitive for me. Even if you get Provigil in Canada (yes, it's available here too), it's still a costly drug. Hence my use of adrafinil. In France, it translates to a little over 9 dollars Canadian for 40 pills at 300 mg each, if you can find a friend in France to send it like I can.
Posted by IsoM on February 15, 2002, at 17:51:58
In reply to Re: Canadian delema » Michael D, posted by jay on February 15, 2002, at 17:43:39
> > "...We've got an amazing health care system, but just a bunch of stupid idiot provincial politicians trying to ruin it. They will be out of power soon enough.
Jay"Yeah, & now here in BC, we've got Campbell doing the same thing & no money for anything now.
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 16, 2002, at 2:33:22
In reply to Canadian delema + Adrafinil, posted by Michael D on February 15, 2002, at 16:24:07
> Michael D----I looked around on some of the Canadian pharmacy websites & found that Provigil (Modafinil) is called Alertec. I think Alertec only comes in 100 mg pills & you probably will need the normal (recommended) dose of 200 mg each morning which would cost you $108 US/month.
Personally, I wouldn't order Adrafinil for two reasons-
1. There is no reason to order Adrafinil from questionable quasi-legal overseas pharmacies anymore now that you can order Provigil (Alertec) from Canada.
2. I've read that Adrafinil has a problematic tendency to elevate liver enzymes, & because of this liver toxicity, even if Adrafinil were a patentable & potentially profitable drug it would never pass FDA approval. Even if Adrafinil were approved in the US it would end up with an instant bad reputation-deserved or not- just like (Cylert) Pemoline, the ADD/psychostimulant drug that resulted in 6 cases of liver toxicity after it was release & now is virtually never prescribed.
Provigil was specifically designed to avoid elevating liver enzymes, & passed the FDA approval liver toxicity test. Also Provigil is arguably (& was designed to be) stronger & more effective for narcolepsy/wakefulness & can be used for long term therapy while adrafinil is supposed to be stopped once in awhile (probably b/c of the liver toxicity risk).I would tell you the name of the pharmacy that sells Alertec but that is prohibited on this website, so I would suggest that you look around at all the canadian pharmacies on the internet.
I personally, don't have to order Provigil through the mail since i got a US prescription 200 mg/morning for it & luckily my insurance (Cigna) covered it...
Provigil has been well recieved by most people on this site, but for me the results so far have been relatively dissapointing. It seems to have effects on me similar to a slightly stronger version of sustained release caffeine that lasts 8-10 hours but without caffeine nervousness, anxiety, & insomnia. Seems to noticeably weaker for brain stimulation than the other ADD psychostimulants (but, on a positive note, has less side effects). Once you take the prohibitively high cost into account, Provigil seems to be an overated drug that some doctors are excited about because unlike the other ADD psychostimulants (Sch II), it poses almost no abuse potential (Sch IV). (One amusing study I read was that monkeys preferred & self administered l-ephedrine (OTC Bronkaid asthma tablets) over Provigil!
I think on my next Psychiatrist visit I will ask about switching to Dexedrine Spansules which are like Provigil in that they have a long duration (10 hours?), smooth action, & once-a-day morning dosing. [I tried Dexedrine 5 mg bid before & at that low dose Dexedrine increases talkativeness & self-confidence while reducing timidity. So I am thinking that when combined with high-dose Klonopin, Dexedrine spansules may prove the ideal social phobia combination].
In my opinion Provigil pales in comparison to (Dexedrine, Dexedrine Spansules, Dextrostat, Adderall, Ritalin & Focalin) which I think are far superior & much cheaper psychostimulants/general stimulants.
3 Beers.
Posted by jay on February 18, 2002, at 11:44:23
In reply to Re: Provincial Leaders » jay, posted by IsoM on February 15, 2002, at 17:51:58
> > > "...We've got an amazing health care system, but just a bunch of stupid idiot provincial politicians trying to ruin it. They will be out of power soon enough.
> Jay"
>
> Yeah, & now here in BC, we've got Campbell doing the same thing & no money for anything now.Yes I feel very sorry for you guys. My theory is that all of these neo-conservative idiots are rich snobs who like to inflict pain on the average and lower-class working person. That is *not* what Canada is about. Sad indeed. Who ever voted for them deserves to spend a year out on the street, homeless, broke, and sick. Then maybe the fascists will "know how it feels." /rant
Jay
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 19, 2002, at 1:46:11
In reply to Re: Provincial Leaders » IsoM, posted by jay on February 18, 2002, at 11:44:23
except for Quebec, cause those snobby french canadians seem like a*sholes!
Posted by IsoM on February 19, 2002, at 2:23:13
In reply to We should just make Canada the 51st state!, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 19, 2002, at 1:46:11
That's okay, 3 Beer Effect - I think there's probably far too many of us "snobby a*shole" BC-ers too that don't want to be part of the States. I, for one, never want to be classed as American (no offense to any Americans reading this!).
Posted by Willow on February 19, 2002, at 7:59:25
In reply to Re: We should just make Canada the 51st state! » 3 Beer Effect, posted by IsoM on February 19, 2002, at 2:23:13
Posted by Dinah on February 19, 2002, at 8:25:03
In reply to We should just make Canada the 51st state!, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 19, 2002, at 1:46:11
There are a few of snobby a**holes in every nation, I'm afraid. And there are kind, clever people like IsoM in every nation as well.
But since this isn't medication related, perhaps ethnic or national slurs should be moved to another place? A place far far away.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 19, 2002, at 8:43:01
In reply to We should just make Canada the 51st state!, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 19, 2002, at 1:46:11
> those snobby french canadians seem like a*sholes!
Please be civil. I've already asked you to be careful, so now I'm going to block you from posting for a week.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding civility should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 19, 2002, at 18:56:00
In reply to Re: blocked for week » 3 Beer Effect, posted by Dr. Bob on February 19, 2002, at 8:43:01
> Follow-ups regarding civility should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20011216/msgs/3032.html
Bob
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 19, 2002, at 19:01:48
In reply to Re: For 3 Beer Effect and anyone else » IsoM, posted by Dinah on February 19, 2002, at 18:38:25
I'm sure everyone's seen the comic South Park by now..I think the whole thing about American's making slurs towards Candians is a big joke, and it's caught on because it's simply tongue in cheek. It's funny to slur at Canadians because their isn't anything to really slur at (There are no negative generalizations I know of attached to Canada), thats what makes it funny. So instead of slurring against the folks who have a reason to be angry with our slurs we invented one thats supposed to be benign and have applied it to our friendly neighbors to the North. This way we can continue to slur someone, but in theory the Candians shouldn't be offended because they are pretty much unslurrable!
This is my theory anyways!
ScottPS. Quebec is awesome! When I was in 7th grade I discovered adult bookstores which were everywhere. Dildos and things in the windows, it was great.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 20, 2002, at 21:04:19
In reply to Making fun of Canadians is fun, posted by Mr. Scott on February 19, 2002, at 19:01:48
> Making fun of Canadians is fun
It may be for you, but that's not why this site is here. I've asked you to be civil before, so now I'm going to block you from posting for a week.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 20, 2002, at 21:12:16
In reply to Redirect: Follow-ups regarding civility, posted by Dr. Bob on February 19, 2002, at 18:56:00
> > Follow-ups regarding civility should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration
And those regarding other non-medication issues, should be redirected to Psycho-Social-Babble, for example:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020214/msgs/18617.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020214/msgs/18618.htmlThanks,
Bob
Posted by Podgorski on June 16, 2005, at 21:37:21
In reply to Re: Canadian delema » IsoM, posted by Michael D on February 15, 2002, at 17:13:37
If you live close to Mexico, Provigil can be purchased there as "Modiolol". Farmacia Millenio in TJ sells a package of 30 for $59.00. These are 200 mg. tablets. Of course, you can't declare it at the border, as it'll most likely be confiscated.
This is the end of the thread.
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