![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by George on February 9, 2002, at 6:04:58
I have been taking Adderall for a little over a year now and it has completely changed my life. I had suffered from uni-polar depression for many years, taken over twenty different antidepressants, and nothing worked. Then I took Adderall and almost overnight, everything changed. I had my life back. I took 40mg every other day, and this worked great for about 12 months. Then I had to go to 40mg every third day. Then 50mg every third day. Now, at 60mg it is hardly working at all, even with four or five days in between doses. I don't know what to do. I'm rather scared since this drug has been a godsend and other stimulants (concerta, provigil) have not worked at all. Can anyone give me any advice because my pdoc has provided no good answers. Thanks for your help.
Posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 12:38:51
In reply to Adderall is not working anymore., posted by George on February 9, 2002, at 6:04:58
Hey, I understand. Adderall is just a sugar- coated solution. It wrecks people's lives. We all develop tolerance to it at some point. Once we've developed that tolerance I wonder if we've changed (permanently) the way our brain works from that point on. I haven't even gotten to that point: I started on Adderall a few weeks ago along with the Wellbutrin (300mg/day) that I was put on about 2 months ago. 5mg in the morning, and another 5mg at noon. It did absolutely nothing. The doctor had me switch to 15mg in the morning to see how that did and none at noon. Nothing. Well, I decided to stop it altogether because I was reading how it really wouldn't help me or anybody else (in my belief) in the long run. Out of curiousity, I took 30mg yesterday and still got no results except for loss of appetite (which occured ever since the first 5mg) and a little increased heart rate. Today, I had to take my ACT test and concentration was key in my mind so I decided to pop 10 - 5mg pills (50mg) to see if that helped during the test. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! I think it is a sign that I should definately look elsewhere. I'm am meeting with my doctor on Wednesday to tell him I want no more Adderall and that the Wellbutrin is not working. I am suggesting Selegiline (and Klonopin for some social anxiety/phobia symptoms) to help my depression. Hey, read my post a few days ago called "MUST READ (deprenyl,klonopin,etc.)" to see where I think my (and possibly yours and many others for that matter) solution lies. It just might change your life. It should give you some insight. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I wish you the best of luck. God bless -Jason911
> I have been taking Adderall for a little over a year now and it has completely changed my life. I had suffered from uni-polar depression for many years, taken over twenty different antidepressants, and nothing worked. Then I took Adderall and almost overnight, everything changed. I had my life back. I took 40mg every other day, and this worked great for about 12 months. Then I had to go to 40mg every third day. Then 50mg every third day. Now, at 60mg it is hardly working at all, even with four or five days in between doses. I don't know what to do. I'm rather scared since this drug has been a godsend and other stimulants (concerta, provigil) have not worked at all. Can anyone give me any advice because my pdoc has provided no good answers. Thanks for your help.
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 9, 2002, at 13:14:56
In reply to Adderall is not working anymore., posted by George on February 9, 2002, at 6:04:58
Your problem is common for people taking Adderall for depression. Here are some Ideas that might be helpful.
1) Add a drug like Effexor, wellbutrin, desipramine, nortriptyline or really anything that potently blocks the re-uptake of catecholamines (Norepinephrine & Dopamine). In Fact I know this will restore your response, but how long I don't know, perhaps tolerance would evenually develop again.
2) Try adding a 'gabaergic' drug to the mix. Supposedly drugs that affect the NMDA receptor like benzodiazepines, Neurontin, and others I'm not sure of may restore the effectiveness of stimulants once tolerance has developed. I don't understand why, but you could try it and see. Several papers have been eritten about this.
3)Switch to a new approach that maybe incorporates Adfrafanil, or Provigil. Again...a suggestion only.
4)Get your hands on some Vasopressin or Desmopressin. You can order it online from pharmacies off shore the US. I read once it restores lost stimulant response by somehow afecting the adrenal glands.
Thats all I can offer.
Scott
Posted by Bekka H. on February 9, 2002, at 13:23:14
In reply to Adderall is not working anymore., posted by George on February 9, 2002, at 6:04:58
First, have you tried Dexedrine? Dexedrine seems to affect the CNS more than the mixed amphetamine salts like Adderall. Adderall affects norepinephrine and dopamine, whereas Dexedrine seems to affect dopamine more (although they both affect both neurotransmitters). For me, Adderall has more adverse affects on the cardiovascular system.
Next, if Dexedrine doesn't work for you, it is possible you have developed a tolerance to the stimulants. This happens to many people, unfortunately. I read some very helpful posts from the past by a PB member named Hattree. That poster had some excellent ideas for avoiding/delaying stimulant tolerance. When I was on stimulants, I had to take as many med-free days as possible, and switch to different stimulants when possible (however, there is a little bit of cross tolerance for me). I had to take several months off from Dexedrine altogether for it to help me again. Some people need more time off from it than that. I also have the problem that if I try to take a higher dose, I just go to sleep. I was on 25-30 mg of Dexedrine. Anything above 30 mg just put me to sleep. It's so discouraging because when you first start stims, they are so helpful. After a while, you poop-out, and you end up worse than before you started them.
Another avenue to explore is Memantine, which supposedly prevents tolerance to stims. I've seem some posts about Lamictal possibly helping in that regard as well, but nothing definite yet. I'm looking into Memantine myself. The thing is, if it's going to help prevent/delay tolerance, I would think you'd have to be off stims for a while so you could lose the tolerance you've built up. I don't know that for sure, though.
One other thought: You said that Ritalin, Concerta didn't help. Did you give them a good try? When I switched from Dexedrine to methylphenidate (Ritalin, etc), it took several weeks to see what Ritalin was doing because the first week or so I was in Dexedrine-withdrawal, so I felt pretty depressed and tired from that.
Posted by George on February 9, 2002, at 14:49:28
In reply to Re: Adderall is not working anymore., posted by Bekka H. on February 9, 2002, at 13:23:14
Thanks to all of you. These are all helpful suggestions.
Posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 18:06:49
In reply to Re: Adderall is not working anymore.-I understand » George, posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 12:38:51
I need to make a correction. The 50mg I took before the test (7:30am) didn't seem to work at first. But when I got home (12:00pm) and after I posted this message, I felt something. I didn't feel anything till about 2:30. I felt a little sedated. I had a slight headache in response to stress (I admitted to my parents that I took 30mg yesterday and 50mg today as an experiment-they weren't pleased). My pupils had definately dialated pretty good too. I got over it at about 4:30pm. It seemed to have a delayed and definately opposite effect on me. Maybe the effect I felt was my body's response to the med. I definately will not take this again, and will probably confess to my doctor about this. Anyway, story still applies: DON'T TAKE ADDERALL UNLESS YOU ONLY LIVE "IN THE NOW"...... Adderall catches up with you :) -Jason911
> Hey, I understand. Adderall is just a sugar- coated solution. It wrecks people's lives. We all develop tolerance to it at some point. Once we've developed that tolerance I wonder if we've changed (permanently) the way our brain works from that point on. I haven't even gotten to that point: I started on Adderall a few weeks ago along with the Wellbutrin (300mg/day) that I was put on about 2 months ago. 5mg in the morning, and another 5mg at noon. It did absolutely nothing. The doctor had me switch to 15mg in the morning to see how that did and none at noon. Nothing. Well, I decided to stop it altogether because I was reading how it really wouldn't help me or anybody else (in my belief) in the long run. Out of curiousity, I took 30mg yesterday and still got no results except for loss of appetite (which occured ever since the first 5mg) and a little increased heart rate. Today, I had to take my ACT test and concentration was key in my mind so I decided to pop 10 - 5mg pills (50mg) to see if that helped during the test. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! I think it is a sign that I should definately look elsewhere. I'm am meeting with my doctor on Wednesday to tell him I want no more Adderall and that the Wellbutrin is not working. I am suggesting Selegiline (and Klonopin for some social anxiety/phobia symptoms) to help my depression. Hey, read my post a few days ago called "MUST READ (deprenyl,klonopin,etc.)" to see where I think my (and possibly yours and many others for that matter) solution lies. It just might change your life. It should give you some insight. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I wish you the best of luck. God bless -Jason911
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I have been taking Adderall for a little over a year now and it has completely changed my life. I had suffered from uni-polar depression for many years, taken over twenty different antidepressants, and nothing worked. Then I took Adderall and almost overnight, everything changed. I had my life back. I took 40mg every other day, and this worked great for about 12 months. Then I had to go to 40mg every third day. Then 50mg every third day. Now, at 60mg it is hardly working at all, even with four or five days in between doses. I don't know what to do. I'm rather scared since this drug has been a godsend and other stimulants (concerta, provigil) have not worked at all. Can anyone give me any advice because my pdoc has provided no good answers. Thanks for your help.
Posted by JohnX2 on February 9, 2002, at 20:50:04
In reply to Adderall is not working anymore., posted by George on February 9, 2002, at 6:04:58
Here are my ideas for medicines that may
help with the tolerance issue:medicine (mode of action)
- Lamictal (NMDA antagonism)
- Topamax (increased GabaA conductance)
- Memantine (NMDA antagonism)Lamictal + Topamax or Memantine + Topamax
combo may subtantially alleviate your tolerance.
There are a lot of papers that describe the
sensitization/tolerance pathway of stimulants and
most of them implicate NMDA and Gaba receptors.Unfortunately there is no substantial real world data
in this area, just anecdotal observations and some
shooting from the hip.- John
> I have been taking Adderall for a little over a year now and it has completely changed my life. I had suffered from uni-polar depression for many years, taken over twenty different antidepressants, and nothing worked. Then I took Adderall and almost overnight, everything changed. I had my life back. I took 40mg every other day, and this worked great for about 12 months. Then I had to go to 40mg every third day. Then 50mg every third day. Now, at 60mg it is hardly working at all, even with four or five days in between doses. I don't know what to do. I'm rather scared since this drug has been a godsend and other stimulants (concerta, provigil) have not worked at all. Can anyone give me any advice because my pdoc has provided no good answers. Thanks for your help.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2002, at 12:25:07
In reply to Re: Adderall is not working anymore.-I understand » George, posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 12:38:51
> Adderall is just a sugar- coated solution. It wrecks people's lives.
The idea here is to educate others. Please don't exaggerate or over-generalize.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 13:44:30
In reply to Re: please be civil » Jason911, posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2002, at 12:25:07
BOB,
Would you not agree that EVERYONE (whether it takes 2 weeks or 2 years) develops a tolerance to Adderall or any amphetamine and can end up stuck in a rut because the medicine, that was so perfect before, is now useless and, even worse, causes withdrawl? Tell me it isn't so. I believe that no one with depression should even consider Adderall in their regimen. They WILL develop tolerance and they WILL feel like (you know what).
Jason911
> > Adderall is just a sugar- coated solution. It wrecks people's lives.
>
> The idea here is to educate others. Please don't exaggerate or over-generalize.
>
> Bob
>
> PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Posted by Bekka H. on February 10, 2002, at 15:52:43
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 13:44:30
> BOB,
>
> Would you not agree that EVERYONE (whether it takes 2 weeks or 2 years) develops a tolerance to Adderall or any amphetamine and can end up stuck in a rut because the medicine, that was so perfect before, is now useless and, even worse, causes withdrawl? Tell me it isn't so. I believe that no one with depression should even consider Adderall in their regimen. They WILL develop tolerance and they WILL feel like (you know what).
>
> Jason911
>
*************************************************Well, I'm NOT Dr. Bob, but I agree with you. The drug-induced depression from stimulants is worse than the depression one has before starting stims. How right you are. For some, tolerance develops in two weeks; for others, it might take two years. I've read about meds like memantine and Lamictal which can prevent or delay tolerance, but there are probably more problems associated with them, so taking those is probably nothing more than staving off the inevitable.
Posted by kiddo on February 10, 2002, at 17:46:03
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 13:44:30
IMO that statement is wrong....I have taken (and still do) take Adderall but, have never experienced any of what you are talking about...no withdrawal, not stuck in a 'rut' or however you want to put it....and I have gone off of it for months at a time because I pay out of pocket.
Kiddo
> BOB,
>
> Would you not agree that EVERYONE (whether it takes 2 weeks or 2 years) develops a tolerance to Adderall or any amphetamine and can end up stuck in a rut because the medicine, that was so perfect before, is now useless and, even worse, causes withdrawl? Tell me it isn't so. I believe that no one with depression should even consider Adderall in their regimen. They WILL develop tolerance and they WILL feel like (you know what).
>
> Jason911
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Adderall is just a sugar- coated solution. It wrecks people's lives.
> >
> > The idea here is to educate others. Please don't exaggerate or over-generalize.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 18:15:53
In reply to Re: please be civil » Jason911, posted by kiddo on February 10, 2002, at 17:46:03
The fact that you are off of it for months at a time is what is probably saving you. It is preventing the tolerance effect. This usually occurs in people you use it every day or so. Are you using it recreationally? Because I couldn't see otherwise how you could tolerate it using it only every few months. Seems pointless. -Jason911
> IMO that statement is wrong....I have taken (and still do) take Adderall but, have never experienced any of what you are talking about...no withdrawal, not stuck in a 'rut' or however you want to put it....and I have gone off of it for months at a time because I pay out of pocket.
>
>
> Kiddo
>
>
> > BOB,
> >
> > Would you not agree that EVERYONE (whether it takes 2 weeks or 2 years) develops a tolerance to Adderall or any amphetamine and can end up stuck in a rut because the medicine, that was so perfect before, is now useless and, even worse, causes withdrawl? Tell me it isn't so. I believe that no one with depression should even consider Adderall in their regimen. They WILL develop tolerance and they WILL feel like (you know what).
> >
> > Jason911
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > Adderall is just a sugar- coated solution. It wrecks people's lives.
> > >
> > > The idea here is to educate others. Please don't exaggerate or over-generalize.
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > > PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Posted by kiddo on February 10, 2002, at 18:39:23
In reply to READ!! » kiddo, posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 18:15:53
> The fact that you are off of it for months at a time is what is probably saving you. It is preventing the tolerance effect. This usually occurs in people you use it every day or so. Are you using it recreationally? Because I couldn't see otherwise how you could tolerate it using it only every few months. Seems pointless. -Jason911
>
>
>I said I HAD been off it for months at a time. I take 20mg daily and have for over a year. When I met my pdoc I had enough meds to start my own pharmacy. However, with the help of my husband and pdoc, that isn't the case anymore and hasn't been for the past 6 years.
Yes, taking Adderall (or any other med) recreationally would seem pointless but is done every day....
Again, I take Adderall everyday, however there have been times when I've ran out and couldn't afford to pick up the scrip, and went without it; at times a few days, a week, or even a month....and do tolerate it without withdrawal.
Kiddo
>
>
> > IMO that statement is wrong....I have taken (and still do) take Adderall but, have never experienced any of what you are talking about...no withdrawal, not stuck in a 'rut' or however you want to put it....and I have gone off of it for months at a time because I pay out of pocket.
> >
> >
> > Kiddo
> >
> >
> > > BOB,
> > >
> > > Would you not agree that EVERYONE (whether it takes 2 weeks or 2 years) develops a tolerance to Adderall or any amphetamine and can end up stuck in a rut because the medicine, that was so perfect before, is now useless and, even worse, causes withdrawl? Tell me it isn't so. I believe that no one with depression should even consider Adderall in their regimen. They WILL develop tolerance and they WILL feel like (you know what).
> > >
> > > Jason911
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Adderall is just a sugar- coated solution. It wrecks people's lives.
> > > >
> > > > The idea here is to educate others. Please don't exaggerate or over-generalize.
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > > > PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 19:06:31
In reply to Re: READ!! » Jason911, posted by kiddo on February 10, 2002, at 18:39:23
Well, in some people, it just takes longer (sometimes 2 or 3 years) before they realize a higher dosage is needed to get the same effect or that no matter what reasonable dosage is used, they get no effect anymore and experience withdrawl symptoms. Things have gone great so far, but you should know what lies down the road (could be a long road, but) every human brain (unless taking another medication to help this and even those are questionable) will produce tolerance. It's our brains way of responding to the constant onslaught of amphetamines. To put it more simply, amphetamines (especially dexedrine or adderall) trick the brain into doing a certain thing and eventually the brain figures this out and tries to counter-act this. Damage to dopamine cells are not uncommon after continued amphetamine use (5 or 10 years down the road) and especially not wise if you're over 40 as this occurs naturally in people with age and could potentiate this. Adderall WILL catch up with you. It could take 4 or more years but will still occur. I would recommend low-dose (5mg) selegiline (Eldepryl) to protect your dopamine cells from neurotoxicity and it could possibly prolong it's effects (as well as your life) over a longer period of time. God bless, -Jason911
> >
> >
> >
>
> I said I HAD been off it for months at a time. I take 20mg daily and have for over a year. When I met my pdoc I had enough meds to start my own pharmacy. However, with the help of my husband and pdoc, that isn't the case anymore and hasn't been for the past 6 years.
>
> Yes, taking Adderall (or any other med) recreationally would seem pointless but is done every day....
>
> Again, I take Adderall everyday, however there have been times when I've ran out and couldn't afford to pick up the scrip, and went without it; at times a few days, a week, or even a month....and do tolerate it without withdrawal.
>
>
> Kiddo
> >
> >
> >
Posted by Willow on February 10, 2002, at 20:38:29
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 13:44:30
"Would you not agree that EVERYONE (whether it takes 2 weeks or 2 years) develops a tolerance to Adderall or any amphetamine ..."
In my youth I was much smarter, or at least my perception of myself at the time was such. Why, because at the time I believed absolutes like everyone and never. As I've gained more experiences I now know that true definites are a rare thing.
Whispering Willow
Posted by kiddo on February 10, 2002, at 21:04:49
In reply to Not to scare you or anything... » kiddo, posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 19:06:31
1.) Are you a physician?
2.) How did you obtain this information?
3.) How do you 'know' what lies down the road for me?
4.) Why should I just take your word as if it were law?
I appreciate your 'recommendation', however, the problem I have with this is that I don't know who you are, and vice-versa. Even if you were a physician, I wouldn't take your recommendation at face value because you don't know me, my history or anything about my illness/disorder(s).
I very rarely visit PB for this reason. People seem too eager to accept another's word regarding medication, perhaps self-medicating, self-diagnosing, and/or altering their current medication without regard to THEIR situation, illness, and the possible repercussions of their actions.
I prefer to leave that up to my pdoc, his expertise, and the fact that he's known me for over 6 years, knows my illness, medical history, reactions/allergies, and has many years of experience and education to back his decisions.
People don't realize that (over) generalizations, posting incorrect/incomplete, and/or inappropriate information regarding to another person could cause not only needless panic, worry, but could cause someone to make a wrong decision that could be life-threatening or even fatal.
However, I do appreciate the thought-
Kiddo
> Well, in some people, it just takes longer (sometimes 2 or 3 years) before they realize a higher dosage is needed to get the same effect or that no matter what reasonable dosage is used, they get no effect anymore and experience withdrawl symptoms. Things have gone great so far, but you should know what lies down the road (could be a long road, but) every human brain (unless taking another medication to help this and even those are questionable) will produce tolerance. It's our brains way of responding to the constant onslaught of amphetamines. To put it more simply, amphetamines (especially dexedrine or adderall) trick the brain into doing a certain thing and eventually the brain figures this out and tries to counter-act this. Damage to dopamine cells are not uncommon after continued amphetamine use (5 or 10 years down the road) and especially not wise if you're over 40 as this occurs naturally in people with age and could potentiate this. Adderall WILL catch up with you. It could take 4 or more years but will still occur. I would recommend low-dose (5mg) selegiline (Eldepryl) to protect your dopamine cells from neurotoxicity and it could possibly prolong it's effects (as well as your life) over a longer period of time. God bless, -Jason911
>
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I said I HAD been off it for months at a time. I take 20mg daily and have for over a year. When I met my pdoc I had enough meds to start my own pharmacy. However, with the help of my husband and pdoc, that isn't the case anymore and hasn't been for the past 6 years.
> >
> > Yes, taking Adderall (or any other med) recreationally would seem pointless but is done every day....
> >
> > Again, I take Adderall everyday, however there have been times when I've ran out and couldn't afford to pick up the scrip, and went without it; at times a few days, a week, or even a month....and do tolerate it without withdrawal.
> >
> >
> > Kiddo
> > >
> > >
> > >
Posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 21:16:06
In reply to everyone » Jason911, posted by Willow on February 10, 2002, at 20:38:29
You are very Wise; wise indeed. There ARE exceptions to the rule, I guess. Very rare, though, in this case. Lucky people these guys; lucky indeed... -Jason911
Wisdom - the power to interpret, and apply knowledge from, Experience - All that is: Whispering Willow
.
.>
> In my youth I was much smarter, or at least my perception of myself at the time was such. Why, because at the time I believed absolutes like everyone and never. As I've gained more experiences I now know that true definites are a rare thing.
>
> Whispering Willow
Posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 22:08:56
In reply to Re: Not scared or anything..., posted by kiddo on February 10, 2002, at 21:04:49
> 1.) Are you a physician?
* NO
>
> 2.) How did you obtain this information?* Numerious observations and studies
>
> 3.) How do you 'know' what lies down the road for me?* I don't. But tolerance is almost a certainty.
>
> 4.) Why should I just take your word as if it were law?* You should never take anyone's word as if it were "law". You make decisions only. I try to stay as informed as possible about a specific issue and try to learn as much as I can. The internet contains a powerhouse of knowledge to be explored and forums, such as PB, provide knowledge to always keep in the back of your mind as it very well could help you. It's up to you to be informed of deadly combos or problematic advice that could be given to you. Take what you learn from here and expand on it and dig deeper to find more. The truth is out there, and what better method than to learn from the people who possess the knowledge of personal experience, but, therefore, up to YOU how to apply it. To find a solution is a dedicated effort that can only done by you or be left completely at the hands of another person. Lawsuits happen all the time against doctors for causing their patients more harm than good. Doctors know best? Not always. So many people don't realize the true extent of how unstructured and vulnerable this particular field of medicine is (there's a good post called: "Re: Psycho-Babble not helping anymore", OldSchool, 2/10/02" to keep in mind). Even psychiatrists are not always correct in diagnosing individuals or know what's best for them, even if it may seem that way. We must all look deeper to find a true answer. But at the same time, doctors are quite often successful at treating their patients without putting them through a vigorous and varied proccess of meds and combinations which produce side effects that can temporarily or permanently ruin their life but, certainly, don't always find the cure in one easy visit. For most of us, it takes time and can sometimes be a quite troublesome process of trial-and-error :) Psychiatry is really a pseudo-science. It really IS a trial-and-error system based on these doctors' observations to more easily narrow the options down for where his or her patient's "cure" might lie, based on other peoples' success (not always long term), and known reactions to various drug treatments in the past. You are fully entitled to believe or do what you or, otherwise, what someone else wants you to. This forum provides opinions to those who ask it, and it's up to you to decide fact from "fiction". -Jason911
;
>
> I appreciate your 'recommendation', however, the problem I have with this is that I don't know who you are, and vice-versa. Even if you were a physician, I wouldn't take your recommendation at face value because you don't know me, my history or anything about my illness/disorder(s).
>
> I very rarely visit PB for this reason. People seem too eager to accept another's word regarding medication, perhaps self-medicating, self-diagnosing, and/or altering their current medication without regard to THEIR situation, illness, and the possible repercussions of their actions.
>
> I prefer to leave that up to my pdoc, his expertise, and the fact that he's known me for over 6 years, knows my illness, medical history, reactions/allergies, and has many years of experience and education to back his decisions.
>
> People don't realize that (over) generalizations, posting incorrect/incomplete, and/or inappropriate information regarding to another person could cause not only needless panic, worry, but could cause someone to make a wrong decision that could be life-threatening or even fatal.
>
> However, I do appreciate the thought-
>
>
> Kiddo
>
>
> > Well, in some people, it just takes longer (sometimes 2 or 3 years) before they realize a higher dosage is needed to get the same effect or that no matter what reasonable dosage is used, they get no effect anymore and experience withdrawl symptoms. Things have gone great so far, but you should know what lies down the road (could be a long road, but) every human brain (unless taking another medication to help this and even those are questionable) will produce tolerance. It's our brains way of responding to the constant onslaught of amphetamines. To put it more simply, amphetamines (especially dexedrine or adderall) trick the brain into doing a certain thing and eventually the brain figures this out and tries to counter-act this. Damage to dopamine cells are not uncommon after continued amphetamine use (5 or 10 years down the road) and especially not wise if you're over 40 as this occurs naturally in people with age and could potentiate this. Adderall WILL catch up with you. It could take 4 or more years but will still occur. I would recommend low-dose (5mg) selegiline (Eldepryl) to protect your dopamine cells from neurotoxicity and it could possibly prolong it's effects (as well as your life) over a longer period of time. God bless, -Jason911
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > I said I HAD been off it for months at a time. I take 20mg daily and have for over a year. When I met my pdoc I had enough meds to start my own pharmacy. However, with the help of my husband and pdoc, that isn't the case anymore and hasn't been for the past 6 years.
> > >
> > > Yes, taking Adderall (or any other med) recreationally would seem pointless but is done every day....
> > >
> > > Again, I take Adderall everyday, however there have been times when I've ran out and couldn't afford to pick up the scrip, and went without it; at times a few days, a week, or even a month....and do tolerate it without withdrawal.
> > >
> > >
> > > Kiddo
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
Posted by kiddo on February 10, 2002, at 22:18:35
In reply to Re: Not scared or anything... » kiddo, posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 22:08:56
the internet is also full of deadly 'mis'information as well...
....The internet contains a powerhouse of knowledge to be explored and forums, such as PB, provide knowledge to always keep in the back of your mind as it very well could help you. It's up to you to be informed of deadly combos or problematic advice that could be given to you. ....
Posted by kiddo on February 10, 2002, at 22:40:43
In reply to Not to scare you or anything... » kiddo, posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 19:06:31
I sent this message to my pdoc, and sorry, but he completely disagrees with you...and I must say not only do I agree with him (and did before he responded), but have to side with him because after all he did go to school, etc...
> Well, in some people, it just takes longer (sometimes 2 or 3 years) before they realize a higher dosage is needed to get the same effect or that no matter what reasonable dosage is used, they get no effect anymore and experience withdrawl symptoms. Things have gone great so far, but you should know what lies down the road (could be a long road, but) every human brain (unless taking another medication to help this and even those are questionable) will produce tolerance. It's our brains way of responding to the constant onslaught of amphetamines. To put it more simply, amphetamines (especially dexedrine or adderall) trick the brain into doing a certain thing and eventually the brain figures this out and tries to counter-act this. Damage to dopamine cells are not uncommon after continued amphetamine use (5 or 10 years down the road) and especially not wise if you're over 40 as this occurs naturally in people with age and could potentiate this. Adderall WILL catch up with you. It could take 4 or more years but will still occur. I would recommend low-dose (5mg) selegiline (Eldepryl) to protect your dopamine cells from neurotoxicity and it could possibly prolong it's effects (as well as your life) over a longer period of time. God bless, -Jason911
>
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I said I HAD been off it for months at a time. I take 20mg daily and have for over a year. When I met my pdoc I had enough meds to start my own pharmacy. However, with the help of my husband and pdoc, that isn't the case anymore and hasn't been for the past 6 years.
> >
> > Yes, taking Adderall (or any other med) recreationally would seem pointless but is done every day....
> >
> > Again, I take Adderall everyday, however there have been times when I've ran out and couldn't afford to pick up the scrip, and went without it; at times a few days, a week, or even a month....and do tolerate it without withdrawal.
> >
> >
> > Kiddo
> > >
> > >
> > >
Posted by cmcdougall on February 11, 2002, at 11:31:08
In reply to Re: Not to scare you or anything... » Jason911, posted by kiddo on February 10, 2002, at 22:40:43
I took Ritalin 20mg/3xday for 7 years. I never developed a tolerance or suffered any kind of withdrawal... I would sometimes forget to take it and not even notice any difference until my husband would ask me if I forgot my medicine. He could tell that I wasn't acting "with it". Now, don't get me wrong. There was a huge difference in how Ritalin made me feel. It changed my life for the better in a BIG way. I don't want anyone to assume that because I forgot to take it and didn't notice anything, I had developed a tolerance. The people around me could tell a difference and when reminded, I could immediately realize the difference. It was like a "light-bulb" moment.
I no longer take Ritalin, because of the noticable ups and downs during the day. I tried Concerta, the long-acting methylphenidate, and it was OK. My pdoc had me try Provigil, but it made me feel jittery. I then asked my pdoc if I could try Adderal because it is supposed to be "smoother". I LOVE Adderal. It makes me feel alert, focused, and a little more motivated. I also don't feel compelled to take a nap everyday. All in all, it has been a great drug for me. I also take Concerta 40mg, desipramine 25mg/2xday, and trazodone 50-100mg/night.
This is the best cocktail I've ever tried. I do get SSRI poop-out after about a year or two and have been toying w/ the idea of adding memantine to prevent that. Anyone have any thoughts on that idea? I would REALLY like to use this cocktail indefinately because it makes me feel soooo good.
Good luck all...
Carly
Posted by Jason911 on February 11, 2002, at 19:24:03
In reply to Re: Not to scare you or anything... » Jason911, posted by kiddo on February 10, 2002, at 22:40:43
You tell your doctor that I said he's full of sh*t if he thinks that one will never develop a tolerance to amphetamines. It happens to EVERYBODY. You tell him that. Ask him what makes him think that your brain won't develop a tolerance to it when it is well documented that amphetamines cause tolerance (and in some people, quite fast). I feel sorry for you. It won't work like it used to in a few years. Bet on it. -Jason911 **Adderall should not be prescribed for long-term use.**
;
;
;> I sent this message to my pdoc, and sorry, but he completely disagrees with you...and I must say not only do I agree with him (and did before he responded), but have to side with him because after all he did go to school, etc...
>
>
Posted by christophrejmc on February 11, 2002, at 22:32:03
In reply to Well again, » kiddo, posted by Jason911 on February 11, 2002, at 19:24:03
> You tell your doctor that I said he's full of sh*t if he thinks that one will never develop a tolerance to amphetamines. It happens to EVERYBODY. You tell him that. Ask him what makes him think that your brain won't develop a tolerance to it when it is well documented that amphetamines cause tolerance (and in some people, quite fast). I feel sorry for you. It won't work like it used to in a few years. Bet on it. -Jason911 **Adderall should not be prescribed for long-term use.**
My brother took Dexedrine (d-amphetamine) daily for years (at least four, I'm not exactly sure) and never developed tolerance; he also had no problems with withdrawl. My mother has taken Adderall for two years, hasn't developed tolerance yet. I have taken both Dexedrine and Adderall on a long-term basis; I had no problems with tolerance or withdrawl. I know of several others who have had the same experience.
Are you aware that two of selegiline's three active metabolites are l-amphetamine and l-methamphetamine (the levo isomers are considered less powerful and have different effects on the brain, but are amphetamines nonetheless)? If you feel so committed to warn other people about the dangers of amphetamines and say that "**Adderall should not be prescribed for long-term use.**" (by the way, Adderall also contains l-amphetamine), why did you neglect to mention anything about long-term selegiline? Please remember that, for some, medications like Adderall are "life-saving" (a term you used to describe selegiline).
-Christophre
Posted by christophrejmc on February 11, 2002, at 23:02:45
In reply to Re: Well again, » Jason911, posted by christophrejmc on February 11, 2002, at 22:32:03
> Please remember that, for some, medications like Adderall are "life-saving" (a term you used to describe selegiline).
Just to clarify, I meant you quoted someone using that term to describe selegiline. I don't want to make false accusations.
Also, you might want to look at some of the recent posts concerning use of "scare tactics." Opinions are fine, but making a statement like "**Adderall should not be prescribed for long-term use.**" could scare someone into doing something potentially dangerous -- like stopping their medication abruptly, without doctor approval.
This is the end of the thread.
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