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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 11, 2002, at 19:15:47
Is it normal...
To feel kind of speedy and like you can accomplish a lot, but also a bit nervous and anxious for a few days/weeks when starting a new AD (especially Wellbutrin/Effexor?Zoloft/Prozac)Scott
Posted by Mark H. on February 11, 2002, at 19:38:18
In reply to Is this normal...?, posted by Mr. Scott on February 11, 2002, at 19:15:47
It's normal for some of us, Scott. Are you bipolar? I ask because Prozac in particular gave me odd color distortions the first day I took it, and three days later I felt like I wanted to jump out of bed and dance on the table. However, it had no particular anti-depressant effect for me, just agitated depression. After chasing various unpleasant side-effects around my body for a few weeks, I switched to Zoloft, which did nothing. I certainly am familiar with the feelings you describe, however. Unfortunately, for me at least the feeling of energy and being able to get something done proved to be mostly false for want of the ability to settle down and focus on completing something.
Please keep us posted.
Mark H.
Posted by IsoM on February 11, 2002, at 19:55:10
In reply to Is this normal...?, posted by Mr. Scott on February 11, 2002, at 19:15:47
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 11, 2002, at 21:34:31
In reply to Re: Is this normal...?, posted by Mark H. on February 11, 2002, at 19:38:18
> It's normal for some of us, Scott. Are you bipolar? I ask because Prozac in particular gave me odd color distortions the first day I took it, and three days later I felt like I wanted to jump out of bed and dance on the table. However, it had no particular anti-depressant effect for me, just agitated depression. After chasing various unpleasant side-effects around my body for a few weeks, I switched to Zoloft, which did nothing. I certainly am familiar with the feelings you describe, however. Unfortunately, for me at least the feeling of energy and being able to get something done proved to be mostly false for want of the ability to settle down and focus on completing something.
>
> Please keep us posted.
>
> Mark H.There is concern I am BP II, but not conclusively. I am trying some mood stabilizers to see if they have an effect, but regarding the AD's i wanted to know if this is a BP thing or a common thing regardless.
Remind me if you would if you use a Stabilizer? I recall you taking Effexor + a stim + small dose of Klonopin. If I'm recalling correctly, that doesn't sound like you have BP do you?
Thanks,
Scott
Posted by Anna Laura on February 12, 2002, at 11:51:30
In reply to Is this normal...?, posted by Mr. Scott on February 11, 2002, at 19:15:47
> Is it normal...
> To feel kind of speedy and like you can accomplish a lot, but also a bit nervous and anxious for a few days/weeks when starting a new AD (especially Wellbutrin/Effexor?Zoloft/Prozac)
>
> ScottI did feel kind of speedy and more focused the first days a new AD was kicking in, but nothing comparable to the "normal" levels : energy and drive were still way down below the normal "well-being" range.
I tend to walk and move a lot, sometimes i feel more anxious or kind of angry but still apathetic and anhedonic. I feel flat, it's just pure drive.
I noticed an increase in colours perception with Prozac and Zoloft as they look brighter and more intense: still, nothing comparable to my old "technicolor" perception when i wasn't depressed.
Posted by Mark H. on February 12, 2002, at 17:20:05
In reply to Re: Is this normal...? » Mark H. , posted by Mr. Scott on February 11, 2002, at 21:34:31
Scott,
Yes -- good memory! -- and I am solidly BP II, although my depression is atypical (I sleep all the time and eat like a hungry wolf). So I need strong stimulants to stay awake during the day (methylphenidate or dexedrine), and a beta blocker to deal with my over-production of adrenaline (my body's way of fighting the sleepiness and fogginess).
Also, mood stabilizers make my depression worse. They sometimes helped for a few days, but then pushed me lower into despair.
The clonzepam is mostly for periodic limb movement syndrome, which is polite talk for thrashing about rhythmically for several hours a night, especially when I am particularly tired.
I emphatically disagree with the standard wisdom that everyone with any form of bipolar disorder should be on mood stabilizers. While this is (perhaps) true for most type one's and typicals, it simply doesn't work for some of us with atypical, refractive BP2.
I'm going to try to paste in the list I made recently for my psychiatrist. Only you would appreciate this!
Antidepressants and adjunctive medications tried, 1993 – 2002
Prozac 8/93 Odd side effects; ineffective for depression
Zoloft 9/93 Dulling, ineffective at any dose
Paxil 2/94 Nothing
Desipramine 8/94 Much worse than nothing
Cytomel 9/94 - present Helps energy level; less sleepy
Effexor 9/94 - 10/95 Effective, but at ever-higher doses
Depakote 1/96 Ineffective
Wellbutrin 2/96 Short-term memory impaired; ineffective
Lithium 3/96 & 2/97 & 4/97 Initial improvement, then worse
Nardil 4/96 Felt worse
Serzone 7/96 Mild side effects, ineffective
Ritalin 8/96 Helps with tiredness
Asendin 8/96 Initial improvement, then worse
Xanax 10/96-99 Useful for occasional anxiety
Ambien 10/96-99 Useful for occasional insomnia
Neurontin 12/96 Less anxious, but ineffective for depression
Maprotiline 12/96 Jumbled thoughts, physical weakness
Clonidine 1/97 Helped with sleep and excess adrenaline; but
caused cold hands & irregular heartbeat.
Paxil 1/97 Add-in SSRI; felt impaired.
Nortriptyline 2/97 Got worse
Trazodone 3/97 Got worse
Ultram 3/97 Used adjunctively – helps only when already feeling somewhat better
Remeron 3/97 Agitated; irritable; nauseous
Effexor 5/97- present 75 mg/day not helping much
Pindolol 5/97-present Beta-blocker; helps w/adrenalin
Propulsid 5/97 For nausea
Ritalin 6/97- present Works effectively in combination
with Effexor, Cytomel and Pindolol.
Clonazepam 1/99 - present Helps improve rest and helps with Periodic Limb Movement Disorder.
Viagra 10/98 - present Helps with antidepressant-induced ED
Zyprexa 5/00 - present As needed to “re-set” or deal w/agitated, mixed hypomanic depression
Diazepam As needed
Provigil 7/01 – 12/01 Effective, yet couldn’t get anything done!Current regimen, 1 February 2002:
Cytomel 25 mcg/morning
Ritalin 20-30 mg/day OR
Dexidrine 10 to 15 mg/day
Pindolol 2.5 mg/morning/2.5 mg/evening
Effexor 150 mg/once a day (after breakfast)
Clonazepam .25 mg/every evening; occasionally .5 mgThe combination of Cytomel-Effexor-Ritalin-Pindolol has worked for me since June 21, 1997. I still experience my cyclic ups and downs, but they are much more manageable. I weighed 143 pounds (at 6'3") from the age of 19 until the age of 48. After 4-1/2 years on this regimen, I now weigh 175, and if I didn't have the metabolism of a hummingbird, I'd weigh 350 pounds!
When I started the *combination* there was nothing subtle about the change. It was as though a heavy, thick, black curtain lifted after four years of steadily worsening depression. Once it started working, *then* I could benefit from attending therapy again. Before that, I was completely adrift.
Hang in there!
With warm regards,
Mark H.
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 12, 2002, at 18:58:44
In reply to Re: Is this normal...? Yes i think so, posted by Anna Laura on February 12, 2002, at 11:51:30
A-L,
How long were you undepressed for? It sounds like you were problem free and even at the top of your game until one day depression hit and it's been a battle ever since. Have you ever had blips of hypomania or mild euphoria while taking AD's? If yes, that could be a sign of BP. Also,
What country are you from if you don't mind me asking? You mentioned I think that English isn't your native tongue..or maybe I misinterpreted..Scott
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 12, 2002, at 19:20:00
In reply to Re: Is this normal...?, posted by Mark H. on February 12, 2002, at 17:20:05
Thank MarkH,
That was yet another very helpful and thorough post!
Scott
Posted by Anna Laura on February 12, 2002, at 22:08:15
In reply to Re: Is this normal...? Yes i think so » Anna Laura, posted by Mr. Scott on February 12, 2002, at 18:58:44
> A-L,
>
> How long were you undepressed for? It sounds like you were problem free and even at the top of your game until one day depression hit and it's been a battle ever since. Have you ever had blips of hypomania or mild euphoria while taking AD's? If yes, that could be a sign of BP. Also,
> What country are you from if you don't mind me asking? You mentioned I think that English isn't your native tongue..or maybe I misinterpreted..
>
> Scott
Hi Mr. Scott,I've been hyperthymic till the age of 21.
I entered major depression's tunnel after severe and prolonged stress.
Unfortunately i was misdiagnosed, given benzos instead of AD.
Very often benzos are detrimental for depression since they're like a "fuel" for the beast.
If i only knew there were effective remedies for my illness i'd probably be healed by now.
Back then drugs such as Nomifensine and Amineptine were still available and easy to get. (Well, i guess it's too late for regrets).
That was way back in 1990, mid September.
After three years of benzos i became psychotic.
In 1993 I met a pdoc by pure accident (he was a friend of my boss) : he was caring and empatethic.
He prescribed me with Tofranil.
I grew better within a couple of years through hard work and intensive talk therapy.
I got rid of major depression, but i was left with residual depression ever since.
The most annoying persistent symptom has been anhedonia which i didn't manage to get rid of.
Most of my symptoms have been coming and going except anhedonia, that touch of grey that made everything so lifeless and meaningless.Despite of efforts and strives anhedonia staied like glued on me.I guess my main errors have been the following:
1. Dropping medication : I quit Tofranil in 1994 after a year and a half. My former pdoc convinced me that was the right thing to do and i trusted everything he said, so i followed his instructions and dropped Tofranil.
He was a talk-therapy/self initiative advocate, believing that one should react with his/her own resources, as long as the illness wasn't too severe.
Therefore he was persuaded (and persuaded me) that i had taken action against my illness and that i was responsible for my well-being.2. This is a consequence of part 1.
I never thought about medication again since i believed i was in control of depression and that it was up to me to get rid of residual symptoms.
Therefore, i never considered medication as a way out until last year when i got hit by double depression.
It was back then that i finally realized that meds did play a major role, and i've been searching for the right combo ever since.So, this is my brief story: I've never turned manic or hypomanic, with or without ADs.
It's been eleven years so far.
I'm still walking in this pitch black tunnel and the memory of how i used to feel keeps me going and hoping.
It's been such a long time, but i still can remember that touch of joy that made me feel so priviledged, the fresh speed of life running through my veins, that liquid ecstasy pouring inside my chest and down my legs, my body as a whole embracing the entire world.
Everything was suffused with a soft white light.
That's why i am resisting and keep on living.
May be i'm childlish, i don't know.p.s.
You asked what's my nationality: i'm italian.
Wishing you the best of luck, fellow suffererAnna Laura
Posted by anniebananie on February 13, 2002, at 18:53:43
In reply to Is this normal...?, posted by Mr. Scott on February 11, 2002, at 19:15:47
> Is it normal...
> To feel kind of speedy and like you can accomplish a lot, but also a bit nervous and anxious for a few days/weeks when starting a new AD (especially Wellbutrin/Effexor?Zoloft/Prozac)
>
> ScottThe last time I started Wellbutrin (first time on SR) it felt like bad speed, very unpleasant and I had the uncontrolable urge to smoke which I had not been doing for six months, but it only lasted three or four weeks. I think I may have popped a few of my "emergency xanax" during those weeks.
Good luck,
Annie
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 13, 2002, at 20:31:23
In reply to Re: Is this normal...? » Mr. Scott, posted by anniebananie on February 13, 2002, at 18:53:43
This is the end of the thread.
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