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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 10, 2002, at 15:22:30
Hello, Dinah,
yes fighting with Jason911 made me so angry that I really started to question whether psycho-babble is helping me or not & have decided to leave the site.It seems that on psycho-babble we read about side effects that -other people- have to normally effective medications & then we become 'supersensitive' to noticing or even anticipate that those side effects will occur in ourselves.
Medication support boards like Pyscho-Babble & also reading articles/books about psychopharmacology sometimes seem to breed some kind of 'psychiatric medication side effect "hypochondria". '
Perhaps more dangerously, I noticed in myself & many other 'psycho-babblers' that by reading this board & about psychopharmacology on the internet we begin to assume that we know better than our psychiatrist. Pyschiatrists have to go through medical school w/ psychiatry & psychopharmacology training & ~ seven years of residency in psychiatry (often in mental hospitals) & most have probably seen 'everything under the sun'. I recently overheard a doctor complain "now, with the internet, everyone's an instant expert!"
Additionally, many psycho-babblers engage in the potentially dangerous practice of augmenting their prescribed medications with other medications from over-the-counter, herbs, or overseas pharmacies (Adrafinil etc.) without their psychiatrist knowing about it. (I have been guilty of this too).
Also remember, we are not doctors, & should refrain from giving others medical advise! Even one incorrect recommendation could ruin someone's life!
I think Psycho Babble has negatively affected my treatment thus far, although I do think I have found the right Social Phobia/Bipolar/ADD combination for myself of Lamictal, Klonopin, & Provigil 200 mg/day (although for me, Dexedrine 5 mg 2x per day seemed to be greatly superior to Provigil for social phobia/social disinhibition).
I think the best treatment for myself at this point is to keep taking my medication combination & seeing my psychiatrist once per month, but stop reading psycho-babble & drug research. I also plan to make some positive 'real' life changes in the next few weeks such as getting a job I like, joining a gym & regularly exercising/lifting weights, going back to church every Sunday (not for everyone but it helps me), finding fun hobbies & sports that get me out of the house, maintain my sobriety (have since Sept. 11th), & most importantly hopefully find a beautiful steady girlfriend- or atleast start dating more often (two things that used to be difficult for me without a few drinks because of social phobia).
Thanks, & good luck to all.
3 Beers.> There are a few posts in this thread that can only make me assume that Dr. Bob is away this weekend.
> Really, it should be possible to discuss differences in opinion on meds without resorting to name calling. Jay is perfectly right. We should be civil to one another. > 3 Beer Effect, I read lower down that you're planning to leave this site. I hope it isn't over this. Dr. Bob usually keeps things in much better control.
> I really hate to butt in here. (I really do - BELIEVE ME.)
Posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 15:36:34
In reply to Psycho-Babble not helping anymore, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 10, 2002, at 15:22:30
I also stand corrected that erowid.org is ALSO erowid.com. Anyway, best of luck to you. Although I must diagree about the importance and effectiveness of the forum that you question. God bless -Jason911
> Hello, Dinah,
> yes fighting with Jason911 made me so angry that I really started to question whether psycho-babble is helping me or not & have decided to leave the site.
>
> It seems that on psycho-babble we read about side effects that -other people- have to normally effective medications & then we become 'supersensitive' to noticing or even anticipate that those side effects will occur in ourselves.
>
> Medication support boards like Pyscho-Babble & also reading articles/books about psychopharmacology sometimes seem to breed some kind of 'psychiatric medication side effect "hypochondria". '
>
> Perhaps more dangerously, I noticed in myself & many other 'psycho-babblers' that by reading this board & about psychopharmacology on the internet we begin to assume that we know better than our psychiatrist. Pyschiatrists have to go through medical school w/ psychiatry & psychopharmacology training & ~ seven years of residency in psychiatry (often in mental hospitals) & most have probably seen 'everything under the sun'. I recently overheard a doctor complain "now, with the internet, everyone's an instant expert!"
>
> Additionally, many psycho-babblers engage in the potentially dangerous practice of augmenting their prescribed medications with other medications from over-the-counter, herbs, or overseas pharmacies (Adrafinil etc.) without their psychiatrist knowing about it. (I have been guilty of this too).
>
> Also remember, we are not doctors, & should refrain from giving others medical advise! Even one incorrect recommendation could ruin someone's life!
>
> I think Psycho Babble has negatively affected my treatment thus far, although I do think I have found the right Social Phobia/Bipolar/ADD combination for myself of Lamictal, Klonopin, & Provigil 200 mg/day (although for me, Dexedrine 5 mg 2x per day seemed to be greatly superior to Provigil for social phobia/social disinhibition).
>
> I think the best treatment for myself at this point is to keep taking my medication combination & seeing my psychiatrist once per month, but stop reading psycho-babble & drug research. I also plan to make some positive 'real' life changes in the next few weeks such as getting a job I like, joining a gym & regularly exercising/lifting weights, going back to church every Sunday (not for everyone but it helps me), finding fun hobbies & sports that get me out of the house, maintain my sobriety (have since Sept. 11th), & most importantly hopefully find a beautiful steady girlfriend- or atleast start dating more often (two things that used to be difficult for me without a few drinks because of social phobia).
>
> Thanks, & good luck to all.
> 3 Beers.
>
> > There are a few posts in this thread that can only make me assume that Dr. Bob is away this weekend.
> > Really, it should be possible to discuss differences in opinion on meds without resorting to name calling. Jay is perfectly right. We should be civil to one another. > 3 Beer Effect, I read lower down that you're planning to leave this site. I hope it isn't over this. Dr. Bob usually keeps things in much better control.
> > I really hate to butt in here. (I really do - BELIEVE ME.)
Posted by lou pilder on February 10, 2002, at 16:50:12
In reply to Psycho-Babble not helping anymore, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 10, 2002, at 15:22:30
> Hello, Dinah,
> yes fighting with Jason911 made me so angry that I really started to question whether psycho-babble is helping me or not & have decided to leave the site.
>
> It seems that on psycho-babble we read about side effects that -other people- have to normally effective medications & then we become 'supersensitive' to noticing or even anticipate that those side effects will occur in ourselves.
>
> Medication support boards like Pyscho-Babble & also reading articles/books about psychopharmacology sometimes seem to breed some kind of 'psychiatric medication side effect "hypochondria". '
>
> Perhaps more dangerously, I noticed in myself & many other 'psycho-babblers' that by reading this board & about psychopharmacology on the internet we begin to assume that we know better than our psychiatrist. Pyschiatrists have to go through medical school w/ psychiatry & psychopharmacology training & ~ seven years of residency in psychiatry (often in mental hospitals) & most have probably seen 'everything under the sun'. I recently overheard a doctor complain "now, with the internet, everyone's an instant expert!"
>
> Additionally, many psycho-babblers engage in the potentially dangerous practice of augmenting their prescribed medications with other medications from over-the-counter, herbs, or overseas pharmacies (Adrafinil etc.) without their psychiatrist knowing about it. (I have been guilty of this too).
>
> Also remember, we are not doctors, & should refrain from giving others medical advise! Even one incorrect recommendation could ruin someone's life!
>
> I think Psycho Babble has negatively affected my treatment thus far, although I do think I have found the right Social Phobia/Bipolar/ADD combination for myself of Lamictal, Klonopin, & Provigil 200 mg/day (although for me, Dexedrine 5 mg 2x per day seemed to be greatly superior to Provigil for social phobia/social disinhibition).
>
> I think the best treatment for myself at this point is to keep taking my medication combination & seeing my psychiatrist once per month, but stop reading psycho-babble & drug research. I also plan to make some positive 'real' life changes in the next few weeks such as getting a job I like, joining a gym & regularly exercising/lifting weights, going back to church every Sunday (not for everyone but it helps me), finding fun hobbies & sports that get me out of the house, maintain my sobriety (have since Sept. 11th), & most importantly hopefully find a beautiful steady girlfriend- or atleast start dating more often (two things that used to be difficult for me without a few drinks because of social phobia).
>
> Thanks, & good luck to all.
> 3 Beers.
>
> > There are a few posts in this thread that can only make me assume that Dr. Bob is away this weekend.
> > Really, it should be possible to discuss differences in opinion on meds without resorting to name calling. Jay is perfectly right. We should be civil to one another. > 3 Beer Effect, I read lower down that you're planning to leave this site. I hope it isn't over this. Dr. Bob usually keeps things in much better control.
> > I really hate to butt in here. (I really do - BELIEVE ME3 Beers
Do not leave this group. Your contributions are just as good as anyone elses on this board. We are all on differrent roads. But we can learn from others expreiances and your input is valuable and if you leave, there will be a void left on the board. The input that you just gave is extremly valuable. If you leave, then your point of view will be lost. Nothing will grow unless you plant a seed. If you leave, your seed will not have a chance to grow. Perhaps, if you stay, a plant wil grow that would give shade to others, or blossem sweet- smelling flowers. Stay just a little bit longer. I have read your posts and they are contributory.
Lou
Posted by Anna Laura on February 10, 2002, at 17:36:05
In reply to Psycho-Babble not helping anymore, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 10, 2002, at 15:22:30
Perhaps more dangerously, I noticed in myself & many other 'psycho-babblers' that by reading this board & about psychopharmacology on the internet we begin to assume that we know better than our psychiatrist. Pyschiatrists have to go through medical school w/ psychiatry & psychopharmacology training & ~ seven years of residency in psychiatry (often in mental hospitals) & most have probably seen 'everything under the sun'. I recently overheard a doctor complain "now, with the internet, everyone's an instant expert!"
Hi 3 BeerI'm sorry to hear you're going to leave this board.
Nevertheless, you shouldn't assume that all Psychiatrists are experts, because it's not so. If they were the experts they claim to be, psycho babble board wouldn't exist.
I was misdiagnosed by a psichiatrist: i suffered from major depression and he gave me benzos at high doses. I kept getting worse and he said it was my fault cause i was a junkie. After three years i became psychotic.
I could have died because of that fatal error.
Thanks god i met another pdoc (a competent one this time) who gave the right medications.
I think many people on this board can relate to that, as we're sharing similar stories, not to mention those pdocs who still refuse to prescribe certain drugs such as Selelegine that have been proved to be very effective and that could be life savers for many of us.
I have been depressed for eleven years so far (i thank my first pdoc for that cause he made my depression chronic) and i would do anything possible to feel better and to regain a meaningful, worth living life.
Again, i'm sorry you're leaving but don't ever assume we're self medicating jerks or that this board it's not useful for some of us.
Posted by judy1 on February 10, 2002, at 18:01:04
In reply to Psycho-Babble not helping anymore, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 10, 2002, at 15:22:30
I think your decision to do the things you listed (church, working out,etc) are all healthy ways to deal with your disorder. Perhaps rather then leave you can try to be more selective in choosing the threads you get involved in- I, too, found myself getting triggered by certain people and try to stick to threads where I feel I can contribute and recognize the names of people I respect. I hope you decide to stay, but whatever your decision wish you well- judy
Posted by Dinah on February 10, 2002, at 18:14:19
In reply to Psycho-Babble not helping anymore, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 10, 2002, at 15:22:30
Judy has some very wise words for you. It is important for you to do all the things you mentioned. I just hate to see you leave out of anger. And I for one will be glad to see you back when or if the time is right for you.
Take care of yourself.
Dinah
Posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 18:19:24
In reply to Re: Psycho-Babble not helping....Wait a minute, posted by Anna Laura on February 10, 2002, at 17:36:05
Posted by OldSchool on February 10, 2002, at 19:13:40
In reply to Psycho-Babble not helping anymore, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 10, 2002, at 15:22:30
>
> Perhaps more dangerously, I noticed in myself & many other 'psycho-babblers' that by reading this board & about psychopharmacology on the internet we begin to assume that we know better than our psychiatrist. Pyschiatrists have to go through medical school w/ psychiatry & psychopharmacology training & ~ seven years of residency in psychiatry (often in mental hospitals) & most have probably seen 'everything under the sun'. I recently overheard a doctor complain "now, with the internet, everyone's an instant expert!"
>
>I dont agree at all. Many psychiatrists do not know what they are doing and many of them are incompetent. I talked to a lawyer once about this and he told me there are a lot of complaints about psychiatry...lots of people wanting to sue their psychiatrist. I wonder why that is? Maybe cause psychiatrists are practicing medicine and prescribing strong mind altering drugs with absolutely no diagnostic tests? Hmmmmm I wonder if that has anything to do with it?
I dont care if they have been to medical school. Many of them are still idiots...many of them are ridiculously stupid. Psychiatry is inherently subjective and unscientific. Its still heavily based in psychology to this very day...the year 2002.Trust me on this...I know from the school of hard knocks. It pays to be an educated mental patient. It doesnt pay to be a stupid uneducated mental patient who doesnt question the authority of psychiatry. I have had several psychiatrists who didnt know shit about their meds and if I had done what they wanted me to do, I would have ended up much sicker, utterly, totally miserable and possibly even dead.
I had one psychiatrist who told me it was safe and possible to combine an SSRI with an irreversible MAOI. Now is that not stupid or what? I could give you all kinds of other examples of pure stupidity in psychiatry that Ive experienced.
The best mental patient is the one who reads about their condition, can discuss medications intelligently with their doctor and cant be bullshitted and be given the idiot treatment.
When I think of psychiatry...I think of stupidity.
Old School
Posted by sid on February 10, 2002, at 20:26:18
In reply to Psycho-Babble not helping anymore, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 10, 2002, at 15:22:30
Well,
it sounds like you made some good decisions about some changes you want to make in your life. You'll probably benefit from these changes too, as they will make you feel good about yourself and your life.
You don't have to leave PB for that however, but if it's the way you feel like doing things, then I wish you good luck. I hope things go well for you. If you ever wonder how we're doing, you can come back talk to us. If not, that's fine too.
Whatever you do, go be happy!- sid
Posted by cisco on February 10, 2002, at 20:51:44
In reply to Psycho-Babble not helping anymore, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 10, 2002, at 15:22:30
Hey 3 Beer: >
I hear frustration in your words.
They say a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. I am much more afraid of ignorance, and a narrow point of view.The more information we have about a subject, or area of concern, in our lives, the better. Good information leads to good choices. I certainly don't expect anyone to watch over me, or look out for my best interests. It's all up to me.
Yes, there are times we DO know better than our psychiatrist, or our Doctor. And I will continue to second guess them. How impressed should I be with regard to someones medical training? Dr's do not become omnipotent after a few years of school, and a few months of Looney-bin training.
The internet is a remarkable resource. No, we are not all instant experts, but we all have access to cutting edge research and results. That is worth a lot.
I agree that self-medicating is a potentially dangerous practice. True, we are not doctors. But these are OUR bodies, and OUR minds. It is up to each individual to ultimately decide what substances go inside, and what style of clothing goes outside.
I am tempted to hide my head in the sand. But I don't want to miss something good walking by on the beach!
Cisco
Posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 21:01:04
In reply to Re: Psycho-Babble not helping anymore, posted by OldSchool on February 10, 2002, at 19:13:40
Posted by OldSchool on February 10, 2002, at 23:19:18
In reply to Re: Psycho-Babble not helping anymore, posted by cisco on February 10, 2002, at 20:51:44
> Yes, there are times we DO know better than our psychiatrist, or our Doctor. And I will continue to second guess them.
If I hadnt second guessed one or two of my past psychiatrists, I would have been DEAD a long time ago!! And thats a fact, not my personal opinion. I would have been dead years ago if I had stayed with my first psychiatrist and did everything he wanted me to do. In fact, when I decided to second guess him, he had made me markedly worse off. It was too late by then. Thats the number one thing a Medical Doctor is not supposed to do. Make a patient worse off than when they came to them.
> How impressed should I be with regard to someones medical training? Dr's do not become omnipotent after a few years of school, and a few months of Looney-bin training.
All I can say is Ive had too many psychiatrists who came across to me as Medical Doctors in title only. Yeah they have "MD" in their title, but honestly...who gives a shit? Maybe they do, but I dont. In my mind, most psychiatrists are just professional quacks and shit talkers. Well schooled in psychology shit talk, psychobabble and most of them really dont know all that much about meds.
I think what Im really looking for is a Neurologist who treats mental illness like its a real physical disease. With medical tests and all. And doesnt separate mind and body...or brain and body. Thats probably why I dislike psychiatry...I despise psychology and everything to do with it. Unfortunately, nothing like that really exists yet.
>
> The internet is a remarkable resource. No, we are not all instant experts, but we all have access to cutting edge research and results. That is worth a lot.
>
> I agree that self-medicating is a potentially dangerous practice. True, we are not doctors. But these are OUR bodies, and OUR minds. It is up to each individual to ultimately decide what substances go inside, and what style of clothing goes outside.
>Self medicating with the modern class psychiatry meds is actually pretty safe IMO. Its self medicating with booze, illegal recreational drugs, opiate painkillers and some of the older more toxic psychiatry drugs is where it is truly dangerous.
Psychiatry is a joke...just hand the whole thing over to Neurology and give it up.
Posted by Krazy Kat on February 11, 2002, at 6:26:15
In reply to Psycho-Babble not helping anymore, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 10, 2002, at 15:22:30
3Beer:
You might try Social for non-med support. For instance, folks on that baord might be able to help you stick with your goals (there are a lot of them imho :)).
Anyhoo, hope you don't leave.
- KK
Posted by jay on February 11, 2002, at 12:42:47
In reply to Re: Psycho-Babble not helping....Wait a minute, posted by Anna Laura on February 10, 2002, at 17:36:05
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 11, 2002, at 19:48:26
In reply to Re: Psycho-Babble not helping anymore » 3 Beer Effect, posted by Krazy Kat on February 11, 2002, at 6:26:15
> You might try Social for non-med support.
Right, that's where further messages of that type should be redirected. Thanks,
Bob
PS: And of course messages about posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration...
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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