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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 86 to 110 of 200. Go back in thread:
Posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 15:35:57
In reply to Two years is pathetic 3 beers!! » 3 Beer Effect, posted by Mr. Scott on February 9, 2002, at 14:40:17
Scott:
Are you kidding, or being serious? How would you suggest that someone "get busy" if they are taking say... an MAOI or Tricyclic? Even most SSRIs and Effexor impair sex quite significantly at robust therapeutic doses.
For me, there was always almost a direct relationship between how sexual I felt, and how depressed I was becoming. Any drug that was effective in taking away depression, took away at the very least, my ability to have sex. Some took away both the desire and the ability. Either is unacceptable. If you have a strong desire, but cannot perform, than what good is it? It becomes a trap of frustration.
Posted by OldSchool on February 9, 2002, at 15:36:47
In reply to Some Men's Attitude Towards Women, posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 14:47:24
> No wonder it seems like men & women can come from different worlds. Women generally equate sex with love, warmth, & a relationship. And many men generally equate it with recreation & release of tension.
LOL Thats basically what sex is from the male point of view. Recreation and a release of tension AKA "getting off." Men like to get off and roll over and fall asleep. Not very romantic, but in reality its how most men are.
>
> I agree with the women's viewpoint. If you really want good sex, men, you need to form a strong bond. Good sex without love is just an illusion. A great physical feeling at the time, but doesn't last beyond the act.LOL I could make a reply but Im going to hold off cause I dont want to be blocked. Id also like to say that I havent had a good sex drive in four years and its dropped off even more in the last year. Id love to be able to have "animal lust" feelings again. Ditch the romance stuff...Id just like to feel horny again for a change.
Old School
Posted by Geezer on February 9, 2002, at 16:02:18
In reply to Re: Two years is pathetic 3 beers!! » Mr. Scott, posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 15:35:57
I can feel a "Redirect" coming.
Posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 16:32:55
In reply to Re: Some Men's Attitude Towards Women » IsoM, posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 15:18:04
> IsoM:
>
> Are you male or female?My user name throws many off which is why I chose it - non-gender names seem to be more accepted by both sides & rarely get the flakey types trying to contact me (I don't mean any one on thse forums, but the seriously flakey).
So, did you guess right? Female.
I grew up with only brothers, played at school with mostly boys, hung out at university with mostly guys, & had nothing but sons. I've gained a fairly good insight into the male mind from friends & others.
Posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 16:36:16
In reply to Re: Some Men's Attitude Towards Women, posted by christophrejmc on February 9, 2002, at 15:34:05
> > "...Hmm, I must have bad luck. I've had both sex without love and love without sex (neither my decision) but never the two together. Perhaps it's just typical teenager stuff, but I haven't met anyone who's wanted both, male or female.
>
> I think both types of relationships can be fulfilling/unfulfilling for both partners; the key is not to mislead the other person."My opinion only but sex without love can leave you feeling empty. Love without sex sounds purely frustrating!
Posted by spike4848 on February 9, 2002, at 17:31:13
In reply to Re: Some Men's Attitude Towards Women » christophrejmc, posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 16:36:16
I just got out of a year relationship with a woman I loved .... sex was beautiful, passionate and I loved talking with her all night afterward! We never slept. Nardil made thing difficult ... if not impossible at times.
Spike
Posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 17:32:22
In reply to Re: Some Men's Attitude Towards Women » bob, posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 16:32:55
I always assumed you were a male on this board, until you just posted your view of what good sex is. It made me highly suspicious that you may actually be female. It is very hard for females to separate the sex act from emotional attachment etc. For males, it is not hard at all. Sex for sex's sake is very common in males. Sex may indeed be more fulfilling with care and love involved, but males simply don't need it to be horny.
Posted by spike4848 on February 9, 2002, at 17:40:09
In reply to Re: Some Men's Attitude Towards Women » IsoM, posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 15:18:04
Posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 17:53:03
In reply to Re: Some Men's Attitude Towards Women » IsoM, posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 17:32:22
IsoM may very well be a "Lady". I don't contend otherwise.
BTW, IsoM.... have you actually had trouble in the past with advances from male members on boards like this one?
Posted by Reneeb on February 9, 2002, at 18:14:18
In reply to Re: Attitude to Women-3 Beer Effect, posted by Cecilia on February 9, 2002, at 1:14:57
>
>Wow, this is disappointing. I thought we were here to support not degrade each other!!!!
Renee
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 9, 2002, at 18:38:12
In reply to Re: Two years is pathetic 3 beers!! » Mr. Scott, posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 15:35:57
> Scott:
>
> Are you kidding, or being serious? How would you suggest that someone "get busy" if they are taking say... an MAOI or Tricyclic? Even most SSRIs and Effexor impair sex quite significantly at robust therapeutic doses.
>
> For me, there was always almost a direct relationship between how sexual I felt, and how depressed I was becoming. Any drug that was effective in taking away depression, took away at the very least, my ability to have sex. Some took away both the desire and the ability. Either is unacceptable. If you have a strong desire, but cannot perform, than what good is it? It becomes a trap of frustration.Of course I'm kidding... I was a little shocked at 3Beers use of such wording on a public forum. I hope I wasn't accidentally offensive..
Scott
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 9, 2002, at 18:57:10
In reply to You won't get any flak from me... » bob, posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 17:53:03
Bob,
I would like to place you in charge of the new Psychobabble dating service. You can pair up nutsos with eachother. For instance two people who take Wellbutrin might want to get busy without any foreplay, while the Nardil takers who have in advance agreed to a strictly platonic relationship (not by choice of course) might make for a fitting match.
Alternatively you might want to pair up a couple where one is ADHD and one is OCD since opposites tend to attract.
I'm laughing out loud over here after sleeping all day and taking Effexor even though I'm certain I am BP II and am woried I need more mood stabilizer in my diet.
Scott
Posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 19:04:51
In reply to You won't get any flak from me... » bob, posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 17:53:03
> > "...BTW, IsoM.... have you actually had trouble in the past with advances from male members on boards like this one?"
Yeah, I have. I try to keep my tone very non-gender unless I'm 'talking' with another woman. Then I don't worry about guarding what I might say or imply.
One example, when Napster first became popular, I was busy downloading lots of mp3s. Because we had a huge library of songs (over 1,400) & a very fast connection, we allowed others to upload from us. I was typing info to help one person not familiar with how it worked & he started asking questions. It was a 18 yr old kid who somehow thought he'd found his "princess". When I told him he was younger than any of my sons, he freaked, thinking I had led him on!! I showed the messages to my 19 yr old & he cracked up. He said he couldn't figure out how he ever thought that.
That was the funniest but others were annoying so I'm reluctant to give out e-mail address or say much.
Posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 19:05:34
In reply to Re: Attitude to Women-3 Beer Effect, posted by Reneeb on February 9, 2002, at 18:14:18
> >
> >
>
> Wow, this is disappointing. I thought we were here to support not degrade each other!!!!
>
>
> ReneeTo whom is your post directed? I don't believe I've degraded anyone.
Posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 19:08:53
In reply to Re: You won't get any flak from me... » bob, posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 19:04:51
It's not surprising to me that you would get a response like that on a board dedicated to music, but it would surprise me very much on this board. I've never seen anything like that here (at least on the medication related board).
Posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 19:09:03
In reply to Last time, IsoM is a geniune, pure Lady! (nm) » bob, posted by spike4848 on February 9, 2002, at 17:40:09
Spike, again I say - thank you so much. I just try to be careful & tactful of what I say & try to see ideas from others' viewpoint (applied empathy) - something either sex can do. :-)
Love plus sex *does* equal perfection, doesn't it? I won't settle for less.
Posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 19:13:42
In reply to Re: You won't get any flak from me... » IsoM, posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 19:08:53
I wouldn't expect any response like that here either, but it's just become the way I 'talk' on forums period (when I do use them). :-)
Posted by Reneeb on February 9, 2002, at 20:06:51
In reply to Re: Attitude to Women-3 Beer Effect » Reneeb, posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 19:05:34
> > >
Bob, It wasn't intended for you. I believe the name on the posting was 3 Beer Effect. It's MY opinion that you should think about who you might offend when you make comments like "The b*tch was fat".
Posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 23:52:51
In reply to Re: Attitude to Women-3 Beer Effect » bob, posted by Reneeb on February 9, 2002, at 20:06:51
> > > >
> Bob, It wasn't intended for you. I believe the name on the posting was 3 Beer Effect. It's MY opinion that you should think about who you might offend when you make comments like "The b*tch was fat".==================================================
I don't think you'll get much arguement about your opinion on that one.
Posted by ethan on February 10, 2002, at 0:05:16
In reply to Re: Some Men's Attitude Towards Women, posted by OldSchool on February 9, 2002, at 15:36:47
Well, I don't know your condition or what you're taking but I hear you cuz I been there done that.
I will not tolerate sexual side effects with these drugs (it isn't a matter of whether I can or not -- I simply WILL not). I've been down the Paxil and Zoloft roads (forget Prozac) and found that for me the loss of sexual function exacerbated my depression GREATLY, while the drug's "benefit" was simply to flatten out my personality and mood. This is called "Turning Into A Zombie."
The loss of sexual function made me more frustrated than I had been, made me isolate because I was ashamed I couldn't "function" anymore, and the damage from those months and years of trying these drugs have taken their toll on my self-esteem. Today the meds I take are not supposed to have sexual side effects, and yet I still have difficulties -- which are no doubt the aftermath of being put through the ringer with drugs that adversely affect sexual function, along with the original and continuing effects of the depression.
I know you're joking about the hooker (maybe not), and it's good to see you're trying to make light of the problem through humor, but the long term psychological damage sexual dysfunction can have on you is NOT GOOD.
Advice that was given me and which I pass along is:
Talk to your doctor about getting OFF the meds you are on that are robbing you of your sex drive OR see whether you can add a med that makes you more spunky (i.e., the side effects of one drug that offsets the side effects of another drug. Serzone was quoted me as one drug that can offset sexual side effects in other drugs, for example...WB is anot supposed to adversely affect sex drive, etc.
Naturally it depends on what is wrong with you, what you have tried before and what does and doesn't work for your condition (we all respond differently to different drugs and as much as the docs know about the meds they are still in the dark about plenty -- hence we are all our own guinea pigs). If sexual side effects are bothering you even a little you have to take that seriously and demand your pdoc look into and discuss with you every other treatment possibility available for your condition.
A lot has to do with diet and exercise, too. Exercise especially. Most of us are sitting on our beee-hinds typing away on this BB when we could be getting a half hour of aerobic exercise (even just fast walking). I know that's a big issue for me, one which definitely also affects my capacity to function sexually. I bet most of us with depression don't exercise nearly enough, and if we did we might be able to take less meds to get enough benefit and deal with less side effects. Just a thought my doc passed along to me.
For men especially to be robbed of their sexual identity (being relegated to the status of eunuch) is perhaps the most discouraging and underrated liability of taking psychotropic medications which adversely affect sex drive. Whether it's right or wrong, many men equate their intrinsic self worth with their ability to "rise" to various sexual occasions (so to speak). That aspect of man isn't going to change. It is, however, up to each of us to work with our doctors to find solutions to our conditions that do not emasculate us.
Sex is one of the easiest things to find in this world if you really want it. There are plenty of people who are willing to have sex for a price, infinitely more who would be willing to do so "recreationally" if approached with respect and honesty. Not isolating and making ourselves available to potential partners is part of the problem also. We can sit on a BB and type away and not be "out there" meeting people. Incidentally, as soon as I finish typing this, I'm outa here to head up to the local watering hole and see if I get lucky. It takes forcing yourself to be social, or else go to a strip club and get a lap dance, or whatever. But don't isolate. Perhaps the worst thing about drugs that rob us of our sexual abilities is that we are even denied the ability to masturbate.
It's our choice whether we take the drugs prescribed for us and when we find the sexual side effects ruining us, our responsibility to take action. Believe me, I know -- I learned the "hard" way (bad pun).
ethan
> > No wonder it seems like men & women can come from different worlds. Women generally equate sex with love, warmth, & a relationship. And many men generally equate it with recreation & release of tension.
>
> LOL Thats basically what sex is from the male point of view. Recreation and a release of tension AKA "getting off." Men like to get off and roll over and fall asleep. Not very romantic, but in reality its how most men are.
>
> >
> > I agree with the women's viewpoint. If you really want good sex, men, you need to form a strong bond. Good sex without love is just an illusion. A great physical feeling at the time, but doesn't last beyond the act.
>
> LOL I could make a reply but Im going to hold off cause I dont want to be blocked. Id also like to say that I havent had a good sex drive in four years and its dropped off even more in the last year. Id love to be able to have "animal lust" feelings again. Ditch the romance stuff...Id just like to feel horny again for a change.
>
> Old School
Posted by bob on February 10, 2002, at 0:31:16
In reply to Sexual Side Effects SUCK (ok, bad choice of words), posted by ethan on February 10, 2002, at 0:05:16
Ethan:
I don't know what drugs you've found that have freed you from any sexual dysfunction whatsoever, but I'd contend that you're a rare bird indeed. Most males (and many females) experience sexual dysfunction on the meds and they live with it, because it's hard enough to find something that makes them feel better. I fear it's not as simple as not accepting it. Often people are trying to save their own lives. Usually during these times of crisis, sex takes the back burner. Of course, after the sex problem is solved one day, then there'll be the weight gain issue. That one doesn't exactly do wonders for people's self-esteem either.
Bob
Posted by christophrejmc on February 10, 2002, at 1:03:16
In reply to Re: Some Men's Attitude Towards Women » christophrejmc, posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 16:36:16
> My opinion only but sex without love can leave you feeling empty. Love without sex sounds purely frustrating!
I agree. By love without sex, I sorta meant any intimate contact at all. It wasn't so frustrating, but it led to some feelings of insecurity, inferiority, etc.
...
> It was a 18 yr old kid who somehow thought he'd found his "princess". When I told him he was younger than any of my sons, he freaked, thinking I had led him on!!
Not too old for me, sweety! (20/m/USA/will travel. wanna hook up?! ;) (Have you seen Harold & Maude?)
Posted by IsoM on February 10, 2002, at 2:07:39
In reply to Re: Some Men's Attitude Towards Women » IsoM, posted by christophrejmc on February 10, 2002, at 1:03:16
Hey, I'm not as old as Maude!
I feel real weird saying this but I'm always being mistaken for someone in my late 30s which is silly. But I guess it pays to stay healthy & active. My idea was that so many people when older have such miserable health & so many physical problems that they can't enjoy life. I didn't ever want to get pathetic like that so I resolved to stay fit & look after myself. It wasn't to 'preserve' my looks but it helps. That & the fact I never was a sun worshipper or smoker, 'cept for 2 years when young.
Thanks for the offer :-) but now that I'm single again, it feels good not to always be answering to someone & doing what they want all the time.
(I know you were only joking - but you put a smile on my face.)
Posted by ethan on February 10, 2002, at 4:15:54
In reply to Re: Sexual Side Effects SUCK (ok, bad choice of words) » ethan, posted by bob on February 10, 2002, at 0:31:16
Yeah, I was near suicide when I asked for help in 1992. So don't patronize me with the "some people are trying to save their lives" stuff. Of course they're trying to save their lives -- so am I; you think I'm on medication because I Want To Be???
It's all a big compromise, and one concession I refuse to make anymore is the sexual side effects. When I read people complaining about sexual side effects I encourage them to talk to their doctors about whether their medication can be modified. What's Wrong With THAT?
Since I went on meds back in the early 90s I've been on just about any and everything they can try on me, with sometimes benefits and sometimes not. What you say about all medications producing sexual side effects which adversely reduce sexual function is simply NOT TRUE. Not ALL drugs do this. SSRIs do, but some may do this less than others, and it's better to TRY something else in case it is a more appropriate choice than settle for a life of sexual purgatory.
Exercise and socializing (rather than isolating) also have more to do with saving lives from mental illness than you may be imagining. Without either the medications are simply Not Enough. For those who think their sex lives are "over" (and believe me, on Paxil that's just what happened to me), there are alternatives. But it takes diligence and experimentation.
Wellbutrin does not depress my sex drive. When I was on Serzone with the Wellbutrin my sex drive actually increased. Serzone made me dopey, so I had to stop it. I nearly crashed my car on that stuff. But it might work for someone else. The important thing is to be proactive with the doctor and insist on being given information about every possiblity available rather than just "settle" for whatever the doctor prescribes. I've seen people in group do this, completely unaware of the fact that their are other drugs out there than Prozac, Paxil, and Zoloft.
I'm not unsympathetic with anyone who is placing as a lower priority their sexual function over other matters; that's a matter of choice. However the benefits of medication for ME were never good enough compared with the sexual side effects. I know others feel the same. It's a topic that warrants discussion.
So please don't tell me it's hard enough to fiind something that makes you feel better -- I've been there and I know that, and sometimes those drugs make you feel worse because of the side effects. There's nothing worse in treating depresesion to find drugs that work that you can not tolerate -- it's worse still when you are torn over living a life of sexual abstinence (as though you are being punished for getting well).
I never said I was freed of sexual dysfunction. You obviously read into what I wrote, not what I wrote. I still have problems -- but the drugs are likely no longer the main issue. Now my concern over these drugs is whether I can tolerate the other side effects (and that's a whole other story). But I would encourage anyone on SSRIs to talk to their doctor and insist on being given alternatives, IF they are unhappy with their sex lives as a result of the medication.
ethan
> Ethan:
>
> I don't know what drugs you've found that have freed you from any sexual dysfunction whatsoever, but I'd contend that you're a rare bird indeed. Most males (and many females) experience sexual dysfunction on the meds and they live with it, because it's hard enough to find something that makes them feel better. I fear it's not as simple as not accepting it. Often people are trying to save their own lives. Usually during these times of crisis, sex takes the back burner. Of course, after the sex problem is solved one day, then there'll be the weight gain issue. That one doesn't exactly do wonders for people's self-esteem either.
>
> Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2002, at 9:23:34
In reply to I know, I haven't got laid in 2 years!, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 8, 2002, at 22:42:36
>I know, I haven't gotten laid in 2 years & that b*tch was fat (good thing I was wasted drunk at the time)! Of course I live in Texas where you practically have to marry a girl to have sex with her.
Please don't post anything that might lead others to feel put down or might offend them, thanks.
Bob
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