![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 50. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dona on February 9, 2002, at 13:14:28
I have had a major problem with sleeping pills ever since I was in nursing school. I never sleep well so I would always experimate with different meds. I take 60mg of prozac for depression and am doing fairly well if if were not for the sleeping pill problem that rears its ugly head about once a month. Ambien is my drug of choice and I had my husband monitoring them, but then I got some more in the mail and for two days just stayed stoned. I do not want to go into a treatemnt center. Do you think a contract with my husband and my promise to buy no more will work?? I know you don't really know me, but I am terrified of inpatient treatment and most of the time I function well. Thanks
Posted by Eloy on February 9, 2002, at 14:00:34
In reply to Can I withdraw from sleeping pill addiction at hom, posted by Dona on February 9, 2002, at 13:14:28
> I have had a major problem with sleeping pills ever since I was in nursing school. I never sleep well so I would always experimate with different meds. I take 60mg of prozac for depression and am doing fairly well if if were not for the sleeping pill problem that rears its ugly head about once a month. Ambien is my drug of choice and I had my husband monitoring them, but then I got some more in the mail and for two days just stayed stoned. I do not want to go into a treatemnt center. Do you think a contract with my husband and my promise to buy no more will work?? I know you don't really know me, but I am terrified of inpatient treatment and most of the time I function well. Thanks
Yes, i see no harm in contracting with your spouse. i have a lot of respect for medicine. Medicines can be addictive, and they can also cause other problems (some becoming serious, like cancer or stroke or seizures or heart attack or even fatalities), that's why i don't like using any kind of medicine unless i really really and absolutely have too, and then i want to use only the safest and mildest and least damaging to my health. i'm a born again Christian, and i can vouch that prayer helps with sleep and also in every area of my life.
Posted by AnneL on February 9, 2002, at 14:23:03
In reply to Can I withdraw from sleeping pill addiction at hom, posted by Dona on February 9, 2002, at 13:14:28
> I am sorry to that you are having problems with an addiction problem. Addiction is serious and treatable. I urge you to seek professional help.
Treatment does not always mean going in as an inpatient. Even though your spouse is willing to help you with a "contract", it is emotionally unhealthy for a friend, spouse, lover, etc., to become involved to that extent in your recovery.
Recovery is a ongoing process whereby relapse is also an expected part of recovery. Please see a professional for help. Ultimately you may sacrifice not only your marital relationship with your current strategy, but you are also gambling on your life. Realizing you have an addiction is step one. Asking for help is step 2. Asking for help from the right people who understand the uniqueness of this illness is of utmost importance. After all, you would not expect your husband to "cure" you of cancer, would you? Good luck to you and I commend your courage. :) Anne
Posted by geno on February 9, 2002, at 18:24:19
In reply to Re: Can I withdraw from sleeping pill addiction at hom » Dona, posted by AnneL on February 9, 2002, at 14:23:03
> > I am sorry to that you are having problems with an addiction problem. Addiction is serious and treatable. I urge you to seek professional help.
> Treatment does not always mean going in as an inpatient. Even though your spouse is willing to help you with a "contract", it is emotionally unhealthy for a friend, spouse, lover, etc., to become involved to that extent in your recovery.
> Recovery is a ongoing process whereby relapse is also an expected part of recovery. Please see a professional for help. Ultimately you may sacrifice not only your marital relationship with your current strategy, but you are also gambling on your life. Realizing you have an addiction is step one. Asking for help is step 2. Asking for help from the right people who understand the uniqueness of this illness is of utmost importance. After all, you would not expect your husband to "cure" you of cancer, would you? Good luck to you and I commend your courage. :) AnneTake 30mg of remeron and 10mg abmien to restore proper seratonin levels
geno
Posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 23:32:29
In reply to Can I withdraw from sleeping pill addiction at hom, posted by Dona on February 9, 2002, at 13:14:28
Dona, I think AnneL's advice is right on. It doesn't matter how supportive, loving, & willing your husband is to help out, it's not emotionally fair to involve him to that depth. When the two of you married, you agreed to help & stick by each other always. He's there for you in so many ways, I'm sure, but to expect him to shoulder the burden as your therapist too, in a sense, is placing too heavy a responsibility on him.
Consider if you fail in your effort to break this dependency on Ambien. Who's going to feel more responsible & shattered? You or your husband? You're unintentionally putting his emotional health in your hands. It 'may' even make him grow to resent your dependence for your emotional health on him & not yourself.
Seek out-patient support & help instead for this. The psychological addiction may be even stronger than the physical one - I don't know; & a trained professional would be more able to give the objective help you need. Your husband can't separate his own feelings from his help. He'll still be there to support & love you, giving you all the emotional help you'll need too in this fight.
Posted by lou pilder on February 10, 2002, at 7:34:19
In reply to withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home? » Dona, posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 23:32:29
> Dona, I think AnneL's advice is right on. It doesn't matter how supportive, loving, & willing your husband is to help out, it's not emotionally fair to involve him to that depth. When the two of you married, you agreed to help & stick by each other always. He's there for you in so many ways, I'm sure, but to expect him to shoulder the burden as your therapist too, in a sense, is placing too heavy a responsibility on him.
>
> Consider if you fail in your effort to break this dependency on Ambien. Who's going to feel more responsible & shattered? You or your husband? You're unintentionally putting his emotional health in your hands. It 'may' even make him grow to resent your dependence for your emotional health on him & not yourself.
>
> Seek out-patient support & help instead for this. The psychological addiction may be even stronger than the physical one - I don't know; & a trained professional would be more able to give the objective help you need. Your husband can't separate his own feelings from his help. He'll still be there to support & love you, giving you all the emotional help you'll need too in this fight.Donna;
I have been through the horrific withdraw from a benzodiazapine that you are going to suffer. You are to contact Yvonne Day by getting her number in Columbus, Ohio. She will be the best support person for you being freed from the horrible injustice that that you are going to experiance. Although I did not use the method to be withdrawn that she will give you, she will be the best support person in the world for the ttype of method that she prescribes. She is the head of the benzodiazepine withdraw group from England stationed in the US. When you talk to her, just say that a friend recccommended that you call her.
Lou
Posted by Elizabeth on February 11, 2002, at 9:22:39
In reply to Re: withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home?, posted by lou pilder on February 10, 2002, at 7:34:19
Lou says:
> I have been through the horrific withdraw from a benzodiazapine that you are going to suffer.Ambien isn't a benzodiazepine. Ambien withdrawal is generally mild and is definitely not associated with any serious risk. As Dr. Bob said elsewhere, please don't use scare tactics.
Dona, I think your idea of working with your husband to get and stay off sleeping pills is a good one. It's great that you have someone who can help and support you. Even if you've been taking it every day, you don't need to check into a hospital or rehab center to discontinue Ambien. It would also be a good idea to ask your doctor to switch to a different type of sleeping medication, such as a sedating antidepressant or antihistamine, that you're less likely to get in trouble with. Even if you don't want to tell your doctor about your problems, you should take steps to avoid the temptation of getting more prescriptions for Ambien or for any other drugs that you've been abusing.
If working with your husband doesn't work, I'd suggest talking to your doctor or therapist about your problems. I don't recommend going to a stranger.
-elizabeth
Posted by lou pilder on February 11, 2002, at 10:13:43
In reply to Re: withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home?, posted by Elizabeth on February 11, 2002, at 9:22:39
> Lou says:
> > I have been through the horrific withdraw from a benzodiazapine that you are going to suffer.
>
> Ambien isn't a benzodiazepine. Ambien withdrawal is generally mild and is definitely not associated with any serious risk. As Dr. Bob said elsewhere, please don't use scare tactics.
>
> Dona, I think your idea of working with your husband to get and stay off sleeping pills is a good one. It's great that you have someone who can help and support you. Even if you've been taking it every day, you don't need to check into a hospital or rehab center to discontinue Ambien. It would also be a good idea to ask your doctor to switch to a different type of sleeping medication, such as a sedating antidepressant or antihistamine, that you're less likely to get in trouble with. Even if you don't want to tell your doctor about your problems, you should take steps to avoid the temptation of getting more prescriptions for Ambien or for any other drugs that you've been abusing.
>
> If working with your husband doesn't work, I'd suggest talking to your doctor or therapist about your problems. I don't recommend going to a stranger.
>
> -elizabet
elizabeth;
Ambian is just like a benzodiazepine. It is addicting and it will produce a withdraw syndrome similar to a benzodiazepine. Someone has lied to you if they told you that this drug will not produce a withdraw syndrome simlar to a benzodiazepine and that it is not addicting. All of those sleeping pills should not be takn for morethan 10 days or the person will become addicted. These dugs do not descriminate. All those that are addicted will suffer withdraw symptoms upon discontinuation if they have take them for over 10 days. And he longer anyoe ha take thm , and the more that thy have taken them, the worse te withdraw will be. I have gone through the withdraw andit was horrific to me. I have corrosponded with hundresds of people that have also experianced the same. I know of people that can not get off of this drugfor they cannot bare the horrific withdraw symptoms. I know of people thathave had their lives ruined from these horrible drugs. Yvonne Day isthe formost authority on helping peopl withdraw from these drugs. She reprsents the Ashton Clinic in England and knows more about thisthan doctors do. The doctors probably did not tell her that the drug was addictive. They probaly lied to her and now she is sufering from that lie. Sh can overcome the withdraw but she will need the help from the expert. Yvonne Day is a tremendous expert on this subject. She went through the withdraw herself. If yo know of someone that is more of an expert then referr her to them. There is a way out for her and I am trying to help her by haveing her contact Yvonne Day. What could she loose?
Lou
Posted by Elizabeth on February 11, 2002, at 12:22:15
In reply to Re: withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home? » Elizabeth, posted by lou pilder on February 11, 2002, at 10:13:43
Lou,
You might want to read up on the chemistry and molecular and clinical pharmacology of benzodiazepines vs. zolpidem (which is not a benzodiazepine). There are similarities, including a partially shared mechanism of action, but they aren't the same thing. It cannot be assumed that a statement about benzodiazepines also applies to zolpidem. Of particular relevance, zolpidem doesn't generally cause serious withdrawal symptoms; some people have rebound insomnia upon discontinuing zolpidem, but even this is generally mild. The main serious symptom that is (occasionally) associated with benzodiazepine withdrawal -- seizures -- is not seen with zolpidem at all (this is unsurprising, since zolpidem is not an anticonvulsant). Zolpidem withdrawal symptoms are often absent altogether, and if they are present, they are generally milder than benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms.
It is true that benzodiazepines can be difficult to discontinue and that it can be dangerous to stop taking a benzodiazepine abruptly after long-term use, but hospitalization is probably not necessary for most people. Decreasing the dose very gradually is the most effective strategy.
Try to be a little more careful about making generalizations, okay? Sharing your experience is one thing, but telling someone else that she will have the same experience as you did is not at all reasonable.
-elizabeth
Posted by lou pilder on February 11, 2002, at 13:51:39
In reply to Re: withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home? » lou pilder, posted by Elizabeth on February 11, 2002, at 12:22:15
> Lou,
>
> You might want to read up on the chemistry and molecular and clinical pharmacology of benzodiazepines vs. zolpidem (which is not a benzodiazepine). There are similarities, including a partially shared mechanism of action, but they aren't the same thing. It cannot be assumed that a statement about benzodiazepines also applies to zolpidem. Of particular relevance, zolpidem doesn't generally cause serious withdrawal symptoms; some people have rebound insomnia upon discontinuing zolpidem, but even this is generally mild. The main serious symptom that is (occasionally) associated with benzodiazepine withdrawal -- seizures -- is not seen with zolpidem at all (this is unsurprising, since zolpidem is not an anticonvulsant). Zolpidem withdrawal symptoms are often absent altogether, and if they are present, they are generally milder than benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms.
>
> It is true that benzodiazepines can be difficult to discontinue and that it can be dangerous to stop taking a benzodiazepine abruptly after long-term use, but hospitalization is probably not necessary for most people. Decreasing the dose very gradually is the most effective strategy.
>
> Try to be a little more careful about making generalizations, okay? Sharing your experience is one thing, but telling someone else that she will have the same experience as you did is not at all reasonable.
>
> -elizabethElizabeth
You seem to know a lot about this drug. Iam only wanting to help this person and if we all answer her plea, then perhaps one of us can help her with our expeiances. You are right, I can only talk for myself. Butwe shold all be able to talk about what we know to be true to us. I believe in the right for all people to expess their opinion and on this board I think that it wil be of great benifit to those who are reaching out for help. We give what we know and we contribute. It is the people tha remain silent that are dangerous.
Lou
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 11, 2002, at 19:40:50
In reply to Re: withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home? » Elizabeth, posted by lou pilder on February 11, 2002, at 13:51:39
> Iam only wanting to help this person and if we all answer her plea, then perhaps one of us can help her with our expeiances. You are right, I can only talk for myself... I believe in the right for all people to expess their opinion and on this board I think that it wil be of great benifit to those who are reaching out for help. We give what we know and we contribute. It is the people tha remain silent that are dangerous.
It's not just remaining silent that can be dangerous. It's fine to share *experiences* here, but *opinions* are another matter. Please don't exaggerate or overgeneralize, thanks.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by Elizabeth on February 14, 2002, at 16:56:17
In reply to Re: withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home? » Elizabeth, posted by lou pilder on February 11, 2002, at 13:51:39
Lou,
I think that it's important to get one's information from different sources, if possible. I read up on Ambien and asked my pdoc about his experience with it before I started taking it. I decided to try it precisely because of its differences from benzodiazepines (its only known mechanism of action is selective activation of one subtype of benzodiazepine receptor). I continued to be interested in it after I started taking it, and I took note of my own response to it. Finally, I listened to other people's remarks about it, on boards like this one and in RL support groups. I think this has given me a fairly good idea of what the typical effects of Ambien are. As I've said, my impression has been that withdrawal symptoms, if any, consist mainly of rebound insomnia, and that this is generally brief. That doesn't mean that nobody has bad withdrawal reactions, but they are the exception, not the rule. Similarly, tolerance is very rare. In contrast, I wouldn't recommend benzodiazepines for long-term insomnia, as a rule; people who take benzos for very long tend to become tolerant to their sedating effects, and discontinuing benzos after long-term use can be difficult and even potentially dangerous (although it's quite possible to do it safely as long as you exercise some patience).
-elizabeth
Posted by lou pilder on February 14, 2002, at 17:03:45
In reply to Re: withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home? » lou pilder, posted by Elizabeth on February 14, 2002, at 16:56:17
> Lou,
>
> I think that it's important to get one's information from different sources, if possible. I read up on Ambien and asked my pdoc about his experience with it before I started taking it. I decided to try it precisely because of its differences from benzodiazepines (its only known mechanism of action is selective activation of one subtype of benzodiazepine receptor). I continued to be interested in it after I started taking it, and I took note of my own response to it. Finally, I listened to other people's remarks about it, on boards like this one and in RL support groups. I think this has given me a fairly good idea of what the typical effects of Ambien are. As I've said, my impression has been that withdrawal symptoms, if any, consist mainly of rebound insomnia, and that this is generally brief. That doesn't mean that nobody has bad withdrawal reactions, but they are the exception, not the rule. Similarly, tolerance is very rare. In contrast, I wouldn't recommend benzodiazepines for long-term insomnia, as a rule; people who take benzos for very long tend to become tolerant to their sedating effects, and discontinuing benzos after long-term use can be difficult and even potentially dangerous (although it's quite possible to do it safely as long as you exercise some patience).
>
> -elizabethElizebeth;
I have read so many reports that are saying something much different than you are saying about Ambian. Onr report says that it a favorered drug on the street for drug addicts. Other reports show withdraw as bad as BZs. Do yu want me to share those with you. ?
Lou
Posted by Dona on February 14, 2002, at 19:49:25
In reply to Re: withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home?, posted by lou pilder on February 14, 2002, at 17:03:45
I appreciate the input but am still very confused as to what to do. I saw a pain and addiction "specialist" today and he told me I am truly addicted and need a treatment program. That is very scary because I do not want to go to a hospital and even though I know I have cravings for this pill, I believed I could somehow get over this. Also, I never told the truth to my primary psych--how do I do that now? I feel like such a crummy person.
Posted by lou pilder on February 14, 2002, at 19:59:36
In reply to Re: withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home?, posted by Dona on February 14, 2002, at 19:49:25
> I appreciate the input but am still very confused as to what to do. I saw a pain and addiction "specialist" today and he told me I am truly addicted and need a treatment program. That is very scary because I do not want to go to a hospital and even though I know I have cravings for this pill, I believed I could somehow get over this. Also, I never told the truth to my primary psych--how do I do that now? I feel like such a crummy person.
Donna;
There is a whole group that will help you witdraw from ambian. I have withdrawn from a benzodiazepine and your withdral is supposed to be no worse than that. IfI can do it, you ca do it also. Contact Yvonne Day in Columbus , Ohio. She will tell you how yo can withdraw.
Lou
Posted by Greg on February 14, 2002, at 21:03:23
In reply to Re: withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home?, posted by lou pilder on February 14, 2002, at 17:03:45
> > Lou,
> >
> > I think that it's important to get one's information from different sources, if possible. I read up on Ambien and asked my pdoc about his experience with it before I started taking it. I decided to try it precisely because of its differences from benzodiazepines (its only known mechanism of action is selective activation of one subtype of benzodiazepine receptor). I continued to be interested in it after I started taking it, and I took note of my own response to it. Finally, I listened to other people's remarks about it, on boards like this one and in RL support groups. I think this has given me a fairly good idea of what the typical effects of Ambien are. As I've said, my impression has been that withdrawal symptoms, if any, consist mainly of rebound insomnia, and that this is generally brief. That doesn't mean that nobody has bad withdrawal reactions, but they are the exception, not the rule. Similarly, tolerance is very rare. In contrast, I wouldn't recommend benzodiazepines for long-term insomnia, as a rule; people who take benzos for very long tend to become tolerant to their sedating effects, and discontinuing benzos after long-term use can be difficult and even potentially dangerous (although it's quite possible to do it safely as long as you exercise some patience).
> >
> > -elizabeth
>
> Elizebeth;
> I have read so many reports that are saying something much different than you are saying about Ambian. Onr report says that it a favorered drug on the street for drug addicts. Other reports show withdraw as bad as BZs. Do yu want me to share those with you. ?
> LouIf you could post the links to these reports I would like very much to see them. I have been taking Ambien for over two years for insomnia. I have stopped on a few occasions and have experienced nothing more than a little temporary rebound insomnia. I've certainly never heard of Ambien being a drug of choice for street addicts.
Greg
Posted by lou pilder on February 14, 2002, at 21:25:03
In reply to Re: withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home? » lou pilder, posted by Greg on February 14, 2002, at 21:03:23
> > > Lou,
> > >
> > > I think that it's important to get one's information from different sources, if possible. I read up on Ambien and asked my pdoc about his experience with it before I started taking it. I decided to try it precisely because of its differences from benzodiazepines (its only known mechanism of action is selective activation of one subtype of benzodiazepine receptor). I continued to be interested in it after I started taking it, and I took note of my own response to it. Finally, I listened to other people's remarks about it, on boards like this one and in RL support groups. I think this has given me a fairly good idea of what the typical effects of Ambien are. As I've said, my impression has been that withdrawal symptoms, if any, consist mainly of rebound insomnia, and that this is generally brief. That doesn't mean that nobody has bad withdrawal reactions, but they are the exception, not the rule. Similarly, tolerance is very rare. In contrast, I wouldn't recommend benzodiazepines for long-term insomnia, as a rule; people who take benzos for very long tend to become tolerant to their sedating effects, and discontinuing benzos after long-term use can be difficult and even potentially dangerous (although it's quite possible to do it safely as long as you exercise some patience).
> > >
> > > -elizabeth
> >
> > Elizebeth;
> > I have read so many reports that are saying something much different than you are saying about Ambian. Onr report says that it a favorered drug on the street for drug addicts. Other reports show withdraw as bad as BZs. Do yu want me to share those with you. ?
> > Lou
>
> If you could post the links to these reports I would like very much to see them. I have been taking Ambien for over two years for insomnia. I have stopped on a few occasions and have experienced nothing more than a little temporary rebound insomnia. I've certainly never heard of Ambien being a drug of choice for street addicts.
>
> GregGreg;
Look at this email address;
www.voy.com/14008/4/488.html
Lou
Posted by lou pilder on February 14, 2002, at 21:44:37
In reply to Re: withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home? » lou pilder, posted by Greg on February 14, 2002, at 21:03:23
> > > Lou,
> > >
> > > I think that it's important to get one's information from different sources, if possible. I read up on Ambien and asked my pdoc about his experience with it before I started taking it. I decided to try it precisely because of its differences from benzodiazepines (its only known mechanism of action is selective activation of one subtype of benzodiazepine receptor). I continued to be interested in it after I started taking it, and I took note of my own response to it. Finally, I listened to other people's remarks about it, on boards like this one and in RL support groups. I think this has given me a fairly good idea of what the typical effects of Ambien are. As I've said, my impression has been that withdrawal symptoms, if any, consist mainly of rebound insomnia, and that this is generally brief. That doesn't mean that nobody has bad withdrawal reactions, but they are the exception, not the rule. Similarly, tolerance is very rare. In contrast, I wouldn't recommend benzodiazepines for long-term insomnia, as a rule; people who take benzos for very long tend to become tolerant to their sedating effects, and discontinuing benzos after long-term use can be difficult and even potentially dangerous (although it's quite possible to do it safely as long as you exercise some patience).
> > >
> > > -elizabeth
> >
> > Elizebeth;
> > I have read so many reports that are saying something much different than you are saying about Ambian. Onr report says that it a favorered drug on the street for drug addicts. Other reports show withdraw as bad as BZs. Do yu want me to share those with you. ?
> > Lou
>
> If you could post the links to these reports I would like very much to see them. I have been taking Ambien for over two years for insomnia. I have stopped on a few occasions and have experienced nothing more than a little temporary rebound insomnia. I've certainly never heard of Ambien being a drug of choice for street addicts.
>
> GregGreg;
Try this addresss:
www.sleepnet.com/insomnia7/messages/427.html
Lou
Posted by lou pilder on February 14, 2002, at 22:02:32
In reply to Re: withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home? » lou pilder, posted by Greg on February 14, 2002, at 21:03:23
> > > Lou,
> > >
> > > I think that it's important to get one's information from different sources, if possible. I read up on Ambien and asked my pdoc about his experience with it before I started taking it. I decided to try it precisely because of its differences from benzodiazepines (its only known mechanism of action is selective activation of one subtype of benzodiazepine receptor). I continued to be interested in it after I started taking it, and I took note of my own response to it. Finally, I listened to other people's remarks about it, on boards like this one and in RL support groups. I think this has given me a fairly good idea of what the typical effects of Ambien are. As I've said, my impression has been that withdrawal symptoms, if any, consist mainly of rebound insomnia, and that this is generally brief. That doesn't mean that nobody has bad withdrawal reactions, but they are the exception, not the rule. Similarly, tolerance is very rare. In contrast, I wouldn't recommend benzodiazepines for long-term insomnia, as a rule; people who take benzos for very long tend to become tolerant to their sedating effects, and discontinuing benzos after long-term use can be difficult and even potentially dangerous (although it's quite possible to do it safely as long as you exercise some patience).
> > >
> > > -elizabeth
> >
> > Elizebeth;
> > I have read so many reports that are saying something much different than you are saying about Ambian. Onr report says that it a favorered drug on the street for drug addicts. Other reports show withdraw as bad as BZs. Do yu want me to share those with you. ?
> > Lou
>
> If you could post the links to these reports I would like very much to see them. I have been taking Ambien for over two years for insomnia. I have stopped on a few occasions and have experienced nothing more than a little temporary rebound insomnia. I've certainly never heard of Ambien being a drug of choice for street addicts.
>
> GregGreg;
Do a Google serch on: Pharmaceutical Drugs of Abuse. Hint: click on casche when that headline appears.
Ambien is number 14 out of the top 20
Lou
Posted by christophrejmc on February 14, 2002, at 22:04:41
In reply to Re: withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home? » Dona, posted by lou pilder on February 14, 2002, at 19:59:36
Yvonne Day is also involved with various anti-benzodiazepine (and anti-psychiatric medication) groups such as http://www.benzo.org.uk. This doesn't invalidate anything she says (or anything on the website), but it's important to know all the facts. Although a lot of their advice may be helpful, I feel that they tend to exaggerate and rely on scare tactics.
> There is a whole group that will help you witdraw from ambian. I have withdrawn from a benzodiazepine and your withdral is supposed to be no worse than that. IfI can do it, you ca do it also. Contact Yvonne Day in Columbus , Ohio. She will tell you how yo can withdraw.
> Lou
Posted by Cam W. on February 14, 2002, at 22:24:15
In reply to Re: withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home? » Greg, posted by lou pilder on February 14, 2002, at 22:02:32
Lou - A vast majority of people, if they use hypnotics responsibly, will have absolutely no problem stopping them. Long term Ambien™ (zolpidem) use is far easier to stop than than an equivalent dosage of any benzodiazepine over the same duration of time.
The anecdotal evidence from one or two people must be regarded with caution. We do not know the full medical history of those who posted those responses; nor do we know what other drugs (licit or elicit) they may be using concommitantly. We also do not know if these people have withdrawn slowly (eg. over a period of 2 or more weeks - depending upon what dose they were taking and the duration of the drug's use). Also, some people, due to their individual body chemistry, will have bad reactions (eg. allergic, idiosyncratic, etc.) to some medications.
These are only some factors that must be taken into consideration before a complete story can be elicited. Sweeping generalizations can do more harm than good. One must dig for the facts.
Just my clinical opinion. - Cam
Posted by Alan on February 15, 2002, at 0:54:41
In reply to Yvonne Day, posted by christophrejmc on February 14, 2002, at 22:04:41
Yvonne Day is also involved with various anti-benzodiazepine (and anti-psychiatric medication) groups such as http://www.benzo.org.uk. This doesn't invalidate anything she says (or anything on the website), but it's important to know all the facts. Although a lot of their advice may be helpful, I feel that they tend to exaggerate and rely on scare tactics.
*******************************************Here we go again with the anti-benzo zealots and their scare tactics. These strident minority groups which are mainly political and moralistic (rather than medical) in nature, using hyperbole, half-truths and innuendo are ones to be watched out for.
The constant usage of the term "addiction" as a pejorative when the term "medical dependence" is more appropriate for BZD usage isn't even on their radar screen. "Detox" is their battle cry calling BZD's neurotoxins and treating patients as if they are illicit drug users and lumping them in with poly drug abusers taking heroin and cocaine - even claiming falsely that tapering BZD's is the same "hell" as detoxing from these narcotics...and that after stopping BZD's the original anxiety is 10X's (or is that 100X's? - keeps changing) worse than before.
They have influenced NHS policy in the UK, Canada, and Australia to the anxiety suffer's detriment by taking the freedom of choice away from the patient/doctor relationship to use what they know works.
It is an insideous problem that needs to be addressed head on. They scare people needlessly stigmatising the use of these meds and provoking guilt about taking them from the anxiety sufferer that is being helped by them in the first place and those considering taking a med that could easily turn their life around for the better.
They are well known in the community of pdocs that specalise in the treatment of chronic anxiety disorders and are referred to in cult-like status.
There is so little understanding of these meds by many modern day pdocs that it takes a great stroke of luck or heavy duty searching to find one that is well educated about them to not cause more harm by witholding BZD's as a last resort instead of giving the patient freedom of choice to try them on equal footing with the ssri's.
On top of that there's a tremendous push by the pharms. to have as many docs as possible give the most medicine as possibe from the ssri catagory to recover R&D investment and to claim no withdrawl efffect (like the BZD's do, they imply). Coming to find out that ALL meds have withdrawl effects that must be moderated by slow withdrawl including the antiepileptics, antihypertensives, ssri's etc, etc.
One of the biggest frauds going on in psychiatric medicine today - the trashing of BZD's and similar.
Alan
Posted by christophrejmc on February 15, 2002, at 1:37:15
In reply to Re: the anti BZD zealotry factor., posted by Alan on February 15, 2002, at 0:54:41
Posted by lou pilder on February 15, 2002, at 8:15:13
In reply to Re: withdrawing from sleeping pill addiction at home? » lou pilder, posted by Cam W. on February 14, 2002, at 22:24:15
> Lou - A vast majority of people, if they use hypnotics responsibly, will have absolutely no problem stopping them. Long term Ambien™ (zolpidem) use is far easier to stop than than an equivalent dosage of any benzodiazepine over the same duration of time.
>
> The anecdotal evidence from one or two people must be regarded with caution. We do not know the full medical history of those who posted those responses; nor do we know what other drugs (licit or elicit) they may be using concommitantly. We also do not know if these people have withdrawn slowly (eg. over a period of 2 or more weeks - depending upon what dose they were taking and the duration of the drug's use). Also, some people, due to their individual body chemistry, will have bad reactions (eg. allergic, idiosyncratic, etc.) to some medications.
>
> These are only some factors that must be taken into consideration before a complete story can be elicited. Sweeping generalizations can do more harm than good. One must dig for the facts.
>
> Just my clinical opinion. - CamCam and others,
I accept your challenge to debate Ambein and its use . The co. that makes that drug says not to take it for more than 7-10 days. It appears that the people on this board that are on Ambien have used it way beyond that time frame and are suffering from it. But let those people that want to withdraw from that drug do so. They are asking people on this board how to do so. I know first hand how to do so. I know of people that have devoted their lives to helping people that want off of this drug. If those people that want off of this drug want help to do so, then wouldn't this board be the best for them to come to to get help? Go ahead and have me kicked off this board. Make up the cowardly excuse that I am guilty of telling people that they need help to overcome this addiction that they have. Go ahead and tell me that I am guilty of wanting people to be free from this drug. Go ahead and tell me that I am guilty of wanting people to have their suffering stopped. I don't care about yuo and your quest to advocate the use of psychotropic drugs. I have seen the misery that these drugs have done to people ,over and over. People that want to kill themslves over this drug. People whose memory is impairrred. People whose marriages are ruined. People whose lives are made a shambles from this drug. People that are in jail for forging prescriptions to get this drug. This drug can not be used "responsibly" after 7-10 days. Let us all help those that want off this drug get their help to do so. We can not encourage them to keep taking the drug. Let them get help .
Lou
Posted by Cam W. on February 15, 2002, at 8:25:23
In reply to Re: the anti BZD zealotry factor., posted by Alan on February 15, 2002, at 0:54:41
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