![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 53. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 11:39:09
In reply to Re: The tradgedy of sticking it out » Lou Pilder, posted by Krazy Kat on January 29, 2002, at 11:02:42
> Lou:
>
> I keep getting my statement that this board has become too PC for me challenged. :) Using hyperbole and overexaggeration (they're really the same thing, aren't they?) is certainly not prudent or civil:
>
> ", your advice to all to "stick it out" will cause millions of people to die from neuroleptic malignant syndrome, suicide, and have their lives ruined from tardive diskoniesia and a plathora of other maladys that are life-ruining"
>
> Your advice could be looked at as a go-ahead for suicide then.
>
> We need to be able to say what we think on this board and then be refuted logically and reasonably.
>
> having been one lately who had trouble reigning in my temper, I know how difficult this can be.
>
> - KKKK. There is a large body of evidence that shows that psychotropic drugs cause suicide. I had several friends that committed suicide while they were on psychotropic drugs. I know of a way to have a life of joy, without drugs, but will people like you listen? Or will ou tell me that I must get out? This forum is about psychotropic drugs and all of you should listen to me for my input is just as good as yours. You will try to defame me and say that what I have to say is not intellegent. But I have two masters degrees and have been to the bottomless pit and the lake of fire and I want to tell you that I know what I am talking about, for I have come back from there.
Lou
Posted by kid47 on January 29, 2002, at 12:00:34
In reply to The tradgedy of sticking it out » ST, posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 6:19:43
Hello. Most of us who take psycmeds do so because it is the only (barely) acceptable choice we have found. If you think you truly have something to alleviate our suffering & allow us to dc our meds, please tell us. Just remember that many of us here have tried practically every imaginable treatment to no avail. We have spent time, energy & money on inadequate or down right fraudulent approaches to "curing" our illness. Some of us have been ripped off, paying outrageous sums of money with the promise of a miraculous recovery. We have tried everything from vitamins to magnets, not because we are naive or gullible, but because we are desperate. Our dilligent efforts at proper nutrition, exercise, & a strong committent to God, has not relieved our suffering. So meds it is. If you have something of value to offer, & offer it in supportive & caring manner you will, for the most part, be welcome here. As a group we might be a bit cynical. We generally do not respond well to wild & unsubstantiated claims. If you wish to aprise us of documented dangers & side fx of certain medications, please do it without histrionincs & overblown generalizations. We don't need to be any more frightened about the medicines we MUST take. I think without exception we want to live a more "normal" existance. So please tell us what has worked for you. Take care
kid
> Sarah, your advice to all to "stick it out" will cause millions of people to die from neuroleptic malignant syndrome, suicide, and have their lives ruined from tardive diskoniesia and a plathora of other maladys that are life-ruining. If you send 10,000 swimmers across the crockidile infested waters of the Nile river, some of them will make it. Some skydivers will survive a fall when their parachute fails to open. The drugs that you take do not descriminate. Soon you will wake up in torment and find that your drugs are yor problem. This forum is about psychotropic drugs and the evils of the drugs are just as important to talk about as the psudolove that you get from them, for it will just be a tempoary experiance for you and then it will be time for you to pay the piper. You and others will want to get me off of this board for telling you the truth about the misery that you are headed for from the use of psychotropic drugs. Psychotropic drugs have been used for 5000 years and have never shown to lead anyone to anyplace except death, either physically or a living death that eats the victim's minds . The world is trying to hide the truth from the users of psychotropic drugs, and soon people like Christian, who established this post and had the courage to rebuke the evil of the drugs will be seen by the world. You can get me off this board, but you will not silence me. You can love your drugs, but some people love death. I have been on many boards in the last 5 years and have seen nothing but misery in the people that take these horrible, life-ruining drugs. The boards have thrown me off, for I have told them how they could live a majetic life without drugs. Free from the slavery of these mind-ruining concoctions of death. Perhaps this board will let me talk to the people on this board, not the "social" board,for it is the people on this board that need to hear what I have to say, not the "social" people. If what I could tell you would give you an abundant life, without drugs, would you want to hear , or would you want to silence me? There is a way that will lead you out of your misery, but I expect people like you to prevent me from telling you, even though you could have a whole new life, without drugs and be free fom the jaws of death.
> Lou
>
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 12:20:31
In reply to Re: The tradgedy of sticking it out » Lou Pilder, posted by kid47 on January 29, 2002, at 12:00:34
> Hello. Most of us who take psycmeds do so because it is the only (barely) acceptable choice we have found. If you think you truly have something to alleviate our suffering & allow us to dc our meds, please tell us. Just remember that many of us here have tried practically every imaginable treatment to no avail. We have spent time, energy & money on inadequate or down right fraudulent approaches to "curing" our illness. Some of us have been ripped off, paying outrageous sums of money with the promise of a miraculous recovery. We have tried everything from vitamins to magnets, not because we are naive or gullible, but because we are desperate. Our dilligent efforts at proper nutrition, exercise, & a strong committent to God, has not relieved our suffering. So meds it is. If you have something of value to offer, & offer it in supportive & caring manner you will, for the most part, be welcome here. As a group we might be a bit cynical. We generally do not respond well to wild & unsubstantiated claims. If you wish to aprise us of documented dangers & side fx of certain medications, please do it without histrionincs & overblown generalizations. We don't need to be any more frightened about the medicines we MUST take. I think without exception we want to live a more "normal" existance. So please tell us what has worked for you. Take care
> kid
>
>
> > Sarah, your advice to all to "stick it out" will cause millions of people to die from neuroleptic malignant syndrome, suicide, and have their lives ruined from tardive diskoniesia and a plathora of other maladys that are life-ruining. If you send 10,000 swimmers across the crockidile infested waters of the Nile river, some of them will make it. Some skydivers will survive a fall when their parachute fails to open. The drugs that you take do not descriminate. Soon you will wake up in torment and find that your drugs are yor problem. This forum is about psychotropic drugs and the evils of the drugs are just as important to talk about as the psudolove that you get from them, for it will just be a tempoary experiance for you and then it will be time for you to pay the piper. You and others will want to get me off of this board for telling you the truth about the misery that you are headed for from the use of psychotropic drugs. Psychotropic drugs have been used for 5000 years and have never shown to lead anyone to anyplace except death, either physically or a living death that eats the victim's minds . The world is trying to hide the truth from the users of psychotropic drugs, and soon people like Christian, who established this post and had the courage to rebuke the evil of the drugs will be seen by the world. You can get me off this board, but you will not silence me. You can love your drugs, but some people love death. I have been on many boards in the last 5 years and have seen nothing but misery in the people that take these horrible, life-ruining drugs. The boards have thrown me off, for I have told them how they could live a majetic life without drugs. Free from the slavery of these mind-ruining concoctions of death. Perhaps this board will let me talk to the people on this board, not the "social" board,for it is the people on this board that need to hear what I have to say, not the "social" people. If what I could tell you would give you an abundant life, without drugs, would you want to hear , or would you want to silence me? There is a way that will lead you out of your misery, but I expect people like you to prevent me from telling you, even though you could have a whole new life, without drugs and be free fom the jaws of death.
> > Lou
> >Kid47: I have nothng to sell, I am not a member of Christiandom, good nutrition and vitamins are not a way to the abundant life. But there is a way to a life of extreme joy and I want to tell the way to that life. What I have to say takes 7 sessions,each of about 3 paragraphs, and it will guide you to a road that will lead you out of the shackles of your drugs and free you to live an exstatic life. You will have a whole new life free from the slavery of drugs. But there wil be people on this board that will want to silence me through defamation and slander and advocate that I be thrown off he board and claim that only psychotropic drug users can be on this board. No I say. This board is about psychotropic drugs and what I have to say will free you from them, so my input is valid for this board.
Lou
Posted by Krazy Kat on January 29, 2002, at 12:36:02
In reply to not an exaggeraion-the facts speak for themselves » Krazy Kat, posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 11:39:09
Lou:
I'm not trying to defame you at all. I'm concerned about the fact that you were targeting a specific someone's advice and suggesting that they are responsible for someone else dying if they take meds. Then, your advice could also have the same result - people dying from suicide b/c they Didn't take their meds.
Everyone is responsible for their own decisions as adults. All we can do here is share our experiences, and our knowledge if it's well researched.
My advice is: if you are scizophrenic, stay on meds, forever. If you are bipolar, stay on meds, forever. If you are a major depressive, stay on meds, forever. If you experience minor forms of depression, you may very well be fine on other remedies, While under a Dr.'s care.
These concepts make sense to me.
- KK
Posted by Krazy Kat on January 29, 2002, at 12:45:27
In reply to Death is not an exaggeration » kid47, posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 12:20:31
Lou:
Here are two comments re: what this board is about:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
"This is a message board for mutual support and education. It focuses on medication-related issues. "
I believe the term "mutual support" indicates that "selling" a product or a concept re: the absolute evil of meds, is not "supportive". Pointing out problems with meds is encouraged, because they truly do have bad side effects.
But what you're doing (imo) is trying to convert people who are on medications for mood and thought disorders, on a board for people with mood and thought disorders on medication, to people who find drugs not only unnecessary (in all cases according to you) but also evil.
It's like going to a Jewish Synagogue and trying to convert them to Christianity during their worship service. Maybe large signs and some noise makers would help? (I'm being sarcastic, sorry. ;))
- KK
Posted by kid47 on January 29, 2002, at 13:00:14
In reply to Death is not an exaggeration » kid47, posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 12:20:31
If you have something to share with us, then share it please.
kid
> Kid47: I have nothng to sell, I am not a member of Christiandom, good nutrition and vitamins are not a way to the abundant life. But there is a way to a life of extreme joy and I want to tell the way to that life. What I have to say takes 7 sessions,each of about 3 paragraphs, and it will guide you to a road that will lead you out of the shackles of your drugs and free you to live an exstatic life. You will have a whole new life free from the slavery of drugs. But there wil be people on this board that will want to silence me through defamation and slander and advocate that I be thrown off he board and claim that only psychotropic drug users can be on this board. No I say. This board is about psychotropic drugs and what I have to say will free you from them, so my input is valid for this board.
> Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 13:15:56
In reply to Re: not an exaggeraion-the facts speak for themselves » Lou Pilder, posted by Krazy Kat on January 29, 2002, at 12:36:02
> Lou:
>
> I'm not trying to defame you at all. I'm concerned about the fact that you were targeting a specific someone's advice and suggesting that they are responsible for someone else dying if they take meds. Then, your advice could also have the same result - people dying from suicide b/c they Didn't take their meds.
>
> Everyone is responsible for their own decisions as adults. All we can do here is share our experiences, and our knowledge if it's well researched.
>
> My advice is: if you are scizophrenic, stay on meds, forever. If you are bipolar, stay on meds, forever. If you are a major depressive, stay on meds, forever. If you experience minor forms of depression, you may very well be fine on other remedies, While under a Dr.'s care.
>
> These concepts make sense to me.
>
> - KKKK: If the creed of this group is the same as yours, that is to stay on drugs forever, then I will not be recieved by your group. But ,perhaps, maybe there are people in this group that want a new life. A life free from the slavery of drugs. I will need to hear from some others and if they want me to tell them the road to the crown of life, then I will tell them. You see, historically, people wore crowns to show their achievments. There is a crown of life that people can have so that all people will see their joy. It will not be on their heads, but radiating from their being. How are they going to know what I have to say unless I am permitted. In your world, if they hear whatI have to say, they will kill themselves. That is slander and defamation.
Lou
Posted by IsoM on January 29, 2002, at 14:00:50
In reply to Stay on drugs forever?, posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 13:15:56
Lou, the purpose of this board is to talk about medication-related issues as Krazy Kat & kid47 kindly pointed out. But you feel that you have a related med issue & a need to warn us of the dangers of meds.
Okay, we do understand your message, thank you. Now is the time to post the web-site of whatever it is you're advocating or ask people to e-mail you & let the rest of us move on with the discussions that we're interested in. The people who are curious to know more about the way you advocate will go to that site or e-mail you.
Why is a argument or debate about finding the cause of anything always so one-sided?
e.g. - the great debate that used to rage on about personality either be Nuture or Nature. Same with emotional/mental illness; why isn't it possible for these problems to develop from different causes and need to be tackled from different angles too?Please let us who have willingly decided to use medications along with other means of getting better continue without being maligned. Thank you kindly for your views. Many of us have seriously considered this already & that's why we're discussing medications now - one more angle to look at it from.
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 14:06:23
In reply to Death is not an exaggeration » kid47, posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 12:20:31
> > Hello. Most of us who take psycmeds do so because it is the only (barely) acceptable choice we have found. If you think you truly have something to alleviate our suffering & allow us to dc our meds, please tell us. Just remember that many of us here have tried practically every imaginable treatment to no avail. We have spent time, energy & money on inadequate or down right fraudulent approaches to "curing" our illness. Some of us have been ripped off, paying outrageous sums of money with the promise of a miraculous recovery. We have tried everything from vitamins to magnets, not because we are naive or gullible, but because we are desperate. Our dilligent efforts at proper nutrition, exercise, & a strong committent to God, has not relieved our suffering. So meds it is. If you have something of value to offer, & offer it in supportive & caring manner you will, for the most part, be welcome here. As a group we might be a bit cynical. We generally do not respond well to wild & unsubstantiated claims. If you wish to aprise us of documented dangers & side fx of certain medications, please do it without histrionincs & overblown generalizations. We don't need to be any more frightened about the medicines we MUST take. I think without exception we want to live a more "normal" existance. So please tell us what has worked for you. Take care
> > kid
> >
> >
> > > Sarah, your advice to all to "stick it out" will cause millions of people to die from neuroleptic malignant syndrome, suicide, and have their lives ruined from tardive diskoniesia and a plathora of other maladys that are life-ruining. If you send 10,000 swimmers across the crockidile infested waters of the Nile river, some of them will make it. Some skydivers will survive a fall when their parachute fails to open. The drugs that you take do not descriminate. Soon you will wake up in torment and find that your drugs are yor problem. This forum is about psychotropic drugs and the evils of the drugs are just as important to talk about as the psudolove that you get from them, for it will just be a tempoary experiance for you and then it will be time for you to pay the piper. You and others will want to get me off of this board for telling you the truth about the misery that you are headed for from the use of psychotropic drugs. Psychotropic drugs have been used for 5000 years and have never shown to lead anyone to anyplace except death, either physically or a living death that eats the victim's minds . The world is trying to hide the truth from the users of psychotropic drugs, and soon people like Christian, who established this post and had the courage to rebuke the evil of the drugs will be seen by the world. You can get me off this board, but you will not silence me. You can love your drugs, but some people love death. I have been on many boards in the last 5 years and have seen nothing but misery in the people that take these horrible, life-ruining drugs. The boards have thrown me off, for I have told them how they could live a majetic life without drugs. Free from the slavery of these mind-ruining concoctions of death. Perhaps this board will let me talk to the people on this board, not the "social" board,for it is the people on this board that need to hear what I have to say, not the "social" people. If what I could tell you would give you an abundant life, without drugs, would you want to hear , or would you want to silence me? There is a way that will lead you out of your misery, but I expect people like you to prevent me from telling you, even though you could have a whole new life, without drugs and be free fom the jaws of death.
> > > Lou
> > >
>
> Kid47: I have nothng to sell, I am not a member of Christiandom, good nutrition and vitamins are not a way to the abundant life. But there is a way to a life of extreme joy and I want to tell the way to that life. What I have to say takes 7 sessions,each of about 3 paragraphs, and it will guide you to a road that will lead you out of the shackles of your drugs and free you to live an exstatic life. You will have a whole new life free from the slavery of drugs. But there wil be people on this board that will want to silence me through defamation and slander and advocate that I be thrown off he board and claim that only psychotropic drug users can be on this board. No I say. This board is about psychotropic drugs and what I have to say will free you from them, so my input is valid for this board.
> Lou
Millions will die. About 4000 people each year die from neuroleptic malignant syndrome as of a few years ago. This represents only in America. Wit mathematical interpolation, in the future that would mean that millions will die in perhaps 15 years fromtaking neuroleptic drugs because of the epidemeology of the proliferation o these drugs. For those who wantthe actual stistics, I will refer you to the resrch if you want it by emailing me at louelsa@cs.com
Lou
Posted by sid on January 29, 2002, at 14:18:39
In reply to Stay on drugs forever?, posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 13:15:56
I thik that some people can't do without meds for the rest of their life. This is a reality for some. Most people who take ADs do want to stop taking them at some point and be healthy without them. It is not always possible however.
I hope I'll be able to stop and move on with my life and not think about depression all the time. But I've had dysthymia for 21 years, and I know it may not be possible. I'll have to try and see how it goes. If I have to take them forever to be well, that's a reality I'll have to deal with then.
All this to say that I am not sure what the debate is about... Both realities exist, and most if not all of us would like to be free from meds some day, but it may not happen.
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 14:24:13
In reply to Choice of Treatment Our Own » Lou Pilder, posted by IsoM on January 29, 2002, at 14:00:50
> Lou, the purpose of this board is to talk about medication-related issues as Krazy Kat & kid47 kindly pointed out. But you feel that you have a related med issue & a need to warn us of the dangers of meds.
>
> Okay, we do understand your message, thank you. Now is the time to post the web-site of whatever it is you're advocating or ask people to e-mail you & let the rest of us move on with the discussions that we're interested in. The people who are curious to know more about the way you advocate will go to that site or e-mail you.
>
> Why is a argument or debate about finding the cause of anything always so one-sided?
> e.g. - the great debate that used to rage on about personality either be Nuture or Nature. Same with emotional/mental illness; why isn't it possible for these problems to develop from different causes and need to be tackled from different angles too?
>
> Please let us who have willingly decided to use medications along with other means of getting better continue without being maligned. Thank you kindly for your views. Many of us have seriously considered this already & that's why we're discussing medications now - one more angle to look at it from.Iso: This board is about psychotropic drugs. My input is optional to all readers. You can option to not read what I have to say.
I have seen the results of taking neuroleptic drugs. My father died from taking them . My two brothers died from taking them. My 3erd brother is a helpless invalid from taking them. I have een the horroes from the taking of psychotrpic drugs and have a mission to warn all. I know that there are people like you who will slander and defame me so that you can keep ohers from hearing what I have to say. To say that I am malighning people is slander and deamation.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 15:20:21
In reply to Drugs: forever or not ? » Lou Pilder, posted by sid on January 29, 2002, at 14:18:39
> I thik that some people can't do without meds for the rest of their life. This is a reality for some. Most people who take ADs do want to stop taking them at some point and be healthy without them. It is not always possible however.
>
> I hope I'll be able to stop and move on with my life and not think about depression all the time. But I've had dysthymia for 21 years, and I know it may not be possible. I'll have to try and see how it goes. If I have to take them forever to be well, that's a reality I'll have to deal with then.
>
> All this to say that I am not sure what the debate is about... Both realities exist, and most if not all of us would like to be free from meds some day, but it may not happen.Sid: Why is it hopeless? Do you think that the 21 years that you have taken ADs has caused you to be locked in to the drug due to some kind of tolerance like alchohol?
Lou
Posted by IsoM on January 29, 2002, at 15:39:56
In reply to Re: Choice of Treatment Our Own, posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 14:24:13
Ah, Lou - I don't have an argument with you at all. I just think it would be good to post the web-site of what your alternative treatment is. I'm so sorry that your family suffered so much from these drugs. But that's what's so variable. Not all have suffered. Many have been given a new lease on life.
You've mentioned about your musical hallucinations & said how you've only found 6 other cases like this. Doesn't that show how variable our physical reactions are to different influences? I really believe the only way we'll know how each person feels is to be inside their head & at this point of time it seems highly unlikely.
No, Lou, I'm not trying to slander you at all, & if it seems so to you, I apologise. You are as entitled to your opinions as we are to ours. Please accept that not all of us will agree with you. And the reason I read your posts is the same for reading other posts - to learn how they think & to be open to new ideas. And some of the ideas have been thoroughly examined from all angles.
>
> Iso: This board is about psychotropic drugs. My input is optional to all readers. You can option to not read what I have to say.
> I have seen the results of taking neuroleptic drugs. My father died from taking them . My two brothers died from taking them. My 3erd brother is a helpless invalid from taking them. I have een the horroes from the taking of psychotrpic drugs and have a mission to warn all. I know that there are people like you who will slander and defame me so that you can keep ohers from hearing what I have to say. To say that I am malighning people is slander and deamation.
> Lou
>
Posted by sid on January 29, 2002, at 18:41:54
In reply to the hopelessness syndrome » sid, posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 15:20:21
Some known facts about depression, without meds:
- the more episodes of major depression you've had, the more likely you'll have another one;
- the more episodes you've had in the past, the more close together, in time, your episodes will be;
- the more episodes you've had in the past, the worse they become;
- given all the above, eventually, you could have a chronic major depression (I don't even want to imagine that!).So, depending on well and (how fast perhaps?) you heal from your first episode, your future may be bright or not. That's just how the disease affects us over time, it has been observed. It tends to be recurrent.
So if someone takes meds at the first episode and heals well (takes them long enough to avoid recurrence after stopping to take the meds), then this person can stop and be fine thereafter. Other things can help to, and other things can help prevent recurring episodes (CBT, relaxationtechniques, etc...). However, if someone does not heal well between episodes, if someone has dysthymia (more likely to have major episodes than someone without dysthymia), or if someone has had many major episodes already, then the probability of this person ever being well (i.e. without depression, dysthymia or major episodes) without taking meds for the rest of their life decreases.
In my case, I have had 1 major episode which took long to heal (perhaps 2 or perhaps 1 that lasted long, I am not sure), and ince I have had dysthymia for 21 years, then the probability of recurrence of major episodes and continuing dysthymia is high for me. I am taking meds now to try to break the cycle, byt perhaps it's too late. If, so I will liekly be on meds all my life. I certainly hope to break the cycle, but I'll know only in a year or two (given my history, I will be on meds at least a year once I have no more symptoms of dysthymia), when I get off the meds. Will it come back? Will be fine? How sensitive will I be to reccurent episodes of major episodes? I don't know yet.
I am not hopeless (far from it!), but knowing the facts and having read some statistics, I know that the best outcome may not happen for me. Although I am doing everything in my power, meds included, not to depend on meds forever.
- Sid
Posted by sid on January 29, 2002, at 19:06:25
In reply to the hopelessness syndrome » sid, posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 15:20:21
I have taken ADs for 2 months only, not 21 years. I have survived with dysthymia for 21 years.
Posted by lou pilder on January 29, 2002, at 19:19:06
In reply to Maligning You? Sorry » Lou Pilder, posted by IsoM on January 29, 2002, at 15:39:56
> Ah, Lou - I don't have an argument with you at all. I just think it would be good to post the web-site of what your alternative treatment is. I'm so sorry that your family suffered so much from these drugs. But that's what's so variable. Not all have suffered. Many have been given a new lease on life.
>
> You've mentioned about your musical hallucinations & said how you've only found 6 other cases like this. Doesn't that show how variable our physical reactions are to different influences? I really believe the only way we'll know how each person feels is to be inside their head & at this point of time it seems highly unlikely.
>
> No, Lou, I'm not trying to slander you at all, & if it seems so to you, I apologise. You are as entitled to your opinions as we are to ours. Please accept that not all of us will agree with you. And the reason I read your posts is the same for reading other posts - to learn how they think & to be open to new ideas. And some of the ideas have been thoroughly examined from all angles.
>
> >
> > Iso: This board is about psychotropic drugs. My input is optional to all readers. You can option to not read what I have to say.
> > I have seen the results of taking neuroleptic drugs. My father died from taking them . My two brothers died from taking them. My 3erd brother is a helpless invalid from taking them. I have een the horroes from the taking of psychotrpic drugs and have a mission to warn all. I know that there are people like you who will slander and defame me so that you can keep ohers from hearing what I have to say. To say that I am malighning people is slander and deamation.
> > Lou
ISO: There is no web-site that I can referr you to. I have had many people email me to thank me for saving their lives for they found me on the internet for I help people get free from benzodiazepine addiction and rare adverse reactions to psychotropic drugs. You see, I hav found the way to the road that leads to freedom from addiction to psychotropic drugs. I want to tell evryone how to get to that road, not for any money and I have no religion to promulgate. Just what I have discovered. Now if I was on the wrong road and then found the road that leads to the crown of life, free from all drugs, and it gave me a new life, then you would want to tell people the way also. That is how I found this group.
Lou
Posted by lou pilder on January 29, 2002, at 19:27:20
In reply to not 21 years of ADs » Lou Pilder, posted by sid on January 29, 2002, at 19:06:25
> I have taken ADs for 2 months only, not 21 years. I have survived with dysthymia for 21
years.Sid: That is good news about taking Ads for only 2 months instead of 21 years. Have you had periods that you were not dythymic?
Lou
Posted by lou pilder on January 29, 2002, at 19:39:17
In reply to facts about depression » Lou Pilder, posted by sid on January 29, 2002, at 18:41:54
> Some known facts about depression, without meds:
>
> - the more episodes of major depression you've had, the more likely you'll have another one;
> - the more episodes you've had in the past, the more close together, in time, your episodes will be;
> - the more episodes you've had in the past, the worse they become;
> - given all the above, eventually, you could have a chronic major depression (I don't even want to imagine that!).
>
> So, depending on well and (how fast perhaps?) you heal from your first episode, your future may be bright or not. That's just how the disease affects us over time, it has been observed. It tends to be recurrent.
>
> So if someone takes meds at the first episode and heals well (takes them long enough to avoid recurrence after stopping to take the meds), then this person can stop and be fine thereafter. Other things can help to, and other things can help prevent recurring episodes (CBT, relaxationtechniques, etc...). However, if someone does not heal well between episodes, if someone has dysthymia (more likely to have major episodes than someone without dysthymia), or if someone has had many major episodes already, then the probability of this person ever being well (i.e. without depression, dysthymia or major episodes) without taking meds for the rest of their life decreases.
>
> In my case, I have had 1 major episode which took long to heal (perhaps 2 or perhaps 1 that lasted long, I am not sure), and ince I have had dysthymia for 21 years, then the probability of recurrence of major episodes and continuing dysthymia is high for me. I am taking meds now to try to break the cycle, byt perhaps it's too late. If, so I will liekly be on meds all my life. I certainly hope to break the cycle, but I'll know only in a year or two (given my history, I will be on meds at least a year once I have no more symptoms of dysthymia), when I get off the meds. Will it come back? Will be fine? How sensitive will I be to reccurent episodes of major episodes? I don't know yet.
>
> I am not hopeless (far from it!), but knowing the facts and having read some statistics, I know that the best outcome may not happen for me. Although I am doing everything in my power, meds included, not to depend on meds forever.
>
> - SidSid: Depression can lift without taking psychotropic drugs.
Lou
Posted by IsoM on January 29, 2002, at 19:51:09
In reply to The web-site to the road to the crown of life » IsoM, posted by lou pilder on January 29, 2002, at 19:19:06
Posted by lou pilder on January 29, 2002, at 20:49:07
In reply to Maligning You? Sorry » Lou Pilder, posted by IsoM on January 29, 2002, at 15:39:56
> Ah, Lou - I don't have an argument with you at all. I just think it would be good to post the web-site of what your alternative treatment is. I'm so sorry that your family suffered so much from these drugs. But that's what's so variable. Not all have suffered. Many have been given a new lease on life.
>
> You've mentioned about your musical hallucinations & said how you've only found 6 other cases like this. Doesn't that show how variable our physical reactions are to different influences? I really believe the only way we'll know how each person feels is to be inside their head & at this point of time it seems highly unlikely.
>
> No, Lou, I'm not trying to slander you at all, & if it seems so to you, I apologise. You are as entitled to your opinions as we are to ours. Please accept that not all of us will agree with you. And the reason I read your posts is the same for reading other posts - to learn how they think & to be open to new ideas. And some of the ideas have been thoroughly examined from all angles.
>
> >
> > Iso: This board is about psychotropic drugs. My input is optional to all readers. You can option to not read what I have to say.
> > I have seen the results of taking neuroleptic drugs. My father died from taking them . My two brothers died from taking them. My 3erd brother is a helpless invalid from taking them. I have een the horroes from the taking of psychotrpic drugs and have a mission to warn all. I know that there are people like you who will slander and defame me so that you can keep ohers from hearing what I have to say. To say that I am malighning people is slander and deamation.
> > LouISO: 5 out of 200 people taking neuroleptic drugs will die within 5 years of neuroleptic malignant syndrome. Many more will wake up and see purple spots under their skin and find out tha the drug has given them leukemia and that they have just a short time to live. Many more will develop an incurable movement disorder that will ruin their lives permanatly. Many more will become zombies wih no feelings anymore. They will even be sexless. Their spouses will leave them for they have become an unhuman being masquerading as a person. Some will commit suicide . Others will serch for another drug to counteract the original drug and end up with Parkinse's disease-like syndrome. Others will accidently kill themselves by mixing drugs with alchohol like Judy Garland, Marilyn Monroe, Margo Hemmingway and 1000s of others. Others will be killed in auto accidents because the drug distorted their perceptions. Others will wander into the cold an freeze to death.(this happened to a friend of mine on an AD) Others will be killed by the police while committing a crime. Others will become disabled and be poverty stricken. Othes will be stigmatised by society and shunned and ostracised. I don't condone that, but it is a shamefull reality. Is this the "new lease on life" that you are advocating? Don't you see that the drug companys have done a monsterous injustice to you? There is a different road to the crown of life than the road of drugs.
Lou
Posted by IsoM on January 29, 2002, at 21:09:00
In reply to New lease on life? » IsoM, posted by lou pilder on January 29, 2002, at 20:49:07
Lou, yes, I do believe the main & over-riding purpose of a drug company is to make money. The benefits of lithium carbonate as a mood stabaliser was known in the late '40s at least but it wasn't till a number of decades later that drug companies showed any interest in it. Why? Because lithium carbonate is a natually occuring salt & can't be pateneted. Without the patent, any company could make it cheap & there was no real profit in it. I'm fully aware of how this world operates by money & power.
But I don't believe that makes all medications evil. Lou, I've been taking psychotropic medications for over 15 years - long enough to have 'poisoned' my system by now. What am I like? Well, I'm neither overweight, nor underweight. I have good muscle tone, strength & flexibility still. I have far fewer migraines than I did when young & they're not that severe anymore. My digestion is good, all systems work very well. A thorough physical check-up (not just the annual sort) shows good health. I don't get sick - no stomach 'flus', infections or anything like that. I'm commonly mistaken for someone in my mid-thirties & I'm 52. Am I boasting? No, but I think if my meds were poisoning me there would be evidence to show it. I am careful about living a healthy lifestyle with frequent physical activity & sound nutrition.
If others choose not to take meds & can do without, hurray for them. I'll be behind them every step, but I don't want someone telling me I don't need them. I've decided already. Thank you very much & I sincerely mean it. I hope you success with your quest about your musical hallucinations. If I ever hear something new about it (I read a lot of science journals), I'll let you know.
Posted by lou pilder on January 29, 2002, at 21:41:04
In reply to Re: New lease on life? » lou pilder, posted by IsoM on January 29, 2002, at 21:09:00
> Lou, yes, I do believe the main & over-riding purpose of a drug company is to make money. The benefits of lithium carbonate as a mood stabaliser was known in the late '40s at least but it wasn't till a number of decades later that drug companies showed any interest in it. Why? Because lithium carbonate is a natually occuring salt & can't be pateneted. Without the patent, any company could make it cheap & there was no real profit in it. I'm fully aware of how this world operates by money & power.
>
> But I don't believe that makes all medications evil. Lou, I've been taking psychotropic medications for over 15 years - long enough to have 'poisoned' my system by now. What am I like? Well, I'm neither overweight, nor underweight. I have good muscle tone, strength & flexibility still. I have far fewer migraines than I did when young & they're not that severe anymore. My digestion is good, all systems work very well. A thorough physical check-up (not just the annual sort) shows good health. I don't get sick - no stomach 'flus', infections or anything like that. I'm commonly mistaken for someone in my mid-thirties & I'm 52. Am I boasting? No, but I think if my meds were poisoning me there would be evidence to show it. I am careful about living a healthy lifestyle with frequent physical activity & sound nutrition.
>
> If others choose not to take meds & can do without, hurray for them. I'll be behind them every step, but I don't want someone telling me I don't need them. I've decided already. Thank you very much & I sincerely mean it. I hope you success with your quest about your musical hallucinations. If I ever hear something new about it (I read a lot of science journals), I'll let you know.ISO; You are in wonderfull shape. My father was a picture of health when the doctor diagnosed his leukemia.The luekemia has another name when it is induced by a psychotropic drug. I remember the purple spotsall over his body. He died 1 year later of a horrible death. He weighed 60 lbs. when he died. ISO, are you so ignorant as to believe that just because you are beautiful that you will not be stricken by one of these fatal diseases? Marilyn Monroe was beatifull. Psychotropic drugs do not exempt people from their ravages just because you look good. My father took a psychtropic drug for 20 years before he died. The statistics show a progression that is greater than an arithmetic progression when the people get older. 20% is a conservative figure with people your age. The 2 1/2 % is for young , healthy people. The older you get, the more your chances are for the drug to kill you. ISO, what is the drug that you take?
Lou
Posted by IsoM on January 30, 2002, at 1:48:21
In reply to you are in wondefull shape » IsoM, posted by lou pilder on January 29, 2002, at 21:41:04
No, no, Lou - I wasn't saying I was beautiful - I was saying I'm in good health when I said good shape, physical looks have litttle to do with health. You're reading more into the post than I said.
The spots your father had is called purpura, from the clotting problems leukemia brings; it's pin-point bleeding under the skin. I'm familiar with it.
Posted by ST on January 30, 2002, at 4:31:40
In reply to The tradgedy of sticking it out » ST, posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2002, at 6:19:43
Lou,
I'm sorry you feel that by expressing my views in this open forum I am "killing people". And one day I will wake up in torment? Hmmmmm.
Nobody is trying to "defame" you or push you off the board. But we definitley can do without the fire and brimstone. The people on this board strike me as intelligent and as having a good level of rationality. I've found we all seem to be very open minded and interested in what others have found in their experiences with these different drugs. But it doesn't seem that you are.
You refer to me as "people like you" who will "prevent (you) from telling (me) about a way that will lead (me)out of (my) misery". You have no idea what kind of person I am. First of all, I'm not miserable. And second of all, will you please finally tell us what the heck you're talking about? What exactly is the alternative you preach about? I'm listening. We're all listening.
Sarah
> > Hi,
> >
> > I understand your passion about this, as some people are quite treatment resistant. As for me (and probably some others on this board) while finding the "right" medication(s) was very painful and often discouraging, I have found a combination of meds that seems to work for me. I also have been in therapy, hoping that "getting to the root of things" would eliminate the need for meds. But since being on meds, I've had the stability to finally face issues in my life and actually work through them.
> >
> > I do massage therapy and work with holistic doctors, acupuncurists and others who often challenge my choice to take drugs rather than take a holistic or a cognitive therapy approach. All I know is that when I wasn't on them, I wanted to kill myself. Now that I take meds, I have a life.
> >
> > Remember that not everyone will have your experience. Most people on this board need encouragement to stick it out and to continue to try different drugs until they find what works for them.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > Sarah
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I have been on tons of antidepressants, and all they did was make my life a living hell. I am in the process of sueing doctors and the drug companies for the emotional,physical, and mental suffering that was caused by these medications. I was completely screwed around by these bastards, because they are ignorant,
> > > and believe that only medications can solve problems in life. Dr. Bob take a good look at what you do! your
> > > profession has a very destructive side to it. open your eyes.
>
> Sarah, your advice to all to "stick it out" will cause millions of people to die from neuroleptic malignant syndrome, suicide, and have their lives ruined from tardive diskoniesia and a plathora of other maladys that are life-ruining. If you send 10,000 swimmers across the crockidile infested waters of the Nile river, some of them will make it. Some skydivers will survive a fall when their parachute fails to open. The drugs that you take do not descriminate. Soon you will wake up in torment and find that your drugs are yor problem. This forum is about psychotropic drugs and the evils of the drugs are just as important to talk about as the psudolove that you get from them, for it will just be a tempoary experiance for you and then it will be time for you to pay the piper. You and others will want to get me off of this board for telling you the truth about the misery that you are headed for from the use of psychotropic drugs. Psychotropic drugs have been used for 5000 years and have never shown to lead anyone to anyplace except death, either physically or a living death that eats the victim's minds . The world is trying to hide the truth from the users of psychotropic drugs, and soon people like Christian, who established this post and had the courage to rebuke the evil of the drugs will be seen by the world. You can get me off this board, but you will not silence me. You can love your drugs, but some people love death. I have been on many boards in the last 5 years and have seen nothing but misery in the people that take these horrible, life-ruining drugs. The boards have thrown me off, for I have told them how they could live a majetic life without drugs. Free from the slavery of these mind-ruining concoctions of death. Perhaps this board will let me talk to the people on this board, not the "social" board,for it is the people on this board that need to hear what I have to say, not the "social" people. If what I could tell you would give you an abundant life, without drugs, would you want to hear , or would you want to silence me? There is a way that will lead you out of your misery, but I expect people like you to prevent me from telling you, even though you could have a whole new life, without drugs and be free fom the jaws of death.
> Lou
>
Posted by blondemomints on January 30, 2002, at 6:23:27
In reply to Please FINALLY tell us....., posted by ST on January 30, 2002, at 4:31:40
I have to agree with Sarah here. I've read all the posts and don't see where anyone has "defamed or slandered" Lou. Those words are strong words to toss around, perhaps you should look them up in Webster's most recent copy before continuing.
I feel that the only thing everyone is asking to reveal whatever "lifetime success" you are trying to preach about. If it's so great, why is it such a secret? Just out with it, geez.
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