![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 23, 2002, at 22:48:50
Last weeks I was feeling GREAT and thinking hey this combo of Effexor/Adrafanil/Fish Oil/Klonopin is working! But then I drank 5-6 drinks (KettleOne-tonics) on Saturday and have felt miserable, irritable, anxious, and depressed since although it seems to be less intense this time than usual (maybe it’s the meds).
I have been drinking on the weekends since 7th grade, often times heavily and have done a lot of illicit drugs throughout the years as well, all while taking psychiatric medicine. These days I only drink about twice a month in the amount that I specified, but occasionally more. This is no different from the other people my age I know (who don't have psychiatric disorders and take medications of course).
I have told myself thousands of times I can't drink because it makes me feel depressed, but I always end up drinking again and my mood predictably deteriorates. I’m pretty sure it is causative although now and again I wonder if it’s a bipolar cycle and the drinking is of no consequence and only serves to calm me down. I wonder if I get hypomanic (mentioned I was feeling Real Good last week) and then drink thinking I can get away with it, and this is some type of mood cycle. Alternatively I might just have mood consequences as a result of drinking. I can’t tell.
Regardless how big of an impact do you think the amount of drinking I’m describing have?.
Scott
Posted by TSA West on January 23, 2002, at 23:53:57
In reply to For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out?, posted by Mr. Scott on January 23, 2002, at 22:48:50
Thanks for posting Mr. Scott
One of these days your liver will deteriorate from the drinks and it will be difficult to metabolize psychiatric medications, thus creating more side-effects and less efficacy:
TABLE 6.6 — Effect of Liver Disease on SSRI Metabolism and Pharmacokinetics {***Single-dose**}
Product/Average Half-life/Cirrhosis Patients
Citalopram 1.5 days 3.5 days
Fluoxetine 2 days 7 days
Fluvoxamine 15 hours 24 hours
Norfluoxetine 7 days 12 days
Paroxetine 12 hours 20 hours
Sertraline 1 day 2 daysFrom: http://www.preskorn.com/cgi-bin/sp.pl?words=fluvoxamine&wt=be&bl=an&d=/books/ssri_s6.html
Posted by fuji on January 24, 2002, at 9:44:18
In reply to For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out?, posted by Mr. Scott on January 23, 2002, at 22:48:50
How about not drinking on weekends, or just have one or two drinks instead of 6 or 7 (kind of like Lays potato chips). Just a thought from someone who could never drink in moderation. Sad but true...
> Last weeks I was feeling GREAT and thinking hey this combo of Effexor/Adrafanil/Fish Oil/Klonopin is working! But then I drank 5-6 drinks (KettleOne-tonics) on Saturday and have felt miserable, irritable, anxious, and depressed since although it seems to be less intense this time than usual (maybe it’s the meds).
>
> I have been drinking on the weekends since 7th grade, often times heavily and have done a lot of illicit drugs throughout the years as well, all while taking psychiatric medicine. These days I only drink about twice a month in the amount that I specified, but occasionally more. This is no different from the other people my age I know (who don't have psychiatric disorders and take medications of course).
>
> I have told myself thousands of times I can't drink because it makes me feel depressed, but I always end up drinking again and my mood predictably deteriorates. I’m pretty sure it is causative although now and again I wonder if it’s a bipolar cycle and the drinking is of no consequence and only serves to calm me down. I wonder if I get hypomanic (mentioned I was feeling Real Good last week) and then drink thinking I can get away with it, and this is some type of mood cycle. Alternatively I might just have mood consequences as a result of drinking. I can’t tell.
>
> Regardless how big of an impact do you think the amount of drinking I’m describing have?.
>
> Scott
Posted by Krazy Kat on January 24, 2002, at 11:32:22
In reply to For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out?, posted by Mr. Scott on January 23, 2002, at 22:48:50
"it’s a bipolar cycle and the drinking is of no consequence and only serves to calm me down. I wonder if I get hypomanic (mentioned I was feeling Real Good last week) and then drink thinking I can get away with it,"
this happened(s) to me. I don't think drinking caused your mental illness, but it does exacerbate it, as you point out.
I haven't found a great answer, yet, myself, except that recently I made myself realize that no matter how helpful my meds are, I'm still going to have problems drinking. I think "alcoholics" just can't process alcohol the way "normal" people do. It's another biologocal thing. All MHO.
- KK
Posted by Simcha on January 24, 2002, at 11:35:00
In reply to For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out?, posted by Mr. Scott on January 23, 2002, at 22:48:50
Mr. Scott,
This is strange for me. I've never really craved alcohol but I have had a drink or two on occasion to lift my spirits.
Since I've been taking Klonopin, the desire to have an occasional glass of wine with dinner is gone. For some reason I just feel that I don't need it or want it.
Every Thursday night I share a bottle of wine with a co-worker (after hours of course). I will continue this practice but I just don't feel the desire to drink socially while on Klonopin.
I'm highly intuitive so I think that in part I have an intuitive sense that I just wouldn't be as sharp as I am if I consume more alcohol on a regular basis. I believe in everything in moderation. I just think that at this time alcoholic beverages are not very good for me and that a once a week treat is just fine.
This is just my opinion, of course.
Simcha
> Last weeks I was feeling GREAT and thinking hey this combo of Effexor/Adrafanil/Fish Oil/Klonopin is working! But then I drank 5-6 drinks (KettleOne-tonics) on Saturday and have felt miserable, irritable, anxious, and depressed since although it seems to be less intense this time than usual (maybe it’s the meds).
>
> I have been drinking on the weekends since 7th grade, often times heavily and have done a lot of illicit drugs throughout the years as well, all while taking psychiatric medicine. These days I only drink about twice a month in the amount that I specified, but occasionally more. This is no different from the other people my age I know (who don't have psychiatric disorders and take medications of course).
>
> I have told myself thousands of times I can't drink because it makes me feel depressed, but I always end up drinking again and my mood predictably deteriorates. I’m pretty sure it is causative although now and again I wonder if it’s a bipolar cycle and the drinking is of no consequence and only serves to calm me down. I wonder if I get hypomanic (mentioned I was feeling Real Good last week) and then drink thinking I can get away with it, and this is some type of mood cycle. Alternatively I might just have mood consequences as a result of drinking. I can’t tell.
>
> Regardless how big of an impact do you think the amount of drinking I’m describing have?.
>
> Scott
Posted by OldSchool on January 24, 2002, at 14:49:25
In reply to For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out?, posted by Mr. Scott on January 23, 2002, at 22:48:50
> Last weeks I was feeling GREAT and thinking hey this combo of Effexor/Adrafanil/Fish Oil/Klonopin is working! But then I drank 5-6 drinks (KettleOne-tonics) on Saturday and have felt miserable, irritable, anxious, and depressed since although it seems to be less intense this time than usual (maybe it’s the meds).
>
> I have been drinking on the weekends since 7th grade, often times heavily and have done a lot of illicit drugs throughout the years as well, all while taking psychiatric medicine. These days I only drink about twice a month in the amount that I specified, but occasionally more. This is no different from the other people my age I know (who don't have psychiatric disorders and take medications of course).
>
> I have told myself thousands of times I can't drink because it makes me feel depressed, but I always end up drinking again and my mood predictably deteriorates. I’m pretty sure it is causative although now and again I wonder if it’s a bipolar cycle and the drinking is of no consequence and only serves to calm me down. I wonder if I get hypomanic (mentioned I was feeling Real Good last week) and then drink thinking I can get away with it, and this is some type of mood cycle. Alternatively I might just have mood consequences as a result of drinking. I can’t tell.
>
> Regardless how big of an impact do you think the amount of drinking I’m describing have?.
>
> ScottDrinking booze is always a bad thing if you have a serious mood disorder. Booze is one of the strongest central nervous system depressant drugs known to man. It just brings you down down and down some more. I dont even really get a buzz from drinking beer anymore, unlike before depression. Now booze just makes me more depressed. It screws up my sleep and worsens insomnia. It makes me feel like I want to cry.
Your best best is to TOTALLY cut out all booze completely. As well as totally cut out all recreational drugs. Boozing it up twice a month is too much for someone with a mood disorder.
Old School
Posted by Mark H. on January 24, 2002, at 17:47:50
In reply to For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out?, posted by Mr. Scott on January 23, 2002, at 22:48:50
Hey Scott,
I think there are a lot of myths about "alcoholism," but the genetic tendency to alcohol addiction is not one of them: either you have it or you don't.
Those of us who have it sooner or later realize that we cannot drink at all. Period. "Recreational" or "normal social" drinking is basically meaningless to us. We can dress it up any way we want, but either we abstain or we eventually get into trouble with it.
No one ever thought I was an alcoholic, and neither did I -- until about 3 years AFTER I completely quit drinking. I've never been to an AA meeting, although I have great respect for those who go through 12-step programs for any reason. The fact remains that the vast majority of people quit drinking on their own.
I lost a part of myself when I quit drinking, but I learned a lot as well. One thing I learned is how I had been kidding myself about alcohol. Another thing I learned -- to my disappointment -- was that alcohol was NOT causing all my problems.
You can't judge yourself based on comparisons with others. I used that excuse for a long time. Hey, I never missed work, I didn't drive drunk (usually), I didn't hide drinks, I didn't drink during the day, I didn't even go to bars. So I couldn't possibly be an alcoholic! (hahaha)
From my perspective after having been sober for just over 20 years, there's nothing to sort out. If you've got the gene, you need to abstain. Don't wait until you're stopped while driving to "sort out" why your blood test will show a mix of psychiatric medications AND alcohol. You can argue your competency to drive on your regular regimen of meds, but mixed with alcohol? Maybe you were just tired, but you'll be convicted nevertheless.
I was a police dispatcher when I was in college, and I was surprised -- as a civilian -- to learn that the most seriously punished regular crime is driving under the influence. A single DUI will cost the average driver $3,000 to $5,000 in fines, legal fees, increased insurance costs, and time lost attending mandatory rehabilitation programs. It just isn't worth it.
Good luck. I'm not scolding or preaching -- I'd have asked exactly the same questions 25 years ago.
With kind regards,
Mark H.
Posted by mr.scott on January 24, 2002, at 18:17:06
In reply to Re: For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out? » Mr. Scott, posted by TSA West on January 23, 2002, at 23:53:57
Thank You my Good Man!
Posted by pedr on January 25, 2002, at 7:23:49
In reply to For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out?, posted by Mr. Scott on January 23, 2002, at 22:48:50
> Last weeks I was feeling GREAT and thinking hey this combo of Effexor/Adrafanil/Fish Oil/Klonopin is working! But then I drank 5-6 drinks (KettleOne-tonics) on Saturday and have felt miserable, irritable, anxious, and depressed since although it seems to be less intense this time than usual (maybe it’s the meds).
>
> I have been drinking on the weekends since 7th grade, often times heavily and have done a lot of illicit drugs throughout the years as well, all while taking psychiatric medicine. These days I only drink about twice a month in the amount that I specified, but occasionally more. This is no different from the other people my age I know (who don't have psychiatric disorders and take medications of course).
>
> I have told myself thousands of times I can't drink because it makes me feel depressed, but I always end up drinking again and my mood predictably deteriorates. I’m pretty sure it is causative although now and again I wonder if it’s a bipolar cycle and the drinking is of no consequence and only serves to calm me down. I wonder if I get hypomanic (mentioned I was feeling Real Good last week) and then drink thinking I can get away with it, and this is some type of mood cycle. Alternatively I might just have mood consequences as a result of drinking. I can’t tell.
>
> Regardless how big of an impact do you think the amount of drinking I’m describing have?.
>
> ScottMr Scott,
I too have problems with alcohol and depression. As a brit, since you become 15 you generally aim to get blootered every weekend. The problem is that I feel especially low when hungover [for several days] - not just from feeling sick but my depression seems to intensify massively.I discussed this with my psych and he reckons I hold an irrational belief that:
hungover = > Increased depression.
i.e. I say to myself "I'm hungover, I must not be hungover, I will get severe depression" and promptly "believe myself into depression". Is it possible you hold a similar belief?I believe that aswell as my irrational belief, being hungover makes you biologically more prone to depression.
These days I try and stick to 3-4 pints which allows me to enjoy the evening [going out socially in Britain when sober is a big no-no] but not be too hungover and cognitively impaired the next day. I guess all this echoes the "drink in moderation" tip.best wishes,
pete
Posted by fuji on January 25, 2002, at 9:56:40
In reply to Re: Kidding Ourselves About Alcohol Addiction, posted by Mark H. on January 24, 2002, at 17:47:50
Amen to that!! If you can't drink you can't drink. Normal drinkers don't think about drinks or drinking. It is a non-issue(event) for them. Only people who have some type of drinking problem, spend the time discussing, thinking, evaluating, rationalizing or ruminating over drinking. Just my opinion.
>
Hey Scott,
>
> I think there are a lot of myths about "alcoholism," but the genetic tendency to alcohol addiction is not one of them: either you have it or you don't.
>
> Those of us who have it sooner or later realize that we cannot drink at all. Period. "Recreational" or "normal social" drinking is basically meaningless to us. We can dress it up any way we want, but either we abstain or we eventually get into trouble with it.
>
> No one ever thought I was an alcoholic, and neither did I -- until about 3 years AFTER I completely quit drinking. I've never been to an AA meeting, although I have great respect for those who go through 12-step programs for any reason. The fact remains that the vast majority of people quit drinking on their own.
>
> I lost a part of myself when I quit drinking, but I learned a lot as well. One thing I learned is how I had been kidding myself about alcohol. Another thing I learned -- to my disappointment -- was that alcohol was NOT causing all my problems.
>
> You can't judge yourself based on comparisons with others. I used that excuse for a long time. Hey, I never missed work, I didn't drive drunk (usually), I didn't hide drinks, I didn't drink during the day, I didn't even go to bars. So I couldn't possibly be an alcoholic! (hahaha)
>
> From my perspective after having been sober for just over 20 years, there's nothing to sort out. If you've got the gene, you need to abstain. Don't wait until you're stopped while driving to "sort out" why your blood test will show a mix of psychiatric medications AND alcohol. You can argue your competency to drive on your regular regimen of meds, but mixed with alcohol? Maybe you were just tired, but you'll be convicted nevertheless.
>
> I was a police dispatcher when I was in college, and I was surprised -- as a civilian -- to learn that the most seriously punished regular crime is driving under the influence. A single DUI will cost the average driver $3,000 to $5,000 in fines, legal fees, increased insurance costs, and time lost attending mandatory rehabilitation programs. It just isn't worth it.
>
> Good luck. I'm not scolding or preaching -- I'd have asked exactly the same questions 25 years ago.
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Mark H.
Posted by jazzdog on January 25, 2002, at 13:08:19
In reply to Re: For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out?, posted by pedr on January 25, 2002, at 7:23:49
Sweetie, three or four pints a night ain't moderation. Why don't you try coca cola one night and see how it goes - you might be surprised to find that not everybody is out to get blottoed. Also, your shrink is kidding himself and you - nothing induces depression like a hangover.- Jane
Posted by MB on January 25, 2002, at 17:14:51
In reply to Re: For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out?, posted by pedr on January 25, 2002, at 7:23:49
Three to four pints of lager, I hope. Not 3-4 pints of whiskey!
MB
> These days I try and stick to 3-4 pints which allows me to enjoy the evening [going out socially in Britain when sober is a big no-no] but not be too hungover and cognitively impaired the next day. I guess all this echoes the "drink in moderation" tip.
>
> best wishes,
> pete
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 25, 2002, at 19:44:18
In reply to Re: For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out?, posted by pedr on January 25, 2002, at 7:23:49
I discussed this with my psych and he reckons I hold an irrational belief that:
hungover = > Increased depression.
i.e. I say to myself "I'm hungover, I must not be hungover, I will get severe depression" and promptly "believe myself into depression". Is it possible you hold a similar belief?Interesting...Mine thinks that alcohol causes me miniature withdrawals that are "proconvuslant" and therefore cause dysphoria since he believes I already have a seizure type mood disorder?
Anyways, thanks for posting. I appreciate your insight and sharing.
Scott
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 25, 2002, at 19:54:10
In reply to Re: Kidding Ourselves About Alcohol Addiction, posted by Mark H. on January 24, 2002, at 17:47:50
> Hey Scott,
>
> I think there are a lot of myths about "alcoholism," but the genetic tendency to alcohol addiction is not one of them: either you have it or you don't.
>
> Those of us who have it sooner or later realize that we cannot drink at all. Period. "Recreational" or "normal social" drinking is basically meaningless to us. We can dress it up any way we want, but either we abstain or we eventually get into trouble with it.
>
> No one ever thought I was an alcoholic, and neither did I -- until about 3 years AFTER I completely quit drinking. I've never been to an AA meeting, although I have great respect for those who go through 12-step programs for any reason. The fact remains that the vast majority of people quit drinking on their own.
>
> I lost a part of myself when I quit drinking, but I learned a lot as well. One thing I learned is how I had been kidding myself about alcohol. Another thing I learned -- to my disappointment -- was that alcohol was NOT causing all my problems.
>
> You can't judge yourself based on comparisons with others. I used that excuse for a long time. Hey, I never missed work, I didn't drive drunk (usually), I didn't hide drinks, I didn't drink during the day, I didn't even go to bars. So I couldn't possibly be an alcoholic! (hahaha)
>
> From my perspective after having been sober for just over 20 years, there's nothing to sort out. If you've got the gene, you need to abstain. Don't wait until you're stopped while driving to "sort out" why your blood test will show a mix of psychiatric medications AND alcohol. You can argue your competency to drive on your regular regimen of meds, but mixed with alcohol? Maybe you were just tired, but you'll be convicted nevertheless.
>
> I was a police dispatcher when I was in college, and I was surprised -- as a civilian -- to learn that the most seriously punished regular crime is driving under the influence. A single DUI will cost the average driver $3,000 to $5,000 in fines, legal fees, increased insurance costs, and time lost attending mandatory rehabilitation programs. It just isn't worth it.
>
> Good luck. I'm not scolding or preaching -- I'd have asked exactly the same questions 25 years ago.
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Mark H.Mark,
Thanks for posting.
Just so there isn't any ambiguity, are you saying I am probably someone with the gene who ought not to drink? An alcoholic?
Scott
Posted by PattyG on January 30, 2002, at 20:19:52
In reply to Re: For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out? » pedr, posted by Mr. Scott on January 25, 2002, at 19:44:18
Interesting...Mine thinks that alcohol causes me miniature withdrawals that are "proconvuslant" and therefore
cause dysphoria since he believes I already have a seizure type mood disorder?Anyways, thanks for posting. I appreciate your insight and sharing.
Scott
////A seizure type mood disorder? And what is its name? No disrespect intended, but am quite interested to know.
Thank you,
PattyG
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 30, 2002, at 22:11:07
In reply to Re: For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out?, posted by PattyG on January 30, 2002, at 20:19:52
> Interesting...Mine thinks that alcohol causes me miniature withdrawals that are "proconvuslant" and therefore
> cause dysphoria since he believes I already have a seizure type mood disorder?
>
> Anyways, thanks for posting. I appreciate your insight and sharing.
>
> Scott
>
> ////A seizure type mood disorder? And what is its name? No disrespect intended, but am quite interested to know.
> Thank you,
> PattyGHello Patty,
I wish I knew exactly where he was coming from on this one. I think he suspects some kind of temporal lobe epiliepsy. Perhaps its his own invention?!
Scott
Posted by PattyG on January 31, 2002, at 6:22:01
In reply to Re: For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out? » PattyG, posted by Mr. Scott on January 30, 2002, at 22:11:07
> > Interesting...Mine thinks that alcohol causes me miniature withdrawals that are "proconvuslant" and therefore
> > cause dysphoria since he believes I already have a seizure type mood disorder?
> >
> > Anyways, thanks for posting. I appreciate your insight and sharing.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > ////A seizure type mood disorder? And what is its name? No disrespect intended, but am quite interested to know.
> > Thank you,
> > PattyG
>
> Hello Patty,
>
> I wish I knew exactly where he was coming from on this one. I think he suspects some kind of temporal lobe epiliepsy. Perhaps its his own invention?!
> Scott////I sure wish you'd ask him for clarification so the rest of us can learn something! I was wondering, also, if he meant that if you *quit* drinking (let's say your regular amount - if this is applicable) if then you have the potential for seizures because of a withdrawal effect? I'm just really interested to know how he's made the determination that you have the propensity for seizure activity. Have you had any scans, etc. for this purpose?
PattyG
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 31, 2002, at 21:17:59
In reply to Re: For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out?, posted by PattyG on January 31, 2002, at 6:22:01
> > > Interesting...Mine thinks that alcohol causes me miniature withdrawals that are "proconvuslant" and therefore
> > > cause dysphoria since he believes I already have a seizure type mood disorder?
> > >
> > > Anyways, thanks for posting. I appreciate your insight and sharing.
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > ////A seizure type mood disorder? And what is its name? No disrespect intended, but am quite interested to know.
> > > Thank you,
> > > PattyG
> >
> > Hello Patty,
> >
> > I wish I knew exactly where he was coming from on this one. I think he suspects some kind of temporal lobe epiliepsy. Perhaps its his own invention?!
> > Scott
>
> ////I sure wish you'd ask him for clarification so the rest of us can learn something! I was wondering, also, if he meant that if you *quit* drinking (let's say your regular amount - if this is applicable) if then you have the potential for seizures because of a withdrawal effect? I'm just really interested to know how he's made the determination that you have the propensity for seizure activity. Have you had any scans, etc. for this purpose?
> PattyGI will ask him when I see him on Monday & I'll report back. I will inquire as to what exactly he sees in my symptoms and largely also response to medicine.
But here is his theory in a nut shell as far as I understand it.
He sees my symptom cluster of dysphoria, negativity, with ADD symptoms with learning disability and impulsive behavior (largely of the past) as a neurologic syndrome. And my inability to tolerate AD's without worsening anxiety and dysphoria due to "scratching the seizure threshold". He thinks I like benzos not because of the anxiolytic portion but because of the Anticonvulsant portion. And the truth is I also like Depakote and Neurontin just as much. AD's make some things worse and some things better for me, and he says If I could tolerate enough I would be okay but that the lowered seizure threshold which is caused by most AD's (Not Nardil apparently) makes my response go haywire. I did have an EEG as a child and it was normal. But this doctor says it wasn't done conclusively to pick out what he's talking about. I think it is mostly just his theory.
Scott
Posted by PattyG on February 1, 2002, at 8:55:02
In reply to Re: For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out? » PattyG, posted by Mr. Scott on January 31, 2002, at 21:17:59
////I sure would appreciate you asking him if he has any particular thoughts about Effexor and seizures! This is exactly what I'm trying to determine with regard to my son. I'm curious if he has any "theories" about particular AD's. Do keep us posted!
Thanks,
PattyG
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 2, 2002, at 18:06:38
In reply to Re: For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out?, posted by PattyG on February 1, 2002, at 8:55:02
> ////I sure would appreciate you asking him if he has any particular thoughts about Effexor and seizures! This is exactly what I'm trying to determine with regard to my son. I'm curious if he has any "theories" about particular AD's. Do keep us posted!
> Thanks,
> PattyG
All Tricyclics (least likely with Doxepin) lower the seizure threshold. Wellbutrin lowers the seizure threshold. Prozac lowers the seizure threshold. In fact the only AD that is clearly anticonvulsant is Nardil. However there is some evidence that Celexa is also anticonvulsant. And oddly raising serotonin itself is anticonvulsant, just apparently not most of the drugs that do so.
He said once that although Effexor isn't anticonvulsant it is "brain soothing."
Scott
Posted by PattyG on February 2, 2002, at 22:58:02
In reply to Re: For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out? » PattyG, posted by Mr. Scott on February 2, 2002, at 18:06:38
(Scott wrote)
And oddly raising serotonin itself is anticonvulsant, just apparently not
most of the drugs that do so.
////I'm sorry...........I don't understand this.
PattyG
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 3, 2002, at 12:56:34
In reply to Re: For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out?, posted by PattyG on February 2, 2002, at 22:58:02
> (Scott wrote)
> And oddly raising serotonin itself is anticonvulsant, just apparently not
> most of the drugs that do so.
>
>
> ////I'm sorry...........I don't understand this.
> PattyGRaising serotonin supposedly is anticonvulsant. However, the drugs we presently use to raise serotonin usually lower the seizure threshold because the have other properties besides just raising serotonin. From my limited knowledge it seems Nardil and Celexa are the least likely to lower the seizure threshold, and in fact may actually have unique anticonvulsant properties.
Scott
Posted by PattyG on February 3, 2002, at 13:16:29
In reply to Re: For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out? » PattyG, posted by Mr. Scott on February 3, 2002, at 12:56:34
> > (Scott wrote)
> > And oddly raising serotonin itself is anticonvulsant, just apparently not
> > most of the drugs that do so.
> >
> >
> > ////I'm sorry...........I don't understand this.
> > PattyG
>
> Raising serotonin supposedly is anticonvulsant. However, the drugs we presently use to raise serotonin usually lower the seizure threshold because the have other properties besides just raising serotonin. From my limited knowledge it seems Nardil and Celexa are the least likely to lower the seizure threshold, and in fact may actually have unique anticonvulsant properties.
>
> Scott/////That's interesting. Any documentation or statistics I could read about this? Anybody else familiar with that aspect of Nardil and Celexa?
Thanks,
PattyG
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 4, 2002, at 20:54:32
In reply to Re: For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out?, posted by PattyG on February 3, 2002, at 13:16:29
> > > (Scott wrote)
> > > And oddly raising serotonin itself is anticonvulsant, just apparently not
> > > most of the drugs that do so.
> > >
> > >
> > > ////I'm sorry...........I don't understand this.
> > > PattyG
> >
> > Raising serotonin supposedly is anticonvulsant. However, the drugs we presently use to raise serotonin usually lower the seizure threshold because the have other properties besides just raising serotonin. From my limited knowledge it seems Nardil and Celexa are the least likely to lower the seizure threshold, and in fact may actually have unique anticonvulsant properties.
> >
> > Scott
>
> /////That's interesting. Any documentation or statistics I could read about this? Anybody else familiar with that aspect of Nardil and Celexa?
> Thanks,
> PattyGThe package insert which I would assume is the same information verbatim as the information in the Physicians Desk Reference (PDR) mentions that Celexa has shown anticonvulsant effects in animal models. But I haven't seen any direct research on this, or looked for that matter either. My doc is the one who said Nardil (phenelzine) is anticonvulsant again I haven't done any research. But I almost forgot Lamictal which is in phase 3 clinical trials for unipolar depression, although everyone already knows it has antidepressant and anti-manic properties. It is currently marketed as an anticonvulsant.
Try doing dome research here--http://www4.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/
Posted by PuraVida on April 7, 2002, at 15:29:24
In reply to For some alcohol is medicine...How to sort it out?, posted by Mr. Scott on January 23, 2002, at 22:48:50
Hi Mr. Scott and all,
I've had a similar pattern, with both alcohol and food, esp when on Prozac. It seemed I got too hyped up - esp if I had a very stimulating day at work or socially. Now I'm taking Neurontin regularly and Serax as needed. I've found both to help. I've also noticed that if I'm feeling a bit keyed up about going out where there will be drinking, if I take a Serax before hand I am calmer and able to control the alchol I drink, or not drink at all.
Now, I have almost completely given up drinking, and find myself becoming more and more depressed. A friend says the alcohol masked the depression. I realize that my drinking is usually out of anxiety (I need an escape) or boredom, or both. I've been reading a lot, and it has helped greatly to replace the old disruptive habits.
Anyone know why this may be happening?
PV
> Last weeks I was feeling GREAT and thinking hey this combo of Effexor/Adrafanil/Fish Oil/Klonopin is working! But then I drank 5-6 drinks (KettleOne-tonics) on Saturday and have felt miserable, irritable, anxious, and depressed since although it seems to be less intense this time than usual (maybe it’s the meds).
>
> I have been drinking on the weekends since 7th grade, often times heavily and have done a lot of illicit drugs throughout the years as well, all while taking psychiatric medicine. These days I only drink about twice a month in the amount that I specified, but occasionally more. This is no different from the other people my age I know (who don't have psychiatric disorders and take medications of course).
>
> I have told myself thousands of times I can't drink because it makes me feel depressed, but I always end up drinking again and my mood predictably deteriorates. I’m pretty sure it is causative although now and again I wonder if it’s a bipolar cycle and the drinking is of no consequence and only serves to calm me down. I wonder if I get hypomanic (mentioned I was feeling Real Good last week) and then drink thinking I can get away with it, and this is some type of mood cycle. Alternatively I might just have mood consequences as a result of drinking. I can’t tell.
>
> Regardless how big of an impact do you think the amount of drinking I’m describing have?.
>
> Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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