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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 37. Go back in thread:
Posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 14:04:48
In reply to Re: (musical hallucinations) » IsoM, posted by Mitch on January 15, 2002, at 9:54:30
It's so neat finding other people who do the same thing! Thans for your bits & pieces. I find patterns in everything too. As a child when I was in bed sic, I'd amuse myself finding patterns in the cracks on the ceiling, the walls, anything. I could draw pictures & would often get paper & pencil & transfer all these pictures to paper.
I too, love to play music in my head when walking or working. My audio memory is terrible though & I can only do it when a song pops in. After one starts, they can all continue. But if I want to remember a certain song I know very well, I have the dickens of a time to call it forth.
And don't even mention people's names. Someone's name I've known well for years will suddenly allude me. Weeks later in the middle of not even thinking of it, the name pops out.
If you're interested, try this little brain test. It looks like utter nonsense whe you see the questions, but everyone who's tried it, says it's remarkably accurate for a short test. Even when I try it months later (unable to remember previous answers), it still comes up with the same results. It tests whether you're right- or left-brained (I'm 49%-51%, exactly in the middle) and whther you learn audio- or visually (I'm 18%-82%, no wonder I can remember little of what's said to me!).
Go to http://www.tangischools.org/schools/phs/techno/dayfour.htm & download the Brain Test - brain.exe
It's a safe program, I've got all the Norton virus scans constantly updated & fire-walls, everything - there's no viruses involved.
> > < < "When I become hypomanic (I am BPII), it is dramatically increased along with time and space distortions. I really believe these are subtle temporal lobe epilepsy symptoms. Mitch"
> >
> > Mitch, I think you've got it right. My hearing music is very mild but otherwise it sounds like what everyone else is describing.
> >
> > I tested high on the Subsyndromal epilepsy questionnaire but when one son tested himself & we talked about, he said he could actually visualise, or 'see' the images but he knows they're not hallucinations. He enjoys them as it helps him write if he sees what he's describing.
> >
> > It sounds like your hearing music is audio-hallucinations that come with this type of epilepsy.
>
>
> IsoM, I don't think I am having *seizures*. I went to a neurologist about three years ago and had an EEG and had that "BEAM" experimental brain mapping thing done. He didn't find any seizure activity, but said I had a "flat-spot" that could be a head injury and that my left frontal lobe was hypofunctional (which is consistent with my ADHD). I think what is going on is something like "cross-talk" among circuits in your brain. I believe SSRI's indirectly increase functioning in the right temporal lobe (which I belive has to do with musical memories, processing, etc.) which explains most of it. I remember years ago when I was not taking ANY meds (and was quite hypo)I could walk to school and *play* an entire record through my head. There was even times where I could "play" one tune and then "play" another tune with it or change the drums, etc.
> Another bizarro thing is my difficulty finding *names* for people I know quite well. Yesterday, at work I was sitting there snapping my fingers trying to think of someone's name I have known well for years. But, OTOH, I have an increased sense of "arrangement" or "pattern"-it is difficult to explain-it is like I "pick-up" patterns easily out of nothing.
>
> Mitch
Posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 14:19:43
In reply to Re: Music that never stops (musical hallucinations, posted by Lou Pilder on January 15, 2002, at 8:23:15
> > "...I was a Math teacher and had musical training when I was a child by my mother who was a concert pianoist. The center for math ad music in the brain is the same. I believe that this group will solve the mystery. I have reserched this for many yers and there has been no solution. No drugs will stop the music. Lou"
********************************
Lou, now you've really got me going! (Thanks to stimulating ideas & my ADHD)I've read about the math/music connection for years now & can see it with my oldest son. He's a math genius & can pick up any instrument & start teaching himself, even with no previous musical training. When he was only 2 1/2 years old, he already could sing a few simple songs & did very well! I wish I'd had the money to give him training, but at least I instilled a love of music in him.
At his software company, there's a number of math experts & they *all* have had previous musical training & ability. They were discussing it the other day. I've had the privilege of meeting some & talking with them.
Here's my question: When you get songs running through your head, what happens if you sit down & start doing math calculations, or even simpler mental math problems? Would that break up the train of music? Or have you already tried it? Do you 'see' math problems & math patterns when you relax & close your eyes, or before you sleep?
My math abilities are like my musical abilities. I can't do it either easily like a true genius, but once I get going on it, I don't want to stop & it all flows beautifully. I see math patterns very easily & love 'playing' with numbers, building & looking for patterns. I look at bare trees in winter & see the different fractal patterns. There's Fibonacchi's patterns all through nature too. For music, the point-counterpoint style is intoxicating to me. I probably sound a bit nuts, but these things do something to me that I can feel shivers down my spine when I view or hear them.
I'd love to learn more about the connections between math & music & love to hear how math affects music for you. Hope you don't think me too strange.
Posted by lou pilder on January 15, 2002, at 14:35:51
In reply to Re: Music and Math? » Lou Pilder, posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 14:19:43
> > > "...I was a Math teacher and had musical training when I was a child by my mother who was a concert pianoist. The center for math ad music in the brain is the same. I believe that this group will solve the mystery. I have reserched this for many yers and there has been no solution. No drugs will stop the music. Lou"
>
> ********************************
> Lou, now you've really got me going! (Thanks to stimulating ideas & my ADHD)
>
> I've read about the math/music connection for years now & can see it with my oldest son. He's a math genius & can pick up any instrument & start teaching himself, even with no previous musical training. When he was only 2 1/2 years old, he already could sing a few simple songs & did very well! I wish I'd had the money to give him training, but at least I instilled a love of music in him.
>
> At his software company, there's a number of math experts & they *all* have had previous musical training & ability. They were discussing it the other day. I've had the privilege of meeting some & talking with them.
>
> Here's my question: When you get songs running through your head, what happens if you sit down & start doing math calculations, or even simpler mental math problems? Would that break up the train of music? Or have you already tried it? Do you 'see' math problems & math patterns when you relax & close your eyes, or before you sleep?
>
> My math abilities are like my musical abilities. I can't do it either easily like a true genius, but once I get going on it, I don't want to stop & it all flows beautifully. I see math patterns very easily & love 'playing' with numbers, building & looking for patterns. I look at bare trees in winter & see the different fractal patterns. There's Fibonacchi's patterns all through nature too. For music, the point-counterpoint style is intoxicating to me. I probably sound a bit nuts, but these things do something to me that I can feel shivers down my spine when I view or hear them.
>
> I'd love to learn more about the connections between math & music & love to hear how math affects music for you. Hope you don't think me too strange.What a group!!! Group people; If yo know the next number in this sequence, let me know. Lou
1,1,2,3,?
Posted by fuji on January 15, 2002, at 19:26:24
In reply to Re: Music that never stops (musical hallucinations), posted by lou pilder on January 14, 2002, at 20:21:39
I have found when I am extremely anxious, songs play continuously in my head. Often I don't know I am anxious until I realize I can't get some hideously bad song out of my head. Anxiety and bad music go hand in hand in my silly head. I can't make it go away, it just finally ends on its own.
> > Any particular music? Does the music change or what? It reminds me of some people who have actually received radio stations on their fillings. Honestly! Your case sounds so strange - never heard of anything like this.
> >
> >
> > > Group people: After taking an AD for 6 days, music began playing and has never stopped. It is an adverse reaction to the AD. If you are experiancing this , email me at louelsa@cs.com Lou
>
> The music plys 24/7 It comes rom my memory. Any suggestion will trigger a song. If yo say " summer", I will hear " If everI would leaveyou, it wouldn't be in summer" This is not a case likethe person that heard music through his fillings. I wish it was for Iwould have my teeth pulled! Lou
Posted by sid on January 15, 2002, at 19:26:37
In reply to Re: Music and Math? » Lou Pilder, posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 14:19:43
That is odd... I feel the same way about music and math. Love both even though I'm not that good at either. Although I sing a lot and I do use math every day in my work. I am even thinking of studying math for the heck of it if I have time to retire before I die. And my life would be so much less pleasant without music.
Well, if Effexor XR ever makes me hear music, I hope it's Brazilian jazz. So far none of this however, just grinding my teeth (had to talk about meds!).
Posted by sid on January 15, 2002, at 19:29:49
In reply to Re: Music and Math?, posted by lou pilder on January 15, 2002, at 14:35:51
5?
Haven't done these games in a while...
You should redirect to Social Psycho Babble...
Would be fun to play math games.
Posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 19:56:22
In reply to Re: Music and Math?, posted by lou pilder on January 15, 2002, at 14:35:51
I guess I'd be discounted from posting, wouldn't I? Lou, as a kid, I used to work for hours trying to find a pattern in prime numbers. Talk about a hopeless cause.
>
>
> What a group!!! Group people; If yo know the next number in this sequence, let me know. Lou
> 1,1,2,3,?
Posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 19:59:30
In reply to Re: Music and Math? » IsoM, posted by sid on January 15, 2002, at 19:26:37
Posted by lou pilder on January 15, 2002, at 21:22:41
In reply to Re: Music and Math? I'll Post In PB Social (nm) » sid, posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 19:59:30
Sid gets a gold star. He answered correctly that the next number in the sequence 1,1,2,3,? would be 5. This is called a Fibbonacci sequence and it has great importance to the subject of musical hallucinations. Beethoven's music fit the patteren of a Fibbonacci sequence. I believe that there is a mathematical cure to stopping the music and it is related to Fibbonacci's work.
Lou
Posted by Mitch on January 16, 2002, at 0:41:27
In reply to Re: (musical hallucinations), posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 14:04:48
Posted by Mitch on January 16, 2002, at 1:07:17
In reply to Re: Music and Math? I'll Post In PB Social » IsoM, posted by lou pilder on January 15, 2002, at 21:22:41
> Sid gets a gold star. He answered correctly that the next number in the sequence 1,1,2,3,? would be 5. This is called a Fibbonacci sequence and it has great importance to the subject of musical hallucinations. Beethoven's music fit the patteren of a Fibbonacci sequence. I believe that there is a mathematical cure to stopping the music and it is related to Fibbonacci's work.
> LouLou,
I remember watching that indie film PI. Watch that movie and grab a calculator or scratch out the problems that the little girl in the stairway comes up with for the math recluse to solve. You will see some interesting things. It tends to link number theory and mysticism. I talked to a philosophy prof. in college about similar things and he dismissed it as debunked Platonic number mysticism. The movie PI tends to point out that you can waste your time chasing your tail over such things (and ended up with the mathematician self-mutilating his ability to do mathematics).
Music seems to be some form of inverted "negative" of mathematics. I know diddly-squat about musical "mechanics" and only mediocre mathematical "mechanics". BUT, ask a musician about the structure (written) music sometime and what it means. I get the feeling that it is a science and structure of "nothingness"-timing-time, etc. You are "counting" "nothings" (intervals) as opposed to counting "somethings". It is like a really cool science of "nothingness" (Music).
MEDS affect how I perceive time passing. Meds that help my ADHD seem to *expand* the present moment to include remembered contexts and help me anticipate the future based on the past-a flow experience. Prozac especially seemed to enable me to see patterns as "pretty".
Most mathematics seems to be a lot of "pretty ideas". Maybe depression has something to do with the *perception* in the *mind's eye* of *ugliness* or *beauty* with the abstractions we all create in our heads from experience which can be greatly swayed chemically.
Mitch
Posted by sid on January 16, 2002, at 7:35:21
In reply to Re: Music and Math? I'll Post In PB Social » IsoM, posted by lou pilder on January 15, 2002, at 21:22:41
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2002, at 8:37:33
In reply to Re: Music and Math? I'll Post In PB Social » IsoM, posted by lou pilder on January 15, 2002, at 21:22:41
> Sid gets a gold star. He answered correctly that the next number in the sequence 1,1,2,3,? would be 5. This is called a Fibbonacci sequence and it has great importance to the subject of musical hallucinations. Beethoven's music fit the patteren of a Fibbonacci sequence. I believe that there is a mathematical cure to stopping the music and it is related to Fibbonacci's work.
> LouBabble people: We are opening up something that I believe will lead to a breakthrough in the area of music and its relation to our similar conditions. Perhaps music is te key to all of our conditions. Right On babble people!
Lou
Posted by IsoM on January 16, 2002, at 12:43:36
In reply to Re: Music and Math? I'll Post In PB Social, posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2002, at 8:37:33
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2002, at 15:28:51
In reply to Re: Lou, C'mon Over To PB Social With Us! (nm), posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2002, at 15:19:10
Babble people: We must stay on yje main board for we are breaking new horizons and we will reach the answers to the mysteries of babbledom. We will uncover the cloak of the mishagosh that inflicts us. Wait I say, wait.
Lou
Posted by IsoM on January 16, 2002, at 16:54:30
In reply to Re: Lou, C'mon Over To PB Social With Us! » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2002, at 15:28:51
Lou, don't discount PB Social as unimportant. It's just Dr. Bob uses these forums for research too & to make it orderly, this forum's supposed to be the treatment of psych problems with medications & PB Social is about other strategies for psych problems, including the social support side. Even if we continue here, Dr. Bob himself will redirect this thread over.
Lou, you never answered my question on whether your mental music ceases if you do math calculations in your head, or more difficult calculations on paper. I'm curious.
Quite a few years ago, I read The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat by Dr. Oliver Sacks. It was case studies of people's perceptions & experiences of the world who had neurological disorders from a myriad of reasons.
In the case of the man in the book's title, he had a tumour that was inoperable & as it progressed his behaviour changed due to his altered visual perception of the world. When he was shown a florist's rose & asked to describe it, he used terms like long, thin green linear object with a larger red convoluted, multifolded end. When he was asked what it was, he didn't know. The doctor asked him to hold the red end to his nose & sniff. When he did so, the man replied in surprise "why, it's a rose!"
As his condition progressed, he was only able to do things if his wife laid everything out in a row (like dressing himself or eating) & he moved from one thing to the next. What was interesting was he was only able to do this while singing or humming to himself through the process. If someone interrupted him in his humming, he was lost. He had no idea what he was doing or where to pick up.
I recalled his story when I noticed about a year ago that when I'm working at a task that doesn't take a great deal of mental concentration, that I hum or sing to myself the whole time (unless I'm depressed). It keeps me focused on my task & I can do it in an orderly fashion without forgetting anyhting in the train of work. Some days, the same melody will be hummed by me over & over for literally hours at a time. If some one comes along & I need to deal with them, I do but when they leave I turn back to my task & humming. I used to do it unaware of it until someone brought it to my attention.
Don't forget to answer about mental music & do math in your head. :)
> Babble people: We must stay on yje main board for we are breaking new horizons and we will reach the answers to the mysteries of babbledom. We will uncover the cloak of the mishagosh that inflicts us. Wait I say, wait.
> Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2002, at 17:04:53
In reply to Re: Going to PB Social With Us! » Lou Pilder, posted by IsoM on January 16, 2002, at 16:54:30
> Lou, don't discount PB Social as unimportant. It's just Dr. Bob uses these forums for research too & to make it orderly, this forum's supposed to be the treatment of psych problems with medications & PB Social is about other strategies for psych problems, including the social support side. Even if we continue here, Dr. Bob himself will redirect this thread over.
>
> Lou, you never answered my question on whether your mental music ceases if you do math calculations in your head, or more difficult calculations on paper. I'm curious.
>
> Quite a few years ago, I read "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat" by Dr. Oliver Sacks. It was case studies of people's perceptions & experiences of the world who had neurological disorders from a myriad of reasons.
>
> In the case of the man in the book's title, he had a tumour that was inoperable & as it progressed his behaviour changed due to his altered visual perception of the world. When he was shown a florist's rose & asked to describe it, he used terms like long, thin green linear object with a larger red convoluted, multifolded end. When he was asked what it was, he didn't know. The doctor asked him to hold the red end to his nose & sniff. When he did so, the man replied in surprise "why, it's a rose!"
>
> As his condition progressed, he was only able to do things if his wife laid everything out in a row (like dressing himself or eating) & he moved from one thing to the next. What was interesting was he was only able to do this while singing or humming to himself through the process. If someone interrupted him in his humming, he was lost. He had no idea what he was doing or where to pick up.
>
> I recalled his story when I noticed about a year ago that when I'm working at a task that doesn't take a great deal of mental concentration, that I hum or sing to myself the whole time (unless I'm depressed). It keeps me focused on my task & I can do it in an orderly fashion without forgetting anyhting in the train of work. Some days, the same melody will be hummed by me over & over for literally hours at a time. If some one comes along & I need to deal with them, I do but when they leave I turn back to my task & humming. I used to do it unaware of it until someone brought it to my attention.
>
> Don't forget to answer about mental music & do math in your head. :)
>
> > Babble people: We must stay on yje main board for we are breaking new horizons and we will reach the answers to the mysteries of babbledom. We will uncover the cloak of the mishagosh that inflicts us. Wait I say, wait.
> > LouDoes The Music Stop When Calculating?
No, the music overides any attempt to mask or divert it. Right now , I am hearing, "You have a friend" The music is all instrumental, never voices. The instruments are cracked and errie, like from a horror movie. But the song that is playing now is a result of your kind consideration of my condition.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2002, at 18:21:30
In reply to Re: Musical Numbers » lou pilder, posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 19:56:22
> I guess I'd be discounted from posting, wouldn't I? Lou, as a kid, I used to work for hours trying to find a pattern in prime numbers. Talk about a hopeless cause.
> >
> >
> > What a group!!! Group people; If yo know the next number in this sequence, let me know. Lou
> > 1,1,2,3,?Babbledom people: To clarify the Fibbonacci sequence 1,1,2,3, ? The next number is 5. Now someone tell me the next number in this sequence. Hint: It is not 7.
Lou
Posted by IsoM on January 16, 2002, at 19:03:08
In reply to Re: Musical Numbers, posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2002, at 18:21:30
Okay, you didn't say I couldn't answer...
Next is 8, then 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, etc, etc.I don't want to be picky but you forgot the first Fibonacci number which is 0 (zero).
> > I guess I'd be discounted from posting, wouldn't I? Lou, as a kid, I used to work for hours trying to find a pattern in prime numbers. Talk about a hopeless cause.
> > >
> > >
> > > What a group!!! Group people; If yo know the next number in this sequence, let me know. Lou
> > > 1,1,2,3,?
>
> Babbledom people: To clarify the Fibbonacci sequence 1,1,2,3, ? The next number is 5. Now someone tell me the next number in this sequence. Hint: It is not 7.
> Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2002, at 19:12:57
In reply to Re: Musical Numbers » Lou Pilder, posted by IsoM on January 16, 2002, at 19:03:08
> Okay, you didn't say I couldn't answer...
> Next is 8, then 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, etc, etc.
>
> I don't want to be picky but you forgot the first Fibonacci number which is 0 (zero).
>
> > > I guess I'd be discounted from posting, wouldn't I? Lou, as a kid, I used to work for hours trying to find a pattern in prime numbers. Talk about a hopeless cause.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What a group!!! Group people; If yo know the next number in this sequence, let me know. Lou
> > > > 1,1,2,3,?
> >
> > Babbledom people: To clarify the Fibbonacci sequence 1,1,2,3, ? The next number is 5. Now someone tell me the next number in this sequence. Hint: It is not 7.
> > LouIsohedren is great. The answer is 8. You get the next number by adding the two previous numbers togeather. Very few people know of this sequence, but I believe that it is the key to solving our states of mental disequalibrium. You see, there is a ratio in the Fibbonacci sequence that is the state of equalibrium in nature. I am asking for all Babbledom people to think about this and publish their thoughts in this forum and we will all go to the promised land as we escape our curse.
Lou
Lou
Posted by sid on January 16, 2002, at 19:57:14
In reply to Re: Musical Numbers, posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2002, at 18:21:30
Well, if I understood right, it's 8.
> > I guess I'd be discounted from posting, wouldn't I? Lou, as a kid, I used to work for hours trying to find a pattern in prime numbers. Talk about a hopeless cause.
> > >
> > >
> > > What a group!!! Group people; If yo know the next number in this sequence, let me know. Lou
> > > 1,1,2,3,?
>
> Babbledom people: To clarify the Fibbonacci sequence 1,1,2,3, ? The next number is 5. Now someone tell me the next number in this sequence. Hint: It is not 7.
> Lou
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 16, 2002, at 21:35:36
In reply to Re: Musical Numbers, posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2002, at 19:12:57
> I am asking for all Babbledom people to think about this and publish their thoughts in this forum and we will all go to the promised land as we escape our curse.
Thoughts not about medication should in fact be published at Psycho-Social-Babble:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020112/msgs/16798.html
Where you go after that is out of my hands. :-)
Bob
PS: And follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Posted by miskk on August 17, 2004, at 11:54:01
In reply to Re: Music and Math? » IsoM, posted by sid on January 15, 2002, at 19:26:37
anyone realize what torment musical hallucinations are when they can't stop and are like a tornado of sound and walls of noises crashing over you -- as real as any verbal "outside" sound -- it's not cool it's not a party it's not fun. it's a nightmare in the day. unescapable. antiseizure meds help the most but not enough. anyone have any solutions anything? i'm intelligent, not pyschiatric or pychotic {too bad those types of meds don't help me! i wish!} - i've tried everything i think -- losing my life here. thank you.
Posted by sobstory on August 17, 2004, at 15:24:39
In reply to musical hallucinations in general, posted by miskk on August 17, 2004, at 11:54:01
Do the sounds seem to come from around you or inside your head? I wonder if it's a form of tinnitus, where one gets a constant buzzing or ringing in the ear? That's what I have, but it's not that bad and doesn't drive me crazy because I've gotten used to it. You may want to see a Ear Nose and Throat Specialist, and your family doctor can refer you to one. There are tinnitus support groups out there, and some people take anti-depressants to help them cope.
> anyone realize what torment musical hallucinations are when they can't stop and are like a tornado of sound and walls of noises crashing over you -- as real as any verbal "outside" sound -- it's not cool it's not a party it's not fun. it's a nightmare in the day. unescapable. antiseizure meds help the most but not enough. anyone have any solutions anything? i'm intelligent, not pyschiatric or pychotic {too bad those types of meds don't help me! i wish!} - i've tried everything i think -- losing my life here. thank you.
Posted by karlak13 on August 20, 2004, at 19:51:27
In reply to musical hallucinations in general, posted by miskk on August 17, 2004, at 11:54:01
I heard music all day all the time. Are you sure you are not phycotic? Have you ever tried an antiphycotic drug to see if it would help the noise stop? I did and it was wonderful to hear silence. Many people however are stuck hearing music forever and no meds help. I have heard that using headphones and cranking the music up helps kill the music you were hearing in your head. You may want to try that and see if it helps.
This is the end of the thread.
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