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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 37. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 14, 2002, at 19:50:09
Group people: After taking an AD for 6 days, music began playing and has never stopped. It is an adverse reaction to the AD. If you are experiancing this , email me at louelsa@cs.com Lou
Posted by IsoM on January 14, 2002, at 20:11:49
In reply to Music that never stops (musical hallucinations), posted by Lou Pilder on January 14, 2002, at 19:50:09
Any particular music? Does the music change or what? It reminds me of some people who have actually received radio stations on their fillings. Honestly! Your case sounds so strange - never heard of anything like this.
> Group people: After taking an AD for 6 days, music began playing and has never stopped. It is an adverse reaction to the AD. If you are experiancing this , email me at louelsa@cs.com Lou
Posted by lou pilder on January 14, 2002, at 20:21:39
In reply to Re: Music that never stops (musical hallucinations) » Lou Pilder, posted by IsoM on January 14, 2002, at 20:11:49
> Any particular music? Does the music change or what? It reminds me of some people who have actually received radio stations on their fillings. Honestly! Your case sounds so strange - never heard of anything like this.
>
>
> > Group people: After taking an AD for 6 days, music began playing and has never stopped. It is an adverse reaction to the AD. If you are experiancing this , email me at louelsa@cs.com LouThe music plys 24/7 It comes rom my memory. Any suggestion will trigger a song. If yo say " summer", I will hear " If everI would leaveyou, it wouldn't be in summer" This is not a case likethe person that heard music through his fillings. I wish it was for Iwould have my teeth pulled! Lou
Posted by IsoM on January 14, 2002, at 20:34:00
In reply to Re: Music that never stops (musical hallucinations), posted by lou pilder on January 14, 2002, at 20:21:39
Sorry, Lou - it doesn't sound like me. I 'hear' music but only to a degree & many things trigger it but it doesn't go on endlessly & I can tell it's just my audio memory replaying. I wish I had a suggestion but don't. Can you blank it by singing quietly to yourself or by listening to other music? What about playing something complicated like some classical music. Would it help erase the previous music?
> The music plys 24/7. It comes from my memory. Any suggestion will trigger a song. If you say "summer", I will hear "If ever I would leave you, it wouldn't be in summer". This is not a case like the person that heard music through his fillings. I wish it was for I would have my teeth pulled! Lou
Posted by MB on January 14, 2002, at 20:37:16
In reply to Music that never stops (musical hallucinations), posted by Lou Pilder on January 14, 2002, at 19:50:09
> Group people: After taking an AD for 6 days, music began playing and has never stopped. It is an adverse reaction to the AD. If you are experiancing this , email me at louelsa@cs.com Lou
I had this on mushrooms ten years ago. I've never experienced it on ADs. Tell us more about your experience.MB
Posted by Blue Cheer 1 on January 14, 2002, at 22:11:18
In reply to Re: Music that never stops (musical hallucinations), posted by lou pilder on January 14, 2002, at 20:21:39
> > Any particular music? Does the music change or what? It reminds me of some people who have actually received radio stations on their fillings. Honestly! Your case sounds so strange - never heard of anything like this.
> >
> >
> > > Group people: After taking an AD for 6 days, music began playing and has never stopped. It is an adverse reaction to the AD. If you are experiancing this , email me at louelsa@cs.com Lou
>
> The music plys 24/7 It comes rom my memory. Any suggestion will trigger a song. If yo say " summer", I will hear " If everI would leaveyou, it wouldn't be in summer" This is not a case likethe person that heard music through his fillings. I wish it was for Iwould have my teeth pulled! LouHi, Lou. I apologize for never writing you back a year or so ago. I recall you mentioning that you were corresponding with a researcher who was studying this phenomenon. I know exactly what you're talking about, and I don't think they're hallucinations at all. It's one of my most distressing symptoms, and they started immediately after discontinuation of long-term Valium (over 20 years), which was preceded (one month earlier) by lithium discontinuation -- after using it for 25 years. Following diazepam d/c, I developed severe OCD symptoms and had to be hospitalized. (Dx was changed from bipolar disorder to OCD *only*, and I was subsequently treated with high-dose SSRIs (Zoloft 200 mg/day; Prozac 80 mg/day), and after 13 months of this (minus a mood stabilizer), I had a severe dysphoric manic episode. Lithium was reinstituted, of course, and I was told I had comorbid BD and OCD. But, I'd never had any OCD symptoms before Valium d/c, and the only symptom that didn't resolve after being treated with high
se SSRI administration was *intrusive music*. Obsessional symptoms have been described in the literature as part of BZD withdrawal So, the hearing of music can definitely be precipitated by drugs (most notably benzodiazepines). Do you have any OCD symptoms, I wonder? I plan to write Padmal de Silva soon. He's a psychologist at the University of London (King's College), and has written much about OCD and songs or music. He calls it non-visual obsessional imagery. Even now, if you do a search on google or alt.support.ocd in google groups for "ocd intrusive music", you'll see it listed as a symptom of OCD on scales. Changes in septo-hippocampal function have been postulated as precipitating OCD in benzodiazepine withdrawal (Jeffrey Gray: _The Neuropsychology of Anxiety_). Anyway, I'm interested in hearing more about how you experience this.
Talk to you soon.
Blue
Posted by petey on January 14, 2002, at 22:44:16
In reply to Re: Music that never stops (musical hallucinations), posted by lou pilder on January 14, 2002, at 20:21:39
> > Any particular music? Does the music change or what? It reminds me of some people who have actually received radio stations on their fillings. Honestly! Your case sounds so strange - never heard of anything like this.
> >
> >
> > > Group people: After taking an AD for 6 days, music began playing and has never stopped. It is an adverse reaction to the AD. If you are experiancing this , email me at louelsa@cs.com Lou
>
> The music plys 24/7 It comes rom my memory. Any suggestion will trigger a song. If yo say " summer", I will hear " If everI would leaveyou, it wouldn't be in summer" This is not a case likethe person that heard music through his fillings. I wish it was for Iwould have my teeth pulled! LouLou,
I have experienced the exact same thing from taking Paxil/Zoloft. My pdoc never heard of this reaction and put me on Risperdal thinking I was schizophrenic. I really thought I was losing my mind! It wasn't until I found psycho-babble that I heard of this side-effect from SSRI'S. The Risperdal made me so much worse, made me REAL paranoid. Got myself off that and all the paranoia went away! I have just got myself off Zoloft about 9 weeks now and still have a problem with the music, but it is SO much better. I still hear it when I first get up in the morning or when I'm listening to music in my car, it will stick with me when I'm shopping,etc., until my mind focuses on something else. It has really been a scary experience, so bad that I am afraid to try any other meds. I'm on 5htp now and it really helps with my anxiety,depression is better, but still am suffering some. My depression is SO much worse since starting on these meds. It really makes me sick! Take care and God bless!
Petey
Posted by Mitch on January 15, 2002, at 0:07:40
In reply to Re: Music that never stops (musical hallucinations), posted by petey on January 14, 2002, at 22:44:16
> Lou,
> I have experienced the exact same thing from taking Paxil/Zoloft. My pdoc never heard of this reaction and put me on Risperdal thinking I was schizophrenic. I really thought I was losing my mind! It wasn't until I found psycho-babble that I heard of this side-effect from SSRI'S. The Risperdal made me so much worse, made me REAL paranoid. Got myself off that and all the paranoia went away! I have just got myself off Zoloft about 9 weeks now and still have a problem with the music, but it is SO much better. I still hear it when I first get up in the morning or when I'm listening to music in my car, it will stick with me when I'm shopping,etc., until my mind focuses on something else. It has really been a scary experience, so bad that I am afraid to try any other meds. I'm on 5htp now and it really helps with my anxiety,depression is better, but still am suffering some. My depression is SO much worse since starting on these meds. It really makes me sick! Take care and God bless!
> Petey
Hi Petey and Lou,SSRI antidepressants have always triggered music playing in my head. Prozac triggered musical hallucinations (and taste-smell hallucinations, too). The higher the dose of SSRi I get the more repetitive it becomes. I don't "hear" entire songs, I hear snippets of songs. As the dose of SSri is increased the music seems "louder", the snippet becomes "shorter", and I get "stuck" on one particular song for a longer time. When I become hypomanic (I am BPII), it is dramatically increased along with time and space distortions. I really believe these are subtle temporal lobe epilepsy symptoms.
Mitch
Posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 0:45:12
In reply to Re: Music that never stops (musical hallucinations) » petey, posted by Mitch on January 15, 2002, at 0:07:40
< < "When I become hypomanic (I am BPII), it is dramatically increased along with time and space distortions. I really believe these are subtle temporal lobe epilepsy symptoms. Mitch"
Mitch, I think you've got it right. My hearing music is very mild but otherwise it sounds like what everyone else is describing.
I tested high on the Subsyndromal epilepsy questionnaire but when one son tested himself & we talked about, he said he could actually visualise, or 'see' the images but he knows they're not hallucinations. He enjoys them as it helps him write if he sees what he's describing.
It sounds like your hearing music is audio-hallucinations that come with this type of epilepsy.
Posted by Anna Laura on January 15, 2002, at 1:38:10
In reply to Music that never stops (musical hallucinations), posted by Lou Pilder on January 14, 2002, at 19:50:09
> Group people: After taking an AD for 6 days, music began playing and has never stopped. It is an adverse reaction to the AD. If you are experiancing this , email me at louelsa@cs.com Lou
I've experienced something similar ten years ago during benzo withdrawal (prazepam).
It only lasted ten minutes or so and i had some control on it (thanks god).
My guess is that it might be anxiety related.
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 15, 2002, at 8:23:15
In reply to Re: Music that never stops (musical hallucinations, posted by Anna Laura on January 15, 2002, at 1:38:10
> > Group people: After taking an AD for 6 days, music began playing and has never stopped. It is an adverse reaction to the AD. If you are experiancing this , email me at louelsa@cs.com Lou
>
> I've experienced something similar ten years ago during benzo withdrawal (prazepam).
> It only lasted ten minutes or so and i had some control on it (thanks god).
> My guess is that it might be anxiety related.Lou says, "thanks". Group people, the music is off-key and can not be masked. I have found 6 cases in the history of the world like mine, Beethoven being one of them. I was a Math teacher and had musical training when I was a child by my mother who was a concert pianoist. The center for math ad music in the brain is the same. I believe that this group will solve the mystery. I have reserched this for many yers and there has been no solution. No drugs will stop the music. Lou
Posted by Mitch on January 15, 2002, at 9:54:30
In reply to Re: (musical hallucinations) » Mitch, posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 0:45:12
> < < "When I become hypomanic (I am BPII), it is dramatically increased along with time and space distortions. I really believe these are subtle temporal lobe epilepsy symptoms. Mitch"
>
> Mitch, I think you've got it right. My hearing music is very mild but otherwise it sounds like what everyone else is describing.
>
> I tested high on the Subsyndromal epilepsy questionnaire but when one son tested himself & we talked about, he said he could actually visualise, or 'see' the images but he knows they're not hallucinations. He enjoys them as it helps him write if he sees what he's describing.
>
> It sounds like your hearing music is audio-hallucinations that come with this type of epilepsy.
IsoM, I don't think I am having *seizures*. I went to a neurologist about three years ago and had an EEG and had that "BEAM" experimental brain mapping thing done. He didn't find any seizure activity, but said I had a "flat-spot" that could be a head injury and that my left frontal lobe was hypofunctional (which is consistent with my ADHD). I think what is going on is something like "cross-talk" among circuits in your brain. I believe SSRI's indirectly increase functioning in the right temporal lobe (which I belive has to do with musical memories, processing, etc.) which explains most of it. I remember years ago when I was not taking ANY meds (and was quite hypo)I could walk to school and *play* an entire record through my head. There was even times where I could "play" one tune and then "play" another tune with it or change the drums, etc.
Another bizarro thing is my difficulty finding *names* for people I know quite well. Yesterday, at work I was sitting there snapping my fingers trying to think of someone's name I have known well for years. But, OTOH, I have an increased sense of "arrangement" or "pattern"-it is difficult to explain-it is like I "pick-up" patterns easily out of nothing.Mitch
Posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 14:04:48
In reply to Re: (musical hallucinations) » IsoM, posted by Mitch on January 15, 2002, at 9:54:30
It's so neat finding other people who do the same thing! Thans for your bits & pieces. I find patterns in everything too. As a child when I was in bed sic, I'd amuse myself finding patterns in the cracks on the ceiling, the walls, anything. I could draw pictures & would often get paper & pencil & transfer all these pictures to paper.
I too, love to play music in my head when walking or working. My audio memory is terrible though & I can only do it when a song pops in. After one starts, they can all continue. But if I want to remember a certain song I know very well, I have the dickens of a time to call it forth.
And don't even mention people's names. Someone's name I've known well for years will suddenly allude me. Weeks later in the middle of not even thinking of it, the name pops out.
If you're interested, try this little brain test. It looks like utter nonsense whe you see the questions, but everyone who's tried it, says it's remarkably accurate for a short test. Even when I try it months later (unable to remember previous answers), it still comes up with the same results. It tests whether you're right- or left-brained (I'm 49%-51%, exactly in the middle) and whther you learn audio- or visually (I'm 18%-82%, no wonder I can remember little of what's said to me!).
Go to http://www.tangischools.org/schools/phs/techno/dayfour.htm & download the Brain Test - brain.exe
It's a safe program, I've got all the Norton virus scans constantly updated & fire-walls, everything - there's no viruses involved.
> > < < "When I become hypomanic (I am BPII), it is dramatically increased along with time and space distortions. I really believe these are subtle temporal lobe epilepsy symptoms. Mitch"
> >
> > Mitch, I think you've got it right. My hearing music is very mild but otherwise it sounds like what everyone else is describing.
> >
> > I tested high on the Subsyndromal epilepsy questionnaire but when one son tested himself & we talked about, he said he could actually visualise, or 'see' the images but he knows they're not hallucinations. He enjoys them as it helps him write if he sees what he's describing.
> >
> > It sounds like your hearing music is audio-hallucinations that come with this type of epilepsy.
>
>
> IsoM, I don't think I am having *seizures*. I went to a neurologist about three years ago and had an EEG and had that "BEAM" experimental brain mapping thing done. He didn't find any seizure activity, but said I had a "flat-spot" that could be a head injury and that my left frontal lobe was hypofunctional (which is consistent with my ADHD). I think what is going on is something like "cross-talk" among circuits in your brain. I believe SSRI's indirectly increase functioning in the right temporal lobe (which I belive has to do with musical memories, processing, etc.) which explains most of it. I remember years ago when I was not taking ANY meds (and was quite hypo)I could walk to school and *play* an entire record through my head. There was even times where I could "play" one tune and then "play" another tune with it or change the drums, etc.
> Another bizarro thing is my difficulty finding *names* for people I know quite well. Yesterday, at work I was sitting there snapping my fingers trying to think of someone's name I have known well for years. But, OTOH, I have an increased sense of "arrangement" or "pattern"-it is difficult to explain-it is like I "pick-up" patterns easily out of nothing.
>
> Mitch
Posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 14:19:43
In reply to Re: Music that never stops (musical hallucinations, posted by Lou Pilder on January 15, 2002, at 8:23:15
> > "...I was a Math teacher and had musical training when I was a child by my mother who was a concert pianoist. The center for math ad music in the brain is the same. I believe that this group will solve the mystery. I have reserched this for many yers and there has been no solution. No drugs will stop the music. Lou"
********************************
Lou, now you've really got me going! (Thanks to stimulating ideas & my ADHD)I've read about the math/music connection for years now & can see it with my oldest son. He's a math genius & can pick up any instrument & start teaching himself, even with no previous musical training. When he was only 2 1/2 years old, he already could sing a few simple songs & did very well! I wish I'd had the money to give him training, but at least I instilled a love of music in him.
At his software company, there's a number of math experts & they *all* have had previous musical training & ability. They were discussing it the other day. I've had the privilege of meeting some & talking with them.
Here's my question: When you get songs running through your head, what happens if you sit down & start doing math calculations, or even simpler mental math problems? Would that break up the train of music? Or have you already tried it? Do you 'see' math problems & math patterns when you relax & close your eyes, or before you sleep?
My math abilities are like my musical abilities. I can't do it either easily like a true genius, but once I get going on it, I don't want to stop & it all flows beautifully. I see math patterns very easily & love 'playing' with numbers, building & looking for patterns. I look at bare trees in winter & see the different fractal patterns. There's Fibonacchi's patterns all through nature too. For music, the point-counterpoint style is intoxicating to me. I probably sound a bit nuts, but these things do something to me that I can feel shivers down my spine when I view or hear them.
I'd love to learn more about the connections between math & music & love to hear how math affects music for you. Hope you don't think me too strange.
Posted by lou pilder on January 15, 2002, at 14:35:51
In reply to Re: Music and Math? » Lou Pilder, posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 14:19:43
> > > "...I was a Math teacher and had musical training when I was a child by my mother who was a concert pianoist. The center for math ad music in the brain is the same. I believe that this group will solve the mystery. I have reserched this for many yers and there has been no solution. No drugs will stop the music. Lou"
>
> ********************************
> Lou, now you've really got me going! (Thanks to stimulating ideas & my ADHD)
>
> I've read about the math/music connection for years now & can see it with my oldest son. He's a math genius & can pick up any instrument & start teaching himself, even with no previous musical training. When he was only 2 1/2 years old, he already could sing a few simple songs & did very well! I wish I'd had the money to give him training, but at least I instilled a love of music in him.
>
> At his software company, there's a number of math experts & they *all* have had previous musical training & ability. They were discussing it the other day. I've had the privilege of meeting some & talking with them.
>
> Here's my question: When you get songs running through your head, what happens if you sit down & start doing math calculations, or even simpler mental math problems? Would that break up the train of music? Or have you already tried it? Do you 'see' math problems & math patterns when you relax & close your eyes, or before you sleep?
>
> My math abilities are like my musical abilities. I can't do it either easily like a true genius, but once I get going on it, I don't want to stop & it all flows beautifully. I see math patterns very easily & love 'playing' with numbers, building & looking for patterns. I look at bare trees in winter & see the different fractal patterns. There's Fibonacchi's patterns all through nature too. For music, the point-counterpoint style is intoxicating to me. I probably sound a bit nuts, but these things do something to me that I can feel shivers down my spine when I view or hear them.
>
> I'd love to learn more about the connections between math & music & love to hear how math affects music for you. Hope you don't think me too strange.What a group!!! Group people; If yo know the next number in this sequence, let me know. Lou
1,1,2,3,?
Posted by fuji on January 15, 2002, at 19:26:24
In reply to Re: Music that never stops (musical hallucinations), posted by lou pilder on January 14, 2002, at 20:21:39
I have found when I am extremely anxious, songs play continuously in my head. Often I don't know I am anxious until I realize I can't get some hideously bad song out of my head. Anxiety and bad music go hand in hand in my silly head. I can't make it go away, it just finally ends on its own.
> > Any particular music? Does the music change or what? It reminds me of some people who have actually received radio stations on their fillings. Honestly! Your case sounds so strange - never heard of anything like this.
> >
> >
> > > Group people: After taking an AD for 6 days, music began playing and has never stopped. It is an adverse reaction to the AD. If you are experiancing this , email me at louelsa@cs.com Lou
>
> The music plys 24/7 It comes rom my memory. Any suggestion will trigger a song. If yo say " summer", I will hear " If everI would leaveyou, it wouldn't be in summer" This is not a case likethe person that heard music through his fillings. I wish it was for Iwould have my teeth pulled! Lou
Posted by sid on January 15, 2002, at 19:26:37
In reply to Re: Music and Math? » Lou Pilder, posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 14:19:43
That is odd... I feel the same way about music and math. Love both even though I'm not that good at either. Although I sing a lot and I do use math every day in my work. I am even thinking of studying math for the heck of it if I have time to retire before I die. And my life would be so much less pleasant without music.
Well, if Effexor XR ever makes me hear music, I hope it's Brazilian jazz. So far none of this however, just grinding my teeth (had to talk about meds!).
Posted by sid on January 15, 2002, at 19:29:49
In reply to Re: Music and Math?, posted by lou pilder on January 15, 2002, at 14:35:51
5?
Haven't done these games in a while...
You should redirect to Social Psycho Babble...
Would be fun to play math games.
Posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 19:56:22
In reply to Re: Music and Math?, posted by lou pilder on January 15, 2002, at 14:35:51
I guess I'd be discounted from posting, wouldn't I? Lou, as a kid, I used to work for hours trying to find a pattern in prime numbers. Talk about a hopeless cause.
>
>
> What a group!!! Group people; If yo know the next number in this sequence, let me know. Lou
> 1,1,2,3,?
Posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 19:59:30
In reply to Re: Music and Math? » IsoM, posted by sid on January 15, 2002, at 19:26:37
Posted by lou pilder on January 15, 2002, at 21:22:41
In reply to Re: Music and Math? I'll Post In PB Social (nm) » sid, posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 19:59:30
Sid gets a gold star. He answered correctly that the next number in the sequence 1,1,2,3,? would be 5. This is called a Fibbonacci sequence and it has great importance to the subject of musical hallucinations. Beethoven's music fit the patteren of a Fibbonacci sequence. I believe that there is a mathematical cure to stopping the music and it is related to Fibbonacci's work.
Lou
Posted by Mitch on January 16, 2002, at 0:41:27
In reply to Re: (musical hallucinations), posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 14:04:48
Posted by Mitch on January 16, 2002, at 1:07:17
In reply to Re: Music and Math? I'll Post In PB Social » IsoM, posted by lou pilder on January 15, 2002, at 21:22:41
> Sid gets a gold star. He answered correctly that the next number in the sequence 1,1,2,3,? would be 5. This is called a Fibbonacci sequence and it has great importance to the subject of musical hallucinations. Beethoven's music fit the patteren of a Fibbonacci sequence. I believe that there is a mathematical cure to stopping the music and it is related to Fibbonacci's work.
> LouLou,
I remember watching that indie film PI. Watch that movie and grab a calculator or scratch out the problems that the little girl in the stairway comes up with for the math recluse to solve. You will see some interesting things. It tends to link number theory and mysticism. I talked to a philosophy prof. in college about similar things and he dismissed it as debunked Platonic number mysticism. The movie PI tends to point out that you can waste your time chasing your tail over such things (and ended up with the mathematician self-mutilating his ability to do mathematics).
Music seems to be some form of inverted "negative" of mathematics. I know diddly-squat about musical "mechanics" and only mediocre mathematical "mechanics". BUT, ask a musician about the structure (written) music sometime and what it means. I get the feeling that it is a science and structure of "nothingness"-timing-time, etc. You are "counting" "nothings" (intervals) as opposed to counting "somethings". It is like a really cool science of "nothingness" (Music).
MEDS affect how I perceive time passing. Meds that help my ADHD seem to *expand* the present moment to include remembered contexts and help me anticipate the future based on the past-a flow experience. Prozac especially seemed to enable me to see patterns as "pretty".
Most mathematics seems to be a lot of "pretty ideas". Maybe depression has something to do with the *perception* in the *mind's eye* of *ugliness* or *beauty* with the abstractions we all create in our heads from experience which can be greatly swayed chemically.
Mitch
Posted by sid on January 16, 2002, at 7:35:21
In reply to Re: Music and Math? I'll Post In PB Social » IsoM, posted by lou pilder on January 15, 2002, at 21:22:41
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2002, at 8:37:33
In reply to Re: Music and Math? I'll Post In PB Social » IsoM, posted by lou pilder on January 15, 2002, at 21:22:41
> Sid gets a gold star. He answered correctly that the next number in the sequence 1,1,2,3,? would be 5. This is called a Fibbonacci sequence and it has great importance to the subject of musical hallucinations. Beethoven's music fit the patteren of a Fibbonacci sequence. I believe that there is a mathematical cure to stopping the music and it is related to Fibbonacci's work.
> LouBabble people: We are opening up something that I believe will lead to a breakthrough in the area of music and its relation to our similar conditions. Perhaps music is te key to all of our conditions. Right On babble people!
Lou
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