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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by spike4848 on January 5, 2002, at 9:41:51
Anyone take verapamil/calan for blood pressure here? I have heard it helps with mood and am considering taking it for depression/panic. Has it help anyone here with depression or anxiety? Thank you.
Spike
Posted by OldSchool on January 5, 2002, at 11:28:05
In reply to VERAPAMIL/CALAN for depression or anxiety ....., posted by spike4848 on January 5, 2002, at 9:41:51
> Anyone take verapamil/calan for blood pressure here? I have heard it helps with mood and am considering taking it for depression/panic. Has it help anyone here with depression or anxiety? Thank you.
>
> SpikeNo, Verapamil has absolutely no uses for depression. In fact calcium channel blockers like Verapamil have been implicated in the development or worsening of depression. There is some evidence for Verapamil usage in refractory mania however.
The preferred blood pressure meds for depression are the ACE Inhibitors and the beta blocker Pindolol. Diuretics also have no depression worsening effect. One of the ACE Inhibitors, Captopril is even reputed to have prominent antidepressant properties.
Old School
Posted by spike4848 on January 5, 2002, at 12:10:44
In reply to Re: VERAPAMIL/CALAN for depression or anxiety ....., posted by OldSchool on January 5, 2002, at 11:28:05
> No, Verapamil has absolutely no uses for depression. In fact calcium channel blockers like Verapamil have been implicated in the development or worsening of depression. There is some evidence for Verapamil usage in refractory mania however.
> Old School
Hey Old School,
Well from what I have read, there is evidence supporting verapamil helping panic/anxiety. Also as you mention it being effective in bipolar disorder ... although controversial.
What I find very interesting is the migraine/mood disorder connection. I see lots of people with migraine headaches and concominent anxiety/depression. And so many of the treatments are the same ... namely elavil, depakote, ssri's, sometime neurontin and lastly *Verapamil*. So I wonder if anyone has had any personal sucess with it.
Sadly, I don't think we will ever see a good, large scale study on verapamil because it is generic. So no drug company funding, no study! It is too bad, because the side effect profile is minimal.
Thanks for the reply,
Spike
Posted by Chloe on January 5, 2002, at 16:07:11
In reply to VERAPAMIL/CALAN for depression or anxiety ....., posted by spike4848 on January 5, 2002, at 9:41:51
Spike,
I just had a psychopharm consult for my bp 2 rapid cycling and anxiety/depression. He recommended verapamil(pdoc said can be esp. good for rapid cycling), clonidine or possibly gabitril. I can't tolerate mood stabilizers very well, so I really want to give verapamil a try...
Let me know if you find out any info, ok?
Chloe
> Anyone take verapamil/calan for blood pressure here? I have heard it helps with mood and am considering taking it for depression/panic. Has it help anyone here with depression or anxiety? Thank you.
>
> Spike
Posted by OldSchool on January 5, 2002, at 20:24:33
In reply to Migraine Headaches and Mood disorders » OldSchool, posted by spike4848 on January 5, 2002, at 12:10:44
> > No, Verapamil has absolutely no uses for depression. In fact calcium channel blockers like Verapamil have been implicated in the development or worsening of depression. There is some evidence for Verapamil usage in refractory mania however.
>
> > Old School
>
> Hey Old School,
>
> Well from what I have read, there is evidence supporting verapamil helping panic/anxiety. Also as you mention it being effective in bipolar disorder ... although controversial.
>
> What I find very interesting is the migraine/mood disorder connection. I see lots of people with migraine headaches and concominent anxiety/depression. And so many of the treatments are the same ... namely elavil, depakote, ssri's, sometime neurontin and lastly *Verapamil*. So I wonder if anyone has had any personal sucess with it.
>
> Sadly, I don't think we will ever see a good, large scale study on verapamil because it is generic. So no drug company funding, no study! It is too bad, because the side effect profile is minimal.
>
> Thanks for the reply,
>
> Spike
Spike, Ive never read or heard of Verapamil having any mood elevating qualities to it. More the opposite. In fact there is something here on Dr. Bob's tips and tricks that mentions calcium channel blockers can cause or exacerbate depression. Go to the tips and do a search for calcium channel blockers and it will pull up.As for Verapamil being used for refractory mania that is well documented. So is its use for headache prophylaxis. I had a neurologist rx me Verapamil for vascular headaches once and this is a definite usage for Verapamil.
Maybe cause the verapamil kills your headaches that makes you feel better and makes your depression a little better. But as far as Verapamil having any actual AD qualities to it...forget about it.
Old School
Posted by spike4848 on January 6, 2002, at 1:14:47
In reply to Re: Migraine Headaches and Mood disorders, posted by OldSchool on January 5, 2002, at 20:24:33
> Maybe cause the verapamil kills your headaches that makes you feel better and makes your depression a little better. But as far as Verapamil having any actual AD qualities to it...forget about it.
>
> Old SchoolHey Brother,
Points well taken ... but can I have just a little hope that someone reacted positively to verapamil .... please
Spike
Posted by OldSchool on January 6, 2002, at 10:06:08
In reply to Re: Migraine Headaches and Mood disorders » OldSchool, posted by spike4848 on January 6, 2002, at 1:14:47
>
> > Maybe cause the verapamil kills your headaches that makes you feel better and makes your depression a little better. But as far as Verapamil having any actual AD qualities to it...forget about it.
> >
> > Old School
>
> Hey Brother,
>
> Points well taken ... but can I have just a little hope that someone reacted positively to verapamil .... please
>
> SpikeYeah OK dude...Verapamil is awesome for vascular headaches. It shrinks those inflamed blood vessels in your head down real good.
Have you ever tried depakote for headache prophylaxis? I found depakote AWESOME for severe headaches. Its FDA approved for migraine prophylaxis BTW.
Old School
Posted by spike4848 on January 6, 2002, at 13:47:34
In reply to Re: Migraine Headaches and Mood disorders, posted by OldSchool on January 6, 2002, at 10:06:08
> Have you ever tried depakote for headache prophylaxis? I found depakote AWESOME for severe headaches. Its FDA approved for migraine prophylaxis BTW.
>
> Old SchoolDear O.S.,
Actually, I don't have migraine headaches. I do know alot of people who take depakote for migraines. It is good sh*t ...
Spike
Posted by dove on January 8, 2002, at 15:32:27
In reply to Re: Migraine Headaches and Mood disorders » OldSchool, posted by spike4848 on January 6, 2002, at 13:47:34
>
> Anyone take verapamil/calan for blood pressure here? I have heard it helps with mood and am considering taking it for depression/panic. Has it help anyone here with depression or anxiety? Thank you.
>
> Spike
>
>
>No, Verapamil has absolutely no uses for depression. In fact calcium channel blockers like Verapamil have been implicated in the development or worsening of depression.
>Do you have any abstracts to back up this claim? Truly, I'm *not* asking that question in a harsh or sarcastic manner, I'd really be interested in viewing *any* definite data regarding the use of verapamil in the psych-setting.
Also, I know first hand that it did not *just* get rid of my migraines, it did influence my entire psyche and view of the world even when I was having a blinding headache. And there are many more of us out here who will testify to verapamil's ability to lessen depression even in *non* bipolars!
>
>The preferred blood pressure meds for depression are the ACE Inhibitors and the beta blocker Pindolol. Diuretics also have no depression worsening effect. One of the ACE Inhibitors, Captopril is even reputed to have prominent antidepressant properties.
>ACE Inhibitors are stereotyped as having a serious and significant depressive effects. In fact, I have seen some of the scariest and fastest dives into suicidal depression after three days on an ACE Inhibitor. And though I can't say for certain at this moment in time, I don't believe the Beta-Blockers have a great reputation for whacking depression. However, Pindolol is often used for anxiety with absolutely great results!
There is no harm in giving Verapamil the time of the day, especially for those of us who have many paradoxical reactions to meds and are often hard to treat.
dove
Posted by cmcdougall on January 9, 2002, at 10:44:35
In reply to Re: Migraine Headaches and Mood disorders, posted by dove on January 8, 2002, at 15:32:27
I have suffered for years w/ weekly migraines and chronic daily headache. The use of verapamil interest me....
Can it be used PRN (as needed)? Must it be taken daily to have any effect? And lastly, have your migraines returned since you quit taking the verapamil?
Thanks so much,
Carly
Posted by dove on January 10, 2002, at 13:41:33
In reply to Re: Migraine Headaches and Mood disorders » dove, posted by cmcdougall on January 9, 2002, at 10:44:35
>
> Can it be used PRN (as needed)? Must it be taken daily to have any effect? And lastly, have your migraines returned since you quit taking the verapamil?
>1) It can *not* be used PRN. It must be taken everyday like so many other meds, which is unfortunate. On the other hand, it sure did a miraculous job on those migraines!
2) My migraines came back quick and strong, lasting longer, while my depression began to significantly deepen. I told my Internal Doc more than a few times, however, he believed it was all due to the withdrawal of Verapamil.
I was then prescribed Amitriptyline (Elevil) for the *migraines*. Mood and depression changed drastically (not necessarily for the better--it just changed), migraines lessened but didn't disappear like they did when I was taking Verapamil.
Does this help? Best of luck to you and if I confused you along the way, let me know :o)
dove
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