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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ross on December 27, 2001, at 17:56:03
cam,
i am starting a detox tonight so i have 14 days under my belt because i want to start Nardil because of social anxiety and depression. ive been through the whole gamut and ive never tried an MAOI. i think i will respond greatly from Nardil. i have a few questions
1) when i see my pdoc ask him for what drug that lowers BP in case of hypertensive reaction? what dosage is usually reccommended?
2) how high can you let your BP go before taking the med
3) what if it brings BP down to much. what do you do to get it up a bit?
4) must i avoid all cheese's????
any info you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
elizabeth has helped me with some questions.
thank you
ross
Posted by Cam W. on December 27, 2001, at 20:49:47
In reply to CamW some help please on Nardil, posted by ross on December 27, 2001, at 17:56:03
Ross - I have far less experience with MAOIs than Elizabeth. I am not sure that a doc will allow a person to carry "rescue meds" for hypertensive crisis. This is something that you and your doc would have to hash out. It would be unprofessional of me to get involved in any decision like this. Sorry.
The worst offenders for cheeses are they aged ones. Many people taking MAOIs can eat mild cheeses, but I say, why risk it.
- Cam
Posted by spike4848 on December 28, 2001, at 0:49:25
In reply to Re: CamW some help please on Nardil » ross, posted by Cam W. on December 27, 2001, at 20:49:47
I am a four year nardil veteran. I am also a physician as well ... hope this helps. In the literature, you will often hear about nifedipine as a good antihypertensive to use during a crisis. Usually 30 mg capsule is suffiency. Some authors recommend opening the capsule, placing the medicine under the tongue and let it get absorbed sublingually.
I personally found it easier to carry around clonidine 0.1 mg. It is a very small tablet-fit in my wallet and is very potent- one dose will tide you over til you get to the emergency room.
And I strongly recommend you get to the emergency room. Don't play around with hypertensive crisis ... I have a several patient with high blood pressure who have had strokes and are in wheel chairs because they did not manage their blood pressure correctly.
Otherwise, I have found nardil to be the single most effective med for severe depression and anxiety. I personally have had the best 4 years of my life on nardil. I have date several wonderful women, able to get involved in theatre and just overall happy.
feel free to email me sibler_j@hotmail.com
Spike4848
Posted by bob on December 28, 2001, at 1:32:22
In reply to Hey Ross, posted by spike4848 on December 28, 2001, at 0:49:25
Ross:
It is reassuring to hear that Nardil has helped you.
I would assume that you've experienced significant weight gain and sexual dysfunction in those four years? If I hear otherwise I would be quite heartened. I once saw a post on another board of a person who had been on Nardil for 15 years living with complete elimination of any ability to have sex. That was scary!
My condition is pretty pathetic these days, so the docs are starting to talk about MAOIs for me. Nardil seems to be the favorite on this board. I don't see Parnate discussed that much, and the others I hardly ever see.
Bob
Posted by spike4848 on December 28, 2001, at 21:15:17
In reply to Re: Hey Ross » spike4848, posted by bob on December 28, 2001, at 1:32:22
> I would assume that you've experienced significant weight gain and sexual dysfunction in those four years?
That is the irony I think most who take nardil experience. On the one hand, we are finally free from our depression and anxiety to venture out and experience life. Finally able to go out a share with others and start relationships. On the other hand, inevitablely the weight gain starts adding up and yes .... severe sexual dysfunction. It is so frustrating.
So that is why I am off nardil now. 35 lbs weight gain, sexual dysfunction, insomnia and memory problem.
Actually while writing the post last night and also today, I am strongly considering returning to nardil once again. Simply, nothing else works for me! And my depression and anxiety are really wearing me down.
Spike
Posted by bob on December 29, 2001, at 0:08:11
In reply to Yup, packing on the pounds, posted by spike4848 on December 28, 2001, at 21:15:17
Frustrating is not the word for it. I personally would refer to AD treatments as bordering on tragic. The weight gain is bad enough. The sexual dysfunction is literally taking away a part of our humanity. I f'ing hate it.
Does the medical establishment even realize how much everybody hates the treatments they have to offer? It brings new meaning to the saying "pick your poison".
Posted by bob on December 29, 2001, at 0:18:04
In reply to Yup, packing on the pounds, posted by spike4848 on December 28, 2001, at 21:15:17
Did the sexual dysfunction ever lessen at all?
Did the weight gain ever stabilize?
Posted by bob on December 29, 2001, at 0:51:13
In reply to Yup, packing on the pounds, posted by spike4848 on December 28, 2001, at 21:15:17
Two final questions, Spike.
1 - Nardil caused you memory problems?
2 - What drug or drug cocktails are you currently taking that isn't doing the job for you?
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by spike4848 on December 29, 2001, at 8:27:07
In reply to Re: Yup, packing on the pounds » spike4848, posted by bob on December 29, 2001, at 0:18:04
> Did the sexual dysfunction ever lessen at all?
Not for me. It lessened when I started trazodone for sleep. Trazodone I believe is a selective serotonin agonist, 5HT-2 receptor. But I also lost the antidepressant effect.
I also tried lowering the dose and adding lamitical. Not much help either.
> Did the weight gain ever stabilize?
I went from 180 to 225-220. I could stay at 215 if I drank simply water and diet soda with my sensible meals. I just got these crazy carbohydrate craving .... if I dieted in three days I would need to eat a pint of Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream. I would wake up with hunger pains.
1 - Nardil caused you memory problems?
Well, some minor memory problems .... but this was incombination with 0.5 of klonopin which contributed as well. Just forgot little things, like the names of people in a movie I just saw, studing was alittle harder.
2 - What drug or drug cocktails are you currently taking that isn't doing the job for you?
Since I have try so many antidepressants without luck with the exception of nardil and I have features of atypical depression, I thought it maybe possible I have mild bipolar features. So I am trying lithium still with 0.5 klonopin. Not much help either.
Spike
Posted by bob on December 29, 2001, at 14:35:45
In reply to Re: Yup, packing on the pounds, posted by spike4848 on December 29, 2001, at 8:27:07
Posted by kregpark@yahoo.com on January 12, 2002, at 17:46:29
In reply to Re: Yup, packing on the pounds, posted by spike4848 on December 29, 2001, at 8:27:07
Hi Spike -
Over 8 years I spent probably 5+ choosing Nardil, 2 of those high dose alone, and 3 at low/medium dose with adjunct.
In some experiments inbetween jobs I tried varied Nardil doses of my longtime combo Nardil + Klonopin.
My "therapetic level" of each is 4.5K and 90N.
I found that at 4.5Klonopin, increasing Nardil 60+ added increasing sedation / insomnia starting at 75.
Taken alone 90 Nardil didn't cause me problem with insonnia or sedation (very activating high energy).Anyway was just going to mention some thoughts:
I have had good luck adding stimulants to Nardil at the lower dose of 60 improving efficacy without the increasing side effects of high Nardil.(A Doctor may or may not like these ideas). Mine had no problem if starting low and I'm careful he trusts me now.
Provigil: One of these (favorite) has been 50-100 Provigil with 60 Nardil. More alert, reduced anxiety, less fear, more confidence, more vigilance, more sociable. More activated.
Wellbutrin: I did very well (maybe better than Provigil in efficacy) adding 25-50 (very low) Wellbutrin per day with 60 Nardil. Dr.s may not like this combo but worked well for me. Similar to adding Provigil but more physical energy too. Problem for me: Hair loss and exasserbation (sp?) of 17 year scalp follicultis in remission 10 years after Accutane. Actually now on Accutane 2nd time because I find that Provigil higher and Nardil lower (I like) also can aggrevate the scalp problem so I want to get rid of that.
Dexedrine: I took this 60 Nardil once and was extremely pro-social and mood lift (now I'd call it anti-dysthmia). Boosts SE, DA and NE. I had rebound depression next day and was under impression it would not keep working long per my info I'd seen. People on this board have proven iti's possible to keep it working long run. I would consider it myself in future possibly.
Ritalin: A possibility if not too agitating. To me, effect is similar to Wellbutrin, rebound depression common though as with Dexdrine w/o sustained use or something else to prevent that.Good luck would be interested to hear what happens:
kreg park
http://www.socialfear.com/
At 90 Nardil I didn't lower Klonopin much...Antidepressants without luck with the exception of nardil and I have features of atypical depression, I thought it maybe possible I have mild bipolar features. So I am trying lithium still with 0.5 klonopin. Not much help either.
>
> Spike
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