Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 84482

Shown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

jaw tension, tension headaches

Posted by JohnX2 on November 17, 2001, at 2:31:51


For those of you experiencing
jaw tension on SSRI's, here is
my list of anti-dotes:

Stuff I tried that worked (and why):

- Serzone (5ht-2a antagonist)
- Zyprexa (5ht-2a antagonist)
- Adderall (dopaminergic)
- anti-histamines (high dose of benadryl,
average dose of chlorpheniramine maleate)

Stuff potentially recommend
(I haven't tried, or tried and
might work but didn't)
- Baclofen
- Buspar (probably due to anti-serotonergic
firing properties)

I'm not quite sure why I got relief
from the anti-histamines, but I have a
background theory.

I would be curious is anyone having
jaw tension took a double dose of
the anti-histamine chlorpheriamine maleate
and reported back on the results.
It would work quickly the same day if it responded.
Make sure to check for drug interactions.
For some reason this one cures pain in my
face and also lifts depression really fast.

Anyone else with insights on this
issue please share your thoughts.

BTW I wouldn't expect dopaminergic meds
that stimulate dopamine receptors like
Mirapex or Bromocriptine to help as the
problem lies with dopamine neurons that are
modulated by serotonin receptors. These dopamine
neurons do not contain auto-receptors, etc,
and are quite unique to primates.

Still not quite sure how the anti-histamines may
indirectly tie in (have a little bit of a
theory), this was just a weird personal
observation.

-john

 

Re: jaw tension, tension headaches

Posted by JohnX2 on November 17, 2001, at 3:06:29

In reply to jaw tension, tension headaches, posted by JohnX2 on November 17, 2001, at 2:31:51


Whoops, left out my #1 anti-dote:
- Klonopin

>
> For those of you experiencing
> jaw tension on SSRI's, here is
> my list of anti-dotes:
>
> Stuff I tried that worked (and why):
>
> - Serzone (5ht-2a antagonist)
> - Zyprexa (5ht-2a antagonist)
> - Adderall (dopaminergic)
> - anti-histamines (high dose of benadryl,
> average dose of chlorpheniramine maleate)
>
> Stuff potentially recommend
> (I haven't tried, or tried and
> might work but didn't)
> - Baclofen
> - Buspar (probably due to anti-serotonergic
> firing properties)
>
> I'm not quite sure why I got relief
> from the anti-histamines, but I have a
> background theory.
>
> I would be curious is anyone having
> jaw tension took a double dose of
> the anti-histamine chlorpheriamine maleate
> and reported back on the results.
> It would work quickly the same day if it responded.
> Make sure to check for drug interactions.
> For some reason this one cures pain in my
> face and also lifts depression really fast.
>
> Anyone else with insights on this
> issue please share your thoughts.
>
> BTW I wouldn't expect dopaminergic meds
> that stimulate dopamine receptors like
> Mirapex or Bromocriptine to help as the
> problem lies with dopamine neurons that are
> modulated by serotonin receptors. These dopamine
> neurons do not contain auto-receptors, etc,
> and are quite unique to primates.
>
> Still not quite sure how the anti-histamines may
> indirectly tie in (have a little bit of a
> theory), this was just a weird personal
> observation.
>
> -john

 

Re: jaw tension, tension headaches

Posted by JohnX2 on November 17, 2001, at 7:00:31

In reply to Re: jaw tension, tension headaches, posted by JohnX2 on November 17, 2001, at 3:06:29


I love replying to myself. Is that a symptom
of schizophrenia?

Well, seems as though all these meds could be involved
in the treatment of EPS or negative psychosis.
That's my common denominator.

I'm guess the anti-histamines are working via
anti-cholinergic mechanisms for me.

>
> Whoops, left out my #1 anti-dote:
> - Klonopin
>
> >
> > For those of you experiencing
> > jaw tension on SSRI's, here is
> > my list of anti-dotes:
> >
> > Stuff I tried that worked (and why):
> >
> > - Serzone (5ht-2a antagonist)
> > - Zyprexa (5ht-2a antagonist)
> > - Adderall (dopaminergic)
> > - anti-histamines (high dose of benadryl,
> > average dose of chlorpheniramine maleate)
> >
> > Stuff potentially recommend
> > (I haven't tried, or tried and
> > might work but didn't)
> > - Baclofen
> > - Buspar (probably due to anti-serotonergic
> > firing properties)
> >
> > I'm not quite sure why I got relief
> > from the anti-histamines, but I have a
> > background theory.
> >
> > I would be curious is anyone having
> > jaw tension took a double dose of
> > the anti-histamine chlorpheriamine maleate
> > and reported back on the results.
> > It would work quickly the same day if it responded.
> > Make sure to check for drug interactions.
> > For some reason this one cures pain in my
> > face and also lifts depression really fast.
> >
> > Anyone else with insights on this
> > issue please share your thoughts.
> >
> > BTW I wouldn't expect dopaminergic meds
> > that stimulate dopamine receptors like
> > Mirapex or Bromocriptine to help as the
> > problem lies with dopamine neurons that are
> > modulated by serotonin receptors. These dopamine
> > neurons do not contain auto-receptors, etc,
> > and are quite unique to primates.
> >
> > Still not quite sure how the anti-histamines may
> > indirectly tie in (have a little bit of a
> > theory), this was just a weird personal
> > observation.
> >
> > -john

 

Re: jaw tension, tension headaches » JohnX2

Posted by jazzdog on November 17, 2001, at 17:56:38

In reply to Re: jaw tension, tension headaches, posted by JohnX2 on November 17, 2001, at 7:00:31

Hi John -

I've suffered from jaw pain and bruxism for years, even before I started on zoloft nearly ten years ago. I believe the term is tempero-mandibular joint syndrome, or tmj. It's amazingly common. Certainly anything that damps down the nervous systems, like benzos or antihistamines, can help temporarily, but I prefer to spare my seratonin receptors and opt for a more mundane approach. Essentially, I sleep with a mouthguard, custom-made through my dentist, that keeps me from doing any damage when I grind my teeth. There are other techniques I've tried, including cranio-sacral massage, tmj exercises, and stress management. In Europe, dentists fit patients with splints to reallign their jaws - it's invasive, but some people swear by it.

The bite guard is a bit of a drag, but it sure beats crippling jaw pain and headaches. I know what you're going through witht his. Good luck.

- Jane


 

Re: jaw tension, tension headaches » jazzdog

Posted by JohnX2 on November 17, 2001, at 18:02:49

In reply to Re: jaw tension, tension headaches » JohnX2, posted by jazzdog on November 17, 2001, at 17:56:38


I thought I might have TMJ, but the neurologist
said negative. bruxism is common outcome of a
stress disorder. Also common amongst stimulant
abusers.

I may try a mouth guard. Can't hurt.

Do you get the problem during the middle of
the day like I did from the med exposure?

-john

> Hi John -
>
> I've suffered from jaw pain and bruxism for years, even before I started on zoloft nearly ten years ago. I believe the term is tempero-mandibular joint syndrome, or tmj. It's amazingly common. Certainly anything that damps down the nervous systems, like benzos or antihistamines, can help temporarily, but I prefer to spare my seratonin receptors and opt for a more mundane approach. Essentially, I sleep with a mouthguard, custom-made through my dentist, that keeps me from doing any damage when I grind my teeth. There are other techniques I've tried, including cranio-sacral massage, tmj exercises, and stress management. In Europe, dentists fit patients with splints to reallign their jaws - it's invasive, but some people swear by it.
>
> The bite guard is a bit of a drag, but it sure beats crippling jaw pain and headaches. I know what you're going through witht his. Good luck.
>
> - Jane

 

Re: jaw tension, tension headaches

Posted by ben on November 18, 2001, at 2:44:06

In reply to Re: jaw tension, tension headaches » jazzdog, posted by JohnX2 on November 17, 2001, at 18:02:49

Hi I got bruxism and tension headaches of Paxil (30 mg/day) but not of any other ADs. Unfortunately Paxil worked better against my depression but gave me this bad side effect.
Now I have reduced Paxil and I feel fewer tensions in head and teeth. From that I read about bruxism it is caused by serotonine stimulation, stress and predisposition. I realized more bruxism when I added Ritalin, so dopaminergic stimulation isnt the target (there are reports for dexaampthemine induced bruxism -- > dopaminergic stimuklation). Clonazepam (Rivotril) works well against bruxism, but I get too sedated of only 0.25 mg at bedtime...dizzy in the morning. Anthistaminergic drugs often cause sadation as well and in long term use weight gain is a big problem. Buspirone (Buspar) sounds theoretically good and there are studies supporting good effects. I didnt try it because my doc have a lot more failures in adding Buspar than good results.


> I thought I might have TMJ, but the neurologist
> said negative. bruxism is common outcome of a
> stress disorder. Also common amongst stimulant
> abusers.
>
> I may try a mouth guard. Can't hurt.
>
> Do you get the problem during the middle of
> the day like I did from the med exposure?
>
> -john
>
> > Hi John -
> >
> > I've suffered from jaw pain and bruxism for years, even before I started on zoloft nearly ten years ago. I believe the term is tempero-mandibular joint syndrome, or tmj. It's amazingly common. Certainly anything that damps down the nervous systems, like benzos or antihistamines, can help temporarily, but I prefer to spare my seratonin receptors and opt for a more mundane approach. Essentially, I sleep with a mouthguard, custom-made through my dentist, that keeps me from doing any damage when I grind my teeth. There are other techniques I've tried, including cranio-sacral massage, tmj exercises, and stress management. In Europe, dentists fit patients with splints to reallign their jaws - it's invasive, but some people swear by it.
> >
> > The bite guard is a bit of a drag, but it sure beats crippling jaw pain and headaches. I know what you're going through witht his. Good luck.
> >
> > - Jane

 

Re: jaw tension, tension headaches » JohnX2

Posted by jazzdog on November 18, 2001, at 13:08:18

In reply to Re: jaw tension, tension headaches » jazzdog, posted by JohnX2 on November 17, 2001, at 18:02:49


I've sometimes gotten it in the day when stressed, because I have a tendency to clench my jaw. I believe that zoloft, and maybe other ssri's, give some sort of chemical signal to clench the jaw, an effect that I believe you've outlined previously - but stress can do the same thing.

I don't see how a neurologist could say you have or don't have it - it's more a matter for a dentist. A pinched nerve is involved, but it's quite a mechanical process - not something likely to show up in neurological tests. Next time you have it, try to apply fingertip pressure to the jaw joint just in front of the bottom of your ear, and see if you feel either a worsening or some relief. That's where the pressure and the pinched nerve are. I've experienced it variously as severe earache; horrible toothache in the molar area; headache, especially in the temple area; and jaw pain so severe I couldn't open my mouth to chew and had to sip smoothies through a straw.

Hope this helps - Jane

>
> I thought I might have TMJ, but the neurologist
> said negative. bruxism is common outcome of a
> stress disorder. Also common amongst stimulant
> abusers.
>
> I may try a mouth guard. Can't hurt.
>
> Do you get the problem during the middle of
> the day like I did from the med exposure?
>
> -john

 

Re: jaw tension, tension headaches » jazzdog

Posted by JohnX2 on November 18, 2001, at 13:25:23

In reply to Re: jaw tension, tension headaches » JohnX2, posted by jazzdog on November 18, 2001, at 13:08:18

The test you described was the one the
Neurologist performed. A guy who sits next to
me at work has TMJ and verified that I was
administered the same test as him (which
gave him screaming pain, and no pain for me).
Anyways, I still think seeing a specialist
in this area is worthwhile.

Thanks,
john


>
> I've sometimes gotten it in the day when stressed, because I have a tendency to clench my jaw. I believe that zoloft, and maybe other ssri's, give some sort of chemical signal to clench the jaw, an effect that I believe you've outlined previously - but stress can do the same thing.
>
> I don't see how a neurologist could say you have or don't have it - it's more a matter for a dentist. A pinched nerve is involved, but it's quite a mechanical process - not something likely to show up in neurological tests. Next time you have it, try to apply fingertip pressure to the jaw joint just in front of the bottom of your ear, and see if you feel either a worsening or some relief. That's where the pressure and the pinched nerve are. I've experienced it variously as severe earache; horrible toothache in the molar area; headache, especially in the temple area; and jaw pain so severe I couldn't open my mouth to chew and had to sip smoothies through a straw.
>
> Hope this helps - Jane
>
>
>
> >
> > I thought I might have TMJ, but the neurologist
> > said negative. bruxism is common outcome of a
> > stress disorder. Also common amongst stimulant
> > abusers.
> >
> > I may try a mouth guard. Can't hurt.
> >
> > Do you get the problem during the middle of
> > the day like I did from the med exposure?
> >
> > -john

 

Re: jaw tension, tension headaches

Posted by Mark H. on November 18, 2001, at 21:28:41

In reply to jaw tension, tension headaches, posted by JohnX2 on November 17, 2001, at 2:31:51

My experience has been the same as Jane's.

I know of two relatively inexpensive alternatives to custom-fitted mouth guards. One of my doctors recommends something used by athletes that you can buy at a sports shop. I haven't tried it, so I don't know how it would be to sleep with it in.

The other is the the boil-and-bite trays that come with home teeth whitening kits. They are made of a soft, translucent plastic that you heat and form to fit your teeth by closing on them and sucking all the air out of your mouth. You use a separate tray for the top teeth and bottom teeth. The whitening gel helps to hold them in place.

I had had persistent jaw pain for several weeks that I couldn't seem to alleviate, but even after one night of wearing the whitening trays, it started to improve. In less than two weeks, the jaw pain disappeared completely.

Like Jane, my pain moved around. Sometimes it felt like the worst ear infection imaginable. At other times, I could not chew anything. So spending $25 on a teeth whitening kit at the drugstore turned out to be a bargain treatment for jaw pain, even if it wasn't all that effective at whitening my teeth.

(This is off-topic, but I know I'll get questions, so here's the answer: for those interested in home teeth whitening, the stuff your dentist uses is available at

http://www.northwesttrends.com

under "Fashions" of all things; you get 4 ounces (a relatively HUGE amount) of carbamide peroxide gel instead of the few cc's that you get with the drug store kits, for only about $15 more. Their site is funky, but their service is good, and their product works.)

Good luck, and thanks for sharing your observations on alleviating jaw pain. I agree that clonazepam is probably the best medication to try for this condition.

Mark H.

 

Re: jaw tension, tension headaches - THNX (nm) » Mark H.

Posted by JohnX2 on November 18, 2001, at 22:23:16

In reply to Re: jaw tension, tension headaches, posted by Mark H. on November 18, 2001, at 21:28:41

 

Re: jaw tension, tension headaches » JohnX2

Posted by jazzdog on November 19, 2001, at 11:47:58

In reply to Re: jaw tension, tension headaches » jazzdog, posted by JohnX2 on November 18, 2001, at 13:25:23

You might also want to check out trifacial neuralgia. I believe it can sometimes be caused by drug reactions.

- Jane

 

Re: jaw tension, tension headaches » jazzdog

Posted by JohnX2 on November 19, 2001, at 13:21:15

In reply to Re: jaw tension, tension headaches » JohnX2, posted by jazzdog on November 19, 2001, at 11:47:58


I haven't heard of "trifacial" neuralgia.
Is that the same as trigeminal neuralgia?
I have discussed this with my doctor, my
responses to anti-convulsants seem to indicate
that this is not my problem.

Thanks for your insight.
-john

> You might also want to check out trifacial neuralgia. I believe it can sometimes be caused by drug reactions.
>
> - Jane


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