![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 16, 2001, at 12:24:50
I haven't drank in a long time but I am using anti-anxiety, anti-depression medications which have been very discouraging. I am a college student & would take 20 mg Ritalin (methylphenidate) twice per day on Monday through Thursday (as prescribed by GP), and then get drunk (binge drink) Thursday, Friday, & Saturday, & then recover from my hangover & take Ritalin to study on Sunday. On this regimen I managed to get about a 3.0 GPA every semester at a very academically demanding university- the University of Texas at Austin.
I was sick of people telling me that I get drunk too much at every party so I started taking Zoloft to help decrease the need to drink. It turned out that Zoloft counteracted the Ritalin & then made me "dumb as a brick" & I barely passes through finals even though I previously had A's & B's in all my classes. The next semester I had to pursue a medical withdrawl through the college dean because of the debilitating effects of these anti-depressants. I would never recommend any anti-depressants to college students, especially those who drink once in awhile on the weekends, unless they go to a ridiculously easy college like Texas A & M University.
I was referred to a psychiatrist at this point who took away the Ritalin because of my history of binge drinking. He then put me on Remeron (Mirtzapine) -no anti-depressant effect at 45 mg, and I did not drink alcohol anymore at this point, but the Remeron just made me so tired (slept 17 hours per night) I could not get out of bed to go to class in the morning), then Effexor XR (which I had to stop on my own accord because I had rapid heartbeat, palpitations, insomnia, & chest pain- I even had to fly home to my parents house because i thought I was going to have a heart attack (& i'm only 23!)
Now I am taking Celexa which even thought I have just started on it at half the starting dose for a week (10 mg) it seems to not make me nervous or cause insomnia like all the SSRIs I have tried. I read that Celexa may be the best SSRI for anxious patients b.c it doesn't affect the adrenergic glands or dopamine like Zoloft does (slightly) & has no norepinephrine effect (norepinephine= nervousness) & also has a slight sedating effect.The Celexa is augmented by Klonopin(Clonazepam) for social anxiety/phobia 1 mg per day split into 2 doses but this doesn't seem to do a whole lot for me (cross tolerance from previous alcohol abuse?).
If this Klonopin/Celexa combo doesn't work I am then rapidly running out of options (I also tried Paxil long ago- nausea & nervousness). Klonopin is supposed to be the best social phobia medicine- the only thing better is Nardil-the cheese effect MAO inhibitor drug (I could eliminate cheese/tyramine from my diet but how severe are the other side effects?) Or I could get the psychiatrist to increase the klonopin dose, but nowadays doctors seem to think benzodiazepines are the devil even though they are much safer than vodka! Plus Benzos, unlike alcohol, cause no long term damage to kidneys or other organs, hence there is no reason not to take them if needed, even for the rest of your life.
The only reason i drank on the weekends was to release my inhibitions so i can socialize with girls/women. So I am trying to find a 'disinhibitor' that approximates the disinhibiting, relaxing, wonderful feeling you get after drinking three beers, but one that works 24 hours a day (like antidepressants do) instead of only a few hours.
I've also learned that 1-2 beers clears you arteries and lessens you chance of a heart attack. Maybe i should have 1 beer at lunch & 1 beer at dinner & stop taking these worthless antidepressants.
The only other meds I can think of that have these 3 beers properties are the following, although I have no experiences with them- perhaps one of you would be likely to elaborate on you own personal experiences.
1. Meprobamate (Miltown)
2. Phenobarbital
3. Nardil
4. Parnate
5. Chloral Hydrate (actually metabolizes to ethanol in the system, the only true alcohol in a pill- perhaps this is the answer to my social phobia?)6.Neurontin- Someone said something about this once, what is this medication & what does it do?
It is a shame that with a hundred years of pharmaceutical research, the medicines for social anxiety pale in comparison to the 3000 year old drug alcohol, & the one medicine that may have equaled alcohol in effaciousness for anxiety/disinhibition (GHB) was banned immediately. Could you imagine if alcohol had been invented a few years ago instead of thousands of years ago- IT WOULD BE BANNED AND PLACED INTO THE SCHEDULE I NARCOTICS CATEGORY INSTANTLY- it is probably, next to Heroin, Opium, Morphine & its stronger derivatives, & LSD, the strongest drug out there.Cocaine, Amphetamines, & Marijuana (All Schedule II drugs) result in a much lower level of intoxication than alcohol. You can excel in your studies & work productivity by using Cocaine, Ritalin, or even better the Amphetamines (especially Dexedrine). Marijuana just makes you a worthless member of society who sits on the couch all day & turns you into a burn out, but doesn't increase people's tendency to be violent, it just increases their tendency to become a waste of space.
Posted by janejj on November 16, 2001, at 15:29:31
In reply to Alcohol still the best med for social phobia, posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 16, 2001, at 12:24:50
What about MDMA, you haven't mentioned that. >
I haven't drank in a long time but I am using anti-anxiety, anti-depression medications which have been very discouraging. I am a college student & would take 20 mg Ritalin (methylphenidate) twice per day on Monday through Thursday (as prescribed by GP), and then get drunk (binge drink) Thursday, Friday, & Saturday, & then recover from my hangover & take Ritalin to study on Sunday. On this regimen I managed to get about a 3.0 GPA every semester at a very academically demanding university- the University of Texas at Austin.
>
> I was sick of people telling me that I get drunk too much at every party so I started taking Zoloft to help decrease the need to drink. It turned out that Zoloft counteracted the Ritalin & then made me "dumb as a brick" & I barely passes through finals even though I previously had A's & B's in all my classes. The next semester I had to pursue a medical withdrawl through the college dean because of the debilitating effects of these anti-depressants. I would never recommend any anti-depressants to college students, especially those who drink once in awhile on the weekends, unless they go to a ridiculously easy college like Texas A & M University.
> I was referred to a psychiatrist at this point who took away the Ritalin because of my history of binge drinking. He then put me on Remeron (Mirtzapine) -no anti-depressant effect at 45 mg, and I did not drink alcohol anymore at this point, but the Remeron just made me so tired (slept 17 hours per night) I could not get out of bed to go to class in the morning), then Effexor XR (which I had to stop on my own accord because I had rapid heartbeat, palpitations, insomnia, & chest pain- I even had to fly home to my parents house because i thought I was going to have a heart attack (& i'm only 23!)
> Now I am taking Celexa which even thought I have just started on it at half the starting dose for a week (10 mg) it seems to not make me nervous or cause insomnia like all the SSRIs I have tried. I read that Celexa may be the best SSRI for anxious patients b.c it doesn't affect the adrenergic glands or dopamine like Zoloft does (slightly) & has no norepinephrine effect (norepinephine= nervousness) & also has a slight sedating effect.
>
> The Celexa is augmented by Klonopin(Clonazepam) for social anxiety/phobia 1 mg per day split into 2 doses but this doesn't seem to do a whole lot for me (cross tolerance from previous alcohol abuse?).
>
> If this Klonopin/Celexa combo doesn't work I am then rapidly running out of options (I also tried Paxil long ago- nausea & nervousness). Klonopin is supposed to be the best social phobia medicine- the only thing better is Nardil-the cheese effect MAO inhibitor drug (I could eliminate cheese/tyramine from my diet but how severe are the other side effects?) Or I could get the psychiatrist to increase the klonopin dose, but nowadays doctors seem to think benzodiazepines are the devil even though they are much safer than vodka! Plus Benzos, unlike alcohol, cause no long term damage to kidneys or other organs, hence there is no reason not to take them if needed, even for the rest of your life.
>
> The only reason i drank on the weekends was to release my inhibitions so i can socialize with girls/women. So I am trying to find a 'disinhibitor' that approximates the disinhibiting, relaxing, wonderful feeling you get after drinking three beers, but one that works 24 hours a day (like antidepressants do) instead of only a few hours.
>
> I've also learned that 1-2 beers clears you arteries and lessens you chance of a heart attack. Maybe i should have 1 beer at lunch & 1 beer at dinner & stop taking these worthless antidepressants.
>
> The only other meds I can think of that have these 3 beers properties are the following, although I have no experiences with them- perhaps one of you would be likely to elaborate on you own personal experiences.
>
> 1. Meprobamate (Miltown)
> 2. Phenobarbital
> 3. Nardil
> 4. Parnate
> 5. Chloral Hydrate (actually metabolizes to ethanol in the system, the only true alcohol in a pill- perhaps this is the answer to my social phobia?)
>
> 6.Neurontin- Someone said something about this once, what is this medication & what does it do?
>
>
> It is a shame that with a hundred years of pharmaceutical research, the medicines for social anxiety pale in comparison to the 3000 year old drug alcohol, & the one medicine that may have equaled alcohol in effaciousness for anxiety/disinhibition (GHB) was banned immediately. Could you imagine if alcohol had been invented a few years ago instead of thousands of years ago- IT WOULD BE BANNED AND PLACED INTO THE SCHEDULE I NARCOTICS CATEGORY INSTANTLY- it is probably, next to Heroin, Opium, Morphine & its stronger derivatives, & LSD, the strongest drug out there.
>
> Cocaine, Amphetamines, & Marijuana (All Schedule II drugs) result in a much lower level of intoxication than alcohol. You can excel in your studies & work productivity by using Cocaine, Ritalin, or even better the Amphetamines (especially Dexedrine). Marijuana just makes you a worthless member of society who sits on the couch all day & turns you into a burn out, but doesn't increase people's tendency to be violent, it just increases their tendency to become a waste of space.
Posted by ross on November 16, 2001, at 23:01:18
In reply to Re: Alcohol still the best med for social phobia, posted by janejj on November 16, 2001, at 15:29:31
celexa and klonopin combo worked alright for me. just not enough. neurontin has some effect because of the gaba properties.
as far as klonopin is concerned the latest story on that is 3mg to 6mg is the most effective dosing for social anxiety per journal of clinical psych....
celexa is a wonderful AD and a great anti-anxiety med but you need the dopamine for agressiveness and noradrenaline for social zest so its worthless to take it but try it for yourself..
good luck
ross
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 17, 2001, at 1:16:10
In reply to Re: Alcohol still the best med for social phobia, posted by janejj on November 16, 2001, at 15:29:31
> What about MDMA, you haven't mentioned that. >
>
MDMA damages your serotogenic receptors in your brain and only lasts for 90 minutes anyway. Not only that you get depressed for 3 days afterwards- sort of like a post E hangover. For a party, you would probably be better off taking a high dose of dexedrine (dextroamphetamine) with a high dose of effexor since effexor is a distant relative of MDMA anyways (phenylalanine family).
>
>
>
Posted by stjames on November 17, 2001, at 14:20:27
In reply to Alcohol still the best med for social phobia, posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 16, 2001, at 12:24:50
I've also learned that 1-2 beers clears you arteries and lessens you chance of a heart attack. Maybe i should have 1 beer at lunch & 1 beer at dinner & stop taking these worthless antidepressants.
James here.....
Too bad it is also a toxin that causes cancer, also !
james
Posted by akc on November 17, 2001, at 15:40:27
In reply to Alcohol still the best med for social phobia, posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 16, 2001, at 12:24:50
> I've also learned that 1-2 beers clears you arteries and lessens you chance of a heart attack.If I could only stop at 1 or 2. I too was a binge drinker -- and the older I got, the worse my drinking got. My alcoholism tells me often that I can start again -- be a "normal" person and drink that 1 or 2 that would be "healthy" for me. I've got to look that lie straight in the face for what it is.
akc
Posted by geno on November 17, 2001, at 19:58:11
In reply to Re: Alcohol still the best med for social phobia, posted by akc on November 17, 2001, at 15:40:27
>
> > I've also learned that 1-2 beers clears you arteries and lessens you chance of a heart attack.
>
> If I could only stop at 1 or 2. I too was a binge drinker -- and the older I got, the worse my drinking got. My alcoholism tells me often that I can start again -- be a "normal" person and drink that 1 or 2 that would be "healthy" for me. I've got to look that lie straight in the face for what it is.
>
> akcWell since reading this post for social phobia, is what i suffer from majorly, It seems that he posted one substance that is reletively the most social induced substance i ever found. GHB
FUCK the date rape bullshit- ghb doesnt rape you
OVer look the overdose- know your dose
NON toxic to body- 30 yrs study proven
YES can be addictve- BUT isnt alcohol, xanax, some ad's cocaine, heroin opiates, weed. NONE of these can compare to ghb when decreasing inhibitions, releaving acute anxiety, making one feel loveable, happy, horney, attractive, zest for life, although not a good pain killer.I dont use ghb, more so GBL, which is the chemical precusor to ghb. GBL can be more dose dependable, because ghb is can be made in all different strength. Pure 99,9% gbl, could me carefully measured in a eyes dropper, 1-2ml on an empty stomach is a good start.
Yet the rebound effect from continuous ghb/gbl use is nasty. But i through in some xanax to counteract this and helps much.
What im tryin to say is, Im not telling everyone to drop there meds and go by gbl or ghb illictly, but the overall point is GHB is one of the best sociabilizers out there. BEtter than alcohol or opiates or knonopin any day. I belive safter also. There is no such thing as GHB COMA, unless mxing with other drugs. ITS Called REM SLEEP, where one cannot be awakened. Most people get all scared when one cannot be awakened, yet there pulse breathing and oxygen rate are all normal. THough it may lower the amount of breaths taken but not the oxygen intake to the vital organs.
GHB works on the GABA B receptors, such as baclofen, but also suppresses dopamine neurons in the presnypatic cells, thus releaseing dopamine when ghb fads. Its also is shown to increase brain oxytocin, which promotes socialability
gman
ps. Does anyone know of a prescribed psyc med that is similar to this pharmocolgy?
geno
Posted by dreamer on November 17, 2001, at 21:47:13
In reply to Re: Alcohol still the best med for social phobia, posted by geno on November 17, 2001, at 19:58:11
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 18, 2001, at 2:53:06
In reply to Re: ghb- cud do with some of that (nm), posted by dreamer on November 17, 2001, at 21:47:13
so what's the point? Alcohol is almost is good as a disinhibitor/social lubricant & is totally legal!
Posted by stjames on November 18, 2001, at 21:16:44
In reply to Re: Alcohol still the best med for social phobia, posted by geno on November 17, 2001, at 19:58:11
> OVer look the overdose- know your dose
Anyone who makes this statement has never been there. Tolerance is a funny thing, ask a real addict and not a misinformed soul and you will see. Tolerance does build, but a real addict knows all too well tolerance is never static.
It comes and goes without reason. Why in all hell
do you think seasoned addicts OD ? It is not usually because they go extra strong drugs, it is for whatever reason, having gotten used to a high dose (they were stupid enough to think they "knew" their limit), the built up tolerance dropped and they OD, black out, or if they are lucky, pass out.In truth "Social phobia" seems a problem rooted in psychology and those seeking addictive drugs for it are doing just that, "drug seaking". I just do not see SP as a wholly organic in cause, unless it is secondary to a personality, thought or other diorder. Thearpy is the treatment, though meds may help. Demanding the treatment be numbing drugs seems like one is totally avoiding the psychological problem at hand. I feel one has gone far beyond "treatment" and right into "lets get high". Calling it "treatment" while giving directions to go to Mexico to get Mophine Sulphate seems way far away from thearpy.
james
Posted by sar on November 19, 2001, at 17:43:55
In reply to Re: Alcohol still the best med for social phobia, posted by stjames on November 18, 2001, at 21:16:44
> In truth "Social phobia" seems a problem rooted in psychology and those seeking addictive drugs for it are doing just that, "drug seaking". I just do not see SP as a wholly organic in cause, unless it is secondary to a personality, thought or other diorder. Thearpy is the treatment, though meds may help. Demanding the treatment be numbing drugs seems like one is totally avoiding the psychological problem at hand. I feel one has gone far beyond "treatment" and right into "lets get high". Calling it "treatment" while giving directions to go to Mexico to get Mophine Sulphate seems way far away from thearpy.
>
> jamesi spent 23 years with disturbing/crippling social anxiety...i started therapy at 16, but the sp did not assuage until i began meds at 23. what do you say to that?
Posted by stjames on November 19, 2001, at 19:54:16
In reply to Re: Alcohol still the best med for social phobia » stjames, posted by sar on November 19, 2001, at 17:43:55
>
> i spent 23 years with disturbing/crippling social anxiety...i started therapy at 16, but the sp did not assuage until i began meds at 23. what do you say to that?
Good for you !
Posted by Elizabeth on November 21, 2001, at 20:29:45
In reply to Alcohol still the best med for social phobia, posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 16, 2001, at 12:24:50
Nardil is probably the best antidepressant for social phobia. Klonopin and Xanax are also known to be effective (not necessarily more or less so); you may not be taking a high enough dose of Klonopin.
Neurontin is an anticonvulsant that some people find effective for social anxiety. Worth a try -- it felt like Xanax to me (but it gave me the munchies).
Alcohol is very bad for your health (particularly, for your liver); benzos are preferable and should work if you are on the right dose. There is some cross-tolerance.
Morphine is perfectly legal, and effective for social phobia, if you can get a doctor to prescribe it. Ultram might be easier to get.
-elizabeth
Posted by Elizabeth on November 21, 2001, at 20:40:24
In reply to Re: Alcohol still the best med for social phobia, posted by stjames on November 18, 2001, at 21:16:44
> > OVer look the overdose- know your dose
>
> Anyone who makes this statement has never been there. Tolerance is a funny thing, ask a real addict and not a misinformed soul and you will see. Tolerance does build, but a real addict knows all too well tolerance is never static.
> It comes and goes without reason.So, are you a "real addict?" If not, on what do you base your claims? Do you think that only "real addicts" have any "real" knowledge about addiction? Do you consider yourself an expert in addiction medicine?
> Why in all hell do you think seasoned addicts OD?
Street drugs are unreliable -- you don't know how much you're getting or even what might be in it. Addicts often have a self-destructive thrill-seaking streak and may push the limits of their tolerance.
There are plenty of reasons a "seasoned" addict could OD.> In truth "Social phobia" seems a problem rooted in psychology and those seeking addictive drugs for it are doing just that, "drug seaking".
That's a pretty judgmental label. You might try to be a little bit more considerate and civil in the future -- or at least providing some sort of evidence if you decide to start indulging in name-calling.
You don't have a monopoly on the "truth."
-elizabeth
Posted by nightlight on November 22, 2001, at 12:25:44
In reply to Alcohol still the best med for social phobia, posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 16, 2001, at 12:24:50
3-Beer~
You are young, inexperienced, and looking for the same answers most of us here on the board, & in life, generally seek.
How do I succeed in 'business' (or school) without really trying? (Or trying so hard that it eradicates the possibility of pursuing lust, laughter, love, primal validation?) How do I find the social ease with which to woo the opposite sex, feed my my emotional and sexual appetite without suffering personal (and, perhaps, public)humiliation? Both pursuits require dedication, hard work, vigilance, decisiveness & courage.
Choices must be made. Is making it with the chicks so important that you would sacrifice your GPA, (which wasn't bad), but, you could probably excell in school if you didn't burn your body out on the weekends.
> I haven't drank in a long time but I am using anti-anxiety, anti-depression medications which have been very discouraging. I am a college student & would take 20 mg Ritalin (methylphenidate) twice per day on Monday through Thursday (as prescribed by GP), and then get drunk (binge drink) Thursday, Friday, & Saturday, & then recover from my hangover & take Ritalin to study on Sunday. On this regimen I managed to get about a 3.0 GPA every semester at a very academically demanding university- the University of Texas at Austin.I made decent grades in school, at times. In elementary, I was considered gifted, made straight A's, skipped a grade. I was 'genetically' predisposed to absorbing information, my parents were smart, my IQ very high, and school was easy for a while.
But,then came puberty, high school, the need for self-imposed stucture, study skills and consistency. And, college, good God, all my 'fine capabilities' had, by then, vanished in the wind.I had felt 'out-of-control' since early teens. School was suddenly so hard, so demanding. Not natural, easy.
So, I looked to socializing for stimulation. And, I dated a lot. But, I was so uncomfortable, until I began to experiment w/alcohol and drugs. Then, I REALLY made progress. With a quaalude & a beer, I could conquer any guy. I spent 7 years on a hedonistic ride through the mid-70's. Did I have fun, take many stupid risks, worry my parents sick, flunk out of college and make poor decisions that would affect me for the rest of my life? Did I waste a lot of precious time because I didn't know I needed psychiatric help? A resounding yes to all of the above.> I was sick of people telling me that I get drunk too much at every party so I started taking Zoloft to help decrease the need to drink. It turned out that Zoloft counteracted the Ritalin & then made me "dumb as a brick" & I barely passes through finals even though I previously had A's & B's in all my classes. The next semester I had to pursue a medical withdrawl through the college dean because of the debilitating effects of these anti-depressants. I would never recommend any anti-depressants to college students, especially those who drink once in awhile on the weekends, unless they go to a ridiculously easy college like Texas A & M University.
If you were taking ritalin, is it because you had been diagnosed with ADHD? Had you gone thru any sort of therapy to help you with the challenges that go along with that diagnosis?
I have recently been diagnosed ADD (that's only part of the mix) and I know that the insecurity and anxiety I felt as an adolescent was what made me seek substances to mitigate my dis-ease with normal social intergration. I felt more normal when self-medicated, but I came to believe that I over-indulged because I was abnormal, spineless, lazy and, had somehow, become a dullard.
> I was referred to a psychiatrist at this point who took away the Ritalin because of my history of binge drinking. He then put me on Remeron (Mirtzapine) -no anti-depressant effect at 45 mg, and I did not drink alcohol anymore at this point, but the Remeron just made me so tired (slept 17 hours per night) I could not get out of bed to go to class in the morning), then Effexor XR (which I had to stop on my own accord because I had rapid heartbeat, palpitations, insomnia, & chest pain- I even had to fly home to my parents house because i thought I was going to have a heart attack (& i'm only 23!)At ur age, if I got 3 hrs. sleep a nite, I knew I could probably make it thru the next day, be it work (non-demanding) or school (absorbing nothing).Binge drinking or doping on the weekends and then trying to transition back into the 'real world' is an evasive, self-deluding road to nowhere. Time passes. The body becomes more vulnerable to chemical damage. You find yourself at 28 using the same old routine to simply 'slide by' & trying not attract to much attention for the un-skilled, un-happy, un-prepared individual that you have meandered into becoming.
> Now I am taking Celexa which even thought I have just started on it at half the starting dose for a week (10 mg) it seems to not make me nervous or cause insomnia like all the SSRIs I have tried. I read that Celexa may be the best SSRI for anxious patients b.c it doesn't affect the adrenergic glands or dopamine like Zoloft does (slightly) & has no norepinephrine effect (norepinephine= nervousness) & also has a slight sedating effect.
You are obviously suffering through the trauma of being properly diagnosed and finding a medication(s) that will give you a strong chemical foundation and help you accomplish your goals. Finding the right combo can be a heart-rending, mind-breaking bitch, but, God, if you can do that, you will have the such a gift! And, if you do have some disorder, straighten it out NOW.You will be one of the blessed few who 'get it' when they are still young.
> The Celexa is augmented by Klonopin(Clonazepam) for social anxiety/phobia 1 mg per day split into 2 doses but this doesn't seem to do a whole lot for me (cross tolerance from previous alcohol abuse?).
I don't think the previous alcohol abuse is the problem, but, I'm no professional. Klonopin is a good drug, evens you out, mitigates social panic, but, it's subtle.
> If this Klonopin/Celexa combo doesn't work I am then rapidly running out of options (I also tried Paxil long ago- nausea & nervousness). Klonopin is supposed to be the best social phobia medicine-It may not be a panacea, whatever drug combo you arrive at, and it may take a little time, but I think it is great you are searching for dependable pharmaceuticals that will be medically monitored.
the only thing better is Nardil-the cheese effect MAO inhibitor drug (I could eliminate cheese/tyramine from my diet but how severe are the other side effects?) Or I could get the psychiatrist to increase the klonopin dose, but nowadays doctors seem to think benzodiazepines are the devil even though they are much safer than vodka! Plus Benzos, unlike alcohol, cause no long term damage to kidneys or other organs, hence there is no reason not to take them if needed, even for the rest of your life.Yeah, but, if u ever want off of them (benzos), it can be THE biggest, longest bitch of a withdrawal you can imagine. But, it depends on your diagnosis, your needs, what is determined to be be your baseline 'functional' chemical coktail.
>> The only reason i drank on the weekends was to release my inhibitions so i can socialize with girls/women. So I am trying to find a 'disinhibitor' that approximates the disinhibiting, relaxing, wonderful feeling you get after drinking three beers, but one that works 24 hours a day (like antidepressants do) instead of only a few hours.
>
> I've also learned that 1-2 beers clears you arteries and lessens you chance of a heart attack. Maybe i should have 1 beer at lunch & 1 beer at dinner & stop taking these worthless antidepressants.
>
> The only other meds I can think of that have these 3 beers properties are the following, although I have no experiences with them- perhaps one of you would be likely to elaborate on you own personal experiences.
>
> 1. Meprobamate (Miltown)
> 2. Phenobarbital
> 3. Nardil
> 4. Parnate
> 5. Chloral Hydrate (actually metabolizes to ethanol in the system, the only true alcohol in a pill- perhaps this is the answer to my social phobia?)
>
> 6.Neurontin- Someone said something about this once, what is this medication & what does it do?
>
>
> It is a shame that with a hundred years of pharmaceutical research, the medicines for social anxiety pale in comparison to the 3000 year old drug alcohol, & the one medicine that may have equaled alcohol in effaciousness for anxiety/disinhibition (GHB) was banned immediately. Could you imagine if alcohol had been invented a few years ago instead of thousands of years ago- IT WOULD BE BANNED AND PLACED INTO THE SCHEDULE I NARCOTICS CATEGORY INSTANTLY- it is probably, next to Heroin, Opium, Morphine & its stronger derivatives, & LSD, the strongest drug out there.
>
> Cocaine, Amphetamines, & Marijuana (All Schedule II drugs) result in a much lower level of intoxication than alcohol. You can excel in your studies & work productivity by using Cocaine, Ritalin, or even better the Amphetamines (especially Dexedrine). Marijuana just makes you a worthless member of society who sits on the couch all day & turns you into a burn out, but doesn't increase people's tendency to be violent, it just increases their tendency to become a waste of space.
If you are looking for chemical social enhancer, there are plenty of them, all with their inherent risks.
But, in the long run, life experience, confidence from personal accomplishment (however large/small), and the right and proper meds, are what give us
the edge in being more at ease with ourselves, and then others. It's not a quick trick.The answers to our desires are not thrown into our laps. We have to seek, struggle, make mistakes. If you could nurse a coupla drinks through an evening and get by w/that, it wd. be no big deal. But, binge drinking is a whole different story (I've done it) and it can trigger deadly depressions in it's aftermath.
Keep looking, I do hope the Celexa kicks in, like a continuous dose of dutch courage, and then your obsession for the perfect 'social cocktail' can be set aside, while you concentrate on what you want out of this life.
Please excuse the lecture 3-B, but, I relate and I wish you well.
Do not seek the path of least resistance. It doesn't lead to anyplace interesting.nightlight
Posted by geno on November 23, 2001, at 20:18:12
In reply to Re: Alcohol still the best med for social phobia » 3 Beer Effect, posted by nightlight on November 22, 2001, at 12:25:44
> 3-Beer~
>
> You are young, inexperienced, and looking for the same answers most of us here on the board, & in life, generally seek.
> How do I succeed in 'business' (or school) without really trying? (Or trying so hard that it eradicates the possibility of pursuing lust, laughter, love, primal validation?) How do I find the social ease with which to woo the opposite sex, feed my my emotional and sexual appetite without suffering personal (and, perhaps, public)humiliation? Both pursuits require dedication, hard work, vigilance, decisiveness & courage.
> Choices must be made. Is making it with the chicks so important that you would sacrifice your GPA, (which wasn't bad), but, you could probably excell in school if you didn't burn your body out on the weekends.
>
>
> > I haven't drank in a long time but I am using anti-anxiety, anti-depression medications which have been very discouraging. I am a college student & would take 20 mg Ritalin (methylphenidate) twice per day on Monday through Thursday (as prescribed by GP), and then get drunk (binge drink) Thursday, Friday, & Saturday, & then recover from my hangover & take Ritalin to study on Sunday. On this regimen I managed to get about a 3.0 GPA every semester at a very academically demanding university- the University of Texas at Austin.
>
> I made decent grades in school, at times. In elementary, I was considered gifted, made straight A's, skipped a grade. I was 'genetically' predisposed to absorbing information, my parents were smart, my IQ very high, and school was easy for a while.
> But,then came puberty, high school, the need for self-imposed stucture, study skills and consistency. And, college, good God, all my 'fine capabilities' had, by then, vanished in the wind.I had felt 'out-of-control' since early teens. School was suddenly so hard, so demanding. Not natural, easy.
> So, I looked to socializing for stimulation. And, I dated a lot. But, I was so uncomfortable, until I began to experiment w/alcohol and drugs. Then, I REALLY made progress. With a quaalude & a beer, I could conquer any guy. I spent 7 years on a hedonistic ride through the mid-70's. Did I have fun, take many stupid risks, worry my parents sick, flunk out of college and make poor decisions that would affect me for the rest of my life? Did I waste a lot of precious time because I didn't know I needed psychiatric help? A resounding yes to all of the above.
>
> > I was sick of people telling me that I get drunk too much at every party so I started taking Zoloft to help decrease the need to drink. It turned out that Zoloft counteracted the Ritalin & then made me "dumb as a brick" & I barely passes through finals even though I previously had A's & B's in all my classes. The next semester I had to pursue a medical withdrawl through the college dean because of the debilitating effects of these anti-depressants. I would never recommend any anti-depressants to college students, especially those who drink once in awhile on the weekends, unless they go to a ridiculously easy college like Texas A & M University.
>
> If you were taking ritalin, is it because you had been diagnosed with ADHD? Had you gone thru any sort of therapy to help you with the challenges that go along with that diagnosis?
> I have recently been diagnosed ADD (that's only part of the mix) and I know that the insecurity and anxiety I felt as an adolescent was what made me seek substances to mitigate my dis-ease with normal social intergration. I felt more normal when self-medicated, but I came to believe that I over-indulged because I was abnormal, spineless, lazy and, had somehow, become a dullard.
>
>
> > I was referred to a psychiatrist at this point who took away the Ritalin because of my history of binge drinking. He then put me on Remeron (Mirtzapine) -no anti-depressant effect at 45 mg, and I did not drink alcohol anymore at this point, but the Remeron just made me so tired (slept 17 hours per night) I could not get out of bed to go to class in the morning), then Effexor XR (which I had to stop on my own accord because I had rapid heartbeat, palpitations, insomnia, & chest pain- I even had to fly home to my parents house because i thought I was going to have a heart attack (& i'm only 23!)
>
> At ur age, if I got 3 hrs. sleep a nite, I knew I could probably make it thru the next day, be it work (non-demanding) or school (absorbing nothing).Binge drinking or doping on the weekends and then trying to transition back into the 'real world' is an evasive, self-deluding road to nowhere. Time passes. The body becomes more vulnerable to chemical damage. You find yourself at 28 using the same old routine to simply 'slide by' & trying not attract to much attention for the un-skilled, un-happy, un-prepared individual that you have meandered into becoming.
>
> > Now I am taking Celexa which even thought I have just started on it at half the starting dose for a week (10 mg) it seems to not make me nervous or cause insomnia like all the SSRIs I have tried. I read that Celexa may be the best SSRI for anxious patients b.c it doesn't affect the adrenergic glands or dopamine like Zoloft does (slightly) & has no norepinephrine effect (norepinephine= nervousness) & also has a slight sedating effect.
>
> You are obviously suffering through the trauma of being properly diagnosed and finding a medication(s) that will give you a strong chemical foundation and help you accomplish your goals. Finding the right combo can be a heart-rending, mind-breaking bitch, but, God, if you can do that, you will have the such a gift! And, if you do have some disorder, straighten it out NOW.You will be one of the blessed few who 'get it' when they are still young.
>
> > The Celexa is augmented by Klonopin(Clonazepam) for social anxiety/phobia 1 mg per day split into 2 doses but this doesn't seem to do a whole lot for me (cross tolerance from previous alcohol abuse?).
>
> I don't think the previous alcohol abuse is the problem, but, I'm no professional. Klonopin is a good drug, evens you out, mitigates social panic, but, it's subtle.
>
> > If this Klonopin/Celexa combo doesn't work I am then rapidly running out of options (I also tried Paxil long ago- nausea & nervousness). Klonopin is supposed to be the best social phobia medicine-
>
> It may not be a panacea, whatever drug combo you arrive at, and it may take a little time, but I think it is great you are searching for dependable pharmaceuticals that will be medically monitored.
>
>
> the only thing better is Nardil-the cheese effect MAO inhibitor drug (I could eliminate cheese/tyramine from my diet but how severe are the other side effects?) Or I could get the psychiatrist to increase the klonopin dose, but nowadays doctors seem to think benzodiazepines are the devil even though they are much safer than vodka! Plus Benzos, unlike alcohol, cause no long term damage to kidneys or other organs, hence there is no reason not to take them if needed, even for the rest of your life.
>
> Yeah, but, if u ever want off of them (benzos), it can be THE biggest, longest bitch of a withdrawal you can imagine. But, it depends on your diagnosis, your needs, what is determined to be be your baseline 'functional' chemical coktail.
> >
>
> > The only reason i drank on the weekends was to release my inhibitions so i can socialize with girls/women. So I am trying to find a 'disinhibitor' that approximates the disinhibiting, relaxing, wonderful feeling you get after drinking three beers, but one that works 24 hours a day (like antidepressants do) instead of only a few hours.
> >
> > I've also learned that 1-2 beers clears you arteries and lessens you chance of a heart attack. Maybe i should have 1 beer at lunch & 1 beer at dinner & stop taking these worthless antidepressants.
> >
> > The only other meds I can think of that have these 3 beers properties are the following, although I have no experiences with them- perhaps one of you would be likely to elaborate on you own personal experiences.
> >
> > 1. Meprobamate (Miltown)
> > 2. Phenobarbital
> > 3. Nardil
> > 4. Parnate
> > 5. Chloral Hydrate (actually metabolizes to ethanol in the system, the only true alcohol in a pill- perhaps this is the answer to my social phobia?)
> >
> > 6.Neurontin- Someone said something about this once, what is this medication & what does it do?
> >
> >
> > It is a shame that with a hundred years of pharmaceutical research, the medicines for social anxiety pale in comparison to the 3000 year old drug alcohol, & the one medicine that may have equaled alcohol in effaciousness for anxiety/disinhibition (GHB) was banned immediately. Could you imagine if alcohol had been invented a few years ago instead of thousands of years ago- IT WOULD BE BANNED AND PLACED INTO THE SCHEDULE I NARCOTICS CATEGORY INSTANTLY- it is probably, next to Heroin, Opium, Morphine & its stronger derivatives, & LSD, the strongest drug out there.
> >
> > Cocaine, Amphetamines, & Marijuana (All Schedule II drugs) result in a much lower level of intoxication than alcohol. You can excel in your studies & work productivity by using Cocaine, Ritalin, or even better the Amphetamines (especially Dexedrine). Marijuana just makes you a worthless member of society who sits on the couch all day & turns you into a burn out, but doesn't increase people's tendency to be violent, it just increases their tendency to become a waste of space.
>
>
> If you are looking for chemical social enhancer, there are plenty of them, all with their inherent risks.
> But, in the long run, life experience, confidence from personal accomplishment (however large/small), and the right and proper meds, are what give us
> the edge in being more at ease with ourselves, and then others. It's not a quick trick.
>
> The answers to our desires are not thrown into our laps. We have to seek, struggle, make mistakes. If you could nurse a coupla drinks through an evening and get by w/that, it wd. be no big deal. But, binge drinking is a whole different story (I've done it) and it can trigger deadly depressions in it's aftermath.
>
> Keep looking, I do hope the Celexa kicks in, like a continuous dose of dutch courage, and then your obsession for the perfect 'social cocktail' can be set aside, while you concentrate on what you want out of this life.
>
> Please excuse the lecture 3-B, but, I relate and I wish you well.
> Do not seek the path of least resistance. It doesn't lead to anyplace interesting.
>
> nightlight
To 3 beers,Ya i totallly agreee with you. YOur 3 beers are like my 2caps of ghb. NOTHING< no med can compare to the anti anxiety, socialability, antideprssive effects with in 20 minutes NOTHING.
geno
Posted by Cindylou on November 24, 2001, at 15:44:32
In reply to Alcohol still the best med for social phobia, posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 16, 2001, at 12:24:50
I haven't drank for 10 years. And I miss it. You are right -- For SOME, alcohol is the best medicine of all. Unfortunately, for those of us who feel that way, it is toxic.
Over the years I have come to believe that anyone who feels alcohol is the best medicine is an alcoholic; we share the same chemical make-up that makes us LOVE that drug. And NEED it to get through social situations -- first dates, parties, etc.Ironic ... that the best drug for us is the one we must stay away from or it will bury us.
> I haven't drank in a long time but I am using anti-anxiety, anti-depression medications which have been very discouraging. I am a college student & would take 20 mg Ritalin (methylphenidate) twice per day on Monday through Thursday (as prescribed by GP), and then get drunk (binge drink) Thursday, Friday, & Saturday, & then recover from my hangover & take Ritalin to study on Sunday. On this regimen I managed to get about a 3.0 GPA every semester at a very academically demanding university- the University of Texas at Austin.
>
> I was sick of people telling me that I get drunk too much at every party so I started taking Zoloft to help decrease the need to drink. It turned out that Zoloft counteracted the Ritalin & then made me "dumb as a brick" & I barely passes through finals even though I previously had A's & B's in all my classes. The next semester I had to pursue a medical withdrawl through the college dean because of the debilitating effects of these anti-depressants. I would never recommend any anti-depressants to college students, especially those who drink once in awhile on the weekends, unless they go to a ridiculously easy college like Texas A & M University.
> I was referred to a psychiatrist at this point who took away the Ritalin because of my history of binge drinking. He then put me on Remeron (Mirtzapine) -no anti-depressant effect at 45 mg, and I did not drink alcohol anymore at this point, but the Remeron just made me so tired (slept 17 hours per night) I could not get out of bed to go to class in the morning), then Effexor XR (which I had to stop on my own accord because I had rapid heartbeat, palpitations, insomnia, & chest pain- I even had to fly home to my parents house because i thought I was going to have a heart attack (& i'm only 23!)
> Now I am taking Celexa which even thought I have just started on it at half the starting dose for a week (10 mg) it seems to not make me nervous or cause insomnia like all the SSRIs I have tried. I read that Celexa may be the best SSRI for anxious patients b.c it doesn't affect the adrenergic glands or dopamine like Zoloft does (slightly) & has no norepinephrine effect (norepinephine= nervousness) & also has a slight sedating effect.
>
> The Celexa is augmented by Klonopin(Clonazepam) for social anxiety/phobia 1 mg per day split into 2 doses but this doesn't seem to do a whole lot for me (cross tolerance from previous alcohol abuse?).
>
> If this Klonopin/Celexa combo doesn't work I am then rapidly running out of options (I also tried Paxil long ago- nausea & nervousness). Klonopin is supposed to be the best social phobia medicine- the only thing better is Nardil-the cheese effect MAO inhibitor drug (I could eliminate cheese/tyramine from my diet but how severe are the other side effects?) Or I could get the psychiatrist to increase the klonopin dose, but nowadays doctors seem to think benzodiazepines are the devil even though they are much safer than vodka! Plus Benzos, unlike alcohol, cause no long term damage to kidneys or other organs, hence there is no reason not to take them if needed, even for the rest of your life.
>
> The only reason i drank on the weekends was to release my inhibitions so i can socialize with girls/women. So I am trying to find a 'disinhibitor' that approximates the disinhibiting, relaxing, wonderful feeling you get after drinking three beers, but one that works 24 hours a day (like antidepressants do) instead of only a few hours.
>
> I've also learned that 1-2 beers clears you arteries and lessens you chance of a heart attack. Maybe i should have 1 beer at lunch & 1 beer at dinner & stop taking these worthless antidepressants.
>
> The only other meds I can think of that have these 3 beers properties are the following, although I have no experiences with them- perhaps one of you would be likely to elaborate on you own personal experiences.
>
> 1. Meprobamate (Miltown)
> 2. Phenobarbital
> 3. Nardil
> 4. Parnate
> 5. Chloral Hydrate (actually metabolizes to ethanol in the system, the only true alcohol in a pill- perhaps this is the answer to my social phobia?)
>
> 6.Neurontin- Someone said something about this once, what is this medication & what does it do?
>
>
> It is a shame that with a hundred years of pharmaceutical research, the medicines for social anxiety pale in comparison to the 3000 year old drug alcohol, & the one medicine that may have equaled alcohol in effaciousness for anxiety/disinhibition (GHB) was banned immediately. Could you imagine if alcohol had been invented a few years ago instead of thousands of years ago- IT WOULD BE BANNED AND PLACED INTO THE SCHEDULE I NARCOTICS CATEGORY INSTANTLY- it is probably, next to Heroin, Opium, Morphine & its stronger derivatives, & LSD, the strongest drug out there.
>
> Cocaine, Amphetamines, & Marijuana (All Schedule II drugs) result in a much lower level of intoxication than alcohol. You can excel in your studies & work productivity by using Cocaine, Ritalin, or even better the Amphetamines (especially Dexedrine). Marijuana just makes you a worthless member of society who sits on the couch all day & turns you into a burn out, but doesn't increase people's tendency to be violent, it just increases their tendency to become a waste of space.
Posted by geno on November 25, 2001, at 18:02:13
In reply to Re: Alcohol still the best med for social phobia » stjames, posted by sar on November 19, 2001, at 17:43:55
>
> > In truth "Social phobia" seems a problem rooted in psychology and those seeking addictive drugs for it are doing just that, "drug seaking". I just do not see SP as a wholly organic in cause, unless it is secondary to a personality, thought or other diorder. Thearpy is the treatment, though meds may help. Demanding the treatment be numbing drugs seems like one is totally avoiding the psychological problem at hand. I feel one has gone far beyond "treatment" and right into "lets get high". Calling it "treatment" while giving directions to go to Mexico to get Mophine Sulphate seems way far away from thearpy.
> >
> > james
>
> i spent 23 years with disturbing/crippling social anxiety...i started therapy at 16, but the sp did not assuage until i began meds at 23. what do you say to that?I releazed such. ANYTHING that makes you social, i guess tends to make one dishinibitioned or whatever, and alleviates depression, anxiety, and make one a bit confident, outgoing, thus does this make such addictive, or mood altered. My rehab councilor told me ANYTHING< no matter what it is, that alters ones mindset, is a drug and addictive. GIVE ME A BREAK.
Id much rather live life happy than always nasty, antisocial, lazy, loss of self worth,ect.
Boy i bet next they will ban kava kava, because that could alter your well being.
it pisses me off that there are so many more dangerous pyc meds, than alcohol, ghb, even benzos, as long as one doesnt combine the above.
But i guess, because they all make one happy, relaxed less depressed, socialable, some how somewhere, there gonna be fucked with by out government! get my driftgeno
Posted by JohnQ on November 29, 2001, at 19:37:30
In reply to Alcohol still the best med for social phobia, posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 16, 2001, at 12:24:50
> I haven't drank in a long time but I am using anti-anxiety, anti-depression medications which have been very discouraging. I am a college student & would take 20 mg Ritalin (methylphenidate) twice per day on Monday through Thursday (as prescribed by GP), and then get drunk (binge drink) Thursday, Friday, & Saturday, & then recover from my hangover & take Ritalin to study on Sunday. On this regimen I managed to get about a 3.0 GPA every semester at a very academically demanding university- the University of Texas at Austin.
>
> I was sick of people telling me that I get drunk too much at every party so I started taking Zoloft to help decrease the need to drink. It turned out that Zoloft counteracted the Ritalin & then made me "dumb as a brick" & I barely passes through finals even though I previously had A's & B's in all my classes. The next semester I had to pursue a medical withdrawl through the college dean because of the debilitating effects of these anti-depressants. I would never recommend any anti-depressants to college students, especially those who drink once in awhile on the weekends, unless they go to a ridiculously easy college like Texas A & M University.
> I was referred to a psychiatrist at this point who took away the Ritalin because of my history of binge drinking. He then put me on Remeron (Mirtzapine) -no anti-depressant effect at 45 mg, and I did not drink alcohol anymore at this point, but the Remeron just made me so tired (slept 17 hours per night) I could not get out of bed to go to class in the morning), then Effexor XR (which I had to stop on my own accord because I had rapid heartbeat, palpitations, insomnia, & chest pain- I even had to fly home to my parents house because i thought I was going to have a heart attack (& i'm only 23!)
> Now I am taking Celexa which even thought I have just started on it at half the starting dose for a week (10 mg) it seems to not make me nervous or cause insomnia like all the SSRIs I have tried. I read that Celexa may be the best SSRI for anxious patients b.c it doesn't affect the adrenergic glands or dopamine like Zoloft does (slightly) & has no norepinephrine effect (norepinephine= nervousness) & also has a slight sedating effect.
>
> The Celexa is augmented by Klonopin(Clonazepam) for social anxiety/phobia 1 mg per day split into 2 doses but this doesn't seem to do a whole lot for me (cross tolerance from previous alcohol abuse?).
>
> If this Klonopin/Celexa combo doesn't work I am then rapidly running out of options (I also tried Paxil long ago- nausea & nervousness). Klonopin is supposed to be the best social phobia medicine- the only thing better is Nardil-the cheese effect MAO inhibitor drug (I could eliminate cheese/tyramine from my diet but how severe are the other side effects?) Or I could get the psychiatrist to increase the klonopin dose, but nowadays doctors seem to think benzodiazepines are the devil even though they are much safer than vodka! Plus Benzos, unlike alcohol, cause no long term damage to kidneys or other organs, hence there is no reason not to take them if needed, even for the rest of your life.
>
> The only reason i drank on the weekends was to release my inhibitions so i can socialize with girls/women. So I am trying to find a 'disinhibitor' that approximates the disinhibiting, relaxing, wonderful feeling you get after drinking three beers, but one that works 24 hours a day (like antidepressants do) instead of only a few hours.
>
> I've also learned that 1-2 beers clears you arteries and lessens you chance of a heart attack. Maybe i should have 1 beer at lunch & 1 beer at dinner & stop taking these worthless antidepressants.
>
> The only other meds I can think of that have these 3 beers properties are the following, although I have no experiences with them- perhaps one of you would be likely to elaborate on you own personal experiences.
>
> 1. Meprobamate (Miltown)
> 2. Phenobarbital
> 3. Nardil
> 4. Parnate
> 5. Chloral Hydrate (actually metabolizes to ethanol in the system, the only true alcohol in a pill- perhaps this is the answer to my social phobia?)
>
> 6.Neurontin- Someone said something about this once, what is this medication & what does it do?
>
>
> It is a shame that with a hundred years of pharmaceutical research, the medicines for social anxiety pale in comparison to the 3000 year old drug alcohol, & the one medicine that may have equaled alcohol in effaciousness for anxiety/disinhibition (GHB) was banned immediately. Could you imagine if alcohol had been invented a few years ago instead of thousands of years ago- IT WOULD BE BANNED AND PLACED INTO THE SCHEDULE I NARCOTICS CATEGORY INSTANTLY- it is probably, next to Heroin, Opium, Morphine & its stronger derivatives, & LSD, the strongest drug out there.
>
> Cocaine, Amphetamines, & Marijuana (All Schedule II drugs) result in a much lower level of intoxication than alcohol. You can excel in your studies & work productivity by using Cocaine, Ritalin, or even better the Amphetamines (especially Dexedrine). Marijuana just makes you a worthless member of society who sits on the couch all day & turns you into a burn out, but doesn't increase people's tendency to be violent, it just increases their tendency to become a waste of space.GHB is far superior to alcohol in reducing SP. Alcohol helps a little, but GHB makes me feel like one of the most confidant people on the planet. If you haven't tried it, give it a shot (use only occasionally).
This is the end of the thread.
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