![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Chloe on November 12, 2001, at 18:50:51
I have had good result on 600-900 mgs lithobid to augment my AD. Then after about 6 weeks, I began to have very dry hair. Then that turned into the most painful and intensely sore scalp. My hair and scalp hurt so much, I can hardly lie on my pillow. I am really in alot of pain. Does anyone know what this is? I can't brush my hair, and it hurts when the wind blows through it. What is going on?
Also, my pdoc thought perhaps the preparation might be causing my hair pain, and told me to switch to Eskalith Controlled Release. I am supposed to take 675 mgs. But my scalp hurts so much, I have only been taking 450mgs. And my scalp is no better and I am an emotional rollercoaster and miserablely depressed. BUT, my question is, is there a big difference between preparations? I feel more shaky on 450 mgs of eskalith CR than I did on 600 OR 900 of lithobid. Do I just need to adjust to the new version? Or is there some chemical difference?
Anyone have any experience with this?Any replies deeply appreciated.
Chloe
Posted by janejj on November 12, 2001, at 19:04:12
In reply to Need help-Lithium troubles, posted by Chloe on November 12, 2001, at 18:50:51
Perhaps it is some kind of allergic reaction !
Good Luck, Jane
I have had good result on 600-900 mgs lithobid to augment my AD. Then after about 6 weeks, I began to have very dry hair. Then that turned into the most painful and intensely sore scalp. My hair and scalp hurt so much, I can hardly lie on my pillow. I am really in alot of pain. Does anyone know what this is? I can't brush my hair, and it hurts when the wind blows through it. What is going on?
>
> Also, my pdoc thought perhaps the preparation might be causing my hair pain, and told me to switch to Eskalith Controlled Release. I am supposed to take 675 mgs. But my scalp hurts so much, I have only been taking 450mgs. And my scalp is no better and I am an emotional rollercoaster and miserablely depressed. BUT, my question is, is there a big difference between preparations? I feel more shaky on 450 mgs of eskalith CR than I did on 600 OR 900 of lithobid. Do I just need to adjust to the new version? Or is there some chemical difference?
> Anyone have any experience with this?
>
> Any replies deeply appreciated.
> Chloe
Posted by susan C on November 12, 2001, at 19:32:15
In reply to Need help-Lithium troubles, posted by Chloe on November 12, 2001, at 18:50:51
Hi chloe,
I am so sorry to hear of your serious discomfort, do you have, or does your pdoc work with a dermatologist who is very familiar with psych meds reactions?
Just a thought
mouse with dry itchy skin
susanC> I have had good result on 600-900 mgs lithobid to augment my AD. Then after about 6 weeks, I began to have very dry hair. Then that turned into the most painful and intensely sore scalp. My hair and scalp hurt so much, I can hardly lie on my pillow. I am really in alot of pain. Does anyone know what this is? I can't brush my hair, and it hurts when the wind blows through it. What is going on?
>
> Also, my pdoc thought perhaps the preparation might be causing my hair pain, and told me to switch to Eskalith Controlled Release. I am supposed to take 675 mgs. But my scalp hurts so much, I have only been taking 450mgs. And my scalp is no better and I am an emotional rollercoaster and miserablely depressed. BUT, my question is, is there a big difference between preparations? I feel more shaky on 450 mgs of eskalith CR than I did on 600 OR 900 of lithobid. Do I just need to adjust to the new version? Or is there some chemical difference?
> Anyone have any experience with this?
>
> Any replies deeply appreciated.
> Chloe
Posted by Mitch on November 12, 2001, at 23:08:24
In reply to Need help-Lithium troubles, posted by Chloe on November 12, 2001, at 18:50:51
> I have had good result on 600-900 mgs lithobid to augment my AD. Then after about 6 weeks, I began to have very dry hair. Then that turned into the most painful and intensely sore scalp. My hair and scalp hurt so much, I can hardly lie on my pillow. I am really in alot of pain. Does anyone know what this is? I can't brush my hair, and it hurts when the wind blows through it. What is going on?
>
> Also, my pdoc thought perhaps the preparation might be causing my hair pain, and told me to switch to Eskalith Controlled Release. I am supposed to take 675 mgs. But my scalp hurts so much, I have only been taking 450mgs. And my scalp is no better and I am an emotional rollercoaster and miserablely depressed. BUT, my question is, is there a big difference between preparations? I feel more shaky on 450 mgs of eskalith CR than I did on 600 OR 900 of lithobid. Do I just need to adjust to the new version? Or is there some chemical difference?
> Anyone have any experience with this?
>
> Any replies deeply appreciated.
> ChloeChloe,
Hello, haven't talked to you in a while. I think you need to see a dermatologist-no make that an *immunologist*-you need comprehensive skin tests girl! I really doubt if this is med related. I have stopped certain meds before (Prozac) because of alergy sfx, only to find out later it was dustmites or certain molds, etc. that were responsible! This appears to be a common theme and I think what is going on hasn't been discovered yet. It would be a drag to trash meds that are helping, if something totally unexpected/unrelated is the true cause.
Mitch
Posted by Chloe on November 13, 2001, at 18:26:19
In reply to Re: Need help-Lithium troubles » Chloe, posted by Mitch on November 12, 2001, at 23:08:24
Hi
Mitch,
Hey, it has been a while. I guess I have just been lurking, I am not really feeling that well. These side effects are really awful. It seems every mood stabilizer takes it's toll on me, and it's usually my skin. I had a horrible time this summer with Trileptal. I was so photosenitive, and got actinic rashes after 5 minutes in the sun, and the hair pain on that was terrible too! Topomax caused severe bleeding ezcema on my hands and sore scalp and I got dry skin on lamictal. I have chronic dry skin and hair from Neurontin. So neurontin + Li is making me a total wreck. My scalp is literally on fire. it's amazing that I have a hair left on my head!So I think it boils down to me having really sensitive skin, and somehow my hair is very upset by all these meds and med changes. I can last a few months on a med, than i have to stop it due to side effects. I am really tired of all the changes followed by disappointments. I really like Li, but now I am not so sure what to do because of my hair pain. Though I think I am pretty much out of choices!
I have been trying to get off the neurontin, so I just have one drying agent, but I just feel so agitated when I decrease below 300mgs.
My pdoc got a refering derm to prescribe Dermasmoothe fs which is fluocinolone Acetonide 0.01 percent. I am suppposed to put the oil on my head at night and sleep with the oil in my hair. It's for psoraisis. And I know I don't have that. I just have an intensely sore scalp. But perhaps the cortisone solution will calm my follicles down. One can only hope.In terms of the Li preparations, I think there must be a difference. The one I was switched to, the Eskalith CR is causing me to sweat/heat intolerance and I have awful nausea. Is this possible? I had none of that on the lithobid. Any thoughts?
Well, thanks for listening to my ramble. So nice to get a post from you. It's getting pretty close to your next "phase". Did you get a script for Wellbutrin yet? Or do you have something else planned?
Thanks,
Chloe
Posted by Chloe on November 13, 2001, at 18:30:39
In reply to Re: Need help-Lithium troubles » Chloe, posted by susan C on November 12, 2001, at 19:32:15
Mouse,
I have been gripping about my hair pain for a while to my pdoc. So she finally consulted a derm in her hospital. It was going to be over a month before I could get appointment around here...I just can't wait! Mouse, do you really have dry skin? Is it from a med, if so could you tell me which one? BTW, I enjoyed your Gabitril journal.Thanks for writing
Chloe
Posted by Mitch on November 14, 2001, at 0:07:32
In reply to Re: Need help-Lithium troubles » Mitch, posted by Chloe on November 13, 2001, at 18:26:19
> Hi
>
>
>
> Mitch,
> Hey, it has been a while. I guess I have just been lurking, I am not really feeling that well. These side effects are really awful. It seems every mood stabilizer takes it's toll on me, and it's usually my skin. I had a horrible time this summer with Trileptal. I was so photosenitive, and got actinic rashes after 5 minutes in the sun, and the hair pain on that was terrible too! Topomax caused severe bleeding ezcema on my hands and sore scalp and I got dry skin on lamictal. I have chronic dry skin and hair from Neurontin. So neurontin + Li is making me a total wreck. My scalp is literally on fire. it's amazing that I have a hair left on my head!
>
> So I think it boils down to me having really sensitive skin, and somehow my hair is very upset by all these meds and med changes. I can last a few months on a med, than i have to stop it due to side effects. I am really tired of all the changes followed by disappointments. I really like Li, but now I am not so sure what to do because of my hair pain. Though I think I am pretty much out of choices!
>
> I have been trying to get off the neurontin, so I just have one drying agent, but I just feel so agitated when I decrease below 300mgs.
> My pdoc got a refering derm to prescribe Dermasmoothe fs which is fluocinolone Acetonide 0.01 percent. I am suppposed to put the oil on my head at night and sleep with the oil in my hair. It's for psoraisis. And I know I don't have that. I just have an intensely sore scalp. But perhaps the cortisone solution will calm my follicles down. One can only hope.
>
> In terms of the Li preparations, I think there must be a difference. The one I was switched to, the Eskalith CR is causing me to sweat/heat intolerance and I have awful nausea. Is this possible? I had none of that on the lithobid. Any thoughts?
>
> Well, thanks for listening to my ramble. So nice to get a post from you. It's getting pretty close to your next "phase". Did you get a script for Wellbutrin yet? Or do you have something else planned?
>
> Thanks,
> Chloe
Hi Chloe,I think you ought to use that oil stuff the dermatologist recommended and see what happens. I doubt if it could hurt!
The difference between the two lithium preparations sounds really bizarro! It *could* be a dye that is in one and not the other that you might be allergic to (might be worth checking out).
You know I just thought about this-but the Eskalith CR are the 450mg tabs right? Well, I used to be on Lithobid back in the early 80's (up to 1800mg/day-six tabs a day) and I had a *little* diarrhea, but I was on the Eskalith 450mg tabs in the early 90's and I had a *lot* of gastrointestinal problems with it. Also-I think the Lithobid tabs actually contain some sodium to help offset some of the unhealthy ion "competition" of Lithium while it is absorbed (just stretching deep into long-term memory space here!).
Hey, I would just ask your pdoc to switch you back to Lithobid (IMO).Do you really think the Neurontin is hurting your skin? No doubt about it-it seems to *increase* oil and collagen in my skin.
As far as my next phase goes-it hasn't happened just yet. It has been unusually sunny here in the midwest-maybe that's it. I can start getting *fatigued* as early as the first week of November, but usually I don't really notice it until just after Thanksgiving. I am no doubt about it DEPRESSED by the first week of December. The 2nd and 3rd week it deepens rapidly until I am sleeping about 12 hrs a day and am completely unfocused, inattentive, and lethargic. FOOD-gobble gobble yum yum. CLOTHES-let's see if I can get into those jeans. WORK-don't care if I have a job, what's the point? I must say that when I was on Adderall during this time it was the most miraculously positive response I have ever had for seasonal depression (5mg/day). Wellbutrin worked for summertime seasonal depressive episode. I am going to plug for the WB for this one (winter).
Mitch
Posted by Chloe on November 14, 2001, at 6:08:08
In reply to Re: Need help-Lithium troubles » Chloe, posted by Mitch on November 14, 2001, at 0:07:32
Mitch,
I think your memory serves you well. I am finding I have a bloated, gastritis feeling on Eskalith, as well as nausea and heartburn! It really seems alot more like "traditional" lithium, in that it causes more polyuria and heat intolerance. Eskalith seems more like a "salt" (dah!) while the lithobid seems more like a "drug." The only side effects I have with the lithobid is a nasty taste in my mouth and of course hair and scalp pain that is making me want to scream.I tried the miserable dermasmoothe fs last night. It actually still is the night, my head continues to burn with the oil on my head so I can't sleep. In fact, it's nearly impossible to sleep with a crinkling shower cap on my head. Sleeping is hard enough. Add a wet, oily BURNING head, and I am in total despair.
After much deliberation throughout the wakeful night, I have realized, and my pdoc hinted at this, that the only way to resolve this problem is to d/c the lithium. I have been trying to d/c the neurontin, but med notes tell me that it doesn't give me hair "pain", just dry hair. So maybe it's back to the rather ineffective neurontin and less derm side effects.
I can't believe that I need to d/c another med. Perhaps I will stay at 300 mgs lithobid for a while and see if my burning skin and scalp lessens. But from my experience with Trileptal and Topomax, I had to be completeley OFF the med to get remission of symptoms.
So I will get remission of skin probs and exacerbation of emotional problems. Hooray, just in time for Thanksgiving!Have you ever heard of a person who can only stay on a decent med for just a few months, then they have to get off due to side effects? Why can't I find a helpful regime and stick with it for a while? The is just no stability in my life...And few treatment options left...
Thanks for your insight on the two Li's.
I hope your stretch lasts well into december!
Chloe
> I think you ought to use that oil stuff the dermatologist recommended and see what happens. I doubt if it could hurt!
> The difference between the two lithium preparations sounds really bizarro! It *could* be a dye that is in one and not the other that you might be allergic to (might be worth checking out).
> You know I just thought about this-but the Eskalith CR are the 450mg tabs right? Well, I used to be on Lithobid back in the early 80's (up to 1800mg/day-six tabs a day) and I had a *little* diarrhea, but I was on the Eskalith 450mg tabs in the early 90's and I had a *lot* of gastrointestinal problems with it. Also-I think the Lithobid tabs actually contain some sodium to help offset some of the unhealthy ion "competition" of Lithium while it is absorbed (just stretching deep into long-term memory space here!).
> Hey, I would just ask your pdoc to switch you back to Lithobid (IMO).
>
> Do you really think the Neurontin is hurting your skin? No doubt about it-it seems to *increase* oil and collagen in my skin.
>
> As far as my next phase goes-it hasn't happened just yet. It has been unusually sunny here in the midwest-maybe that's it. I can start getting *fatigued* as early as the first week of November, but usually I don't really notice it until just after Thanksgiving. I am no doubt about it DEPRESSED by the first week of December. The 2nd and 3rd week it deepens rapidly until I am sleeping about 12 hrs a day and am completely unfocused, inattentive, and lethargic. FOOD-gobble gobble yum yum. CLOTHES-let's see if I can get into those jeans. WORK-don't care if I have a job, what's the point? I must say that when I was on Adderall during this time it was the most miraculously positive response I have ever had for seasonal depression (5mg/day). Wellbutrin worked for summertime seasonal depressive episode. I am going to plug for the WB for this one (winter).
>
> Mitch
Posted by Mitch on November 14, 2001, at 9:20:40
In reply to Re: Need help-Lithium troubles/depair » Mitch, posted by Chloe on November 14, 2001, at 6:08:08
> I can't believe that I need to d/c another med. Perhaps I will stay at 300 mgs lithobid for a while and see if my burning skin and scalp lessens. But from my experience with Trileptal and Topomax, I had to be completeley OFF the med to get remission of symptoms.
> So I will get remission of skin probs and exacerbation of emotional problems. Hooray, just in time for Thanksgiving!
>
> Have you ever heard of a person who can only stay on a decent med for just a few months, then they have to get off due to side effects? Why can't I find a helpful regime and stick with it for a while? The is just no stability in my life...And few treatment options left...
>
> Thanks for your insight on the two Li's.
> I hope your stretch lasts well into december!
> Chloe
>Chloe,
Yeah, I would flip back to the Lithobid for a while and see if the derm problems ease up enough to handle. From, what I remember you didn't notice any sfx from the 300mg/day lithobid start. I don't think you have tried any Gabitril, yet. It is a little blunting like Topamax, but it is high potency and you might do ok on it without the skin hassles. You might ask your pdoc. As far as my "stretch" goes-I think I am already starting to get some fatigue. I am nodding off at work at times in the evening and having increased difficulty focusing. Oh well.
Mitch
Posted by susan C on November 14, 2001, at 10:56:42
In reply to Re: Need help-Lithium troubles » susan C, posted by Chloe on November 13, 2001, at 18:30:39
> Mouse,
> I have been gripping about my hair pain for a while to my pdoc. So she finally consulted a derm in her hospital. It was going to be over a month before I could get appointment around here...I just can't wait! Mouse, do you really have dry skin? Is it from a med, if so could you tell me which one? BTW, I enjoyed your Gabitril journal.
>
> Thanks for writing
> Chloe
hii think my skin has been always dry and itchy, a constant search for good lotion has finally landed on Aveeno. This co. also has no soap liquid skin cleaner. I wonder if they make a shampoo... Avaialble in most grocery and drug stores. Smells faintly like almond, which I like. I don't like strong smells. I have been trying to rub it in every morning and night and I have been much more comfortable.
Now, add to it, I am 50, so my skin is getting thinner and dryer, and I have been going thru AC trials...one or more of which made me itch so much i bout went nuts...so to speak. I also need to avoid long hot showers, baths and the pool..sigh...
So, I am thinking about buying several gallons of this Aveeno and stock in the company.
mouse mulling choices
susan C
Posted by Chloe on November 16, 2001, at 18:01:56
In reply to Need help-Lithium troubles, posted by Chloe on November 12, 2001, at 18:50:51
I really tried everything to counteract the dryness and pain. The awful hair oil perscribed to try to soothe my terribly sore scalp made it burn even worse. So I went to a derm. intern today, it takes 4 months to get a real derm appointment. They said the only thing that will stop my scalp from burning is to stop the lithium.
I am really upset. I can feel my temper getting shorter by the minute and I am not completely off the stuff yet. Lithium had a wonderful calming effect for me. Why can't I tolerate side effects? My friend says who cares about your hair, you need your meds for your mental health. But my head wakes me up at night because it hurts so much on the pillow. My follicles are screaming. And this happens several times a night. And then if I scratch my head or the wind blows my hair, it hurts intensely. This can't be good can it? Or am I just being a wimp?
The derm said that taking more neurontin may ease the pain a bit. And perhaps it could help with my emerging short fuse too? I wish there were some mood stabilizer that I could take take wouldn't make me anxious or destroy my skin/scalp. I am so scared. What am I to do now? Thanksgiving is next week and I am hosting company at my house. I planned all that while feeling good on the Li of course.
So now it's back to the 300 mgs (and maybe go up to 600???) neurontin, 1.5 mgs Celexa and diazapam. Oh I wish I didn't get so many side effects. the Li + neurontin was a great combo. What am i supposed to do now that Lithium, Lamictal, Trileptal, Topamax, Zyprexa have all failed??? Is anyone else this med side effect sensitive?thanks
Chloe
Posted by Mitch on November 17, 2001, at 0:00:00
In reply to Re: go to get off the Lithium :(, posted by Chloe on November 16, 2001, at 18:01:56
> I really tried everything to counteract the dryness and pain. The awful hair oil perscribed to try to soothe my terribly sore scalp made it burn even worse. So I went to a derm. intern today, it takes 4 months to get a real derm appointment. They said the only thing that will stop my scalp from burning is to stop the lithium.
>
> I am really upset. I can feel my temper getting shorter by the minute and I am not completely off the stuff yet. Lithium had a wonderful calming effect for me. Why can't I tolerate side effects? My friend says who cares about your hair, you need your meds for your mental health. But my head wakes me up at night because it hurts so much on the pillow. My follicles are screaming. And this happens several times a night. And then if I scratch my head or the wind blows my hair, it hurts intensely. This can't be good can it? Or am I just being a wimp?
>
> The derm said that taking more neurontin may ease the pain a bit. And perhaps it could help with my emerging short fuse too? I wish there were some mood stabilizer that I could take take wouldn't make me anxious or destroy my skin/scalp. I am so scared. What am I to do now? Thanksgiving is next week and I am hosting company at my house. I planned all that while feeling good on the Li of course.
> So now it's back to the 300 mgs (and maybe go up to 600???) neurontin, 1.5 mgs Celexa and diazapam. Oh I wish I didn't get so many side effects. the Li + neurontin was a great combo. What am i supposed to do now that Lithium, Lamictal, Trileptal, Topamax, Zyprexa have all failed??? Is anyone else this med side effect sensitive?
>
> thanks
> Chloe
Chloe,I would *really* try the Neurontin increase. It *does* increase oil and collagen in my skin. I can really tell that-I'm serious!
Oh, and here is another idea I had after I posted my last message to you: You started the lithium and didn't seem to have any of the side effects you had previously. Then, they cropped up on you. I mentioned thyroid augmentation before as a possible help. WELL... Have you had a TSH blood test done, ever?? If you are hypothyroid, your skin can get very dry, flaky, and even itchy. Lithium can cause hypothyroidism. You may have started on the Li and felt ok, and then you may have become hypothyroid which aggravated your skin troubles. Ask your pdoc about a simple TSH blood test. IF it is *higher* than 2.0 than you need treatment. That *might* help out your skin problems. Just a little brain fartlette,
Mitch
Posted by Chloe on November 17, 2001, at 9:07:50
In reply to Re: go to get off the Lithium :( » Chloe, posted by Mitch on November 17, 2001, at 0:00:00
Hey Mitch
I did have a TSH drawn by my gyn (not my pdoc!) because I was having some heavy bleeding. I think I had been on the Li for about a month at the time. And I didn't have any scalp pain at the time, but I did have dry hair. And I had a level of 1.97.The thing is I don't have "unusually" dry skin. But do have problems with my hands and feet. I have *always* had to moisturize constantly, esp after showering. My biggest problem is the dry hair. Which isn't so bad until the scalp pain emerged. My follicles are killing, probably because they are so dried out and brittle from all these meds.
It just seems to me that I have a short window of success on these psych meds. I get stability and relief from depression for a month or two, then bam! I get whalloped with side effects that I can't tolerate and I have to go off.
Thyroid is something that my pdoc should have monitored. But she seemed to have backed off from doing anything more for me. Last week, She called in a different brand of Li, then asked a collegue about the scalp treatement and called that in...Now all attempts I have made to reach her and discuss this have gone unanswered. I think she is really busy and burned out from working with someone who is in constant distress from meds. If I am not suffering from side effects, then I am suffering from depression and instability.
God, I am down to 225 mgs of Li and still no relief at all from my scalp pain! It wakes me up in the night. When will this go away? Could thyroid augmentation help this?
Your fartlette got my wheels turning...
Thanks Chloe
Posted by Mitch on November 17, 2001, at 15:59:26
In reply to Re:Lithium/thyroid » Mitch, posted by Chloe on November 17, 2001, at 9:07:50
> Hey Mitch
> I did have a TSH drawn by my gyn (not my pdoc!) because I was having some heavy bleeding. I think I had been on the Li for about a month at the time. And I didn't have any scalp pain at the time, but I did have dry hair. And I had a level of 1.97.
>
> The thing is I don't have "unusually" dry skin. But do have problems with my hands and feet. I have *always* had to moisturize constantly, esp after showering. My biggest problem is the dry hair. Which isn't so bad until the scalp pain emerged. My follicles are killing, probably because they are so dried out and brittle from all these meds.
>
> It just seems to me that I have a short window of success on these psych meds. I get stability and relief from depression for a month or two, then bam! I get whalloped with side effects that I can't tolerate and I have to go off.
>
> Thyroid is something that my pdoc should have monitored. But she seemed to have backed off from doing anything more for me. Last week, She called in a different brand of Li, then asked a collegue about the scalp treatement and called that in...Now all attempts I have made to reach her and discuss this have gone unanswered. I think she is really busy and burned out from working with someone who is in constant distress from meds. If I am not suffering from side effects, then I am suffering from depression and instability.
>
> God, I am down to 225 mgs of Li and still no relief at all from my scalp pain! It wakes me up in the night. When will this go away? Could thyroid augmentation help this?
>
> Your fartlette got my wheels turning...
> Thanks ChloeChloe,
That TSH level is on the edge of hypothyroid. From what my endo said, I believe the "normal" range is now between 0.6-2.0 (anybody correct me if this is inaccurate). I would ask your pdoc about a *little* T4 augmentation. Hey, just enough to pull you back into the "middle" of the normal range and see what happens?? Maybe you can stay on 300mg of Lithobid with your other meds and your skin won't be as dry. Another thing: What about supplements for your hair, hair folicles, etc. Maybe you need some extra B-complex, vitamin E, etc.
Mitch
Posted by Chloe on November 18, 2001, at 21:24:13
In reply to Re:Lithium/thyroid » Chloe, posted by Mitch on November 17, 2001, at 15:59:26
Mitch
I think normal TSH is .6-5.5. So I am well within normal range.I stopped the Li last night after titrating down, and I feel horrible. So depressed (teary and all I want to do is sleep) and unstable. But my hair pain is slightly better. Better hair, worse mood.
My dad was saying I should try Vioxx or some med to stop the pain on my scalp instead of d/c the Li. But I can't get a hold of my pdoc. And I don't want to add anymore meds. Especailly when I haven't found things like Aleve very helpful.
I think increasing the neurontin has helped a little with the nerve pain, thouogh. I find I am sleeping better and not waking up to my aching hair follicles...BTW, I take a B complex, E, multivit, and 3g fish oil for my head and hair! That is what's left of my thinning hair :(
Glad you got your Wellbutrin and having relative success with it so far.
Chloe
Posted by Mitch on November 19, 2001, at 9:39:05
In reply to Re:Lithium/thyroid » Mitch, posted by Chloe on November 18, 2001, at 21:24:13
> Mitch
> I think normal TSH is .6-5.5. So I am well within normal range.
>
> I stopped the Li last night after titrating down, and I feel horrible. So depressed (teary and all I want to do is sleep) and unstable. But my hair pain is slightly better. Better hair, worse mood.
>
> My dad was saying I should try Vioxx or some med to stop the pain on my scalp instead of d/c the Li. But I can't get a hold of my pdoc. And I don't want to add anymore meds. Especailly when I haven't found things like Aleve very helpful.
> I think increasing the neurontin has helped a little with the nerve pain, thouogh. I find I am sleeping better and not waking up to my aching hair follicles...
>
> BTW, I take a B complex, E, multivit, and 3g fish oil for my head and hair! That is what's left of my thinning hair :(
>
> Glad you got your Wellbutrin and having relative success with it so far.
> ChloeChloe,
I mentioned 2.0 being the "top" side of the TSH level but failed to explain why. I was on an "official" endocrinology site, and it is true much higher TSH values were used in the past to "call" hypothyroidism. It is now recommended that endocrinologists treat people whose TSH levels are now between 2.0 and the older threshold of 5.5 you mentioned. Sorry, I don't have the link.
I wonder if your hair follicle pain is some sort of neuropathic type pain. That should respond well to Neurontin. You also were on Tegretol in the past and it should have helped, too (maybe add back the TEG at a lower dose that doesn't get your guts churning?). I also think TCA's are used for that as well. BTW, SSRI meds tend to *aggravate* pain for me. I have some arthritis in my right ankle. Well, when I am on higher doses of SSRI, I almost limp when I walk at times it is so painful (arthralgia). Zoloft and Prozac both cause fairly nasty lower back pain as well. Celexa for some reason seems to spark pain in the tendons for the striatal muscles in my neck. I don't know which TCA is used the most for neuropathic pain-I think amitriptyline?? Well, there are a few more options to think about.
Hope this helps,Mitch
Posted by Chloe on November 19, 2001, at 11:01:05
In reply to Re:Lithium/thyroid+neuropathic pain? » Chloe, posted by Mitch on November 19, 2001, at 9:39:05
Mitch
All of what you say is quite useful. I was so depressed and suicidal over the weekend I considered going to an ER. But then I thought, the docs are just going to think I am totally nuts, becuasue "I won't take my Li because my hair hurts." I think they would have put me on an AP and back on the Li and send me home in a few hours.
I think this would have happened because there is no rash or flaking on my scalp. It just really hurt when I move my hair or lie on it! It does sound crazy. But I do know it's real. And the hair pain hasn't greatly improved since I stopped the Li two nights ago. But hopefully with time and increased neurontin, it will get better???I wish I knew what kind of doc to go to, to straightent out all this mess. My pdoc clearly is out of her realm, and thinks it's some skin condition that I am having from the Li. An invisible skin condition?...She also didn't seem concerned about the TSH.
Man, this is so upsetting to me that I can't get a good med regime that I can tolerate. I really miss the "cognitive dulling" of the Li. I LIKE not being too focused, or so aware of everything. Li just turn down the volume and that was such a relief. AND I am off the Li and still have scalp pain...GRR
Who knows, maybe I have just gone nuts! Is neuropathic pain even a side effect of Li or other mood stabilizers, like Trileptal, the other culprit for me?
Thanks again, Mitch.
Chloe>
> Chloe,
>
> I mentioned 2.0 being the "top" side of the TSH level but failed to explain why. I was on an "official" endocrinology site, and it is true much higher TSH values were used in the past to "call" hypothyroidism. It is now recommended that endocrinologists treat people whose TSH levels are now between 2.0 and the older threshold of 5.5 you mentioned. Sorry, I don't have the link.
> I wonder if your hair follicle pain is some sort of neuropathic type pain. That should respond well to Neurontin. You also were on Tegretol in the past and it should have helped, too (maybe add back the TEG at a lower dose that doesn't get your guts churning?). I also think TCA's are used for that as well. BTW, SSRI meds tend to *aggravate* pain for me. I have some arthritis in my right ankle. Well, when I am on higher doses of SSRI, I almost limp when I walk at times it is so painful (arthralgia). Zoloft and Prozac both cause fairly nasty lower back pain as well. Celexa for some reason seems to spark pain in the tendons for the striatal muscles in my neck. I don't know which TCA is used the most for neuropathic pain-I think amitriptyline?? Well, there are a few more options to think about.
> Hope this helps,
>
> Mitch
Posted by Mitch on November 19, 2001, at 13:33:21
In reply to Re:Lithium/thyroid+neuropathic pain?, posted by Chloe on November 19, 2001, at 11:01:05
> Mitch
> I think this would have happened because there is no rash or flaking on my scalp. It just really hurt when I move my hair or lie on it! It does sound crazy. But I do know it's real. And the hair pain hasn't greatly improved since I stopped the Li two nights ago. But hopefully with time and increased neurontin, it will get better???I think you are on 300mg a day (that's what I am on), right? Are you taking that all at bedtime? Mine is 100mg x3, my script is 100mg x4 (if I want to up it at times). You might ask about doubling it and hold it there for a while (300mg 2x). I must admit that higher doses settled my irritable bowel down considerably on Neurontin. If I go from 300-400mg/day for several days my skin gets quite *oily* (I am clueless why).
>
> I wish I knew what kind of doc to go to, to straightent out all this mess. My pdoc clearly is out of her realm, and thinks it's some skin condition that I am having from the Li. An invisible skin condition?...She also didn't seem concerned about the TSH.If I were in your position I would try to do a lot of intensive internet searching (derm conditions, neuropathies). All it might take is the right website and you may find some rare dx that is treatable with some obscure med-who knows??
>
> Man, this is so upsetting to me that I can't get a good med regime that I can tolerate. I really miss the "cognitive dulling" of the Li. I LIKE not being too focused, or so aware of everything. Li just turn down the volume and that was such a relief. AND I am off the Li and still have scalp pain...GRRI really wonder about the difference between the Lithobid and the Eskalith (dyes, etc.). You said your pdoc called in some Lithobid? Li's got a fairly long half-life. You might try restarting the Lithobid, but just take it once every other day for a while, until you can get on something else.
>
> Who knows, maybe I have just gone nuts! Is neuropathic pain even a side effect of Li or other mood stabilizers, like Trileptal, the other culprit for me?I doubt it. I think the only ones you have mentioned that haven't really aggravated it were Neurontin and Tegretol. Neurontin and Teg for sure is used for chronic pain syndromes. You really might consider going back on a lower dose of Teg with a higher dose of Neurontin.
> Thanks again, Mitch.
> Chloe
>
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.