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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Hattree on September 6, 2001, at 15:39:22
I guess many of us wouldn't be here if we had smashing success with meds, but sometimes I fear these mood disorders are largely untreatable. Anyone have any long term positive effects to report?
Posted by sl on September 6, 2001, at 19:17:15
In reply to Any Success Stories?, posted by Hattree on September 6, 2001, at 15:39:22
Um, of course.
Lots of us have been on one med or one cocktail for years. Some, like me, occasionally need a little bit of change but not a lot.sl
> I guess many of us wouldn't be here if we had smashing success with meds, but sometimes I fear these mood disorders are largely untreatable. Anyone have any long term positive effects to report?
Posted by Joy on September 6, 2001, at 21:25:04
In reply to Any Success Stories?, posted by Hattree on September 6, 2001, at 15:39:22
Hi. I do quite well on 40 mg Prozac with a little Xanax when needed. I take 50 mg Trazodone with .5 dose of Xanax for sleeping. The Prozac is very good for me; sometimes I get a little anxious or panicky [not bad] in certain situations so I take .25 Xanax when needed. This has worked well for me; Prozac made a big difference for me.
Joy
> I guess many of us wouldn't be here if we had smashing success with meds, but sometimes I fear these mood disorders are largely untreatable. Anyone have any long term positive effects to report?
Posted by JohnL on September 7, 2001, at 5:03:42
In reply to Any Success Stories?, posted by Hattree on September 6, 2001, at 15:39:22
I am one of the few success stories that still hangs around. There have been many success stories right here at psychobabble, but unfortunately they mostly seem to stop coming around once they are well.
There was a guy named WayneR, who after 20 years of everything under the sun, found a complete cure with Prozac+Naltrexone.
There was a girl who said something like, "What is this 6 week wait stuff? I feel great on my first day on Wellbutrin".
A guy named Adam had good success when he entered a clinical study for Deprenyl in a skin patch version of the drug.
A regular here named St James has had success with Effexor+Remeron.
My success, after ten years of trying everything, came from Prozexanil. There is no such thing as Prozexanil, however. It is my home made term for my cocktail of Prozac+Zyprexa+Adrafinil.
There have been plenty of other success stories. I do believe that 95% of psychiatric cases can reach almost 100% improvement when the correct meds are tried. Each person has uniques chemistry, unique flaws in that chemistry, unique genes and unique circumstances, so success stories usually involve different drugs from one person to the next.
Generally I feel that for success, the drug must target the real underlying chemical problem directly. Clues can be gathered from medication reactions to help identify what the underlying problem is. For example, if someone has tried three SSRIs and only got worse on them all, then it is a pretty fair guess that they do not have a low serotonin chemistry, and that the likelihood of another SSRI working is greatly diminished.
In casual observation, anecdotal evidence, and clinical evidence, what are some of the very best drugs out there with the highest potential for success? They are...
Prozac+Adrafinil
Prozac+Zyprexa
Other SSRI+Zyprexa
Tricyclic+Zyprexa
Prozexanil :-)
SSRI+RisperdalAlso noteworthy, though not quite as impressive as the above list, are...
SSRI+Wellbutrin
SSRI+Nortriptyline or Desipramine
SSRI+Remeron
SSRI+NaltrexoneWhat are some of the lowest odds for success?
Anti convulsants.Of course, clinical studies show just about anything to be 70% effective. So research does not jive with my own casual observations over the years. Research for example shows anticonvulsants to be good drugs for psychiatric symptoms, but in the real world here at psychobabble, it is very hard to find anyone who loves their anticonvulsant.
For the highest odds for success though, I have seen nothing as impressive as Zyprexa in combination with an antidepressant. If everyone could go straight to that first, I believe many people would no longer be struggling. And to make it even better, a touch of Adrafinil is icing on the cake.
John> I guess many of us wouldn't be here if we had smashing success with meds, but sometimes I fear these mood disorders are largely untreatable. Anyone have any long term positive effects to report?
Posted by Wendy B. on September 7, 2001, at 7:50:57
In reply to Re: Any Success Stories?, posted by JohnL on September 7, 2001, at 5:03:42
> I am one of the few success stories that still hangs around. There have been many success stories right here at psychobabble, but unfortunately they mostly seem to stop coming around once they are well.
>
> There was a guy named WayneR, who after 20 years of everything under the sun, found a complete cure with Prozac+Naltrexone.
>
> There was a girl who said something like, "What is this 6 week wait stuff? I feel great on my first day on Wellbutrin".
>
> A guy named Adam had good success when he entered a clinical study for Deprenyl in a skin patch version of the drug.
>
> A regular here named St James has had success with Effexor+Remeron.
>
> My success, after ten years of trying everything, came from Prozexanil. There is no such thing as Prozexanil, however. It is my home made term for my cocktail of Prozac+Zyprexa+Adrafinil.
>
> There have been plenty of other success stories. I do believe that 95% of psychiatric cases can reach almost 100% improvement when the correct meds are tried. Each person has uniques chemistry, unique flaws in that chemistry, unique genes and unique circumstances, so success stories usually involve different drugs from one person to the next.
>
> Generally I feel that for success, the drug must target the real underlying chemical problem directly. Clues can be gathered from medication reactions to help identify what the underlying problem is. For example, if someone has tried three SSRIs and only got worse on them all, then it is a pretty fair guess that they do not have a low serotonin chemistry, and that the likelihood of another SSRI working is greatly diminished.
>
> In casual observation, anecdotal evidence, and clinical evidence, what are some of the very best drugs out there with the highest potential for success? They are...
> Prozac+Adrafinil
> Prozac+Zyprexa
> Other SSRI+Zyprexa
> Tricyclic+Zyprexa
> Prozexanil :-)
> SSRI+Risperdal
>
> Also noteworthy, though not quite as impressive as the above list, are...
> SSRI+Wellbutrin
> SSRI+Nortriptyline or Desipramine
> SSRI+Remeron
> SSRI+Naltrexone
>
> What are some of the lowest odds for success?
> Anti convulsants.
>
> Of course, clinical studies show just about anything to be 70% effective. So research does not jive with my own casual observations over the years. Research for example shows anticonvulsants to be good drugs for psychiatric symptoms, but in the real world here at psychobabble, it is very hard to find anyone who loves their anticonvulsant.
>
> For the highest odds for success though, I have seen nothing as impressive as Zyprexa in combination with an antidepressant. If everyone could go straight to that first, I believe many people would no longer be struggling. And to make it even better, a touch of Adrafinil is icing on the cake.
> JohnHey, JohnL,
I'm a long-time fan of yours... I appreciate the fact that you encourage people and stick around, even though you seem to have found drug-nirvana. I also admire your stick-to-your-guns mentality re: ordering meds from other countries, even though there is a BIG resistance to it on this board. I think you are right, for all the reasons you've gone into several times (especially lately, with the big backlash against SalArmy and his recommendation that people order their own drugs from alternate sources), and which I won't repeat here.
However (you knew there was going to be a 'however', didn't you?), in total opposition to your statement: "in the real world here at psychobabble, it is very hard to find anyone who loves their anticonvulsant," I just want to say that I am very fond of my anti-convulsant neurontin. I take 2400 mg every day (seems like I pop 'em like candy, hey! maybe they'll make orange-flavor chewables!). This augments the happy pill wellbutrin (used to take zoloft, but it pooped out after 3+ years on the stuff). The doseage is 300 mg of the Sr version. But I don't know what I'd do without the neurontin, it keeps me on roughly the same level throughout my day, a seemingly impossible task a year ago... My dx is BP I, so you know. If I weren't on neurontin, I'd probably be on depakote or something stronger, and I'm not ready for the side-effect profile of depakote. And lithium would seem too strong for what I have: one manic episode, otherwise, just a little on the hypomanic, heavy on the depressive end of the scale. So, Hattree, it is a success story of a certain kind - the meds keep me at a pretty stable level, so that the good effects of talk-therapy have at least a fighting chance... I am not cured, but there is hope that my second 40 years will be a little brighter.
This is, of course, just my own experience, I sure wouldn't like to have my scrip for neurontin taken away tomorrow...
Keep on truckin', and best wishes,
Wendy
Posted by caroline on September 7, 2001, at 12:30:24
In reply to Any Success Stories?, posted by Hattree on September 6, 2001, at 15:39:22
Hi!
My experience with meds is definitely in the category of success story, and it was entirely down to this board, and particularly to JohnL that I found the magic combination that works for me (after 10 years of trying different drugs, and trying to be drug free, and basically feeling permanently suicidally depressed).
I am on the wierd and wonderful combination of 45-75mg of remeron + 75mg of anafranil (taken at night, to knock me out), and 22.5mg of Zimovane which I take during the day (at 11am, 3pm and 6pm).
I feel as though, thanks to this board and JohnL, I've been given my life back. The combination worked for me from day one and I've felt great now for the best part of two years. Before I found this board, I'd kind of given up on the idea of ever feeling good again.
THANKYOU DR BOB for this incredible site, and THANKYOU JOHNL for your advice and the scientific information to back it which I took to my GP and thus led to my getting my life back. I could not be more grateful!
Caroline
Posted by JohnL on September 7, 2001, at 17:32:28
In reply to Re: success stories? plug for AC's » JohnL, posted by Wendy B. on September 7, 2001, at 7:50:57
Awesome post Wendy! Thanks for sharing. I find it very cool and very interesting you do well with Neurontin. I wasn't aware anyone here was doing well with an anticonvulsant. I like to be wrong! :-) In this case, I'm very glad I'm wrong. It works for you, and in my book that is marvelous!
John
>
> Hey, JohnL,
>
> I'm a long-time fan of yours... I appreciate the fact that you encourage people and stick around, even though you seem to have found drug-nirvana. I also admire your stick-to-your-guns mentality re: ordering meds from other countries, even though there is a BIG resistance to it on this board. I think you are right, for all the reasons you've gone into several times (especially lately, with the big backlash against SalArmy and his recommendation that people order their own drugs from alternate sources), and which I won't repeat here.
>
> However (you knew there was going to be a 'however', didn't you?), in total opposition to your statement: "in the real world here at psychobabble, it is very hard to find anyone who loves their anticonvulsant," I just want to say that I am very fond of my anti-convulsant neurontin. I take 2400 mg every day (seems like I pop 'em like candy, hey! maybe they'll make orange-flavor chewables!). This augments the happy pill wellbutrin (used to take zoloft, but it pooped out after 3+ years on the stuff). The doseage is 300 mg of the Sr version. But I don't know what I'd do without the neurontin, it keeps me on roughly the same level throughout my day, a seemingly impossible task a year ago... My dx is BP I, so you know. If I weren't on neurontin, I'd probably be on depakote or something stronger, and I'm not ready for the side-effect profile of depakote. And lithium would seem too strong for what I have: one manic episode, otherwise, just a little on the hypomanic, heavy on the depressive end of the scale. So, Hattree, it is a success story of a certain kind - the meds keep me at a pretty stable level, so that the good effects of talk-therapy have at least a fighting chance... I am not cured, but there is hope that my second 40 years will be a little brighter.
>
> This is, of course, just my own experience, I sure wouldn't like to have my scrip for neurontin taken away tomorrow...
>
> Keep on truckin', and best wishes,
>
> Wendy
Posted by susan C on September 8, 2001, at 16:17:13
In reply to Re: Any Success Stories?, posted by JohnL on September 7, 2001, at 5:03:42
Lets, see, after trying a list of various and insundry chemicals, I now don't touch ssri or ad and found relief with Ambien (oh, wonderful sleep) then, Depakote (25%-30%? in four weeks) and now after about 8 months, am trying Keppra...
still contemplating that one. After a few weeks, through the side effects, I noticed change perhaps improvement in mood and definately a change in appetite. But it will be awhile before I can say for sure.
mouse in the experimental lab-or-a-tory
Susan C> I am one of the few success stories that still hangs around. There have been many success stories right here at psychobabble, but unfortunately they mostly seem to stop coming around once they are well.
>
> There was a guy named WayneR, who after 20 years of everything under the sun, found a complete cure with Prozac+Naltrexone.
>
> There was a girl who said something like, "What is this 6 week wait stuff? I feel great on my first day on Wellbutrin".
>
> A guy named Adam had good success when he entered a clinical study for Deprenyl in a skin patch version of the drug.
>
> A regular here named St James has had success with Effexor+Remeron.
>
> My success, after ten years of trying everything, came from Prozexanil. There is no such thing as Prozexanil, however. It is my home made term for my cocktail of Prozac+Zyprexa+Adrafinil.
>
> There have been plenty of other success stories. I do believe that 95% of psychiatric cases can reach almost 100% improvement when the correct meds are tried. Each person has uniques chemistry, unique flaws in that chemistry, unique genes and unique circumstances, so success stories usually involve different drugs from one person to the next.
>
> Generally I feel that for success, the drug must target the real underlying chemical problem directly. Clues can be gathered from medication reactions to help identify what the underlying problem is. For example, if someone has tried three SSRIs and only got worse on them all, then it is a pretty fair guess that they do not have a low serotonin chemistry, and that the likelihood of another SSRI working is greatly diminished.
>
> In casual observation, anecdotal evidence, and clinical evidence, what are some of the very best drugs out there with the highest potential for success? They are...
> Prozac+Adrafinil
> Prozac+Zyprexa
> Other SSRI+Zyprexa
> Tricyclic+Zyprexa
> Prozexanil :-)
> SSRI+Risperdal
>
> Also noteworthy, though not quite as impressive as the above list, are...
> SSRI+Wellbutrin
> SSRI+Nortriptyline or Desipramine
> SSRI+Remeron
> SSRI+Naltrexone
>
> What are some of the lowest odds for success?
> Anti convulsants.
>
> Of course, clinical studies show just about anything to be 70% effective. So research does not jive with my own casual observations over the years. Research for example shows anticonvulsants to be good drugs for psychiatric symptoms, but in the real world here at psychobabble, it is very hard to find anyone who loves their anticonvulsant.
>
> For the highest odds for success though, I have seen nothing as impressive as Zyprexa in combination with an antidepressant. If everyone could go straight to that first, I believe many people would no longer be struggling. And to make it even better, a touch of Adrafinil is icing on the cake.
> John
>
> > I guess many of us wouldn't be here if we had smashing success with meds, but sometimes I fear these mood disorders are largely untreatable. Anyone have any long term positive effects to report?
Posted by Emme on September 9, 2001, at 12:47:50
In reply to Any Success Stories?, posted by Hattree on September 6, 2001, at 15:39:22
I found out that someone I know has been stable and feeling good for many years with Prozac and something else (I forget what).
> I guess many of us wouldn't be here if we had smashing success with meds, but sometimes I fear these mood disorders are largely untreatable. Anyone have any long term positive effects to report?
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 9, 2001, at 18:03:42
In reply to Re: Any Success Stories? » Hattree, posted by Emme on September 9, 2001, at 12:47:50
> I second Wendy's comments, John. I look forward to your posts and appreciate someone with hope "sticking around."
Bad weekend for me with meds. This thread was encouraging, though.
AC's - Neurontin, then Topamax, now Depakote, have actually helped me, but it's as if they just don't quite do it. I have a feeling there's something missing from my list of Prozac, Topamax and Dep. (ambien occ. for sleep).
But they do help me think more clearly and reduce the mania which was getting psychotic in nature, so I'm thankful for that.
I was started on Zyprexa, and my right eye started twitching. My pdoc didn't think it was connected, but it stopped when the med stopped. Even Worse, :), I gained weight Rapidly. But I'd be willing to try it again.
Thanks again.
- K.
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 9, 2001, at 18:04:54
In reply to Re: Any Success Stories? Plug for AC too, posted by susan C on September 8, 2001, at 16:17:13
That's a terrible, terrible joke... ;)
Posted by fluffykitty on September 10, 2001, at 12:15:20
In reply to Re: success stories? plug for AC's » JohnL, posted by Wendy B. on September 7, 2001, at 7:50:57
> However (you knew there was going to be a 'however', didn't you?), in total opposition to your statement: "in the real world here at psychobabble, it is very hard to find anyone who loves their anticonvulsant," I just want to say that I am very fond of my anti-convulsant >neurontin. I take 2400 mg every day (seems like
Hi. I like my Neurontin too!
1800mg a day!!!
Posted by Chris A. on September 10, 2001, at 14:09:20
In reply to Re: Any Success Stories? Plug for AC too, posted by susan C on September 8, 2001, at 16:17:13
Lamotrigine (Lamictal) is my number one med of choice. ADs were nearly the death of me. Perhaps a lot of people want to hang onto the notion that they have major depression, because it is not as stigmatizing as a diagnosis in the bipolar spectrum. That's what I did and it caused permanent harm in the form of treatment resistant rapid cycling and mixed states as a result of taking ADs. There's a mentality that says "I'm depressed," or "this patient is depressed," so an antidepressant is the answer. Susan McElroy, a noted bipolar researcher, points out that much of mania and hypomania presents as dysphoric or mixed. One never has to have been euphoric a day in their lives to benefit from mood stabilizers (the anticonvulants and lithium). It often takes a lot of tinkering to find the right AC or combinations thereof. All, with the exception of Lamictal, leave me too foggy to function safely. Lamictal hasn't cured me, but it's been a life saver.
Another plug for ACs,
Chris A.
Research for example shows anticonvulsants to be good drugs for psychiatric symptoms, but in the real world here at psychobabble, it is very hard to find anyone who loves their anticonvulsant.
Posted by lattecrzy on September 11, 2001, at 4:49:50
In reply to Re: Any Success Stories? Plug for AC too, posted by Chris A. on September 10, 2001, at 14:09:20
I'm captivated by this discussion because I just was caught up in the whole process of the AD vs. AC dilema myself. As a matter of fact. I read this board often but have only posted a couple of times but about a few weeks ago, I was contemplating suicide because I felt so completely messed up and lost. This while on AC/AD cocktail. That is how that stuff works on me. I was diag. BP 2 a couple of years ago and when speaking to a doc reacently she mentioned that it was odd that a woman my age would be diagnosed with that (55). This is true, because since my early teens, I have been treated for depression. When given AD's, they never worked!!! Actually, most of the time, I got worse. Surprise, surprise. Which is what happened this time! Although I was on an AC cocktail of Topamax and Depakote, when my Pdoc thought I was getting more depressed, he upped the dose of my AD and I took a dive into hell. That was not a pleasant time. Fortunately, at the same time, he ramped up the dose of the Topamax to a higher dosage before he left for his vacation. After about five days of hell, I new it was the AD and decided to quit taking the pills. later I called his office so that they would tell the on call doc. I also followed up with my Pdoc who agreed to stop with the AD's. I can't say that I feel wonderful with the AC's. I'm sleepy some during the day, I have some memory problems, but on the whole, it sure beats the hell out of being brain dead like I was on both.
Thank you for allowing me to rant!
Posted by susan C on September 11, 2001, at 10:44:03
In reply to Re: Any Success Stories? Plug for AC too, posted by lattecrzy on September 11, 2001, at 4:49:50
put me on your list of 'you are not alone'
Susan C
> I'm captivated by this discussion because I just was caught up in the whole process of the AD vs. AC dilema myself. As a matter of fact. I read this board often but have only posted a couple of times but about a few weeks ago, I was contemplating suicide because I felt so completely messed up and lost. This while on AC/AD cocktail. That is how that stuff works on me. I was diag. BP 2 a couple of years ago and when speaking to a doc reacently she mentioned that it was odd that a woman my age would be diagnosed with that (55). This is true, because since my early teens, I have been treated for depression. When given AD's, they never worked!!! Actually, most of the time, I got worse. Surprise, surprise. Which is what happened this time! Although I was on an AC cocktail of Topamax and Depakote, when my Pdoc thought I was getting more depressed, he upped the dose of my AD and I took a dive into hell. That was not a pleasant time. Fortunately, at the same time, he ramped up the dose of the Topamax to a higher dosage before he left for his vacation. After about five days of hell, I new it was the AD and decided to quit taking the pills. later I called his office so that they would tell the on call doc. I also followed up with my Pdoc who agreed to stop with the AD's. I can't say that I feel wonderful with the AC's. I'm sleepy some during the day, I have some memory problems, but on the whole, it sure beats the hell out of being brain dead like I was on both.
>
> Thank you for allowing me to rant!
This is the end of the thread.
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