Shown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JohnL on September 6, 2001, at 4:53:25
Hi all,
I have noticed myself deteriorating recently. I have been completely confused as to why that is happening. At first glance, nothing has changed. But with deeper investigation, I discovered that my most recent prescription refill was for generic fluoxetine instead of authentic Prozac.So I got another refill, this time with real Prozac. I could tell a very positive difference the very first day I switched from generic to authentic.
I understand that the authentic version and the generic version are molecularly and chemically identical, supposedly. My pharmacist told me the only difference is in the inert fillers. But I am totally completely convinced they are not the same. How they are not the same is a mystery to me. I don't get it. I do not understand. All I know for sure is that I deteriorate on generic fluoxetine, and I thrive on authentic fluoxetine from Ely Lilly.
I have heard similar reports from other people concerning generic versus authentic with other drugs. I always thought it was a bunch of nonsense. Now I feel differently about it.
Why and how is generic different from authentic? There IS a difference, no doubt about it. It is NOT my imagination, and it is NOT placebo effect. It is REAL.
Anyone have any ideas on this?
Thank you,
John
Posted by adamie on September 6, 2001, at 9:03:36
In reply to Is Real Prozac Better Than Generic? Cam? Anyone?, posted by JohnL on September 6, 2001, at 4:53:25
> Hi all,
> I have noticed myself deteriorating recently. I have been completely confused as to why that is happening. At first glance, nothing has changed. But with deeper investigation, I discovered that my most recent prescription refill was for generic fluoxetine instead of authentic Prozac.
>
> So I got another refill, this time with real Prozac. I could tell a very positive difference the very first day I switched from generic to authentic.
>
> I understand that the authentic version and the generic version are molecularly and chemically identical, supposedly. My pharmacist told me the only difference is in the inert fillers. But I am totally completely convinced they are not the same. How they are not the same is a mystery to me. I don't get it. I do not understand. All I know for sure is that I deteriorate on generic fluoxetine, and I thrive on authentic fluoxetine from Ely Lilly.
>
> I have heard similar reports from other people concerning generic versus authentic with other drugs. I always thought it was a bunch of nonsense. Now I feel differently about it.
>
> Why and how is generic different from authentic? There IS a difference, no doubt about it. It is NOT my imagination, and it is NOT placebo effect. It is REAL.
>
> Anyone have any ideas on this?
> Thank you,
> Johnhi john. i certainly hope this isn't the case for i just started taking prozac 20mg generic yesterday. i hope it'll be good for me.
Posted by Cam W. on September 6, 2001, at 9:21:23
In reply to Is Real Prozac Better Than Generic? Cam? Anyone?, posted by JohnL on September 6, 2001, at 4:53:25
John - We have had generic versions of drugs in Canada for many years now. The argument of lower effectiveness of generics was argued adamantly in the press back then. The complaints that are starting to appear in the U.S. are exactly what we saw in Canada. We were even taught in pharmacy school that "some" generic companies did make inferior versions.
About 4 or 5 years after the release of generics, third party payers began to demand that generics be used. The government, at this time (around 1990) also tightened it's reign on the quality of generic drug production. Today, generic versions of drugs are commonplace, and few people question their effectiveness.
Psychological factors, including nocicebo effect, are very strong indeed (and very deceptive).
- Cam
Posted by Daveman on September 7, 2001, at 0:52:09
In reply to Re: Is Real Prozac Better Than Generic? Cam? Anyone?, posted by Cam W. on September 6, 2001, at 9:21:23
Cam:
You raise a question I've wondered about for some time, that is, whether the alleged differences between generic vs. original drugs is a placebo issue or a real one. When I was on Xanax and Klonopin, I took generic versions of each and found them plenty potent. But others who've tried both claim there is a real difference. The Geneva Pharm. Xanax has come in for particular criticism on this Board, which interestingly is the version I received.
Have there been any comprehensive studies done to determine whether the differences between generics and originals is real or placebo? If so, could you (or anyone else) point me to them? Thanks.
Dave
Posted by Cam W. on September 7, 2001, at 1:10:03
In reply to Cam: Generic vs. Original- Placebo effect?, posted by Daveman on September 7, 2001, at 0:52:09
Daveman - I have seen a couple of studies, but not many. I know that there was a clozapine study done recently in the U.S. using generics and Clozaril, showing no difference. This study was in a supplemental (#5) of The Journal of Clinical Pyschiatry, this year.
The reason that no one does (or at least doesn't publish) studies of benzodiazepines is that it would not be cost-efficient. The brand name drug companies (who have the money to do these tests) would do them, and publicize them, if there were any real difference in drug effect.
Also, much of this testing is done by Health Canada (CDN) and the FDA (U.S.) on an ongoing basis, and if the pharmacokinetics (absorption, distribution, metabolism, and excretion) were different in the generic than the brand name drug standards, that lot of generic drugs would not allowed to be sold.
There has been some question as to whether the testing methods of Health Canada and the FDA mimic real life. The case that some researchers make is pretty weak. The study that I have read most recently was in the same supplemental (#5) of The Journal of Clinical Psychiatry as the Clozaril/generic study.
I hope that this is of some help. - Cam
Posted by JohnL on September 7, 2001, at 4:16:51
In reply to Is Real Prozac Better Than Generic? Cam? Anyone?, posted by JohnL on September 6, 2001, at 4:53:25
I would buy into the theory that any perceived difference between generic and authentic is psychological and deceptive in nature, EXCEPT that I didn't know I had been switched from authentic to generic. I was completely confused as to why I was deteriorating. So at least at that point it was similar to a blind test. I am doing much better now back on the authentic Prozac. I wish that part of it had been blind too. Maybe in the future I'll have someone switch the medications on me without my knowledge and give it a complete blind test.
I think it could be possible that there is a difference between generic and authentic simply because of my experience with Modafinil and Adrafinil. I mean, it's not really a good comparison. But my point is that if you look at a molecular diagram of the two, they look practically identical, with only a tiny miniscule difference. Yet they acted on me like totally and dramatically different drugs. Modafinil for me was horrible. Adrafinil was wonderful. And supposedly one of Adrafinil's metabolites is Modafinil, yet I feel none of it. Like I said, it's not a good comparison, but the point is that even just the tiniest difference can make a world of difference, like night and day.
I guess we might never know for sure. All I do know for sure is that I was getting worse on generic, and I am now almost fully recovered from that on authentic. Is it my imagination? Is it a psychological deception? Dunno. I do know I will stay with authentic just to be sure. I was scared to death when I started to deteriorate, and I don't want to go there again. The only thing that had changed was that I had been given generic instead of authentic. At this point I can find no other explanation.
John
Posted by mgrueni on September 7, 2001, at 6:56:24
In reply to Is Real Prozac Better Than Generic? Cam? Anyone?, posted by JohnL on September 6, 2001, at 4:53:25
Hi John,
< I understand that the authentic version and the generic version are molecularly and chemically identical, supposedly. My pharmacist told me the only difference is in the inert fillers. But I am totally completely convinced they are not the same. How they are not the same is a mystery to me. I don't get it. I do not understand. All I know for sure is that I deteriorate on generic fluoxetine, and I thrive on authentic fluoxetine from Ely Lilly. >
As far as I know, fluoxetine is the active ingredient of both, Prozac and the generic. So, as it`s exactly the same substance, there shouldn`t be any difference between the two drugs. Yes, the only difference are the inert fillers. And one being allergic to one of these fillers, is the only reason I know, why it would be reasonable to switch back to the authentic.
But such an allergy is very, very rare. I`ve heard of some people who had to switch from a generic back to the authentic because the generic contained a remarkably higher amount of lactose (as an inert filler) and they had a lactose-intolerance. But, as I said that are very rare individual cases and the reason for them changing medication wasn´t a difference in effectivity but the side effect of diarrhea because of the lactose.< Why and how is generic different from authentic? There IS a difference, no doubt about it. It is NOT my imagination, and it is NOT placebo effect. It is REAL. >
You mentioned that you noticed a difference between Adrafinil and Modafinil in your previous post. There was an interesting discussion about that here on PB a while ago.
Here´s the article, Mainz has posted at that time:http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010327/msgs/57729.html
(I have to admit, I`ve read a bit of it... but it`s very scientific *and* all in english, so it would take me ages to fully understand it, as english is not my mother language)
I can only give you a general information about generics. They usually contain exactly the same active substance as the authentic drug. They are cheaper, because:
* the company which produces the authentic drug has had to invest a lot of money in research.
(It usually takes 10 years of research before a new drug finally gets a permission and can be sold). Of course they add these costs to the selling price of the drug.* the generic-company now profits from the research done by the authentic company. They don`t need to do all the research once again, but simply pay a fee for getting the permission to produce and sell the generic.(Well, in germany that is so, but I suppose it`s the same in the US and Canada)
Therfor they can offer the generic for a lower price.You see, usually the price difference has nothing to do with a lower quality of the generic.
Sorry, that I can´t be of more help on this one, but I really have no idea how there can be a difference between authentic Prozac and the generic fluoxetine, as it *is* the same substance. Nonetheless, I do believe you. If it`s just a psychological reason or an scientific explainable one, what you feel is *real* for you.
Take care,Micha
Posted by jane d on September 7, 2001, at 22:41:43
In reply to Re: Is Real Prozac Better Than Generic? Cam? Anyone?, posted by JohnL on September 7, 2001, at 4:16:51
> I guess we might never know for sure. All I do know for sure is that I was getting worse on generic, and I am now almost fully recovered from that on authentic. Is it my imagination? Is it a psychological deception? Dunno. I do know I will stay with authentic just to be sure. I was scared to death when I started to deteriorate, and I don't want to go there again. The only thing that had changed was that I had been given generic instead of authentic. At this point I can find no other explanation.
> JohnCoincidence? It does happen and can totally wreck your personal drug trials. If you ever do have someone make the switch for you let us know how it works out but I agree with you about risking relapse: I wouldn't want to go there just to satisfy my curiousity.
Jane
Posted by cquincy on October 9, 2001, at 17:00:31
In reply to Re: Is Real Prozac Better Than Generic? » JohnL, posted by jane d on September 7, 2001, at 22:41:43
After one month on generic Prozac, I just today had my prescription changed back to the original -and then did an Internet search to see if there was anyting to back up my gut (head?) feeling.
For what it's worth, my pharmacist told me that it probably was not psychological on my part (nor do I think that the events of September 11 play a part, although I've thought about that). She said that sometimes people who start with the original drug have more trouble adjusting to the generic version, while people who start with generics generally have an easier time. While she noted that the drug is the same, companies use different inert substances that can have an effect. As an example, she said that if the "gel" used for the capsule is different, it could dissolve faster, therefore getting the drug into one's system faster ... but at the same time, wearing off faster. Just an example.
Still, the first week I was on the generic drug, I experienced most of the side effects of Prozac, yet I NEVER experienced any side effects with the original (I've been taking it for four years). So while four weeks may not be enough time for the generic, I went back to the orginal today because I'm convinced there is a difference.
Finally, my pharmacist said I might be able to get some insurance relief if my doctor indicates that I need the "original drug as prescribed."
> > I guess we might never know for sure. All I do know for sure is that I was getting worse on generic, and I am now almost fully recovered from that on authentic. Is it my imagination? Is it a psychological deception? Dunno. I do know I will stay with authentic just to be sure. I was scared to death when I started to deteriorate, and I don't want to go there again. The only thing that had changed was that I had been given generic instead of authentic. At this point I can find no other explanation.
> > John
>
> Coincidence? It does happen and can totally wreck your personal drug trials. If you ever do have someone make the switch for you let us know how it works out but I agree with you about risking relapse: I wouldn't want to go there just to satisfy my curiousity.
> Jane
Posted by Kat26 on October 9, 2001, at 19:25:06
In reply to Re: Is Real Prozac Better Than Generic?, posted by cquincy on October 9, 2001, at 17:00:31
I am still taking the brand name version and don't know what my insurance company will do. Stories like this one just made me stick with it for now because it works so well for me - why risk that?? I am really not sure though. I just thought I'd wait a while and maybe change later when it is not so "new" anymore?
I never had problems changing from tablets to capsules and back (in my home country, Switzerland, they have tablets too, now I am in the US and of course using capsules).Kat
Posted by Roo on October 10, 2001, at 8:49:54
In reply to Re: Is Real Prozac Better Than Generic?, posted by Kat26 on October 9, 2001, at 19:25:06
I wonder if one way of getting around this, insurance
wise, is getting your doctor to prescribe sarafem
instead of prozac (since I'm assuming there's no
generic sarafem yet and it's supposedly the exact
same thing as prozac). I too have wondered if
I'm not getting the same "oomph" out of the generic.
I took the original for YEARS.
Posted by Kat26 on October 10, 2001, at 18:36:30
In reply to Re: Is Real Prozac Better Than Generic?, posted by Roo on October 10, 2001, at 8:49:54
My hope is that, IF it is true that there is a difference, the insurance company will pay for the brand name one after enough people said they feel a difference...
Kat
Posted by SallyR on October 11, 2001, at 16:44:23
In reply to Re: Is Real Prozac Better Than Generic?, posted by Kat26 on October 10, 2001, at 18:36:30
My pharmacist switched me to generic. I did not expect there to be a difference. However, I also noticed a difference after a couple of weeks.
My pdoc told the pharmacy not to substitute the generic version, so I am back on the non generic Prozac. I definitely believe that there is a difference but have no explanation. I don't think that it was psycological. I fully expected the generic to work exactly like the non generic.
This is the end of the thread.
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