Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on September 2, 2001, at 9:53:56
Can anyone help me out on making a decision?
I was supposed to start taking Geodon today, but I'm having second thoughts.
From what I've seen on Psycho-Babble, it looks like Geodon is causing quite a bit more EPS (extrapyramidal symptoms) than Zyprexa. These have included multiple occurrences of abnormal tongue movements, difficulty swallowing, and akathisia. Others have reported tremors, bruxism, and abnormal involuntary movements that may or may not have been EPS, but were treated as such and prompted discontinuation.
What do you think?
For anyone who has experienced EPS with Geodon, have you had prior incidents of EPS with other drugs?
Thanks.
- Scott
For Cam W., Sunnely, or any other egg-heads:I found a study that tested the potential of ziprasidone to reduce the symptoms of TD. It produced little, if any reduction in AIM Scale scores. This was interpreted as indicating that ziprasidone may have a greater potential to produce EPS. This is in contrast to clozapine and olanzapine. The test was performed in an attempt to gain an impression of the EPS potential of ziprasidone that might not become apparent for several more years of use or the results of qualified controlled studies. If ziprasidone really does inhibit the reuptake of serotonin, perhaps this might contribute to its EPS potential.
Posted by Mitch on September 2, 2001, at 10:57:09
In reply to Geodon - Bad Reactions - EPS?, posted by SLS on September 2, 2001, at 9:53:56
> Can anyone help me out on making a decision?
>
> I was supposed to start taking Geodon today, but I'm having second thoughts.
>
> From what I've seen on Psycho-Babble, it looks like Geodon is causing quite a bit more EPS (extrapyramidal symptoms) than Zyprexa. These have included multiple occurrences of abnormal tongue movements, difficulty swallowing, and akathisia. Others have reported tremors, bruxism, and abnormal involuntary movements that may or may not have been EPS, but were treated as such and prompted discontinuation.
>
> What do you think?
>
I would get in touch with your doctor and express those doubts and see what he/she says. People shouldn't be scared away from something that can really help them, and which may cause no problems. There are subsets of folks that appear to be extra sensitive to EPS. People with bipolarII and a history of sensitivities to meds from what I have read is one such group. I have BPII and med sensitivity and had very obvious EPS with Risperdal (I think is a chemical cousin of ziprasidone), however I took Seroquel, another atypical AP and had no EPS. Also, if you have got a history of EPS with other AP's and you don't *have* to take them(for psychosis), they probably should be avoided (just my opinion).
Posted by petter on September 2, 2001, at 11:56:32
In reply to Geodon - Bad Reactions - EPS?, posted by SLS on September 2, 2001, at 9:53:56
> Can anyone help me out on making a decision?
>
> I was supposed to start taking Geodon today, but I'm having second thoughts.
>
> From what I've seen on Psycho-Babble, it looks like Geodon is causing quite a bit more EPS (extrapyramidal symptoms) than Zyprexa. These have included multiple occurrences of abnormal tongue movements, difficulty swallowing, and . Others have reported tremors, bruxism, and abnormal involuntary movements that may or may not have been EPS, but were treated as such and prompted discontinuation.
>
> What do you think?
>
> For anyone who has experienced EPS with Geodon, have you had prior incidents of EPS with other drugs?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
> For Cam W., Sunnely, or any other egg-heads:
>
> I found a study that tested the potential of ziprasidone to reduce the symptoms of TD. It produced little, if any reduction in AIM Scale scores. This was interpreted as indicating that ziprasidone may have a greater potential to produce EPS. This is in contrast to clozapine and olanzapine. The test was performed in an attempt to gain an impression of the EPS potential of ziprasidone that might not become apparent for several more years of use or the results of qualified controlled studies. If ziprasidone really does inhibit the reuptake of serotonin, perhaps this might contribute to its EPS potential.Hi Scott...
I would definately make a trial on Ziprasidone. Most clinical I spoke with has the same thoughts about Ziprasidone. It works more often than Clozapine, and have less side effect. I personally has the same experince. 20 mg at bedtime are greate. It also enhance sex drive and libido. So far it has been greate to Venlaflaxine + Mirazepine.
Don´t hesitate..... You have only benifites to looked forward to, if the drugs fit you.
I know from my own experince, that in depression, on gets very irresolution, and hesitate in with drug to try.
I know many people with refractary depression, who really disliked the Clozapine. Weight gain etc. I think Ziprasidone have a much more potent antidepressant effect than Clozapine.
Scott - Go for it...!!
I hope you can stand my sometimes horrible spelling. I´m sorry, and I hope you don´t mind.
Best Wishes// Petter
Posted by Janelle on September 2, 2001, at 17:36:58
In reply to Geodon - Bad Reactions - EPS?, posted by SLS on September 2, 2001, at 9:53:56
I don't quite understand what the term "Extra Pyrmidal Symptoms" (EPS) means ... is this a "fancy" way of saying side effects? Based on what you wrote about Geodon EPS, this is the impression I get. Thanks for any info on what this EPS means.
Posted by Mitch on September 2, 2001, at 18:44:43
In reply to What are EPS? (I get the acronym but...), posted by Janelle on September 2, 2001, at 17:36:58
> I don't quite understand what the term "Extra Pyrmidal Symptoms" (EPS) means ... is this a "fancy" way of saying side effects? Based on what you wrote about Geodon EPS, this is the impression I get. Thanks for any info on what this EPS means.
Yes they are unwanted side effects. There is a technical explanation for the nerves and muscles involved that will probably make the term "extra-pyramidal" make more sense, but I don't know those answers. Others here probably could explain it easily. I have just had those side effects and *know* what they are. They are basically symptoms that mimic what people with Parkinsons' disease can have. They are a temporary condition in response to a med that blocks dopamine receptors which interrupts dopamine function in the part of your brain that controls voluntary muscle movements, etc. I could list some things that have happened to me from one dose of Haldol, Stelazine, Risperdal, for example. Restlessness, shuffling, unable to sit still. Involuntary muscle movements-my tongue was stuck to the roof of my mouth on Stelazine and I couldn't talk, while my neck had a dystonia (cramplike thing) where it got stiff and my head was stuck on my shoulder and I couldn't budge it. My back muscles have contracted so intensely that I bent backwards and fell down (Haldol)and had to crawl around on the floor for a day (until they wore off). On Risperdal I noticed when I was walking into work that my gait felt "interrupted" like someone was flipping a switch off and on that was controlling my ability to move. EPS wears away after you withdraw the med that set it off. In some cases, the withdrawal of the med will *unmask* or set off EPS (which was my case with Stelazine), then you treat it with Benadryl (i.e.) for a few days and then it goes away. There are *some* people that have lingering symptoms after the med is long gone, and *some* of those people never see any improvement of the symptoms. That is when it is called TD (tardive dyskinesia and tardive dystonia).
Posted by Janelle on September 2, 2001, at 19:15:38
In reply to Re: What are EPS? (I get the acronym but...) » Janelle, posted by Mitch on September 2, 2001, at 18:44:43
Posted by Chris A. on September 2, 2001, at 21:50:06
In reply to Geodon - Bad Reactions - EPS?, posted by SLS on September 2, 2001, at 9:53:56
Dear Scott,
Can you tell me where to find this study? My pDoc and I have discussed this issue and any leads to studies would be helpful.
>
> I found a study that tested the potential of ziprasidone to reduce the symptoms of TD. It produced little, if any reduction in AIM Scale scores. This was interpreted as indicating that ziprasidone may have a greater potential to produce EPS. This is in contrast to clozapine and olanzapine. The test was performed in an attempt to gain an impression of the EPS potential of ziprasidone that might not become apparent for several more years of use or the results of qualified controlled studies. If ziprasidone really does inhibit the reuptake of serotonin, perhaps this might contribute to its EPS potential.I do have very mild TD, so was not willing to take anymore Geodon when the akathasia developed.
Try it. I know at least one person who is much improved on Geodon. The first week of treatment I was encouraged because I wasn't totally zonked, a problem I've had with the other atypical APs.Here's to your health,
Chris A.
Posted by SalArmy4me on September 2, 2001, at 22:00:14
In reply to Re: Geodon - Bad Reactions - EPS? » SLS, posted by Chris A. on September 2, 2001, at 21:50:06
I could e-mail the study to you if I had your e-mail address.
Posted by ChrisK on September 3, 2001, at 6:06:55
In reply to Geodon - Bad Reactions - EPS?, posted by SLS on September 2, 2001, at 9:53:56
Scott,
I've been on Geodon for 4-5 months now and haven't had EPS problems. The only reason I am giving up on it is that it has ruined my sleep compared to Zyprexa.
I would say that you should give the Geodon a try because my understanding is that any possible side effects are temporary.
Chris
Posted by SalArmy4me on September 3, 2001, at 6:57:03
In reply to Re: Geodon - Bad Reactions - EPS?, posted by ChrisK on September 3, 2001, at 6:06:55
Can't you add a sedative or hypnotic? There's plenty of medicines out there that make one sleepy :) (practically every freaking one).
Posted by SLS on September 3, 2001, at 10:23:43
In reply to Re: Geodon - Bad Reactions - EPS?, posted by ChrisK on September 3, 2001, at 6:06:55
Hi Chris and Chris et al.Thanks.
Chris A. - Oops. I'm glad you asked me to go back and find the article. I made a major mistake interpreting what I read. The point the author was making is that the study I cited inferred a LOWER potential for EPS, not higher. What a relief! Sorry.
http://www.pharmj.com/Editorial/20010324/articles/ziprasidone.html
What sorts of facts or experiences are you and your doctor considering in reaching a decision? Does he/she know of any instances of EPS? Thanks.
-----------------------------
ChrisK - Thanks. Did Geodon do anything for depression? What dosage were you taking? I decided to go ahead with the Geodon. (Thanks Petta). I'm starting at 40mg. I took my first 20mg dose last night. I am not experiencing any sedation or hangover. I did so with Zyprexa for the first day or two, but that disappeared quickly. I guess we'll see what happens.
- Scott
Posted by Greg on September 3, 2001, at 10:33:25
In reply to Re: Geodon - Bad Reactions - EPS?, posted by ChrisK on September 3, 2001, at 6:06:55
Chris,
I was glad to read this from you. My psych and I discussed changing me from the Zy to Geodon at my last visit due to my excessive weight gain (45lbs in ten months). We did add Topamax to the mix which he said may help me lose some weight, and I have lost three pounds, and I seem to be sleeping better with it as well. I definitely don't want to mess with a good night's sleep. I think I'll re-think the Geodon.
I hope you're doing well.
Greg
> Scott,
>
> I've been on Geodon for 4-5 months now and haven't had EPS problems. The only reason I am giving up on it is that it has ruined my sleep compared to Zyprexa.
>
> I would say that you should give the Geodon a try because my understanding is that any possible side effects are temporary.
>
> Chris
Posted by Chris A. on September 3, 2001, at 11:31:46
In reply to Re: Geodon - Bad Reactions - EPS?, posted by SLS on September 3, 2001, at 10:23:43
Scott,
Thanks for the citation and the better news about EPS.
My pDoc wasn't around when I delveloped the akathasia, so wants to keep in in the wings to try again if I really need an AP. One of his partners had instructed me to discontinue it.
I'm having a good moment and wish for you the same.Blessings,
Chris A.
Posted by petter on September 3, 2001, at 12:54:10
In reply to Re: Geodon - Bad Reactions - EPS?, posted by SLS on September 3, 2001, at 10:23:43
>
> Hi Chris and Chris et al.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Chris A. - Oops. I'm glad you asked me to go back and find the article. I made a major mistake interpreting what I read. The point the author was making is that the study I cited inferred a LOWER potential for EPS, not higher. What a relief! Sorry.
>
> http://www.pharmj.com/Editorial/20010324/articles/ziprasidone.html
>
> What sorts of facts or experiences are you and your doctor considering in reaching a decision? Does he/she know of any instances of EPS? Thanks.
>
>
> -----------------------------
>
>
> ChrisK - Thanks. Did Geodon do anything for depression? What dosage were you taking? I decided to go ahead with the Geodon. (Thanks Petta). I'm starting at 40mg. I took my first 20mg dose last night. I am not experiencing any sedation or hangover. I did so with Zyprexa for the first day or two, but that disappeared quickly. I guess we'll see what happens.
>
>
> - ScottHi Scott...
Very glad to hear you started the Ziprasidone. But please don´t increase the dosage to fast. The clinical who I spoke with are specialist in refractary depression. He´s experince is that Ziprasidone as an add, most people only need 20-30mg. I´m myself tolerated in general very high dosage in most meds. But I have learned after these years to start slow. Don´t be to hurry increasing dosage. It´s easy to get side efect and than stoped the drug, without given it an fair trial.
I hope you don´t mind..
Let me know of your progress..
Best Wishes, and good luck
Petter
Posted by ChrisK on September 3, 2001, at 23:56:52
In reply to Re: Geodon - Bad Reactions - EPS? » ChrisK, posted by Greg on September 3, 2001, at 10:33:25
I did fine on both Zyprexa and Geodon as far as the racing/obsessive thoughts. When I started Zy a couple of years ago I was very suicidal and it helped relieve a lot of that obsession. I really didn't notice a change in my thought patterns when I switched to Geodon but I have found problems with my sleep patterns. I see my pdoc today and I will discuss with him the problems I'm having with Geodon. I don't think that it will effect the way I'm dealing with my depression to go back to ZY once again.
I hope things work out for you and Scott.
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