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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by noah4321 on August 28, 2001, at 13:49:37
While I was on paxil, I was abusing two drugs: ephedrine and Sudafed. They made me hyper and eventually I could not sleep. After four days my parents sent me to the doctor and he gave me risperdal. He said it was schizophrenia. But the symptoms I had were from the drugs I was using. When I study schizophrenia I find that I don't have hallucinations or anything like that. However I can't seem to get off risperdal. When I try to get off, I get anxious and I feel like I am out of control.
Do I have schizophrenia or something else?
Posted by stjames on August 28, 2001, at 13:59:26
In reply to do I have schizophrenia?, posted by noah4321 on August 28, 2001, at 13:49:37
Noah,
Several people on this list told you to tell your
doctor about the drugs you were using and let him/her decide what condition you have. Is there any reason why you cannot do that ?james
Posted by Else on August 31, 2001, at 21:07:00
In reply to do I have schizophrenia?, posted by noah4321 on August 28, 2001, at 13:49:37
> While I was on paxil, I was abusing two drugs: ephedrine and Sudafed. They made me hyper and eventually I could not sleep. After four days my parents sent me to the doctor and he gave me risperdal. He said it was schizophrenia. But the symptoms I had were from the drugs I was using. When I study schizophrenia I find that I don't have hallucinations or anything like that. However I can't seem to get off risperdal. When I try to get off, I get anxious and I feel like I
am out of control.
>
> Do I have schizophrenia or something else?My brother was put on Risperdal for being hyper. He did not have either hallucinations or delusions but was "only" rather aggressive and obnoxious. Given that Risperdal also acts as an SSRI is some ways, it would make sense that your anxiety would increase as you try to go off the drug. However, if you have not shown any signs of psychosis, Risperdal is probably not the best drug for you. SSRIs might do the same job without the sedation. You may also be suffering from withdrawal symptoms from the Paxil if you did indeed go off it. Some people here will disagree with me but I believe antipsychotics are best left to treat psychosis, not anxiety or depression. If you have not had any "true" psychotic symptom like a hallucination or a delusion, Risperdal is probably not the best med for you. You should discuss this with your doctor, I guess. But if you find Risperdal helps, you might want to stick with it psychosis or not.
Posted by Andre Allard on August 31, 2001, at 23:01:19
In reply to do I have schizophrenia?, posted by noah4321 on August 28, 2001, at 13:49:37
It is unlikely that you have schizophrenia unless it runs in your family.
I have abused different drugs while on antidepressants including ephidrine. Sometimes if I over did it with the drugs I would disasociate or become paronoid.
With regards to Else's comment about risperdal being acceptable only for the treatment of shizophrenia and that it is a bad choice of medication for you is a completly uninformed opinion. Just about every pdoc would disagree with Else.
The atypical antipsychotics have been effective in just about every mental disorder. The atypicals help with sleep, anxiety, cognitive distortions, intrusive thoughts, obsessions, paranioa, hallucinations, rage, anger, depression, mania and the list goes on.
Besides the weight gain and somnolance experienced with the aytipicals, I think, along with the majoridy of the psychiatric community, that they are very helpful in treating mental illness.
Good luck?
Please excuse my spelling.
Posted by Else on September 1, 2001, at 0:00:24
In reply to Re: do I have schizophrenia?, posted by Andre Allard on August 31, 2001, at 23:01:19
> It is unlikely that you have schizophrenia unless it runs in your family.
>
> I have abused different drugs while on antidepressants including ephidrine. Sometimes if I over did it with the drugs I would disasociate or become paronoid.
>
> With regards to Else's comment about risperdal being acceptable only for the treatment of shizophrenia and that it is a bad choice of medication for you is a completly uninformed opinion. Just about every pdoc would disagree with Else.
>
> The atypical antipsychotics have been effective in just about every mental disorder. The atypicals help with sleep, anxiety, cognitive distortions, intrusive thoughts, obsessions, paranioa, hallucinations, rage, anger, depression, mania and the list goes on.
>
> Besides the weight gain and somnolance experienced with the aytipicals, I think, along with the majoridy of the psychiatric community, that they are very helpful in treating mental illness.
>
> Good luck?
>
> Please excuse my spelling.That is not what I said. I said I *personally* thought antipsychotics were innapropriate for non-psychotic conditions, if I recall correctly. I do have my own reasons for believing this. However, I did mention at the end of my post that IF Risperdal worked better for him there was no reason he should drop it.
Of course, anti-psychotics work for everything. They shut you down (just like when windows crashes and you have to do alt-ctrl-del, well that's what they do). There are, however, subtler methods that do not cause irreversable neurological disorders (like tardive dyskinesia, for instance) that should be tried FIRST if psychosis is not clearly present. And as far as the psychiatric community goes, please, tell me how many pdocs you know take Risperdal or Zyprexa? I would think Valium is more popular among them but I could be wrong. Please read what I write before you dismiss it. I just re-read my post and I used the word "psychosis" not "schizophrenia" and please let me speak to one of these specialists who would disagree with me. I'm curious to know why.
Posted by Andre Allard on September 1, 2001, at 1:48:41
In reply to Re: do I have schizophrenia? » Andre Allard, posted by Else on September 1, 2001, at 0:00:24
> That is not what I said. I said I *personally* thought antipsychotics were innapropriate for non-psychotic conditions, if I recall correctly. I do have my own reasons for believing this.
What reasons are these, I am curious.
> Of course, anti-psychotics work for everything. They shut you down (just like when windows crashes and you have to do alt-ctrl-del, well that's what they do).
I am not sure what you mean. If you are saying that the atypicals blunt emotions I would have to agree. BUT, you have to remember that emotions experienced with mental disorders are to the extreme and that any blunting of emotions can only help - to an extent. I am talking about minimal dosages, the dosages that are prescribed to the disorders out side of schizophrenia and pychosis.
There are, however, subtler methods that do not cause irreversable neurological disorders (like tardive dyskinesia, for instance) that should be tried FIRST if psychosis is not clearly present.
Irreversable neurological disorders are not commonly seen with the atypicals. If you have been referring to the older, dirty antipsychotics then I would have to agree with everything you have mentioned.
And as far as the psychiatric community goes, please, tell me how many pdocs you know take Risperdal or Zyprexa?
I did not refer to pdocs taking any form of medication. What are you talking about?
I would think Valium is more popular among them but I could be wrong.
You are wrong. Valium is a dirty benzodiazepine (they all are) that is used short term for insomnia and anxiety.
Please read what I write before you dismiss it. I just re-read my post and I used the word "psychosis" not "schizophrenia" and please let me speak to one of these specialists who would disagree with me. I'm curious to know why.
The next time you are speaking with your pdoc you can ask them yourself. They will tell you the same thing. You are curious why. Well, the atypicals (not the first generation antipsychotics) are very broad spectrum and are used routinely in all mental disorders.
If I seem a little to forward I apologise. I am very honest, that's all, but, if you got some more noise - BRING IT! I am starting to have fun!
Posted by Rosa on September 1, 2001, at 5:37:45
In reply to do I have schizophrenia?, posted by noah4321 on August 28, 2001, at 13:49:37
Are you sure you need a sedative or do you need an antidepressant?
I took Valium for years only to find out that what I needed was an antidepressant. The good thing about antidepressants is that they are not addictive.
I was able to get off Valium by taking Lithium. It is wise to stop drinking alcohol at the same time.
Rosa
> While I was on paxil, I was abusing two drugs: ephedrine and Sudafed. They made me hyper and eventually I could not sleep. After four days my parents sent me to the doctor and he gave me risperdal. He said it was schizophrenia. But the symptoms I had were from the drugs I was using. When I study schizophrenia I find that I don't have hallucinations or anything like that. However I can't seem to get off risperdal. When I try to get off, I get anxious and I feel like I am out of control.
>
> Do I have schizophrenia or something else?
Posted by Else on September 4, 2001, at 19:13:59
In reply to Re: do I have schizophrenia?, posted by Andre Allard on September 1, 2001, at 1:48:41
> > That is not what I said. I said I *personally* thought antipsychotics were innapropriate for non-psychotic conditions, if I recall correctly. I do have my own reasons for believing this.
>
> What reasons are these, I am curious.
My brother who became utterly weird and expressionless on a relatively low dose of Risperdal (1mg/die). He looked like a completely different person and I do want to stress that he was never diagnosed as having a psychotic disorder and that he has returned to normal since discontinuing meaning that his weirdness was drug induced. By weirdness I mean that he was unlike himself in a most unpleasant way, lifeless, malleable, boring. Others may react differently but other psychiatric drugs like ADs and tranquilizers don't usually affect personnality to such a severe extent.
>
> > Of course, anti-psychotics work for everything. They shut you down (just like when windows crashes and you have to do alt-ctrl-del, well that's what they do).
>
> I am not sure what you mean. If you are saying that the atypicals blunt emotions I would have to agree. BUT, you have to remember that emotions experienced with mental disorders are to the extreme and that any blunting of emotions can only help - to an extent. I am talking about minimal dosages, the dosages that are prescribed to the disorders out side of schizophrenia and pychosis.
>
> There are, however, subtler methods that do not cause irreversable neurological disorders (like tardive dyskinesia, for instance) that should be tried FIRST if psychosis is not clearly present.
>
> Irreversable neurological disorders are not commonly seen with the atypicals. If you have been referring to the older, dirty antipsychotics then I would have to agree with everything you have mentioned.
>
> And as far as the psychiatric community goes, please, tell me how many pdocs you know take Risperdal or Zyprexa?
>
> I did not refer to pdocs taking any form of medication. What are you talking about?I didn't mean to implie that you had said that.Just that I don't think doctors would choose atypical APs over tranquilizers for anxiety. Just on the basis that tranquilizers like Valium cause fewer side effects.
> I would think Valium is more popular among them but I could be wrong.
>
> You are wrong. Valium is a dirty benzodiazepine (they all are) that is used short term for insomnia and anxiety.I am not. I take Klonopin, and I have taken Valium in the past. I would pick any benzo over say, an SSRI, anyday. They are probably not advisable for depression but for anxiety I find they get the work done much more cleanly than any other drug I've tried (Prozac, Zoloft, Effexor, Depakote and Klonopin). Why do you say benzos are dirty ? I have read, on the contrary, (in a toxicology textbook) that benzos were some of the least toxic psychotropic drugs availlable. Now if you mean tolerance and dependance, that you should say tolerance and dependance but that's not the same as toxicity. I personnally don't mind. Dependance is of little concern if you are going to take these drugs for a prolonged period of time as far as I am concerned. Quality of life is more important to me. And beside, ADs cause withdrawal symptoms too. I don't have any information on APs but I would tend to think they are no different because they do partially block serotonin re-uptake as far as I know.
> Please read what I write before you dismiss it. I just re-read my post and I used the word "psychosis" not "schizophrenia" and please let me speak to one of these specialists who would disagree with me. I'm curious to know why.
>
> The next time you are speaking with your pdoc you can ask them yourself. They will tell you the same thing. You are curious why. Well, the atypicals (not the first generation antipsychotics) are very broad spectrum and are used routinely in all mental disorders.
My doc suggested I take Seroquel a few months ago, to replace Effexor for anxiety just after I had complained I hated the sense of numbness ADs made me feel. I refuse. Now I am on Klonopin and it is the most effective drug I have taken so far. I am not worried about withdrawal upon discontinuation. I did go through lorazepam withdrawal after being hopitalized, when my doctor decided I should discontinue abruptly from a 6mg/day dose. As nasty as that was, I survived and and I would rather go through a couple of nasty weeks or even months of withdrawal than feel shitty all the time on Zoloft. I am not planning on discontinuing anyway.
> If I seem a little to forward I apologise. I am very honest, that's all, but, if you got some more noise - BRING IT! I am starting to have fun!I am not bothered that you are too forward, just that you misquoted me. I didn't say AP were good only for schizophrenia. This trend of prescribing APs for everything is something I oppose because I see what these drugs have done to friends of mine and a member of my familly. Also, although TD may not be as likely with newer APs as it was with older ones, it is still a possibility. I was taking Wellbutrin (not an AP, I know) and I gave it up when I read it could cause EPS and began to give me neck twitches. I don't trust drugs that have major neurological side-effects. You could argue that benzos do since discontinuing them may produce convulsions but these drugs have been in use for what, almost forty years now? If the worst that can happen is addiction that I'm not too worried, I can certainly deal with that. I'm way to much aof a hypochondriac to take my chances with APs, even atypical ones. But risks not withstanding, I would still avoid them because they ressemble SSRIs a little too much for my own taste (with the sexual dysfunction and all).
P.S. I am a strong supporter of the rationnal use of benzos and believe they have been devilized and you better come up with something GOOD if you want to convince me otherwise.No hard feelings.
Posted by Willow on September 4, 2001, at 22:54:54
In reply to Re: do I have schizophrenia? » Andre Allard, posted by Else on September 4, 2001, at 19:13:59
*By weirdness I mean that he was unlike himself in a most unpleasant way, lifeless, malleable, boring. Others may react differently but other psychiatric drugs like ADs and tranquilizers don't usually affect personnality to such a severe extent.
I have to disagree on the point that other ADs don't affect personality severely. I've tried many differnt ADs the older and new ones and each time I discontinued because of family and friends didn't like the way I behaved on them. I was either flat or worse volatile. Drugged!
This is the end of the thread.
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